Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Otis Redding/archive5

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

This candidate was not promoted by GrahamColm 10:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Otis Redding[edit]

Nominator(s): Tomcat (7) 12:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The excellent copyedits by User:Lecen and the subsequent helpful comments at the article's talk page helped shaping the article into a comprehensive and an interesting page. Redding is a definite individual in soul music, being inofficially crowned a King of that genre. His career and life were very brief, but Otis Redding comprehensively offers all notable information about the perfomer. It begins with a description of how he was born and raised into a poor family in a poor region (the "Hell's View), then the sudden success and finally the sudden death. My respect for everyone who worked on it. Regards. Tomcat (7) 12:50, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Binksternet review

My review is very tough because 1) the nominator was warned for trivial renoms back in December and then again in January [2][3], 2) the same nominator started the previous four unsuccessful FACs, 3) the nominator is competing at the WikiCup, and 4) the article has failed many times before, especially on writing style. It really needed a complete rewrite, top to bottom, which it did not get. Somebody other than Tomcat7 should start over with it.

Per your comment it seems that you have something against me.--Tomcat (7) 20:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, I don't understand why your comments should be tough in this case. I don't find them tough, but rather randomly chosen. Next, there are no restrictions on how many times a nomination for one particular article is created. There is no reason to name a fun competition. I pointed out above that it received excellent copyedits. Even twice. So you want to exclude me? For what reasons?--Tomcat (7) 21:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The "fun" competition apparently creates in you a pressure to push sub-par articles through GAN and FAC. That is why I bring it up.
What this article needs is "engaging, even brilliant" prose, which it has never had, and will not get until someone takes it all the way down to barebones to build it back up. Binksternet (talk) 22:40, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I said at Talk:Otis Redding/GA1 that Redding was an exciting performer with sensual and sexual overtones, per Bill Graham. Nobody has yet figured out how to put that sufficiently into the article. Around 1990, more or less, Graham said "By far, Otis Redding was the single most extraordinary talent I had ever seen. There was no comparison. Then or now." Unusually, Graham flew to Atlanta then drove to Memphis to convince Redding to come to San Francisco to play the Fillmore. More Graham: "Six foot three, a black Adonis. He moved like a serpent. A panther stalking his prey... Beautiful and shining, black, sweaty, sensuous, and passionate." And the kicker, while discussing Jimi Hendrix: "It has always amazed me that no rock historian has ever dealt with the most significant aspect of who Jimi Hendrix was. After Otis Redding, he was the first black man in the history of this country who caused the mass of white females in the audience to disregard his race and want his body. They wanted to fuck him as a unit. After Otis, he was the first black sex symbol in White America."[4]

I do not support adding such sensationalist phrases. If there is a good reason, please name one.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm including the Graham quotes to give an idea of what Graham thought, not to suggest wording for the article. I'm saying that the article fails to give the reader an idea of how viscerally exciting it was to watch Redding perform live. Binksternet (talk) 22:42, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ralph J. Gleason, SF music critic, said that Redding was scheduled to make a TV special for National Educational Television, to be filmed on December 26, 1967.[5]

I will look into that, I think I have heard about that somewhere and decided leaving it out.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there nothing about the San Francisco Bay which is what the song refers to?

Because the article is about Otis Redding, not the song. --Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's The Fillmore or Fillmore Auditorium, not Fillmore Theatre.

Changed.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What "fadeout rap"? Unclear what is being discussed.

It is surrounded by quotation marks as it is a quote from that source.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that the reader is not told what that unfamiliar term means. Binksternet (talk) 22:43, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It should be made clear that "Moohah" is the nickname of WDIA disk jockey A.C. Williams. His mother did not name him that.

I added his initials.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The word "correctly" was identified as weaselly by the automatic peer review tool.

Then he is an idiot.--Tomcat (7) 21:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Two dead links out of 60.

I fixed one, the other one will need to be replaced.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the other one.--Tomcat (7) 21:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Very awkward wording regarding the fact that Redding was popular with a mostly black audience, that he wanted to cross over and attract the larger white audience, which led to the Whisky-A-Go-Go in Los Angeles being selected as a venue. The time frame should be clear: three days in April 1966 including April 8.[6] The fact should be stated that an album was later released of this 40-minute set: In Person at the Whisky a Go Go. "Afro-Americans"? Dang.

There was another album, not just that one, and it is already mentioned below. I am not sure about that source, seems to be not very reliable. For example they wrote Whiskey instead of Whisky. Not trustworthy imho.--Tomcat (7) 20:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the awkward wording:
Since Afro-Americans still formed the majority of fans, Redding chose to perform at Whisky a Go Go on the Sunset Strip in Los Angeles. Redding was one of the first soul artists to perform in the western United States. His performance received critical acclaim, including positive press in the Los Angeles Times and he penetrated mainstream popular culture.

This is very clunky prose, and it completely fails to get the reader excited about one of Redding's most important gigs, a career milestone. Binksternet (talk) 22:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Throughout 1966 Redding's backing band was his own guys, but it is not mentioned. They perform on the Whisky a Go Go date and at the Fillmore in December. The next year, Redding went to Europe with Booker T. and the M.G.'s but this is not mentioned.

Can you clarify what do you exactly mean? What guys do you mean?--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Still have not incorporated enough of the story about writing "Dock of the Bay" in Sausalito. Music critic Joel Selvin wrote about the composition. Selvin's not referenced in the article yet. I think the writing of the song should come chronologically at the right place, in August 1967 while Redding is still in Northern California working an engagement at San Francisco's Basin Street West following the Monterey Pop gig, not after discussing the Stax recording session.

It seems that particularly that song you always identify as his only major achivement. This is simply not correct. Otis Redding is the brief, but comprehensive biography about Otis Redding, not about a song.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was split from the death section as it had no impact on his death. --Tomcat (7) 21:11, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why are there money figures in British pounds?

I removed the pounds. They were included in Brown, I think.--Tomcat (7) 20:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do not support this article for FA. Binksternet (talk) 19:37, 26 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: Tomcat7. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate's comment - As this nomination has received no further reviews for several weeks, it looks unlikely that a consensus for promotion will be reached on this occasion. I have decided to archive this FAC.

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Graham Colm (talk) 21:19, 24 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.