Talk:Kiryat Luza

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origin of the name[edit]

There was a city near here called Luzah in the Hellenistic period. Presumably that is the origin of the name, but I don't find a source saying that. Can anyone? Zero^talk 14:36, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: thought you might be interested in the discussion below. Doug Weller talk 16:33, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source for the name?[edit]

Is there a source for this name? Google Maps and other geolocation apps list the Samaritan village name as "Mount Gerizim". Their postal address in their website says the same (https://samaritanmuseum.com/contact-us/). Also, it is curious that the official name of the village would be Kiryat something, Kiryat meaning "village" in Hebrew, as the Samaritans in Mount Gerizim speak Arabic, not Hebrew. Dan Palraz (talk) 20:12, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be a village on Mount Gerizim.[1][2][3]in Area B. Doug Weller talk 16:31, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's a puzzle. On the Israeli government mapping site, I can only find "Samaritan neighborhood". The Arabic wiki says "Luza, which Israelis call Kiryat Luza". There should be a listing from the Palestinian Bureau of Statistics. Zero^talk 03:18, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just to make it more confusing, this 2021 NYT article says "Al Tor, a five-street village, known as Kiryat Luza in Hebrew". (Note that Jabal al Tur is the Arabic name for Mount Gerizim.) Zero^talk 03:36, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pummer, Reinhard (2016). The Samaritans: A Profile. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing. ISBN 978-0-802-86768-1. p.166 "The settlement on Mt.Gerizim is called Kiryat Luza after the ancient appellation “Luz,” or “Luza” according to the Samaritans, the place where Jacob had the dream of a ladder extending from earth to heaven, and where God revealed himself to him. Jacob called the place “House of God” (“Bethel” in Hebrew; Gen. 28:19; 35:6; cf. 48:3). Equating Luza with the mountain, the Samaritans now refer to Mt. Gerizim with the double designation “Mount Gerizim-Bethel.” and pp111-112 "Today, the Samaritans have one synagogue on Mt. Gerizim, two synagogues in Ḥolon, and one in Nablus. The present building of the synagogue on Mt. Gerizim dates from 1964. Nablus had a very old synagogue, located in the west of the city in the Samaritan neighborhood, next to the Yasminah neighborhood, which was damaged in the strong earthquake (magnitude 6.2) of July 1927.However, the Samaritans continued to worship in it, and only in 1947 was it partially repaired. But then a new synagogue was built further to the west which was used until 1998, when the Samaritans of Nablus moved to Kiryat Luza, the Samaritan settlement on Mt. Gerizim (Fig. 19)......

Selfstudier (talk) 13:09, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks, Selfstudier and Douglas, I can see the name is used in publications, but for a long time I have been trying to find any official source for it and have found none. I have been to the Samaritan village and there was not a single sign on the roads, on the way to it, before it or on the village itself with the name "Kiryat Luza" or "Luza". As talk has mentioned, it is not the official name used by Israeli authorities either (and I am pretty sure not about Palestinian authorities, who have official civil control over it, it being in Area B). And again, I have literally asked the Samaritans what the name of the "town" I was at was, if I wanted for example to send them a letter, and they told me it should be sent to "Gerizim - the Samaritans", or something to that effect, and it would reach them. I am also afraid of how many of the recent publications that have recently used the name were not in fact influenced by Wikipedia, which didn't cite any sources to begin with... Dan Palraz (talk) 11:50, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This 2017 book from the Palestine Bureau of Statistics has a detailed locality list, but this site doesn't seem to be there. An explanation could be that it belongs to the Nablus municipality. There is Khallet al Louza but that's in the Bethlehem Governate. Zero^talk 12:48, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So, if we have established that it is not the official name used by the Israeli government, nor by the Palestinian government, nor by the village itself, nor by Google Maps and other geolocating services, I guess we can agree that the article is not properly named? The question remains, though: what should the name of the article be? Dan Palraz (talk) 07:50, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily, it may still be commonname even if not official, here is another source https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-05-10/ty-article-magazine/.premium/for-ancient-samaritan-community-a-new-test-of-loyalty/0000017f-f677-d5bd-a17f-f67f4e000000

"Nowadays, the community is divided evenly between the Palestinian village of Kiryat Luza and the Neveh Pinhas neighborhood in Holon"

"Kiryat Luza is also fairly unique for being split between the three administrative areas drawn up when the Oslo Accords were signed between Israel and the PA in 1993: Area A (under full Palestinian security and civil control); Area B (Palestinian civil control and joint security control); and Area C (full Israeli security and civil control). “As Samaritans, we wake up in Area B, worship at the Mount in Area C, and go to work in Area A,” says Samaritan scholar Benyamim Tsedaka." Selfstudier (talk) 10:19, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

this book as Zero mentioned above re NYT says The Israelis call it Kiryat Luza and the Palestinians al-Tor and Samaritans al-Loz, the residents have both Palestinian and Israeli identity papers. Selfstudier (talk) 12:00, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The residents speak Arabic amongst themselves, though. If the source is correct, I would go with the name used by the Samaritans. Or whatever the official name is, in either Israeli or Palestinian records. Just not convinced that we can speak of "Kiryat Luza" being "common usage" because it appears in one or two international articles each year, since I am pretty sure they got the name from Wikipedia, making it all a circular reference not reflected on any real signs, real-life usage, postal addresses, anything...Dan Palraz (talk) 23:03, 4 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]