Talk:KFC/Archive 7

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KFC in Zambia

KFC came to Zambia in mid 2011 ?? By the end of 2011, there were 4 outlets! All outlets are in shopping malls in the capital city, Lusaka !! The first was in the Manda Hill Mall, the first "proper" South African-inspired mall in Zambia & were followed in quick succession, in 3 newer malls in the last quarter of 2011, Freedom Way Southgate Mall, Levy Mall & finally, the Makeni Mall !! The unique feature, at least at the Manda Hill Mall, is the availability of a Mash substitute, white cornmeal/mealie/polenta mash, locally called "nshima" !!("ugali"in E.Afica/"pap" in South Africa)

On verification, these facts should be added to –the main article & the map amended !!

Stella (02/01/12) Bonafides: Lusaka resident & KFC consumer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.223.119.129 (talk) 12:21, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Finger Lickin' Good

No mention in the article. nuff said.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 01:55, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

PFK

Is it notable that in Quebec, Canada, KFC is known as PFK ("Poulet frit Kentucky")? This is an exception to France and other Francophone countries, where the international corporate brand "KFC" prevails. See http://www.kfc.ca/home/fr/. 71.67.98.1 (talk) 01:31, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

What Happened?

Somebody has removed a massive amount of detail from the page, like menu items. I was going to revert their edits but maybe they're correct in what they've done.--Mjs1991 (talk) 04:06, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

A lot of that info was unsourced; and the menu items come right up against WP:UNDUE and WP:TRIVIA. We're not here to duplicate their website. We should discuss their menu items in general, and discuss major launches that have gotten reliable coverage (for example, their repeated failures to launch non-fried chicken would probably be fine if sourceable, as would the faux outcry over the Double Down). Qwyrxian (talk) 07:16, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Yup, it was me. Cite WP:UNDUE and WP:TRIVIA. A lot of that stuff was just company promotional stuff, or trivia, or unsourced. It's really not that important what they sold in April 2006 across every individual country in the world. Also the menu detail was a little too US-centric. I have done quite a lot of tidying up in the last 24 hours on that page, menu item removal being the most conspicuous.Farrtj (talk) 20:23, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Advertising and logos

I would like to sugesst you look at the US Patent and Trademark office for information on its logos and trademarks. The TESS system has quite a large database of this stuff. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:35, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:KFC/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 08:05, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

WP:LEAD
Perhaps, although it's by no means a given that it should be in there. My only problem is I don't know where to put such information. It doesn't seem to relate to any of the existing paragraphs. Farrtj (talk) 14:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay done. Farrtj (talk) 14:52, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
  • What does As of 2011 mean? The end of financial year 2011-2012 or the end of December 2011? Regards, theTigerKing  16:22, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Well I think that's irrelevant. The company's given statistic of 17,000 is pretty vague to begin with. If it were an exact figure then it would be worth giving an exact date, but as it isn't, there isn't much point. Farrtj (talk) 17:39, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
I never asked the exact figures. I just asked what does these two words mean- "As of". Does this mean end of financial year 2011-2012 or the end of month of December 2011.Regards, theTigerKing  18:40, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Regardless, it's such a broad and approximate figure that it's not worth specifying either. Farrtj (talk) 18:47, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Which figures are you talking about? I am asking about the the year- whether it means January 2011 to December 2011 or April 2011-March 2012? That's it! I just can't get what you are referring to? I am not asking about the figure 17000 at all.Regards, theTigerKing  19:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC) Done
  • Comma mark needed after the text 'As a Yum! subsidiary' Regards, theTigerKing  16:25, 10 July 2012 (UTC)  Done
History
Um I'm not sure about this one. Space for it on the Harland Sanders page, but any more than a passing reference is divulging from the topic of the article, which is the company that Sanders founded called KFC, not the man himself, nor his nephew. Farrtj (talk) 21:57, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't know the whole story, but presumed that there was some falling out with KFC worth noting here. Have you looked into the story?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Nah, Sanders was working for KFC all of his life. I think his daughter ran all of the KFC franchises until her retirement. It warrants no more than a sentence at best, but I don't think it warrants any mention. It belongs on the Harland Sanders page perhaps. Farrtj (talk) 12:37, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
You raise another issue. The daughter has to be discussed in the article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I can't find reference for this. Maybe she had nothing to do with the company. Farrtj (talk) 04:07, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
I am apt to fail for lack of breadth without an explanation of Lee's. This is a former prominent employee who left to start a major competitor. I think it is inexcusable not to explain this. This is not a tech company with dozens of employees who left to start companies along the way.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
This is currently unsourced.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Done
Clarify that "The investment group changed the restaurant's format " refers to the KFC investment group and not the Lee's investment group.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:14, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Done
Did you explain the point at which Dave Thomas left to found Wendy's.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC) Done
It is not only unexplained, but also it is unsourced.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:05, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Done
The article isn't about Dave Thomas. And no one has a clue who he is outside of the USA, so I don't want to dedicate too much space to him. Yes he introduced a few changes to the company. He already takes up enough space. Also, there's no mystery about why Thomas left KFC, and I think the fact that he went on to found Wendy's is explanation enough: he felt he could do just as well by himself.Farrtj (talk) 03:53, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Please try to source the fact that he left the company.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:38, 30 June 2012 (UTC) Done
Operations
I don't know what a line break is. Farrtj (talk) 14:42, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
What is going on after "According to Bloomberg Businessweek in 2012, "?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:58, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
It's a block quote. It quickly summarises the current KFC situation. Farrtj (talk) 12:45, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Is there any way to rearrange the section so that it is not so confusing (at high resolution viewing).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't know. Do you have something in mind. I've looked through the quote again, I feel that it's all worth keeping personally. Farrtj (talk) 18:03, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes the quote is worth keeping.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:31, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Nope. I read the Yum Annual Report and they don't break down sales by KFC/Pizza Hut/Taco Bell. Farrtj (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
There must be analysts who estimate this detail.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Well I found a guesstimate and went with it. Farrtj (talk) 04:22, 29 June 2012 (UTC)  Done
Products
  • Can you describe when other things (other than popcorn chicken) were added to the menu. I am particularly fond of the extra crispy option.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Well Original Recipe is in the history, and before I read this I actually added the Extra Crispy date to the history section. Also I don't want to give too much prominence to products such as Extra Crispy which appear to only be available in the American market. Farrtj (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't want to repeat myself as the introduction of the bucket meal, original recipe, extra crispy, kentucky grilled chicken, the chicken pot pie, marinated chicken and the snacker are already described in the history. Popcorn's introduction is listed under products. I can't find details on when the Zinger was introduced. Farrtj (talk) 04:16, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Do you think it makes sense to have a products section when you talk about all the products in another section?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps not. I may merge the information with Operations and History. I reckon it might be sensible to keep it there as people may want to add product information at a later stage. Farrtj (talk) 07:01, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Advertising
International operations
Controversy
  • the subsections are often smaller than is desirable. You should either beef them up or restructure the subsections.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Done
Beefed up the alleged racism subsection. Farrtj (talk) 08:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't know what to regarding the "Trademark disputes" subsection. It can't be beefed up without adding trivia to it, and it can't be merged under one of the existing subsections. Also I'm not sure if I can delete it, as it was a pretty major news story in the UK, covered by all of the major broadsheets. Farrtj (talk) 05:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Has KFC trademarked "Finger Lickin Good"?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC) Done
Added this to the article: Answer: they did but it's expired. Although I'd speculate that they'd probably have some residual rights to the slogan, given their long association with it. But that's just my speculation. Farrtj (talk) 08:33, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
You also need to comment on the logo changes over the years. You have content in WP:CAPTIONs that is not explained in the text. Retitle this section logos and trademarks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC)  Done

Also, merged Logos and trademarks under advertising, International Operations under Operations, and merged Products with Operations and History. Farrtj (talk) 07:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Health
Salmonella poisoning
  • What is a "Twister wrap" Done
Images
I'm not sure what the issue is here. Farrtj (talk) 05:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:CAPTION#Wording.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:47, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Ah ok, done  Done
Red XNThink about which things are complete sentences and which are not. Use periods accordingly.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:12, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I believe that's sorted now. Farrtj (talk) 14:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Are any of the CAPTIONs full sentences?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:50, 5 July 2012 (UTC) Done
References
Working on it. Farrtj (talk) 09
04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

In the spirit of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/GAN backlog elimination drives/June-July 2012, I am putting this on hold. I really feel that a lot of content is missing, but will reevaluate it after 7 days.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:57, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, in the spirit of that drive I'd really like to work on this to quickly get it through to GA status. Farrtj (talk) 07:41, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Infobox
  • Please provide the number of locations in the infobox.
I don't know how to add that criteria to the infobox template. Farrtj (talk) 15:52, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
You could consider the infobox used in Mc Donalds.theTigerKing 16:00, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay, hunky dory. Farrtj (talk) 16:05, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Please provide the reference for it in the information box itself. Also, mention the year. Regards, theTigerKing  16:31, 10 July 2012 (UTC)  Done
  • Please provide the key products in the infobox.
ok, done Farrtj (talk) 15:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)  Done
  • Please correct the information mentioned in the infobox. The revenues of the subsidiary(KFC) can never exceed that of the parent company(Yum). Compare the infoboxes of the two. Regards, theTigerKing  16:39, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Regards,theTigerKing 15:25, 10 July 2012 (UTC)  Done

  • Please remove the words approx. from the box. Has it been mentioned in the document? What is the purpose of having it in the infobox? Aren't the figures for revenues in the references mentioned in USD? Regards, theTigerKing  15:10, 11 July 2012 (UTC)  Done
  • Make the text "headquarters" with "Operational Headquarters" and the text "incorporation" with "Incorporation" Regards, theTigerKing  15:10, 11 July 2012 (UTC)  Done
Blockquotes

Please make use of

tags for quotations used in the article. Makes the article look clean. Regards, theTigerKing  16:36, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

No. Wikipedia policy if I recall correctly is that we only use blockquote for longer quotes. Farrtj (talk) 18:11, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
It just makes article readable. Go for Quote tag.It is more wiki type as the usage of it is described in the description page of the tag. Manual of Style describes Blockquote and Quote tags in Manual of Style article. Regards, theTigerKing  14:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
"Format a long quote (more than about 40 words or a few hundred characters, or consisting of more than one paragraph, regardless of length) as a block quotation" (Source: Manual of Style). Point be towards an unformatted quote of more than 40 words and I will change it. Farrtj (talk) 18:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Date style

Please correct the date style used throughout the article and follow one standard throughout the article. Examples-> If you are using May 4, 2011 in one instance then please don't use May 4 2012 somewhere else. Just follow one style. Regards, theTigerKing  16:44, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Right well I think I'm going to go with DD/MM/YYYY. It's what I'm familiar with, it seems easiest. Farrtj (talk) 18:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Please check for them in references section and make them uniform throughout too. Do not go with DD/MM/YYYY as DD and MM could be confused with each other.Regards, theTigerKing  14:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I meant 12 May 2012 style quoting. And bear with me, I need time for this. Farrtj (talk) 18:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
See also and External links section
  • There is no need of having video links in the external links section. Remove them.  Done
  • Please remove the competitors from the See Also section. Again, there is no need for them.  Done

Regards, theTigerKing  16:49, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Make edits

Please stop using advert in the article. Instead replace them with advertisement.Regards, theTigerKing  16:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)  Done

Completeness

You should mention the widespread protests the company faced when it first set up shop in India in 1995. Regards, theTigerKing  16:58, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Well do. I did come across this in my research. They seem to be quite popular there now though. Can you corroborate this? Farrtj (talk) 18:11, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Okay done.  Done

Latest GA Review Section

  • I was asked to come by and take a look at the changes that have been directed by vaibhavgupta1989 (talk · contribs). I continue to believe that the citations appear haphazard. They should be presented in a consistent manner throughout. This means that the citations that are just text over a url need to be formated with several parameters in the {{cite web}} template.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:47, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Tony, only you are authorized to get the article passed as you have taken custody of the article. Before taking a final call, make sure that all the opinions expressed on this page are strictly adhered to. Please look out for each claim made in the references section. I doubt some of them are not contained in the references and are original research of the author (Example-> KFC revenues mentioned in the infobox. The reference is that of a website. I could not find revenues for the year, leave alone the page, but anywhere in the website). There is certainly problem with citations. Not only they have not been listed properly, but also they are not easily verifiable. Regards, theTigerKing  19:04, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
References formatted up to no.25. Farrtj (talk) 18:42, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Dude, please have a look at the dates too. They are not consistent in the reference section that you intend to use. And you have claimed that you have cleaned upto 25th reference! Please provide the page numbers of all the PDF references being referred to. The reader wont look through the entire PDF for verifying the claims made in the article. Be specific. Refer to How_to_create_the_list_of_citations if needed.Regards, theTigerKing  19:04, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
What is going on with this?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:56, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I have informed the nominator that I am close to failing this since there have been no improvements in recent days.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:55, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
The nominator has responded that he/she does not have time to address the remaining concern(s) now. I am failing this article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:59, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't understand this. The image was uploaded by the guy who took the picture. It has happily existed on Commons since 2008. It doesn't infringe on any copyrights. Farrtj (talk) 18:43, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Ambiguity

I fear that the American use of "sandwich" to mean what the rest of the world would call a chickenburger may be un-necessarily ambiguous. In British English, a sandwich refers exclusively to a cold snack, almost exclusively between two slices of thin sliced bread. Surely in America people understand what a "chicken burger" is? If so, I propose changing back to the term, to broaden understanding, and reduce ambiguity. Farrtj (talk) 22:32, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

I understand your concern, but the rules on varieties of English take precedent. As the company is American, the terminology usage should follow the American form. In the US, a "burger" is a hot sandwich made from ground meat that has been formed into a patty. A sandwich is any food that is served between two pieces of bread, this also follows the form of chicken sandwich, fish sandwich, etc. A whole piece of meat that has been breaded and fried is not a considered burger. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC)
The American use of sandwich is peculiar to the USA. It should not be used except in an exclusively US context. KFC is international, and so the American term should not be used. Incidentally the word "critiques" is incorrect - in the context the correct word is "criticism".203.184.41.226 (talk) 07:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Its the US and Canada, actually. The issue here is that there are multitudes of international companies based in the US and in all of those articles, the US terminology is used. That is again the rules of WP:Engvar. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 16:41, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Why not mention both of them and provide the reasoning for using them in Notes section.Regards, theTigerKing  17:06, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Tiger King makes a fair point. As per WP:Engvar, "Wikipedia tries to find words that are common to all varieties of English. Insisting on a single term or a single usage as the only correct option does not serve the purposes of an international encyclopedia." Farrtj (talk) 17:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
You could always use the second name in parenthesis ie, chicken sandwich (burger). Also, the market size for KFC is for profits China, US, then others. The Chinese market actually is the fastest growing market for the company and now has almost as many stores as all of Europe. The amount of store locations is US, China, then the others. (based on the half dozen articles I just read)
In similar articles the international section used the English varieties of the particular market. We could do chicken burger (chicken sandwich [US]) or the like.--Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 17:28, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, almost three quarters of KFC's sales are outside of the USA now. I like your "chicken burger (chicken sandwich [US])" suggestion Jeremy. Farrtj (talk) 17:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
I believe notes would be the best thing to do.Regards, theTigerKing  19:14, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Works for me. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 20:10, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

I have affected the change. Not throughout the whole article, as that would be unnecessary, but on the first few examples. Hope that suits everyone. Farrtj (talk) 21:16, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Spelling error

I think the word 'my' in the phrase "largely my car" in the history section should actually be the word "by". byahhh

KFC in East Africa

KFC also opened restaurants last year in Kenya as well as one in both Tanzania and Uganda. This information needs to be added and the map updated. Useless when an article is locked and therefore goes quickly out of date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.135.178.69 (talk) 01:40, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

IT has to be protected because it is the subject of regular vandalism. In order to add the info you mention, please provide a reliable source. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:25, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Discerning choice in the UK

There's a rather suspicious statement in the UK & Ireland operations section - 'In the UK, KFC is considered to be the more discerning choice for fast food compared to its major rivals McDonald's and Burger King.'

This seems to be rather anecdotal at best. Anecdotally, as someone in the UK, I would suggest that the popular perception is in fact the complete opposite. I would suggest the existing statement either needs tagging as 'citation needed' or for it to be stricken from the article on the grounds it is an opinion rather than factual information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.15.180.106 (talk) 15:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. I've removed it per WP:NPOV as an unsourced personal opinions. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:35, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

KFC Argentina

KFC is scheduled to open a restaurant in Argentina before the end of the year. Can someone please mark Argentina in this map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/KFC_world_map1.png/800px-KFC_world_map1.png ? Here are my sources (spanish): http://negocios.iprofesional.com/notas/130690-Tras-el-regreso-de-Wendys-Kentucky-Fried-Chicken-llega-a-la-Argentina , http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1504484-las-segundas-partes-pueden-ser-buenas , http://www.facebook.com/KFCArgentina (official facebook page). --Gonzaloges (talk) 14:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Biggest KFC in the world. The biggest KFC Restaurant was opened in Baku, Azerbaijan on 25 October 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.132.99.135 (talk) 18:10, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

His Wife AND his Wife

"It is believed that Sanders only ever shared the recipe with his wife Claudia, Pete Harman and his wife, and Jack C. Massey." There is either a redundant backup wife, or just the same word mentioned twice... Someone might wanna correct that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.188.49.62 (talk) 21:32, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

It's clear from the grammar and punctuation that the second wife is Pete Harman's. Farrtj (talk) 21:38, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

"Less than a handful"

This phrase is ridiculous - ambiguous and meaningless. A 'handful' in itself is an ambiguous word so to qualify something as being 'less than' a handful is absurd. I haven't got the necessary privileges to edit the page so could somebody change "Less than a handful of employees..." in the Original Recipe section to "Only a handful of employees..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chazwozzler (talk • contribs) 23:16, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Well spotted. Edit made. Farrtj (talk) 23:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Poundstone

Poundstone is helpful when it comes to Sanders' cooking methods (which were never actually a secret: every single KFC cook obviously knew what they were), but his claim to "reverse engineer" the secret recipe is bogus. You can't reverse engineer herbs and spices. Farrtj (talk) 15:56, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I haven't read the book (nor have I worked at KFC) but it's not the methods or steps of the recipe that's a secret; it's the 11 herbs and spices. And it is possible to take the mixture and scientifically discern what the ingredients are. --Musdan77 (talk) 19:21, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Well he's wrong. If KFC say that the herbs and spices are in there, then they're in there. What are Poundstone's credentials anyway? All sorts of conspiracy theorists can get books published. Farrtj (talk) 19:32, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
That's a rather specious argument. Corporations make dubious assertions regarding their trade secrets all the time; the only thing that matters is whether Poundstone's results have been independently verified. Given that Poundstone's primary claim to fame is the Big Secrets series, it seems sensible to afford his claim some mention in the article body. As for "reverse engineering", I'm not sure what you're trying to claim here. Are you nitpicking over what constitutes "reverse engineering"? I'm sure in the modern sense a majority would agree that taking a given mixture and deducing what its ingredients are (which is what Poundstone did) falls under that category. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 05:16, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Extraordinary claims such as Poundstone's, deserve extraordinary references. And it is 30 years since Poundstone's book was published. How come no other evidence has emerged during this time? Farrtj (talk) 20:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

And if the spice bags that KFC franchisees pay top dollar from the company to obtain contained only salt and pepper and flour, do you not think these franchisees would have clubbed together to sue KFC for fraud by now? Farrtj (talk) 20:02, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
That's not for us to decide. We need not present Poundstone's findings as fact; however, if they have been remarked upon by reliable secondary sources, then we ought to at least note that he published research on them. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 12:20, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Sandwich/burger

This was discussed a long time ago here [1], and we agreed to compromise on "chicken burger", with "(chicken sandwich [US])" mentioned for clarity in the first instance. Burger is preferred over sandwich, after a brief check, in the UK and Ireland, Australia, Singapore, New Zealand, Hong Kong, South Africa, Malaysia, the Phillipines, India, Turkey. The issue here is clarity.

[2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]

"Chicken burger" also seems to be the term in popular use in Canada [12]

Farrtj (talk) 21:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

How is this for "clarity"? (by the way, you're first link redirects back here) --any more than how I had it? To the contrary, everyone knows what a sandwich is, but "burger" is obscure. The use here does not follow any dictionary definitions I've read (as well as the article that it's erroneously linked to). And, as this article states, KFC is headquartered in the U.S. and its largest market is the U.S., so the article should be mainly from the American perspective (including using American English).
Also, you've explained your reason for reverting the first part of my edit but not the second part. --Musdan77 (talk) 02:59, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Our preference for the use of US English in this article does not mean we should unduly confuse international readers. "Chicken sandwich" is a uniquely American idiom (in the UK, for instance, this would unambiguously refer to cold chicken and sliced bread, as stated previously), and the foodstuff in question is known predominantly around the world as a chicken burger (nitpicking about the precise definition of "sandwich" or "burger" is neither here nor there, as we simply follow prevailing us rather than trying to be normative) as Farrtj has indicated with the above references. The only real question is whether to say "chicken sandwich (chicken burger outside of the US)" or "chicken burger (chicken sandwich in the US)". Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 05:07, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
  1. ^ 1634–1699: McCusker, J. J. (1997). How Much Is That in Real Money? A Historical Price Index for Use as a Deflator of Money Values in the Economy of the United States: Addenda et Corrigenda (PDF). American Antiquarian Society. 1700–1799: McCusker, J. J. (1992). How Much Is That in Real Money? A Historical Price Index for Use as a Deflator of Money Values in the Economy of the United States (PDF). American Antiquarian Society. 1800–present: Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. "Consumer Price Index (estimate) 1800–". Retrieved February 29, 2024.
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