Talk:John Collier (painter)

Title shift

I disagree with the move to "John Mahler Collier" and, since the original title "John Collier" seems no longer to be available, have moved to "John Collier (artist)". But I think "John Collier" was better. John Collier always signed his paintings and his books "John Collier" and was not, so far as I am aware, ever known in any context by any other name. There is not a single Google hit on "John Mahler Collier" except this Wikipedia article - pretty remarkable, given that ' "john collier" painter ' generates 65,800 Google hits, almost all of which (judging from the early pages, anyway) refer to this artist. I wonder what the source is for calling him John Mahler Collier? But even if that was his birth name, the example of e.g. Arthur Evelyn St John Waugh, who is in Wikipedia under his universally used names "Evelyn Waugh" suggests that the article should be under the best known name, with perhaps a redirect from the little if ever used full names. If disambiguation is necessary, which perhaps it is, I do not think this is the answer; a disambiguation page will do fine. It may also be relevant that the man who now holds the "John Collier" slot on Wikipedia appears to have been much less influential and prominent in his chosen field (short story writer) than the painter was, and to have had the full names "John Henry Collier" (see edit summary dated 16 November 2003, which moved his article to "John Collier (writer)" from "John Henry Collier" for precisely the reasons (that is the name by which he is known) that cause me to object to this move for the painter). Incidentally, the spelling of the painter's middle name in this article differs in the new page name ("Mahler") and at the beginning of the article ("Maler") and in the edit summary accompanying the move ("Malher"); I am not sure which is correct since I am unaware of any of them. Chelseaboy 16:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Impact of photography

I just want to point out how photographic his approach is. The doves on the first picture are umbelievable. Anyone heard if he ever used photographs?. Some of them look just like collages. Mrfoxtalbot —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.224.158.22 (talk) 00:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Interesting question: his would have been the first generation to be brought up surrounded by photographs, and hence the first to be assisted or tormented by the new medium. Not sure I agree about the doves, though... Macdonald-ross (talk) 11:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Spelling of Mady's name

In both this article and in Huxley family Mady's name is spelled both "Marian" and "Marion". Which is correct? (She is distinct from Noel Huxley Waller's wife and his daughter, both named Marion, so be careful editing.) 58.147.60.97 (talk) 07:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Correct as Marian in the original text; the misspelling crept in from the file name of photographs. Macdonald-ross (talk) 14:20, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 16 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 13:03, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

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John Collier (Pre-Raphaelite painter) → John Collier (painter) –

• Per WP:NC, the title should be "no longer than necessary" to identify a subject and distinguish itself from other subjects. Someone who searches "John Collier" will see different artists and having "(painter)" as a disambiguator is adequate enough to distinguish this artist from others. "Pre-Raphaelite" is a redundant descriptor. It would only make sense to disambiguate it like that if there were others with that name known primarily as a painter.
• No-one else listed at John Collier is notable primarily as a painter. John Collier (caricaturist) may have done some of his illustrations in paintings, but he's not primarily identified as a painter. Paintings seem to be just one format that he did his illustrations. The Oxford DNB identifies him for being notable as a "satirist and caricaturist", not as a painter. And even if all his works were paintings, he's notable as a satirist/caricaturist and paintings were merely a form to express this unlike this article's subject, who is notable for the artwork of the paintings themselves. Spellcast (talk) 09:44, 16 July 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Natg 19 (talk) 00:56, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support as nom. Spellcast (talk) 21:21, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
• support he is the only one notable as a painter. A hatnote can be added for the satirist if deemed necessary.-67.68.29.1 (talk) 19:32, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose once something is parenthetically disambiguated there's no benefit in trimming the parenthesis. The other John Collier also painted, so let it be. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:40, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

Both points were already addressed above: 1) Trimming benefits it by removing redundancy and complying with the WP:NC policy of having titles "no longer than necessary" and 2) the other Collier having also painted is irrelevant because he wasn't primarily notable as a painter. The other Collier was notable as a satirist and painting was a form he expressed it through, whereas this Collier is notable as an artist from the paintings themselves. Spellcast (talk) 03:03, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support in principle. I'd like a better disambiguation method, though. Red Slash 19:30, 28 July 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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