User talk:Middayexpress/Archive 5

Please be linear and moderate. Facts cannot be denied. Dantaada (talk) 21:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

hello, Middayexpress, in regard to the messages you have sent me, I have my edits based on archeological evidence through the excavations i've formerly and currently done in native Somalia and am writing essays i wish to publish based on the evidence i have found in my Homeland. im just editing upon my research and archeological evidence through my excavations and also have many references to somewhat back my evidence prior to my excavations and after it, furthermore i have been working on excavation digs in Somaliland since the late 90s and through it have found many evidence leading to backing my edits

so in conclusion i kindly implore you to stop editing my work, and to stop reverting them in reason because they are facts i have discovered in Somaliland

Thank You Somalia1995 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Somalia1995 (talk • contribs) 23:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Just how many sockpuppet accounts do you have exactly, Dantaada? Whatever the case, we don't go by your own personal assurances on Wikipedia, but on reliable sources only & work through a process of consensus. I believe I already indicated this to you on your talk page. Middayexpress (talk) 23:57, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Unblocking of Dantaada

Hello, for courtesy reasons I am coming to your page to inform you that I have unblocked Dantaada after a discussion with the checkuser, and a further consideration of the situation reflected at Abdirahman Mohamud Farole and Puntland. I understand your good intentions in relation to your report at here. I welcome you to attempt to work through with Dantaada in relation to these articles (and any others that you might cross paths on). I will be available to assist with regards any concerns relation to 3rr by either party, and if necessary to a locking down of any article whilst content dispute issues are resolved. You can find me at my talk page almost every day if you require a place to express concerns, request support etc. With best wishes --VirtualSteve ^{need admin support?} 06:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

puntland and farole issues through peaceful channels rather than edit warring

Editing and counter editing (reverting) or accusation and counter accusation again and again is not solution. My style of editing might be different from yours but NPOV, No original resarch, verifiability and reliable sources should be followed by avoiding vandalism, edit warring and conflict of interests.

Wikipedia article (page) is owned by no single person. It is free encyclopedia that everyone can contribute (edit) as long as he/she does not violate Wikipedia policies and principles. Thus I again analyzed Puntland article and found out the following points:

1- In the opening (first) paragraph there is sentence “A third of the Somali people live in the province.” I tried to verify the validity of this claim but could not find any reliable third party source or publication supporting this. Citation is needed or else this statement will fail to meet reliable sources and verifiability principles (policies)of Wikipedia.

Not a problem. A "citation needed" tag can go there until a source is located (which shouldn't take long). Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

2- In paragraph2 of heading “politics” Puntland#Politics ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntland#Politics), there is sentence “Dr Farole had left Puntland in 2006 after a falling out with then president Hersi over a deal with the Australian company Range Resources.” The prefix “Dr.” is used when the person holds doctoral degree and as we know Mr. Farole has been PhD candidate at La Trobe University (see http://www.latrobe.edu.au/uninews/assets/downloads/190109.pdf ). Citation of reliable third party source or publication supporting this (Dr.) is required otherwise it will be removed in accordance with Wikipedia principles.

Sure we can remove that, if it makes you feel any better. But I think you'll be disappointed to learn that Farole is often referred to as "Dr." and by much more recent reliable sources than the one you've cited above too. See #5 below. Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

3- In the heading “geography” Puntland#Geography(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntland#Geography ), “Karkaar, Haylaan and Cayn” are mentioned as regions of Somalia (Somali Republic) that are part of Puntland State. But according to the last administrative divisions (regions) of Somalia such regions did not exist (see http://www.statoids.com/uso.html). You left message on mytalk page User_talk:Dantaada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dantaada) saying “ http://www.statoids.com/uso.html ” to be outdated (page was updated 2007). Suppose (2007)is outdated as you think but remember as long as there is no Somali Republic Government that redistributes or names new regions (administrative divisions), these regions mentioned at statoids.com and else where are valid. Thus to claim “Karkaar, Haylaan and Cayn” as regions of Somalia, citation is needed that is both reliable and verifiable otherwise they will be subject to review within the boundaries of Wikipedia policies and principles. On the other hand, the region Mudug consists of: “Jariiban, Goldogob, Gaalkacyo, Hobyo and Xaradheere” districts (administrative subdivisions) (see http://www.statoids.com/yso.html). Puntland controls (administrates) “Jariiban, Goldogob and part of Gaalkacyo (Northern part)”. The remaining districts (i.e Hobyo, Xaradheere and south Gaalkacyo) are out of Puntland State’s rule. As per NPOV, this fact is to be mentioned.

I'm afraid you are mistaken here. Your entire argument is based on a self-published website, which Wikipedia expressly discourages since anyone can create them and then proclaim to be an expert on a given topic. Secondly, the material it cites is way out-of-date. I believe I already pointed this out to you on your talk page, but you of course didn't listen then for some reason. Have a look at that website's Bibliography section, where it cites its references: there exactly two sources listed which were published in this decade, and neither has anything to do with Somalia. Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

4- Again in the heading “geography” Puntland#Geography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puntland#Geography ), in the second last paragraph says “Both the Sool and Sanaag regions have declared themselves autonomous parts of Somalia as Northland State (2008) and Maakhir State (2007), respectively, but Maakhir has rejoined Puntland after the arrival of General Abdullahi Ahmed Jama Ilkajir in 2008.” There is no citation for this statement. Unless citation of reliable and verifiable third party source or publication is supported, it will be open to revision.

The fact that Maakhir rejoined Puntland is very easily sourceable. I'm not sure about so-called "Northland State", but a source wouldn't be out of place. Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

5- Come to farole page. His academic (education) record and work experience are taken from the source: Garoweonline.com ( http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/puntland_election/C_raxman_Farole_oo_soo_gudbiyey_C_V.shtml ). However Goroweonline.com is not reliable source. In this link of Mr. Farole’s CV, it says “PhD Candidate –Development of Somali Financial Institutions in historical perspective.” At the same time it has another article by itself (http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2/publish/Somalia_27/Somalia_A_historic_journey_from_opposition_to_the_Puntland_presidency.shtml ) in which it calls Dr. Farole “Dr. Farole, 63, won in the third round of voting by the 66-seat Puntland Parliament, which essentially functions as the region's Electoral College.” This is the latest one of the two links by garoweonline.com. Garoweonline.com publications (articles) contradict each other. Thus farole page requires new revision and reliable citations.

That's absurd. Garoweonline is a reliable source with a respectable publishing record, so it isn't going anywhere I'm afraid. If Farole is referred to as "Dr." in one of the articles on Garoweonline, that may have something to do with the fact that he is often referred to as such. That includes other reliable sources such as Australia's The Age news outfit, a source which you yourself have ironically "cited" (if I can indeed call it that) in the past. Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

On conclusion, I ask you (middayexpress) to consider the works (contributions) of others to farole, puntland and other Somali related Wikipedia Pages by not reverting (undoing) and disrupting their efforts as long as they do not violate Wikipedia policies and principles. On the other hand, if you have objection(s) on the points I have discussed above of puntland and farole, you are welcome to share with me and other concerned Wikipedians. Remember Wikipedia is free encyclopedia everyone can edit on good faith.

Gee, how very considerate of you Dantaada (though you didn't need to pluralize "other" seeing as how your User:Runta & User:HotIssue accounts have been disabled). As if you even had a choice but to cooperate after having been blocked! Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

N.B.: last time you (middayexpress) left me message on my talkpage User_talk:Dantaada that seemed aggressive. It says “Look Shabeellaha: I know it's you. And if you persist with this charade, so will everyone else. I'm asking you again nicely to desist with your soapboxing. Middayexpress (talk) 21:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)”

Please be patient and polite.

BY Dantaada (talk) 17:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Given the content and especially the format of your post above Dantaada, I now know with 100% certainty that you are indeed Shabeellaha as well. So I'm actually very glad you dropped by and let that factoid slip out. By the way, "patient" is an adjective, not a noun, and the word "bye" is spelled with an "e" at the end. Bye. Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I must say, though, Shabeellaha... uh, I mean, Dantaada, that you continue to amaze me with your surprisingly deft, comprehensive and precocious mastery of Wiki editing & policies given your short week or so editing! Heck, you even know how to get your sullied username changed! Truly something to behold! ;-D Middayexpress (talk) 19:58, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

• Further to our previous discussion and again out of courtesy I draw your attention to comments in relation to the above post by Dantaada at this location. I have made specific comments in relation to your suggestions above, which for the most part I generally agree with and I have made specific comments with regards your final bullet point comments of frustration against Dantaada. I ask that you please note those comments. I ask you also to note my final comments to both editors. It will be easy for you to take the road where displeased with the Dantaada situation you take an alternate road but I have seen many occassions where an editor or editors who are antagonised by some other editor/s eventually work together to reach a balanced article/s. I wish you well in your endeavours towards the latter of these two outcomes. From my part I will in terms of administrative actions treat all editors equally. Best wishes.--VirtualSteve ^{need admin support?} 22:11, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Alright, good to know. Middayexpress (talk) 22:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Formal warning

I have already cautioned you elsewhere in relation to the content of some of your comments. In the future please comment on content only. Comments on editors such as this one are inappropriate. Lantaada is entitled to post their concerns and views on my talk page and your categorisation of those comments as being "ridiculous" is far from helpful. Previous comments that belittle the English level of others are also unhelpful. Personal attacks are a form of disruption because they limit the ability of others to edit at the project and they are a blockable offence.--VirtualSteve ^{need admin support?} 22:32, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the warning. Can't say it comes as a surprise though. Cheerio! Middayexpress (talk) 22:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Unified Task Force

There is a site of the brigade that fought the battle. Can be good? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.54.246.207 (talk) 13:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

my level of English grammar and...

Hi Middayexpress

Refer to your comments on "please be patient and polite" and "by dantaada". The word "patient" is adjective as you have mentioned. But remember in the sentence "please be patient and polite", the word "patient" is a subject complement according to English grammar and subject complement can be either adjective or noun. An example where subject complement is adjective is "you are good". Here "good" is adjective and is subject complement. Therefore there was nothing wrong. For more information about "subject complement" from English grammar perspective, follow this link ( http://www.sil.org/linguistics/GlossaryOfLinguisticTerms/WhatIsASubjectComplement.htm ). On the other hand, I did not mean "by" to say "bye" or "good bye". I wanted to express my identity (signature) and it was correct grammatically.

Whatever. Middayexpress (talk) 02:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate your correction of "Dr." before the name of Mr. Farole in puntland. I also expect you or some other Wikipedians (including me) to improve farole and puntland articles if they require corrections and addition of more information (no original research) without violating Wikipedia policies and principles.

Again, your patent and astoundingly precocious mastery of Wikipedia & all of its policies for a self-professed newbie continues to astound me. Middayexpress (talk) 02:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

You have provided source (reference) for "A third of Somalia's population lives in the province.[2]". first, the link was about the news of "Puntland Information Minister assassination" (http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=102665&sectionid=351020501). It does not relate to distribution of Somali population across Somali regions. Second "presstv.com" is news website. It is not "population studies" website that analyzes population distributions across countries and regions. The statement "Puntland, home to one-third of Somalia's population, was declared an autonomous region in 1998" might be the reporter's comment. Further more the website "presstv.com" does not even mention the source of "Puntland, home to one-third of Somalia's population, was declared an autonomous region in 1998"

I don't think so. Press TV is an internationally renowned news organization that also has a reliable publishing record (unlike the self-published websites you keep pulling up). It doesn't need to be what you dub a "population studies" website in order to factually assert what exactly is a country's population. Ideally, such websites would perhaps be preferable. But in Somalia's case where it is difficult to gauge the population at any given time do to the civil war, reliable news outfits such as Press TV are an adequate alternative. Whatever the case, other reliable sources state the same thing (e.g. this brand new paper from the Society for International Development Forum) so I'm afraid you have no point here. Even if we look at what Puntland's population is and then compare it to Somalia's as a whole, it comes out at about a third: the CIA factbook asserts that Somalia has a population of around 9 million people whereas the Puntland government and other authoritative sources indicate that there are upwards of 3 million inhabitants in Puntland. Like it or not, that is indeed about a third of Somalia's population. Also note that Puntland's population is rapidly increasing due to an influx of internally displaced people from southern Somalia & also from neighboring countries. Middayexpress (talk) 02:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

You have also provided source for "Both the Sool and Sanaag regions have declared themselves autonomous parts of Somalia as Northland State (2008)[21]". The reference was ( http://www.awrboogays.com/display_page.php?articleid=379 ). This was personal opinion by a person named himself "Abdimalik Askar, PhD Candidate". This is not what I am claiming. It is written at the end "qoraalkan waxaa na soo gaadhsiiyay odayga ku saxiixan" which is, in English translation "this writing (article) was delivered to us (awrboogays.com) by the signatory ". The reliability of "awrboogays.com" as a source is also questionable.

That's absurd. This source is a press release directly from the very people that declared Northland an autonomous "state" in the first place & officially for the first time. This press release was also covered by several other Somali news websites (e.g. Xaragaga Online, Allgedo Online News), not just awrboogays (which, by the way, you have not proven is an unreliable source). I'm sorry if this makes you uncomfortable, but the Somali news websites that are based within Somalia itself are the people that cover these things & it's to them who the Northland people chose to send their press release declaring the region an autonomous "state". Middayexpress (talk) 02:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

If it happens that we (lantaada and middayexpress) or any other editors cannot reach agreement about the contents of farole and puntland internally, it might be referred to relevant Wikipedia noticeboard(s) for resolution of disputes. I will try my best to avoid this and work with you and other concerned Wikipedians on good faith as long as I can. Because solving our differences internally is better than taking it to noticeboard or third-party. Collaboration is the best strategy to opt for.

The only person "disputing" this material and who has only ever disputed this material is you. And as just shown above (again), you don't exactly have a point, nor will any amount of coercive ultimatums change that. Middayexpress (talk) 02:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

At the end, I kindly ask you once again to be patient and polite. Continuation of aggressive words and comments against my personality may result legal actions against you. Please avoid them.

BY Lantaada (talk) 17:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You are not an administrator and are in no position to tell me or anyone else how Wiki law shall be applied nor are you in a position to apply it. So go ahead and wikilawyer all you want, it won't change the facts on the ground. Bye. Middayexpress (talk) 02:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Maxamed Gorgaate

Maxamed Gorgaate and Madhibaan are the same thing, Madhibaan is their nickname. Do a google search. And undo your revert please. Ingoman (talk) 20:02, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I will do no such thing because Madhiban is the more common name for the clan (as is Midgan, incidentally). And articles on Wikipedia are named after the most easily recognizable name. Middayexpress (talk) 20:05, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Midgan is an insulting term and not a clan name, and many unrelated groups are called 'Midgaan'. Madhibaan is not just another name for Midgan, Madhibaan is the nickname of Maxamed Gorgaate. Musa Deriyeh is a completely different group from Maxamed Gorgaate, as are Tumaal, Lo'jiir and Yibir. Ingoman (talk) 20:13, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Amongst the groups called "Midgan" include: Nuux Maxamed (Majerteen Darood), Maxamed Gorgaate (Hawiye), Lo'Jiir (Gurgura Dir), and the Yibir, Musa Diriye (aka Gabooye) and Tumaal who I don't know the origin of. Ingoman (talk) 20:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Midgan is not in and of itself a pejorative, but is sometimes used as one in the same way that the term Jew isn't in and of itself a pejorative but can in the wrong hands be used in that way. And Madhibaan is interchangeable with Midgan in the literature, which is all that matters on Wikipedia. Middayexpress (talk) 20:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL do you know what Midgan means? Ingoman (talk) 20:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Suffice it to say you know nothing of the people in question, craftsmen? Are you thinking of Tumaal? Madhibaan are hunter-gatherers. The fact that you consider yourself an authority enough to revert my edit is a joke. Ingoman (talk) 20:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow... so hostile. *smh* It makes no difference what Midgan means because that is not what the article is titled. As for the rest of your arguments, reliable sources such as those already cited thankfully take precedence over lay Wikipedians (i.e. you) any day. Middayexpress (talk) 20:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Read up : [1], or get some friend to translate for you. In fact just buy the book and The Invention of Somalia too, and educate yourself. There are people better informed than you. Ingoman (talk) 22:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I fail to see how it supports what you're saying though (whatever that is). Middayexpress (talk) 22:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

• You two both need to lay off each other! Move on to another article or do something else than flexing any muscle in the opposing direction, please.--VirtualSteve ^{need admin support?} 22:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)