Talk:Tim Guest

The adding of vague phrases.

What less legal drugs? and what difficulties did he face? You love these tabloid gardian gossip pieces don't you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs) 14:04, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Adding well sourced useful info. and its deletion

Dear Off2riorob, having "Guest's adjustment was difficult and invovled a period of dabbling with alchohol and other less legal drugs." seems to me factual, useful and nicely phrased. It is sourced: "Guest dabbled with drink and drugs but eventually sought refuge in writing" is from the Telgraph and "Tim had a rough adolescence. 'In my mid-teens, I drank and took a lot of drugs. I nearly lost it.' He opens his book with the story of another child, who hanged himself at one of the Bhagwan's communes in Devon. He says in the book, and repeats to me, that he feels that child could have been him." from the Observer. These both seem reliable sources and to give some insight into Guest's life. I am not sure why you keep removing things that seem to me well worth including form articles. (Msrasnw (talk) 16:40, 9 August 2009 (UTC))

here is a book review [[1]]

He dabbled in drink and drugs, you could say that about bill clinton, its dramatic non specific and add nothing of any worth. All teenagers have a difficult tinme adjusting. I myself was once sat on the park 15 years old with a hundred paracetamol in my hand ans almost took them.

We could add, like the majority of teenagers he had a temultous adolesence, you can't add that he sought refuge in writing, it is an opinion and he didn't start writing until 20 something, when the temultous time was over, lets not add rubish stuff even if it is in a rubbish sensationalist gossip article. Lets add something worthwhile and not sensatioalist stuff, like you added...drink and othe less legal drugs.

I had exactually the same issues with you on the Derek Draper article and I left you alone there and took it off my watchlist, perhaps it's your turn to cut me a little bit of slack. regards (Off2riorob (talk) 17:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC))

I do not think cutting you a bit of slack is appropriate. You hounded me on the Draper article and you have now started again on an article I started. We are trying to produce useful and informative and sourced articles. You seem to me to just delete anything you don't like.(Msrasnw (talk) 17:09, 9 August 2009 (UTC))

I never hounded you at all. I removed those pages from my watchlist and left you alone. I asked you for a bit of slack and your response is disappointing. (Off2riorob (talk) 19:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC))

Guru obsessed with magic

This page is about guest not the guru. Think to yourself guest guest guest and add things about him, forget the guru, guest was a child when his mother left there. Off2riorob (talk) 20:14, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

here is what you added...

Guest "makes no bones of the fact that he thinks Bhagwan was a charlatan, noting early on the guru's obsession with magic tricks and hypnotism."

look at it, remember guest was 11 when his mother left the movement. (Off2riorob (talk) 20:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC))

References

Made some sections and using extra info from My Life in Orange

I have made some sections but I think we should include lots of the info from our entry on his Orange book page here rather than there. Here it would seem more appropriate to me. Any thoughts? (Msrasnw (talk) 10:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC))

Sounds ok if cirt has written a lot of his life story on that page then the book review should be just that, material should not be duplicated about him all over different pages of wiki,trouble is that the book Life in Orange is a memoir. he is not that important. Lets try to keep it focused on the subject though, sounds fine, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 12:16, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Picture

I am Looking for a free picture, if anyone has one let me know. (Off2riorob (talk) 12:19, 10 August 2009 (UTC))

Tim Guest and the movement

this comment...

Guest and his mother left the movement when he was 11 years old and they returned to London.

It can easily be said that Tim was never in the movement as he was a minor and had no choice in the matter, his mother was in the movement but Tim never had the luxury of that choice. Off2riorob (talk) 16:02, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Also the title of the section is wrong, as tim was a minor and this page is about him, it was his mother that left the osho movement not him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Off2riorob (talk • contribs) 16:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Bias in the article

Looking over this article again, after a break, I think it fails to give a real feel for Guest's views on his life in Bhagwan's movement. He seems to me to have been highly critical of the movement and this was an important part of his life. I think including a line like he "makes no bones of the fact that he thinks Bhagwan was a charlatan, noting early on the guru's obsession with magic tricks and hypnotism." would be very useful. I won't do this yet but just like to register the view that as it stands I think the article is severly lacking. (Msrasnw (talk) 16:15, 27 August 2009 (UTC))

Agree with Msrasnw (talk · contribs). Cirt (talk) 23:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

References

Excerpts

I've posted this also at My Life in Orange

Here's a piece from the Telegraph obit cited there:

Barnaby Burch, who grew up with Guest in a commune in Suffolk, said his family were "devastated" by his untimely demise.

Mr Burch, who also goes by his Osho name Majid, said that he last saw Mr Guest for his stag party in Berlin in October and his wedding to Jo at Islington Town Hall the week afterwards. He said his death had come as a "huge shock".

"He was in his mid-30s, had his whole life ahead of him, starting to really make his name in journalism and writing, he had just got married and was really, really happy," he said. "It was a really good time for him and his death is all the more tragic for that. I can only imagine how Jo must be feeling.

"I just remember him as my geeky, gawky friend, and the days of roaming around Hamstead Heath on our bikes, playing computer games, sharing our favourite books. I got to see him blossom and develop into a grown man, but I will always remember him as a nine-year-old boy."

This "Majid" is saying that a) he remained in contact with TG - seems quite closely - and b) he continues to "go by his Osho name".

I think this is something worth including. I must admit that it has surprised me, though, reading abstracts from the present book, to read;

"I had no other evidence of my commune childhood. I had lost touch with the other commune kids..... Then, in January 1990, when I was fourteen, in the back of the newspaper on my mother's kitchen table I found an article about the commune. I carried that clipping around with me because I finally had one single piece of concrete evidence: at last, something outside of me existed to confirm it had all taken place. I treasured the clipping because it was a single piece of ballast: something to hold me to the ground, to make my history real."

Something does not add up, and it seems to me the article requires the introduction of critical and comparative apparatus to establish the veracity of TGs account. Redheylin (talk) 18:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

That appears to be WP:SYNTH. We would require secondary sources that themselves make this sort of analysis, as opposed to Wikipedians. Cirt (talk) 23:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Hello Cirt - I am not seeking a personal synthesis but noting that there is further reliable material worth including while pointing out - here, not in the text - that it does not fit with the book's account. If the book remains notable then I am sure the question will appear in notable criticism - and if this happens it should be included, it seems to be needed. Meanwhile, the Obit info can be included without raising unexplained contradiction, since the mentioned account does not occur here in the article. Redheylin (talk) 19:29, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Death

Edited to remove reference to "100 times lethal dose" taken from an inaccurate Evening Standard article. New reference to Observer article added with citation of blood morphine concentration. This is more of the order of 5-10 times a "lethal dose", assuming it refers to free morphine concentration. In any case a lethal dose will vary from person to person and depend upon the tolerance of the individual, the original phrasing is thus misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.195.142.85 (talk) 23:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

External links modified

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