Talk:Stånga Church

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Stånga Church/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Venicescapes (talk · contribs) 09:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I'd be very pleased to work with you on this article.

Thank you, I'm happy to have you as the reviewer!

General layout and images

 Done

• The images all look fine. I would move the image of the interior into the appropriate section. To prevent it from affecting the 'Current use and heritage status' subsection, you can insert the 'clear' template.

• As a preference, I don't think that a single subsection makes sense. I would divide 'Main portal and monumental sculptures' into two subsections: 'Main portal' and 'Monumental sculptures', even if they are brief. I would also also group 'Exterior' and 'Interior' under a broader heading such as 'Building'. But this depends on how you've structured similar articles.Venicescapes (talk) 10:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for the suggestions. I have made some changes to the layout, basically in line with your recommendations. This also gave me the opportunity to add one more image, with some more detail. Let me know if you think this works. Yakikaki (talk) 11:47, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• The layout looks good. The "interior" image is pushing down into the following subsection (which is okay). But it should not push down into the 'Notes' section, You should insert the clear template at the end of the 'Current use and heritage status' subsection. You might want to consider moving the first image (The main portal) to the left to better distribute colour. If you move any of the other images to the left, it will likely push one of the headings to the right.Venicescapes (talk) 12:45, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

• I experimented a bit with this but in my opinion it would look worse with the "clear" template there, it would leave a large empty white space. As it is it pushed into the note section, it's true, but without pushing any text around. I think it looks and reads better as it is right now, but if you insist I will of course add the template. I moved the picture of the capitals as you suggested. Yakikaki (talk) 14:17, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Since the notes section is not large, we can leave it as is without the clear template. I was actually referring to the first image which I think should be moved left. The detail could stay on the right.Venicescapes (talk) 15:16, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, fixed.

This section is basically done. You should remove the periods at the end of the captions that are not sentences. This occurs twice. To better parallel the other captions, I would also suggest slightly rewording the final caption: The interior, viewed towards the chancel, with the rood cross hanging in the chancel archVenicescapes (talk) 06:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Done.

Lead

 Done

• Perhaps mention the previous pagan use of the site.

• I added a sentence about it.

• The oldest parts of the currently visible stone church date from the first half of the 13th century and replaced an earlier, wooden church.

I understand that you want to emphasize that not all of the current church was built in the 13th century and therefore replaced the wooden church. But, as worded, it’s a little ambiguous. Parts (subject) and replaced (verb) could give the impression (I assume mistaken) that parts of the wooden church survive. In this case, I would recommend something like: The oldest parts of the current stone church date from the first half of the 13th century when an earlier wooden church was replaced.

• Thank you for the suggestion, I have done as you propose.

• The church was substantially altered during the 14th century, when a new nave was built.

If the above sentence is changed as suggested, there is a repetition of “when” which could be resolved: The church was substantially altered during the 14th century with the construction of a new nave. This also avoids the repetition of built/rebuild: The church was substantially altered during the 14th century, when a new nave was built. The intent was probably to rebuild the entire church, but for some reason this never happened.

• I have followed your advice also here.

• The intent was probably to rebuild the entire church, but for some reason this never happened.

Compound sentence. Insert comma after church.

• Done.

• The very unusual, large Gothic sculptures currently immured next to the south portal of the church were thus possibly intended to be incorporated in a new tower portal, but in the end simply put where there was space for them.

This seems too detailed for the lead. I would delete it. If you decide to maintain it, you should probably explain in what way they are 'very unusual'.

• I have reworded this.

• In the 19th century, the chancel and the apse of the church had to be replaced, and the congregation chose to rebuild them as similar as possible to the medieval building.

Do we know why they had to be replaced?

• I added a few words about structural damage.

More to follow.Venicescapes (talk) 09:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this, I have tried to address all of these. Yakikaki (talk) 10:17, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

In the lead, I think that the word church needs to be varied. Also, the lead needs a little sentence variety (most sentences start with The) and more paragraphs. A solution could be:

Stånga Church (Swedish: Stånga kyrka) is a medieval church in Stånga on the Swedish island of Gotland. The site of the church has probably been considered sacred since before the Christianization of Scandinavia.

The oldest parts of the current stone church date from the first half of the 13th century when an earlier wooden church was replaced. The building was substantially altered during the 14th century with the construction of a new nave. Most likely, the intent was to rebuild the entire edifice, but this did not occur for unknown reasons. A group of large Gothic sculptures, currently immured next to the south portal of the church, was possibly intended for a new tower that was never built.

In the 19th century, the chancel and the apse of the church had to be replaced due to structural damage. The congregation chose to rebuild them as similar as possible to the medieval building. The church belongs to the Church of Sweden and lies in the Diocese of Visby.

Let me know what you think and if you're pleased.Venicescapes (talk) 14:55, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I am very pleased and indebted to you for proposing such excellent improvements to this article. I exchanged the current lead for this one and added another short part about the sculptures, since they are to a large extent what makes the church stand out. Yakikaki (talk) 15:19, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Location and surroundings

 Done

Stånga Church lies in the middle of its cemetery. The old cemetery is surrounded by a wall.

I would combine these sentences to avoid repeating cemetery: Stånga Church lies in the middle of its cemetery which is surrounded by a wall.

• I expanded this a bit, it was a bit vague because there is an old and a new cemetery; however the new cemetery wasn't mentioned in the text. I added a few words about it.

Several archaeological findings in the vicinity of the church, notably clothing objects from the 11th and early 12th centuries such as buckles, buttons and jewellery chains, indicate that the location has been used as a burial ground since before the construction of the church. Probably it was a pagan sacred site which continued to be used following the Christianization of Scandinavia.

Do we know when the archaeological excavations were done and by whom?

The sources are a bit vague. One name is mentioned, Hans Hansson (no Wikipedia page), but it seems he only excavated some of the graves. I would leave the text as it is, considering the lack of clarity in the sources.

As structured, the verb tenses are difficult to resolve. Since (I assume) it’s still an active cemetery, the present perfect is appropriate. But you’re also dealing with a chronological sequence. You might consider: Several archaeological findings in the vicinity of the church, notably clothing objects from the 11th and early 12th centuries such as buckles, buttons and jewellery chains, indicate that the location was already being used as a burial ground prior to the construction of the church. Probably it was a pagan sacred site before the Christianization of Scandinavia.

I changed it according to your suggestion. I think it reads better now.

Was it a burial site for the pagans?Venicescapes (talk) 10:49, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

It is described as both a burial site and a place for religious rites of some kind. Yakikaki (talk) 12:07, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Much better. The comma after 1860s is not needed.Venicescapes (talk) 12:45, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Removed it.

Infobox

 Done

• Are there any other parameters you could add? It seems underused.

• I consciously tried to keep it slim since I don't want it to take over the article. The main use of it as I see it is that an overview map and an overview picture can be incorporated in the article in a nice way.

It looks odd, especially since there is a whole category, "Administration", with only one item. There are two solutions. (1) You could move that information under "Church of Sweden (Diocese of Visby)". (2) Another idea could be to separate the map from the Infobox. In this case, the Infobox would be much shorter and not push down too far. You could then move the map to the "Location and surrounding" subsection and add an initial sentence stating that The Stånga church is located on the Island of Gotland in Sweden. It lies in the middle of the old cemetery, which is surrounded by a wall.Venicescapes (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, I've gone with alternative 1.

Much better. I would force (Diocese of Visby) onto one line with a break.Venicescapes (talk) 17:23, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Fixed. Yakikaki (talk) 18:05, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The infobox once more

I noticed that the header of the infobox changed colour after it was edited. Apparently, the template has a way of detecting the denomination and changing colour according to this. Green is used by Protestant churches, such as the Church of Sweden. However, this only works if the parameter is only set to "Church of Sweden". So I would suggest removing the "(Diocese of Visby)" from the infobox. It would then make it green as all other Protestant churches. That the church belongs to the Diocese of Visby is evident from both the lead and the last section anyway. What do you think? Yakikaki (talk) 15:25, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I thought you had changed the colour. Green is fine, even if you have to delete the Diocese. To be honest, I was expecting sky blue and yellow for Sweden.

History

 Done

• Archaeological excavations show that a wooden church was built on the site during the early 12th century at the latest.

This is unclear to me. Do you mean that the wooden church may have been even earlier?

Yes. Changed to "during the beginning of the 12th century or possibly earlier".

• In the middle of the same century, construction started of the presently visible tower, which thereby probably replaced an earlier, smaller tower. At the middle of the 14th century, the nave was also demolished to give way for a new and larger Gothic nave. Between 1864 and 1865, the choir and apse were also rebuilt, since they were threatening to collapse due to structural damages.

Consider: ...construction started on the present tower which probably replaced an earlier, smaller tower. In the middle of the 14th century... Also: Between 1864 and 1865, the choir and apse were also rebuilt, since they were at risk of collapsing due to structural damages.

Fixed.

• A new nave was built during the 14th century, by the workshop known by its notname as Egypticus [sv]. The works of the workshop can be traced in several churches on Gotland. At the same time as the nave was enlarged, the tower was also heightened.

Can you reword to avoid works and workshop so close? Perhaps change work to projects?

Perhaps change traced to found?

as should be that

Delete comma after century

Rewrote to "A new nave was built during the 14th century. It was constructed by a workshop that worked on several churches on Gotland and is known by its notname as Egypticus." Better?

• There are also (now damaged) gargoyles immured on each side of the chancel portal.

I would suggest: There are also gargoyles, now damaged, immured on each side of the chancel portal.

Changed.

• Almost identical gargoyles exist in the churches of Dalhem, Gothem and Öja, were they however are placed in the tower.

were should be where

Suggest deleting however

Fixed.

• Most probably they were intended for the tower also in Stånga.

Delete Most

they is ambiguous. You should repeat the gargoyles

Fixed.

• Furthermore, the entire nave appears to have been "wedged in" between the chancel and the tower, implying that a much larger nave was originally planned.

I assume that "wedged in" is a quote. But it's really too short. It baits the question "who said this?". Since you mention a reference, you could avoid the quotation marks or import a larger quotation.

Axed the quotation marks.

• It has therefore been suggested that the plans for the rebuilding of the church originally were much more ambitious, and that the idea was to replace not only the Romanesque nave but also the chancel and possibly the tower and thus in essence build an entirely new, much larger Gothic church.

It has ... been suggested ... by whom? Suggest rewording or specifying.

Consider replacing therefore with consequently

Delete comma after ambitious

There are too many ands. Consider breaking off the last part: ...possibly the tower. This would have amounted to the building of an entirely new, much larger, Gothic church.

Fixed according to your suggestions.

• The monumental sculptures, which now are immured next to the main portal, may have been intended for some other part of the projected church, but since the work had to be cancelled, they were simply put where they could fit in. They may also have been intended for a completely different church, perhaps Källunge Church, on Gotland.

Consider: ...church. But since the work... Also: placed instead of put

Fixed.

• A major renovation was made in 1929–30, led by architect Erik Fant [sv].

Consider undertaken instead of made

Changed.

• In connection with this, the church was examined archaeologically.

Consider In connection with this, archaeological research was conducted on the church.

Done.

• Another large renovation was made 1962–63, this time led by architect Olle Karth [sv]

Consider undertaken instead of made

Changed here as well.

More to follow.Venicescapes (talk) 14:29, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

The History section is coming along. There is a repetition. In the first paragraph you have "In the middle of the 14th century, the nave was demolished to give way for a new and larger Gothic nave." But then you begin the second paragraph with A new nave was built during the 14th century. I recommend that you move "Between 1864 and 1865, the choir and apse were also rebuilt, since they were at risk of collapsing due to structural damages. The congregation chose to rebuild them as closely as possible to their original form, while the old sacristy, north of the chancel, was built to new designs. Therefore only fragments of the Romanesque church remain visible." to the beginning of the third paragraph, followed by Apart from the extensive repairs carried out in the 1860s,.... You should then combine the sentence about the nave with the paragraph about the nave. Everything should then be in chronological order.Venicescapes (talk) 17:21, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, I have done as you advised. Yakikaki (talk) 18:10, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

There are a few final items here.

• Archaeological excavations show that a wooden church was built on the site during the beginning of the 12th century, possibly even earlier.

Replace during with towards or toward (whichever you prefer)

Done.

• In the middle of the 14th century, the nave was demolished to give way for a new and larger Gothic nave.[5] It was constructed by a workshop that worked on several churches on Gotland and is known by its notname as Egypticus [sv].

Replace give with make

Try to avoid two very similar words so close to one another (workshop and worked). You could (1) change worked to was employed or (2) rewrite the sentence to separate the similar words: It was constructed by a workshop, known by its notname as Egypticus [sv], that worked on several churches on Gotland.

Done.

• Between 1864 and 1865, the choir and apse were also rebuilt, since they were at risk of collapsing due to structural damages.

Replace damages with damage

Done.

Avoid false titles. the architect instead of just architect (occurs twice)

Added "the".

Venicescapes (talk) 07:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Exterior

 Done

• The main construction material of Stånga Church is grey limestone, with more finely hewn limestone of differing shades as well as sandstone used in some details.

Do we know where the material came from? Is this a common building material in the area? For Swedish churches?

• Yes, it's common for churches in the area. I chose not to go into detail about it, I'm not sure what that would add.

• Apart from the sculpted elements, the corners and the base of the church, the whole facde is whitewashed

Correct facde

• Added an a.

• The church has only one window facing north, in the apse. The windows of the apse and the chancel are round arched, while the nave has a single, Gothic pointed arch window with tracery and divided into two by a central limestone post.

This was a little confusing to me as written. Perhaps clarify the number of windows, where they are, and their shapes.

• Rewrote this part: "The nave, like many Gotlandic churches, lacks windows facing north. The three windows of the apse and the one in the chancel are round arched, while the nave has a single, Gothic pointed arch window with tracery and divided into two by a central limestone post."

• The tower likewise has a single Gothic window facing south, dating from the re-building during the 14th century. Medieval stained glass almost certainly decorated all the windows of the church originally, but no traces of it survives today.

Subject-verb agreement. Change survives to survive.

• Fixed.

Here again, you mention one window but then refer to openings or windows.

• There is one proper window and two openings of a more ambiguous nature. I removed "windows" from there.

• The tower is one of the tallest on Gotland, comparable only to the towers of Dalhem, Rone and Öja churches. The tower has five storeys inside.

You have two successive sentences that begin with the same article/subject: The tower.... Perhaps The five-storey tower is one of the tallest on Gotland, comparable only to the towers of Dalhem, Rone and Öja churches.

• Great suggestion, fixed.

• The church bells are hanging in the fourth storey.

In this case, hanging is a stative verb. It should be The church bells hang in the fourth storey.

• Changed.

• The door in the main portal of the church is from the 19th century but contains decorative ironwork from an earlier, 14th-century door.

Consider a compound sentence in this case: The door in the main portal of the church is from the 19th century, but it contains decorative ironwork from an earlier, 14th-century door.

• OK, changed.

• Apart from the main portal, the church also has an entrance in the west wall of the tower and one in the south wall of the chancel.

also is already implied in Apart. I would delete also.

• Done.

• The chancel portal dates from 1864 but was made as a copy of an earlier portal on the same spot.

I suggest not mixing (whenever possible) active and passive tenses for the same subject. Also consider location instead of spot. Perhaps The chancel portal, a copy of an earlier portal on the same location, dates from 1864.

• Changed.

I hope this is helpful.Venicescapes (talk) 09:02, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Very, thanks for your comprehensive review.

Main portal

 Done

• The main portal of the church is a pointed-arch portal made of grey limestone.

To avoid repetition, consider The main entry… or The main portal of the church is in the shape of a pointed-arch….

• Went for "The main, pointed-arch portal of the church is made of grey limestone." - OK?

• The rectangular sides of the outer posts of the portal, facing south, contain sculptures depicting what is probably four saints framed by aediculae.

Subject verb agreement. Change is to are.

• Done

I suggest moving framed by aediculae since probably concerns only the identity of the figures. Consider: The rectangular sides of the outer posts of the portal, facing south, contain sculptures, framed by aediculae. These depict what are probably four saints. The last sentence could also be further simplified: These probably depict four saints.

• How about: "The rectangular sides of the outer posts of the portal, facing south, are decorated with sculptures of four standing figures, probably saints. They are framed by aediculae"?

• The decoration of the portal and the adjacent sculptures date from the same time, around 1345–1360, and were probably made by the same workshop, but by different individual sculptors.

Subject verb agreement. Change were to was.

• Done.

Monumental sculptures

 Done

• Together with the decorated portal they constitute "one of the most remarkable ecclesiastical monuments on Gotland".

Who is the author of the quote? If it is the Swedish National Heritage Board, you could combine it with the next sentence. You could also eliminate the quotation marks and paraphrase it.

• The quotation is my translation from the book by Lagerlöf & Svahnberg which is referred to in the inline citation following the quote. It would be very awkward to put both of their names (and possibly titles for clarity's sake) in there just for the sake of the quote, especially as it is directly cited with the inline citation, which states the same thing. I tried re-wording it but it comes very close to the second quote from the National Heritage Board. The only solution I can see if the quote has to be explicitly explained in the text is to cut it out altogether.

• The Swedish National Heritage Board describes it as "one of the most unusual works of art from the Middle Ages in our country".

The pronoun refers to sculptures and should be them.

• Fixed.

• These sculptures appear to be an incomplete set, intended to display the history of the childhood and Passion of Christ. Additional sculptures were most probably intended, but never executed.[25] As noted above, the placement of the sculptures is equally not the one originally intended.

Can you find some suitable synonyms for intended?

• Went for "meant" and "planned".

• From bottom to top, the sculptures depict the Adoration of the Magi, next to a sculpture of Mary and the infant Christ. Above this is a scene depicting the Flagellation of Christ, and the sculpture at the top depicts the Descent from the Cross.

Can you find some suitable synonyms for depict?

• Reworded.

I would also separate the final sentence: the Flagellation of Christ. The sculpture at the top depicts the Descent from the Cross.

Venicescapes (talk) 09:34, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Made a variant of this.

Yakikaki (talk) 12:23, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Interior

 Done

• The nave is divided into four bays, its vaults supported by a single, central pillar.

I think this means that there is a pillar in the middle of the church. Correct? If so, it’s unexpected. Is this usual for Swedish churches? At any rate, to avoid confusion, I would clearly state: The nave is divided into four bays, its vaults supported by a single pillar that is placed in the middle of the church.

• This arrangement is standard on the island, I'd say. I went with your suggestion.

• A wide chancel arch connects it to the chancel and the apse.

Consider divides it from or distinguishes in from instead of connects it to

• OK, changed to divides.

• Among the furnishings, the baptismal font is the oldest, from the late 12th century.

Insert dating from the late 12th century

Done.

• It is a richly decorated font made by the Romanesque sculptor known as Hegvald, and one of the most well-preserved fonts attributed to the sculptor. It is stylistically close to the baptismal fonts in När and Vänge churches.[30] The reliefs on the sides of the basin depict scenes from the New Testament, but also beasts and human figures.

Are the baptismal fonts in När and Vänge churches by Hegvald?

• Yes, added "also made by Hegvald".

• The rood cross of oak wood is also Romanesque in style, and dates from around 1250. It is painted and gilded, and depicts Christ on a ringed cross. The ends of the cross depict the symbols of the Four Evangelists. It is a comparably complete and well-preserved rood cross.[31] It is one of only a few rood crosses on Gotland which is still supported by its original piedestal.

Correct pedestal

• Fixed.

This is jumbled. You’re dealing with different aspects, but they’re not all grouped together.

materials

subject

age and condition

The rood cross of oak wood is also Romanesque in style, and dates from around 1250. It is painted and gilded, and depicts Christ on a ringed cross. The ends of the cross depict the symbols of the Four Evangelists. It is a comparably complete and well-preserved rood cross.[31] It is one of only a few rood crosses on Gotland which is still supported by its original piedestal.

A solution (not the only possibility) could be: The Romanesque rood cross is in oak and is painted and gilded. Dating to around 1250, it is a comparably complete and well-preserved, one of only a few rood crosses on Gotland that is still supported by its original pedestal. It depicts Christ on a ringed cross, the ends of which have the symbols of the Four Evangelists.

• OK, changed to something similar to your suggestion.

Consider linking the symbols of the Four Evangelists directly to the subsection Symbols on the page Four Evangelists.

• Linked.

• The altarpiece is Baroque in style, made during the late 17th century in Burgsvik on Gotland. A 15th-century wooden crucifix has been incorporated into the altarpiece.

I would recommend not mixing (whenever possible) active and passive verbs and tenses. Also, I would recommend a chronological approach. A solution could be A 15th-century wooden crucifix has been incorporated into the Baroque altarpiece which was made in the late 17th century in Burgsvik on Gotland.

• OK, changed.

Venicescapes (talk) 10:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I did some minor copy editing (it was faster). Change at will. In the history section, can you add reference at the end of In the middle of the same century, construction started on the present tower which probably replaced an earlier, smaller tower.? Is very evident when a paragraph ends without a note.

I agree with your edits, they improve the article. I added the reference. Yakikaki (talk) 15:12, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I'd like to take a final look at the lead.Venicescapes (talk) 14:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Later, or tomorrow, I'll take a final look. I'm glad you're happy. I was concerned that I was being overly picky.Venicescapes (talk) 15:35, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again! I really do appreciate it, it makes the article better.

I have a question. one of only a few rood crosses on Gotland that is still supported by its original pedestal. Do the few other crosses also have their pedestals?Venicescapes (talk) 17:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

No, that's not what I wanted to convey. I changed it to: "Dating to around 1250, it is a comparably complete and well-preserved, and is still supported by its original pedestal, which is unusual".

Almost done

Good morning, I did some copy editing. Please check and approve or modify. I had to change the sentence: There is also an iron rod attached to the door, a medieval measuring instrument with an inscription declaring that it is the correct length of one ell because the appositive (a medieval measuring instrument...) did not refer to the closest relative noun (door).

Please confirm that the four single windows in the tower are above (and not on) the fifth level.Venicescapes (talk) 10:29, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Looks good, I have no objections. I rewrote the sentence about the windows after checking the floor plan, it was ambiguously written in the source. Yakikaki (talk) 12:36, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

There remain two things. The section: Beginning with the fourth storey, there are bell openings. There are two of these on each side of the tower on the fourth floor. The fifth floor has two rows of bell openings: two on each side above the openings on the fourth floor, and above these a single opening in each direction. is still a little confusing. I recommend: Beginning with the fourth storey, there are bell openings. There are two of these on each side of the tower on the fourth floor and similarly on the fifth floor. Finally, above each of these, there is a single opening, one in each direction.

The brackets in "one of the most unusual works of art from the Middle Ages in Sweden" were not intended as a link. They indicate that the wording of a quote has been altered to eliminate ambiguity. So "one of the most unusual works of art from the Middle Ages in [Sweden]" would signify that the original quote does not say Sweden but another expression with the same, but a more ambiguous, meaning. In this case, the original quote says our country. You can return to our country if you prefer, but it would be better to eliminate the ambiguity.Venicescapes (talk) 13:15, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

OK, changed.

CONGRATULATIONS and best regards.Venicescapes (talk) 13:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

THANK YOU for taking the time and effort to make a comprehensive review! I think the article gained a lot from it and I have also learnt quite a bit. Best regards, Yakikaki (talk) 13:25, 2 August 2020 (UTC)