Talk:Japan/Archive 6

Japanese VS Korean controversy

Japan often receives Korean's complaint. As a result, this article often becomes an edit battle. The controversy part of the Japanese and the South Korean was brought together.

China

"Japan adopted many Chinese customs and institutions beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries." The Japanese and the Korean agree to this article.

Japan adopted many Korean Custom

"Japan adopted many Korean customs and institutions beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries."

I think that it should describe only China. China can be easily found in our custom. But we do not feel Korea in our custom.　--HaradaSanosuke 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)　

Baekje

Japnese
This is a very insincere content. The foreign country that contributed to a lot of Japan is denied. And, information written here is not correct. Or, the exaggeration is large. Please delete the full text in this part. Even if this part doesn't exist, it can explain Japan. It is also unnatural that this article is put after the story in the Asuka age. 　--HaradaSanosuke 17:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Korean
I am getting the impression that the Japanese are total ingrates. Please prove me wrong by changing your attitude on Korean contributions to Japanese civilization. Baekje played a key role in Japan's development. If not for Baekje, Japan would likely remain a backwater in Asia for many more centuries and become probably something of a mix of Mongolian and Southeast Asian cultures. --Sir Edgar 00:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Tendai Buddism

Korean
Not significant enough to put into main article. [1]

Society of Jesus

Korean

• please stop mentioning the introduction of Christianity in Japan by the Society of Jesus in the 16th century in Japan's introductory paragraph when it is really a minor fact.--Sir Edgar 04:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• Jpan is not a Christian nation and Christianity has not played a significant part in its history. --Sir Edgar 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Japan

• Sakoku greatly influenced a Japanese national character. This event is very important. And, the Christianity caused Sakoku. Many Daimyo turned Christian. Therefore, the Tokugawa shogunate feared the authority of the Christianity. The Tokugawa shogunate took the policy of managing all the religions by the influence of the revolt of the Christianity. As a result, the religion of Japan stagnated. --Kamosuke 21:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
• However the influence of introduced Christianity is not negligible since 16th century. Some of historical events from the Sengoku period to the early part of the Edo period are related to Christianity. As another example, the first official Japanese emmissary to Europe (see Mancio Ito), was dispatched by Christian. Reito-maguro 14:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Rangaku

Korean

• Not many people have heard of rangaku.--Sir Edgar 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
• The study of Dutch learning did not have a major effect on Japan at the time. It is only with the Meiji Restoration that we see dramatic Westernization in the country. Anyhow, Rangaku was not deleted, but moved to the History section. --Sir Edgar 00:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Japanese

• Rangaku was an only means to acquire the knowledge of Europe. Ranagaku carried out the big contribution to modernization of Japan. Hiraga Gennai and Takano Choei are famous Rangaku scholars. --Kamosuke 21:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Others

• Western influence is maintined through Rangaku studies and direct contact with Westerners at Nagasaki. Meiji Restoration (approx. 1869) opens the door further to Western influence. --Endroit 17:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Cultural interchange between Korea and Japan

Japan
At first, I would like to say that I am very pleased to read the many briliant articles on Japan in English Wikipedia. However, I felt some out of place with some points, especially on the cultural relationships between Korea and Japan. In fact, Japan adopted many Chinese culture. And, there were lots of cultural interchanges between Korea and Japan. For example, Kofun,Magatama and so on. However curiously, according to the context of this artcle, there is no cultural interchange between Korea and Japan. This is really strange. At least, Japan had made choice among Korean culture, AND, Korea had made choice among Japanese culture. Especially, resolved DNA of rice crop is originated in Japan, not Korea. This mean Korea adopted japanese style rice field. At least, we should write the cultural interchange between Korea and Japan, and it is not unilateral adoption. If you need some evidences, please read the japanese wikipedian article and the citations. Thank you.-Questionfromjapan

Korean
Japan did not really have "cultural exchanges" with Korea and China. It imported culture and institutions from these countries. Buddhism was not "obtained", it was exported. --Sir Edgar 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Rule

I think that I have been generated because "Edit battle" doesn't have the rule. First,　Could the Japanese and the South Korean agree on the rule?

Electrical power in Japan

I think it'd be good to point out somewhere in the article the mixed use of 50Hz and 60Hz electrical power in Japan, as it's the only country (to my knowledge) that has such a combination. Where should it be placed in the article, though, if it should be at all? --moof 00:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, this is something I didnt know. Good contribution.

It might be a good idea to collect several categories of information in an infrastructure section in Economy. Fg2 06:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm inclined to either delete this trivia or more likely modify it, as the Philippines has a curious mix of electrical power as well...most of the country is on 240 V/50 Hz, while parts of Baguio City have 120 V/60 Hz, due to the former presence of an American army base there. Note that I may have switched the 50/60 Hz quotes by mistake. --Tachikoma 15:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Immigration

"Immigration, however, is not publicly popular as recent increased crime rates are often attributed to foreigners living in Japan." The Japanese are not deeply opposed to immigration because of a few news reports about criminal foreigners. Immigration, is simply not an option according to the Japanese. The newspaper stories are probably true, considering that as Japan has the lowest crime rate, prima facie foreigners (if representative of their nation) will commit more crime. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.136.21 (talk • contribs) .

Doesn't the data show that foreigners commit crimes at a similar rate to Japanese?--Sir Edgar 01:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's hard to tell. Some factors here include:

• The numbers look higher, but a lot of those "crimes" committed by foreigners are visa violations.
• When you consider the more marginalized economic and social status of these foreigners, it makes sense that many might resort to crime. Japan is a country built upon relationships; if you aren't well-connected, there's no way you're getting ahead.

Poverty doesn't cause crime, it correlates with it. Different groups historically have had different propensities for crime. (For instance, I don't recall poor Jews in the lower East Side of Manhattan of the early 20th century as being especially violent. They were discriminated against and hated as much as anybody.) Why, I do not know. But that is the fact. The Japanese are among the least violent, along with Koreans, Taiwanese and Chinese. Besides, even if your implications are correct, foreigners commit more crime.

• A lot of Japanese crime is conducted by gangsters who the police don't mess with.

Evidence?

• Criminal justice also works differently in Japan. If you're arrested, you don't get due process. You either confess and get out with a light punishment (maybe just an apology), or you don't confess and you stay in police custody for three weeks while they try to abuse a confession out of you. If I were arrested in this country, I would probably rather confess and be deported than languish in a cell forever without even the chance to call a lawyer. And that's what many foreigners do.

So that what, foreigner crimes will be inflated?

This is original research so it's not worth putting in the article, but it's basically the way things are... - Sekicho 10:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

For this original research, list the sources please. Thank you 04:53, 6 June 2006 (UTC)collective concious My point was that their opposition to immigration is deeper than reaction to some negative reports of foreigners in the press.

Literature

Manga has been growing in the us dew to anime on cortoon network and other TV stations. It seem to start with the poke'mon revilution and grew with Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. My favorit has to be Tsubasa, a anime series by Clamb. for more info you can contact me at Pez5600@AOL.com

references

How do you add references. You can find in any encyclopedia information about Koreans migrating to Japan with new technology but when I tried to cite it, I can't get it to come up correctly. On one of the sections it wanted you to add a citation for Koreans migrating to Japan with new technology. You can reference it with encarta or encyclopedia Brit. May be some on else can add it.

                          Vex

Enclose the cited material in the format <ref>CITED MATERIAL</ref> at the place you want to cite and it will appear under the "References/notes" section at the bottom. Skinnyweed 18:14, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Japan adopted Korean culture?

Ok, before an edit war starts up, maybe we should come to a concensus on whether or not to state that Japan historically adopted Korean culture. Hong Qi Gong 14:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

If anyone is interested, please scroll up (in this Talk page) and read Citation requested for "...the Chinese writing system, Buddhism, advanced pottery, ceremonial burial, and other aspects of culture were introduced by aristocrats, artisans, scholars, and monks from Baekje, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea" where this was discussed just last month. Thanks! Tortfeasor 16:27, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with it generally. But it must say that most of them are chinese culture, and Baekje (and two other Kingdoms of south Korea, in 5th )were under influence of Japan especially about military affairs. So Korea adopted Japanese tombs(a `keyhole-shaped' tumuluss) for their kings. It can't be said that Japan adpoted Korean culture one-sidedly and it can't be said Japan adopted 'Korean' culture cleary. The things you listed are recognized to have origens in china commonly and so it is odd to say Japan adopted Korean culture. That'all.Bright888 01:58, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

If you study the history between Korean and Japan, alot of historians are saying that Yamato might be of Baekje origin and Japan was not a military influence but a military expedition sent out by Baekje. This gave the 2 groups huge military ties which were more like brother nations. Yamato's high ranking officials were to have Korean bloodlines. That was the reason/explaination why Korean tombs were carbon dated to be older, which Japanese tomb experts had no explanation for. Also, the other weird incident was Japan refusing to show the world the artifacts dug up when they opened their imperial tombs. This secrecy made historians from Austrialia and other nations believe there were evidence of Korean lineage in the tombs. Until these excavations are made public no one will really know whats going on.

I have never read your huge Baekje hypothesis without in Korean homepages. Please show me some name of the writers. The record of the fact that Japan sent army to korean peninsula are in Gwanggaeto SteleSamguk Sagi. These historical materials are verified recently. And I didn't write only tombs but Japanese tombs(a `keyhole-shaped' tumuluss). The type of tombs were older in Japan.Bright888

The study book "PEAKCHE OF KOREA AND THE ORIGIN OF YAMATO JAPAN" are what explains Baekje being the origin to Japan. (Samguk Sagi only talks about Koreans going to Japan with new technology and Koreans invading Kyushu.) Also if you study the Gwanggaeto Stele writings. Its how you read it what perspective are you looking at the paragraph. If you believe that Yamato is not part of Korea then the paragraph reads that Yamato sends an army across the sea which would be Korea or China and travels up the land. Also you can only interpert that after you fill in various blank or worn out areas of the stele and take in the lime powder altered portions by the Japanese historian who had posession of it in the 1900s. There are no records in Korean or Chinsese historical documents that Japan invaded or sent an army at during these centuries. There are no archeological evidence either of a massive military landing in Korea or China by Japan at this time. If you read this paragraph under the assumption that Yamato was of Korean origin with out making assumptions on the blank or worn out portions of the stele and exclude the altered portions, then it becomes Koguryo sends an expedition across the sea to Japan and go up that land. The only land across the sea to Korea would be Japan. (Kyushu to Honshu) There is more evidence of this happening than the other way around. That was also the reason why people thought these two nations seemed to have a close relationship later in life and Japan helped when Baekje was losing a war with Korguryo. Remember the tombs found in the 1980s in Korea were older than in Japan.

The study book "PEAKCHE OF KOREA AND THE ORIGIN OF YAMATO JAPAN" ? Who wrote it? And where can we read or buy the book? If the book realy exists, please tell us it.Bright888 23:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

This book is used in most universities as the gold standard theory, it is required or recommended reading for upper level East Asian studies courses.

I think that book is out of standard theory. I suggest you to read other books.

If you read this article there is a part that talks about Japan adopting alot of European and American customs from the 1800's but that too is a little tricky. You can block the Americans from this sentence cause most of the American customs are European. Even though Koreans brought Chinese customs and introduced them to Japan in a modified form every one agrees it is definately Chinese culture. With that same logic if you are going to exclude Koreans in the 5th century you must exclude Americans in the 1800s.

We say that American life style which maintained by mass production are American customs. This system change the world after World War II. Please show us Korean generated coustoms in Japan. Bright888 13:42, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Mass production was first initiated by the Danish. Then the British. Of course because these countries are smaller than the US, it wasn't as big. Its like comparing Chinese mass production capacity with a small country but still of European origin. You know all the books about Japanese culture that distinguish itself from the Chinese culture, all those Japanese idiocyncracies, well those same idiocyncracies exist in Korea. They are minor adjustments to Chinese culture, but that is why Japan has these differences because they weren't directly introduced by the Chinese. The odd 4 layer heirarcy system, constantly bowing which is Chinese in origin but they are not done constantly and to the extent that Japan does it. And the Chinese don't have 4 layer respect heirarcy in their culture.

In Japan chinese cultures are living in today, but for 4 layer system?(12 layer?) was tarmnateded. Of cause I know minor changes of Chinese culture by Korean were adopted, but generally it wasn't be written as "Korean" culture for no reason to tell apart form other countrys like Balhae. Japan sent Balhae envoy sometimes. America made Pax Americana by her systems and cultures, so we need to write it. Why Korean Minor chagese must be written especally? Bright888 15:19, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

No one disputes that Korea introduced the Chinese culture to Japan in the 5th and 6th cent. so why don't we just write it like that. If you don't mention Korea at all then you will have a difficult time understanding why Japan has certian idiocyncracies. Then you could argue that Japan was unique from China, but if you take in to account the modified behavior in Korea you can see the transition from China to Korea to Japan. You can get a better understanding of how certain behavior or rituals came about in Japan. Wasn't Balhae the remains of Koguryo which would mean Korean culture.

You and pro-korean men are always confusing to use Korea as Koguryo,Paekche,and all countris in the Korean peninsula. But these countris had different lageage and races we knew. Ainu country was not Japan so we say that Japan(Yamato regime) fought Ainu. Why do you write Korea not Paekche? I think you pro-korean men have strong eager to have long history to Japan. But it is unreasonable to say all countries in Korean peninsula as Korea. Ainu is Ainu and Ryukyu is Ryukyu so Paekche is Paekche. And in 5th cetury south korean peniciula were under Japanese influeces and Japan sent Army to there to fight with Paekche. In those conditions we can't say Korea introduced the Chinese culture. Write exactly what it was.Bright888 18:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Koguryo, Paekche, Kaya, Balhae and Shilla all merged to become Korea, but I agree with that statement that we need to be specific. That is why when the original sentences about Paekche bringing Chinese systems to Japan were changed, to technology from the mainland or from China, People on this site kept changing it to add Korea or more specifically Shilla, Paekche and Korguryo. Not only that people above have documented numberous citations and exerpts from historical scrolls. In addition, there is more evidence of Paekche being a father figure to Japan and was influencing Japan. Please read the citations you even mentioned above which seem to show yamato was a colony or expedition force from Paekche and that was why they were so close in relation which means they had no military influence cause they were related. Also the high ranking Yamato officials seem to be of Korean lineage. You need to be consistent if you want specifics for Korea, then you will have to do the same for China. You need to name the Kingdom or dynasty of China. Some dynasties were either conquered and merged or were of different origin Manchu, Mongo etc. Also again using the term America to refer to European/Roman culture should be specified if you are doing the same with Korea and China. Please read the citations below looks like some one added more documentation for Koreans helping Japan develop its culture. Also read the citations above. This arguement was concluded a month ago by other people.

China is used as the name of a civilization. Like Roma ,Europe, America. So we say Japan adopted Chinese systems, and not say Korean systems. I think you have a desire to think Korea as a indepndent civilazation. But it is unnatural.

Please don't ignore the citations I have already posted above. And please take the time to read these as well. Finally, if you could show some citations about your point of view, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Sue ware introduced from southern Korea. [2].

Gaya, Silla, and possibly Baekje pottery styles were imitated by the people of Japan. [3].

“ca. late 300s–early 400s A.D. High-fired gray pottery is introduced from Kaya Federation in Korea to Japan, where it is initially produced by or with the help of immigrant potters for the ruling elite. This ware, known in Japan as Sueki, is made using the potter's wheel and fired in a single tunnel-like chamber kiln (anagama) built along a hill slope and able to reach 1100–1200ºC, temperatures high enough for stoneware and porcelain.” [4].

Korean style Sue ware was made in the Kyoto area during the tumulus period. [5].

Seto-ware, inspired by Korea [6].

Local handicrafts evolved from both Chinese and Korean prototypes. [7].

Korean potters instrumental in training Japanese in continental pottery styles and starting Japan’s porcelain industry. [8].

Some Japanese castles incorporated Korean castle architecture. [9].

Satsuma pottery was Korean inspired. [10].

Early Japanese temple compounds were based on Paekche prototypes from the sixth and seventh century. [11].

Asuka period art had a Korean influence. [12].

Green-ash glazed stoneware made during the Hakuho-Nara periods were inspired by Chinese and Korean works. [13].

There was a Korean influence on Japanese culture and dress. [14]. The paintings at the Takamatsu tomb show woman dressed in clothing reminiscent of Korean dress [15].

The Hata clan was from Silla. [16].

Nyorin Kannon, Miroku Bodhisattva, and the image at the Chugu-ji nunnery all show the influence of Korean art of that day.

Tori Busshi, the grandson of Korean immigrants. [17].

Japanese tomb painting inspired by Chinese and Korean culture. [18].

Yumendo Kannon, has Korean influences. [19].

New type tombs in the seventh century are allied with well-established Korean customs and distantly related to Chinese ones. [20].

The kondo of Horyu-ji temple has paintings from Korean and Chinese prototypes. [21]. In the Kinto hall, a Koguryeo monk painted murals. [22]. The temple itself resembles ones excavated in the former Koguryeo kingdom and follows Paekche layouts. [23]. The pagoda is Tang style or Korean styles.

Korean-style swords made in the southern Yamato basin in the fifth century CE. [24].

Virtually all early grave goods have Korean or Chinese prototypes. [25].

The Be system, adopted from Paekche, that contributed most significantly to centralization of the Yamato polity in the sixth century. [26].

Fifth century tombs in Japan follow the Paekche-style corridor tombs. [27].

Japan absorbed and imitated centralized government institutions in Korea and espcially China. [28]. Emperor Tenji focused on establishing new systems from the Chinese and Korean models. [29].

Tortfeasor 18:45, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

A while back I wrote a paragraph shorter than this with assertions and their sources. It was erased because it took up too much room on the discussion board. Now I see this paragraph by you and ask why is your paragraph allowed to remain? Could it be that mine was erased because people didnt like the message or content regardles if it was supported by facts? I pay very close attention to things with a a meticulous nature. It's hard to scrub truth away. 04:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)collective concious

P.S. thanks for the copy to my collection

隋書『新羅、百濟皆以倭為大國，多珍物，並敬仰之，恒通使往來』 / 広開土王碑『百残新羅舊是属民由来朝貢而倭以辛卯年来渡(海)破百残■■新羅以為臣民』 Both of history materials point out that Japan was great and advanced country than Korea. They was written by not Japan but China and Korea.100doors 02:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Cultural interchange between Korea and Japan

At first, I would like to say that I am very pleased to read the many briliant articles on Japan in English Wikipedia. However, I felt some out of place with some points, especially on the cultural relationships between Korea and Japan. In fact, Japan adopted many Chinese culture. And, there were lots of cultural interchanges between Korea and Japan. For example, Kofun,Magatama and so on. However curiously, according to the context of this artcle, there is no cultural interchange between Korea and Japan. This is really strange. At least, Japan had made choice among Korean culture, AND, Korea had made choice among Japanese culture. Especially, resolved DNA of rice crop is originated in Japan, not Korea. This mean Korea adopted japanese style rice field. At least, we should write the cultural interchange between Korea and Japan, and it is not unilateral adoption. If you need some evidences, please read the japanese wikipedian article and the citations. Thank you.-Questionfromjapan 09:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Your logic is in error cause Korea had these technology before Japan. You need to explain that first before you can state any of the above comments.(UTC)

Magatam in Japan 1000 BC, Magatama in Korea Bronze age Neolithic age that would be 3500 BC.

Would you mind checking Kofunetc.? The citation you requested is in the page.-Questionfromjapan 09:21, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I read the Kofun site. It states there are arguments on whether Gaya took it to Japan or was originally Japans. We know there are arguments, we also know the tombs in Korea are carbon dated to be older. In archeology they were arguing that if you look at the progression of tombs in Korea, how it started out as non standardized sporadic and carbon dated older. Then as time went on it started to become more stardardized and eventually everyone followed the same tomb format. In Japan their appears to be no progession but a fairly constant format which appears suddenly. That is why most historians say the origin was probably Korea. Its like if you were to look at the development of airplanes, if one culture has multiple designs and you see a simpler version a glider, single engine propeller, a double engine, then a Jet, a 777 airplane etc...and then eventually you see a fairly constant design all carbon dated to be older. But before that you found another culture close by who had 767, 747, 777 airplanes in a specific color all over that country which was carbon dated to be younger. What would you conclude in this situation? Any ways I thought the person above was talking about rice. Which again is China to Korea then to Japan.

Multi-ID Vandal

As a non-editor at this page who has been watching the goings-on here today, I may be saying something that the regulars are already aware of. It seems fairly clear to me-- due to the nature of the edits, and the English style used-- that what you've got is one vandal with multiple IDs who also edits anonymously. Whether he's doing this to avoid a 3RR-block, or to make it appear that his edits have more support than they do, I don't know. And what can be done about it? Again, I don't know. Just thought I'd point out the obvious. -- Rizzleboffin 00:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've been watching it (but not reverting again so I don't break 3RR). I reported all four of them to be checked. Now we're just waiting on the outcome of that. In my mind, there's no doubt they are either a) all the same person using multiple accounts, or b)multiple users working in concert to remove NPOV from the article. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 00:28, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked the socks indefinitely, and Bright888 for one week. Henry^Flower 17:27, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

User:61.35.26.163, sockpuppet? Similarities with Bright888 include the use of Battle of Baekgang, sloppy use of historical facts, bad spelling. Tortfeasor 23:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked for one week. Henry^Flower 06:10, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand entirely why it is pertinent for Wikipedia and others to secure its platform. However, I think that not all the blame should go to the vandalists. Most of the blame should but not all. I remember my battles and arguments with others within the Wikipedia community. They were both frustrating and enjoyable. Yet, the single most important fact I would like all of you and others to realize is that some amongst us Wikipedia enthusiasts may have exacerbated the vandalism or maybe even have made it up to prevent the sanctity of an authorship. I remember recently that I wrote a paragraph with unpopular viewpoints and original work. My thesis and dissertation was on unpopular and original works which was acceptable by an academic committee, yet I received a lot of opposition from some editors here at Wikipedia. This oposition included erasing my contributions because they took up too much space rather than attack my premises for my argument. Today, as I have a break from scholarly responsibilities, I see that Toftsear has written a larger paragraph than the one I wrote which was erased. I understand that the majority (those in power) has the interest of perpetuating their acme, yet fairness can alleviate or deter some of the vandalism. I was wrongfully accused of vandalism. An author or two stated that I wrote in a manner which was inappropriate, eyt the inappropriate response I wrote were in reply to other responses that were equally and sometimes worse in decorum. This type of behavior in which I have experienced was unfair and I hope no one else goes through the same. As you take steps to prevent vandalism within Wikipedia, remind yourselves of what I have mentioned because had it not been for my maturity, patience, and peers, I may have been a vandal. Regardless, my unfortunate experiences here at Wikipedia have not allayed my faith in its potential for the future, however, it has shown me that there are a few amongst us erudites of history specifically on this platform that believe in sophistry and unfair tactics to secure their own interest. Hence, in the long run create more vandals than they are removing. 05:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)collective concious

Which article is good?

Let's compare it.

The first version
Historically, Japan adopted many Chinese customs and institutions beginning in the 7th and 8th centuries. From the 12th century to the mid-1800s, Japan was a feudal country led by clans of warriors. After the Meiji Restoration of 1868, Japan adopted many European and American customs and institutions. Its culture today is a mixture of these influences.

Edger Version　
Historically, Japan adopted many Chinese and Korean customs and institutions, beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries. From the 12th century to the mid-1800s, Japan was a feudal country led by clans of warriors known as the samurai. After the Meiji Restoration of 1868, Japan adopted many European and American customs and institutions. Its culture today is a mixture of these influences along with traditional Japanese culture.

Edger Version 2
Historically, Japan adopted many Chinese and Korean customs and institutions beginning in the 5th and 6th centuries. During the 8th century, the emergence of an indigenous culture sparked a "golden age" in Japan called the Heian period, characterized by aesthetic refinement and aristocratic sophistication. The arts and literature flourished, culminating in Lady Murasaki's writing of The Tale of Genji, the world's first known novel.

Kamosuke Version
Historically, Japan had cultural exchanges with Korea and China.
Historically, since the 5th and 6th centuries, Japan adopted many institutions from China by learning them both directly and through Korea. Japan sent the Imperial embassies to China to China until the 9th century. And a Chinese system and Buddhism were obtained. From the 12th century to the mid-1800s, Japan was a feudal country led by clans of warriors known as the samurai. The Christianity and the culture of Europe were introduced by Society of Jesus in 16th century. Since Edo period, The Christianity was suppressed by sakoku. However, the culture of Europe (called Rangaku) kept being introduced by the Netherlands. After the Meiji Restoration of 1868, Japan adopted many European and American customs and institutions. Its culture today is a mixture of these influences along with traditional Japanese culture.

---

The second is better. The first uses vague phrases that blur the reality. Japan did not really have "cultural exchanges" with Korea and China. It imported culture and institutions from these countries. Buddhism was not "obtained", it was exported. Japan is not a Christian nation and Christianity has not played a significant part in its history. Not many people have heard of rangaku.--Sir Edgar 23:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Rangaku means the study of westurn culture or science in Japanese language of the Edo period (see linked article). "Ran" and "Gaku" mean "Netherlands" and "study", respectively. In the Edo period, Japan closes itself and do a trade only with Netherlands. As a result, Japanese studies western culture and so on only through books provided by Netherlands. This is the origin of the term, "Rungaku". The term is popular in education of Japan, but I don't know situations in other countries. Reito-maguro 15:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Is Japan a Christian nation? Is Christianity an important part of its history?

The answer is no. So, please stop mentioning the introduction of Christianity in Japan by the Society of Jesus in the 16th century in Japan's introductory paragraph when it is really a minor fact.--Sir Edgar 04:58, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

In Japan it is widely thought that the introduction of Christianity is important, because it is one of western cultures introduced in the first contact between Japanease and Occidental. As one of histrical facts related to Christianity, the rebellion against Tokugawa Shogunate by Japanese Christian, Shimabara Rebellion, is well known. Reito-maguro 14:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Historically Japan isn't a Christian nation as answered by Sir Edgar. However the influence of introduced Christianity is not negligible since 16th century. Some of historical events from the Sengoku period to the early part of the Edo period are related to Christianity. As another example, the first official Japanese emmissary to Europe (see Mancio Ito), was dispatched by Christian. Reito-maguro 14:57, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Although the Christianity part is an interesting information and could be adopted in some Japan-related articles, the versions endorsed by Kamosuke deliberately attempts to erase the importation of Korean culture by just outright saying that Korea just served as a conduit of Chinese culture, which is not true (as seen in other articles and sources). The Christianity bit can be included here or Religion on Japan page, or wherever the editors deem it. While I do understand Kamosuke's argument on "Japan exported the cartoon to the United States by way of South Korea" bit, Korean culture, anyone who've read other articles and sources based on this can safely know that just saying that Korea was a conduit for Chinese culture for Japan is saying that Rome was a conduit for Ancient Greek culture for other European nations. Deiaemeth 06:39, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Different examples, Korean culture developed from influence from Chinese culture and remained a seperate one. While you can argue that Korean culture adopted aspects of Chinese culture (which is true), that does not deem that Korea just served as a conduit for Chinese culture. Your argument would mean that "Ancient Greek exported culture to other European proto-nations by way of Rome", which is not true as well. Deiaemeth 06:41, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Deiaemeth.　Rome and Korea have a quite different background. Greek civilization was customized and Rome was expanded to the world. Kumarajiva translated the text of India into Chinese. And, the text was spread to Japan next to Korea. In a word, Rome is not Korea but China. --Kamosuke 07:14, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not directly comparing to Rome as Korea. In a word, I'm saying that both countries had influences from other cultures, but developed as a seperate culture. Your version just omits any references from transition of culture from Korea, which is not the case. When you omit any reference to Korean culture, that is synonymous to claiming that French is not a Romantic language but a sublanguage of Ancient Greek. Deiaemeth 08:05, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

For instance, please explain how South Korea developed the translation result of Kumarajiva. --Kamosuke 08:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Then should Korea only talk about India when referring Buddhism? It was altered in China then sent to Korea, just like it was altered in Korea before being sent to Japan.

---

I support No.3. The statement "Japan adopted many Chinese and Korean customs and institutions" is also vague; it blurs the fact that the institution Japan's court "adropted" was the Chinese version, which is a crucial fact in understanding many aspects of the institutions established in Japan, e.g., why the term Tenno (translated as "Emperor", as in China) was introduced in place of a word meaning a king (as in Korea). Moreover, the Buddhism that Korea sent Japan is the one that Chinese's Kumarajiva translated.　

If the Japanese Manga is sent to the United States by way of the Pusan airport, Do you insist, "Korea and Japan exported the cartoon to the United States. "?　I insist, "Japan exported the cartoon to the United States by way of South Korea".

But if the Manga is altered by Koreans and turned into a live action Movie instead of a cartoon with Korean movie stars in it, then sent to the US via Pusan airport. What would it be considered then? Would it be a Japanese export exclusively or something totally different? The Koreans don't consider Budhism to be Indian only. They always include China.

About 50 years after the introduction of Christianity, many people in Japan became Christian even among daimyos, and its influece, both cultural and political, was quite strong especially in the western Japan. It is certainly true that Christianity was suppressed during the Edo period, and it is probably true that Christianity, as religion, has not played a major role in Japan's history thereafter (although it did before the suppression); but The impact of the Christianity made Japan select the system of Sakoku. (Sakoku is one of the most important events in the history of Japan. )and the culture introduced in the late 16th century by Western people was not limited to religion. The knowledge of the Western was called Rangaku, and played a significant part in the culture of the Edo period　--Kamosuke 05:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Kamosuke on some points, however I still prefer Sir Edgar's version over Kamosuke's although not perfect. I request Sir Edgar's version to be modified to mention Western influence before and under the sakoku policy.

Here are my thoughts in detail.... I agree with Kamosuke that China is similar to the Roman Empire, with respect to culture, politics, literature, arts, and religion, as well as its influence towards its surrounding nations. More specifically, Luoyang (洛陽) and Chang'an (長安) are similar to Ancient Rome. However, you cannot eliminate the mention of Korea. From the dawn of historically recorded Japan, until the fall of Baekje (approx. 660), Korean influence was greater than Chinese influence. Then there follows a period in Japan where Korean immigrant families remain important while Japan looks to China for influence; but eventually these families assimilate and dissolve into Japan. A period of greater Chinese influence continues for at least 9 centuries. However after Japan is discovered by Europe (approx. 1550), Japan chooses a policy of sakoku (from 1641), where all foreign trade is conducted through Nagasaki. Western influence is maintined through Rangaku studies and direct contact with Westerners at Nagasaki. Meiji Restoration (approx. 1869) opens the door further to Western influence.

Let me stress that Sir Edgar's wording is more elegant and beautiful. However, it needs a little more detail, particularly regarding Western influence before and under the sakoku policy.--Endroit 17:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that the relation Korea and Japan is not "Greece and Rome" but "Athens and Spapta". Athens and Spapta obtained the culture of the Orient at the same time. To similar, Japan and Korea obtained a Chinese culture at the same time. I am not excluding South Korea. I used word "Exchange" first. "Historically, Japan had cultural exchanges with Korea and China." However, Japan exchanged the culture with Korea. However, Japan is not exporting the culture to China. (Thank you for advice, Sir Edger. ) Especially, the southern part of a Korean peninsula received the influence power of strong Japan. Therefore, I corrected it. "Historically, since the 5th and 6th centuries, Japan adopted many institutions from China by learning them both directly and through Korea. " I think that this expression is more accurate. Could you explain problems of these sentences more in detail.

The two countries didn't recieve culture at the same time there is close to a 500 year difference. It is not like Atens and Sparta. The transition is from China to Korea then to Japan.

Back in the 4th century it wasn't easy for people to travel. Especially by sea. They didn't have 777 airplanes, or cruise ships. That is why the dispersion of culture and technology is from China to Korea then after a certian lag time it went to Japan.

Sakoku greatly influenced a Japanese national character. This event is very important. And, the Christianity caused Sakoku. Many Daimyo turned Christian. Therefore, the Tokugawa shogunate feared the authority of the Christianity. The Tokugawa shogunate took the policy of managing all the religions by the influence of the revolt of the Christianity. As a result, the religion of Japan stagnated. Rangaku was an only means to acquire the knowledge of Europe. Ranagaku carried out the big contribution to modernization of Japan. Hiraga Gennai and Takano Choei are famous Rangaku scholars. --Kamosuke 21:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

If you think that culture is exchanged between Japan and Korea, it may be better to add the exchange betweeb Japan and Korea to your version. Do some sources show such an exchange? Reito-maguro 06:48, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Japanese influence in ancient Korea through a supposed Mimana state have been disregarded by most non-Japanese historians.

As for analogies, I would compare China to Rome, Korea to France, and Japan to Britain as more accurate instead.

Kamosuke, please try to contribute rather than be destructive with the article. Your mention of The Tale of Genji was a very good thing that we all forgot about. But you need to put it in the right section. Thanks.--Sir Edgar 00:26, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Mr.Edger,　I point out your two wrong attitudes.

• 1　You should not slander the user of an opinion different from you. Please try to be a bit more careful when insisting on your opinion. "vandalism" or "destructive " do not become evidences that affirm your opinion. Rangaku and Society of Jesus are important elements of the history of Japan. It is not destruction to add the information.
• 2　Please write concrete information on "Most non-Japanese historians". (I think that "Most" is your conviction.)　And, the attitude to which the opinion of the historian in Japan is not esteemed is wrong. First of all, you must introduce all of historians' insistences other than the Japanese to prove own remark. If you cannot do it, the expression of "Most" should not be used. It is POV.--HaradaSanosuke 15:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, I have a wish to you. Please make the topic of Sport briefer. (Please give explanation of Sumo briefer.)

You know, I have done so much work on this article that I feel that your criticisms against me are really inconsiderate. Why don't YOU try to actually contribute to the article, instead of destroying it? YOU can edit the Sports section and give a more concise explanation of sumo.--Sir Edgar 00:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Japanese opinion

Hello. I am Japanese. I say frankly. I think that it should describe only China. China can be easily found in our custom. But we do not feel Korea in our custom.　(Of course, I like Kimchi. However, I love pasta any more. ) Please delete "Korea" if "Korea" is a cause of the edit battle. Korea is not small existence in the history of Japan. However, it is not always necessary in the history of Japan. In a simple Japan guide, Korea is often omitted. What does the Japanese excluding me think?

By the way, how is a final edit done? I return it to the first setting. --HaradaSanosuke 15:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, omitting Korea is often the Japanese bias, even in academic circles in Japan. We try to offer a more balanced and accurate perspective based on facts in Wikipedia.--Sir Edgar 23:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

---

My insistence is corresponding to "Anti-Korean vandalism" that Edger defined. Moreover, it agrees to "Neo-Nazi" that Deiaemeth defines. However, I do not think, my insistence is "Anti-Korean vandalism" or "Neo-Nazi". 　--Kamosuke 06:41, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Kamosuke, read a damn history book for once. Your version sucks, man.--222.233.205.197 08:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

They seem to angry at groundless edit. Do you means that Kamosuke's edit is groundless? Does he attempt to explain ground of his version? Reito-maguro 06:20, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

For instance, a big grave in the southern part of a Korean peninsula is a duplicate of Kofun of Japan. This is because the royal family in a lot of Korean peninsulas was sent to Japan by the hostage. I think that Edger is detailed to the episode of Korea. However, I do not think that Edger is detailed to the line of the history of Japan.

The Korean graves are older than the ones in Japan. Carbon dated older.

Sir Edgar 00:43, 12 May 2006

Anti-Korean vandalism I would like to ask people to:

1. Please stop removing references to Korea in this article. 2. Please stop changing "Korea" to "Korean Peninsula" or "Asian Mainland".

There is overwhelming archaeological, historical, genetic, and other evidence of massive Korean influence on Japan (perhaps even more than Chinese influence). We have discussed this issue over and over and provided links, etc.

I am one of the people who have brought this article to the quality that it is now, so that it could be listed as a "good article". I will not allow vandals and those uneducated in the basics of East Asian history to dilute its quality.

Most of the edits have been from anonymous users, but anyone registered who engages in this behavior will be reported as a vandal.--Sir Edgar 00:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Deiaemeth 23:03, 12 May 2006　
It is considered vandalism as 1) no reason for deletion is given 2) Any mention of Korea is deleted and replaced with "China", not even "Mainland Asia", and 3) Properly cited information is deleted. It IS an act of vandalism, but the cause of vandalism stems from content disputes. What difference are there between this case and Neo-Nazis frequently vandalizing the Holocaust page and blanking sections just because they believe such actions did not take place? Well, yes, I agree that the Korea/mainland thing is more of a content dispute, but what the anon IP user does as a whole is considered vandalism in Wikipedia. Well, I guess all we can do is try to [Wikipedia:Assume good faith|assume good faith]], as I've seen even the most heinous internet trolls come around =). Deiaemeth 23:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

---

By the way, do you understand Japanese?　This question relates to the source introduces to you. 　--Kamosuke 06:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

---

Let's make a final decision. The basis of [Korea] was lost by the source of Edger. The "Korean Peninsula course" is the most academic. As for the treatment of Rangaku and Christianity, many users have pointed out the fault of Edger. Please present a final sentence. --Kamosuke 13:26, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

No sumo???

I just realized that sumo is not even mentioned in the article! How did we let this happen? I think we should definitely have a Sports in Japan section that includes discussion of sumo, baseball, football, etc. And go, too! I will start one, but please help! Thank you.--Sir Edgar 23:32, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a nice photo, so it's not completely missing, but a brief section on recreation would be useful. It can link to the longer articles. Fg2 16:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

A few details

As you guys have been editing this one for a long time, so before I remove something someone is particularly attached to, better talk about it :

- "dwarf state" is mentionned twice in very close sections. Not that what is written is factually problematic, but for the flow of the article there should be a way to regroup those ?

I also found it odd mentioned again in the Etymology section. It was originally in the History section. Repetition is unnecessary in this case. I would edit it out of the Etymology section because frankly I think it's worded better in the later section.

- any way of putting the slow conquest of the North somewhere ? (ainu / emishi...)

Yes, I'm very interested in this topic! It's quite difficult to get much information from Western sources on this. Until recently, I didn't even know that Hokkaido wasn't fully conquered until the 19th century. We can put this in the History section, of course. But only a sentence or two.

- The state was not always centered in Nara during the Nara period (eg between 740-745), this is a detail, but there should be a way for a better formula.

Good point. Let's see how we can phrase this better.

- Maybe put something about the development / spread of kana in Heian period (development of a more indigenous form of culture)?

Whoa! You've just made a very good point. There is no mention of the Tale of Genji, the world's first novel. I'll put that in immediately.

- Leaving the Sei-tai Shogun for Yoritomo here would require an explanation. I suggest to simply remove it

I don't have an opinion about this as I'm not very knowledgeable about it.

- It may help to put in brackets what Sankinkotai Bakuhan taisei are ?

Someone did that.

- economics : should general info about transportation go in the infrastructure part ?

Perhaps.

- "The prefectures are commonly grouped into regions, with five (or more) on Honshu". The "(or more)" looks kind of weird without explanations.

Please offer an edit suggestion then.

Thanks for your help!--Sir Edgar 04:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Tensaibuta 16:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for advice to my Talk page. And, the Japanese can also agree to your detailed point. I think that I should add two policies of Toyotomi-Hideyoshi. (Katana Hunt, Cadastral Surveys by Taiko )　How about your opinion?　--HaradaSanosuke 16:57, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not think those would fit in this general introductory article about Japan. Probably more in the more detailed History of Japan or Azuchi-Momoyama period article (maybe they are already there). Tensaibuta 23:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Misinformation in article's section on Japan's economy

re: this paragraph in the article: >>>Distinguishing characteristics of the Japanese economy include the cooperation of manufacturers, suppliers, distributors, and banks in closely-knit groups called keiretsu; the powerful enterprise unions and shuntō; cozy relations with government bureaucrats, and the guarantee of lifetime employment (shushin koyo) in big corporations and highly unionized blue-collar factories. Recently, Japanese companies have begun to abandon some of these norms in an attempt to increase profitability.

This is not accurate. Although the Ministry of Finance (which effectively runs Japan's economy) is always tinkering with Japan's economic arrangements, there is no evidence that Japan has abandoned "lifetime employment," the keiretsu, or other unique features of Japan Inc. Western Japan watchers like Eamonn Fingleton have convincingly documented how the Western media remains hopelessly in the dark about Japan's economy. The situation is not helped by Japan's ritualized self-modesty in which they do not attempt to correct misconceptions and errors in the Western media. Last, but not least, when Japanese officials speak about their nation's economy, it is important to "read between the lines," as the Japanese tend to speak ambiguously. Bottom line: the keiretsu system remains intact and lifetime employment at the major exporting corporations is alive and well.

Literature

Shouldn't literature be included in the sentence: "In the pre-modern era, Japan developed a distinct culture, in its arts: (ikebana, origami, ukiyo-e), crafts (dolls, lacquerware, pottery), performances (bunraku, dance, kabuki, noh, rakugo), traditions (games, onsen, sento, tea ceremony, budo, architecture, gardens, swords), and cuisine."? (The main Japanese Lit article starts out, "Early work was heavily influenced by Chinese literature, but Japan quickly developed a style and quality of its own." Also, it wouldn't take up much more space to mention the nobel prize winner's names, would it? (Yasunari Kawabata and Kenzaburo Oe). I think Kamosuke is correct that mention of The Tale of Genji belongs in even the briefest discussion of Japanese literature... but this article doesn't discuss Japanese literature, it just mentions literature in passing as one aspect of Japanese culture. The paragraph in question speaks about Japan of "today," so it doesn't fit in that paragraph either. -- Rizzleboffin 17:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I've put The Tale of Genji in the appropriate History and Culture sections. Kamosuke could have done this easily, instead of engaging in vandalism. I agree we've missed a key fact though.--Sir Edgar 00:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I think about the element that composes the Japanese Literature. In Japan Literatur, there are two classifications. It is short poetry (Tanka and Haiku) and a long novel. And, the explanation of the Kana character might be needed. and The female writer's activity might be important. --HaradaSanosuke 17:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

And I want to make Japan of Fiction. It will be written about Ninja and Samurai. How about your opinion?　--HaradaSanosuke 17:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

There are quite detailed Japanese Literature and Japanese poetry articles, you might want to take a look there. I think references to the Tale of Genji are probably enough to the entry article to Japan (I am however thinking how to mention Kana). As for a reference to fictionnal Japan, where would you think they would fit ? Tensaibuta 10:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this article really semi-protected?

According to the banner at the top of the article, the article on Japan has been semi-protected, so as to prevent new or unregistered users from editing it. Why, then, have there been at least 2 edits by anonymous users during the short time that I've been online? Shouldn't this be impossible? I don't mean to pick on anonymous editors, but rather to find out why semi-protection apparently fails to work as claimed.--Tachikoma 15:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Delete "from Baekje" - Not significant enough to put into main article

This is a very insincere content. The foreign country that contributed to a lot of Japan is denied. And, information written here is not correct. Or, the exaggeration is large. Please delete the full text in this part. Even if this part doesn't exist, it can explain Japan. It is also unnatural that this article is put after the story in the Asuka age. 　--HaradaSanosuke 17:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello. You might have a point with the location of this sentence. Concerning the content itself, please see the section Citation requested for "...the Chinese writing system, Buddhism, advanced pottery, ceremonial burial, and other aspects of culture were introduced by aristocrats, artisans, scholars, and monks from Baekje, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea" in the talk page above.

To all : I sincerely believe there MUST be a reference (at least one... preferably more than one) given for that particular sentence. I understand the concerns about double-standards, etc., but keeping the sentence like that will do nothing but start edit wars. I suggest to soften the sentence a bit (with something like "According to various scholars,...". Tensaibuta 23:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

It's funny that all the requests for citations from Japanese Wikipedians are about only references to Korea. I get the impression that Japanese Wikipedians would just like any mention of their neighbor completely eliminated from all Japan articles, especially in the context of ancient history. Why is that? I'll go ahead and put the reference in. In fact, I'll put three or four in, even though we've discussed this AD NAUSEUM in Talk.--Sir Edgar 23:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem is not really here. I think the sentence is perceived as controversial (it keeps on getting reverted...), and the "normal" readers will not look inside the talk page to find the relevant section (furthermore as the talk page is growing, it is becoming rather hard to find). Provided it is controversial, if you think the sentence must stay, then you must provide relevant references in the main text (and btw I am neither Japanese nor Korean). Tensaibuta 00:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

The only people who seem to think it is controversial are Japanese Wikipedians and anonymous accounts which probably belong to Japanese users. Constant deletions and repeated requests for references (when a simple Google search of ancient Japanese history will do) are becoming annoying. Why only the Korea references? There have been citation requests for the Economy section, but no deletions. I think it's quite sad how in the dark Japanese people are of their own history.--Sir Edgar 06:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion is not reasonable at all. Your sadness doesn't become a reason to prove your insistence. --HaradaSanosuke 19:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Finally, I delete this article. Edger deleted Tendaishu([30]) or Rangaku. But,　The value of Baekje is lower.

I am getting the impression that the Japanese are total ingrates. Please prove me wrong by changing your attitude on Korean contributions to Japanese civilization. Baekje played a key role in Japan's development. If not for Baekje, Japan would likely remain a backwater in Asia for many more centuries and become probably something of a mix of Mongolian and Southeast Asian cultures. The study of Dutch learning did not have a major effect on Japan at the time. It is only with the Meiji Restoration that we see dramatic Westernization in the country. Anyhow, Rangaku was not deleted, but moved to the History section.--Sir Edgar 00:41, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, Edger.　I will handle this problem. 　--Kamosuke 10:18, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

LMAO @ "ingrates." A typical display of twisted Korean nationalism. Can they not be proud of themselves without claiming the ancestry and origin of everything ancient-Japanese and being a condescending asshole toward the Japanese? It's just pathetic that they have to come to every Japanese-history related article and infuse their self-admiring nationalistic biases into it. And they call you a Japanese nationalist if you correct their biased edits with objective sources.

"Teachers are important in Korea's Confucian-influenced society. Those who instruct the next generation have sometimes been regarded as near-gods. Teachers' Day is important because it gives students and parents a chance to show their gratitude.... Last October, the Korean Federation of Teachers' Associations (KFTA) asked teachers how to deal with Teachers' Day because of long-term arguments and criticism that it encourages parents to give bribes to teachers." [31]

What a joke. Why don't you look into the mirror for once before calling someone else a nationalist. --Saintjust 12:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You've been reported for violating Wikipedia:Assume good faith, Wikipedia:Civility, and Wikipedia:No personal attacks.--Sir Edgar 00:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The source is falsified

I do a regrettable report. The source was falsified for his insistence. I explain details.... He put four sources as evidence of his insistence.

His insistence
The start of the Yayoi period around 300 BC marked the influx of new practices such as rice farming, shamanism, and iron and bronze-making brought by migrants from Korea.

First,　He deleted the source of UCLA [32], and linked sites that Korea managed. [33] He said "Fixed vandalism" the reason for the change of this link. [34]

The UCLA source written by Samuel Hideo Yamashita was slightly biased.

Edger, You should point out UCLA's bias.

What "sites that Korea managed" are you talking about? Is PBS managed by Koreans? The list of current links are as follows: PBS, Bookrags, Jared Diamond, San Jose State University, The Seoul Times, JREF, The Asian Society Museum, Japan Guide, Encarta, Japanvisitor.com, and the Japanese Archaeological Association.

You should explain the reason to evaluate this article higher than UCLA.

Some of Yamashita's descriptions do not conform to mainstream opinion on the subject of Korea. In addition, I am using multiple sources (American, British, Japanese, Korea, etc), not relying on one.--Sir Edgar 00:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

However, It wrote also even on the site in South Korea like this.
Celadon happens to be one of the many forms of art and culture that Korea passed on to Japan. Another is writing. The Japanese writing system derives from China , as does paper making, block printing, art styles and much more.

Yes, that's why it says "Chinese writing system" in the article.

It has not proven the reason to add Korea.

Koreans brought the Chinese writing system to Japan.--Sir Edgar 00:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Next source　[35] "Some casting of bronze and iron began in Japan by about 100 BCE, but the raw materials for both metals were introduced from Korea and China.　 " "Han-dynasty bronze mirrors were the most important prestige items imported from China. " "from Korea and China."　This is a word that he never admitted. and This site uses "Korean Peninsula."

Yes, the use of "Korean Peninsula" is sometimes used, but that has been changing. As we've discussed, it's an inaccurate and politically-loaded term and most likely the influence of Japanese sources that many Western researchers rely on. Some say "Korea and China", some say just "Korea". The evidence points towards a distinctly Korean nature to culture brought to Japan.

It is your Bias.

Your terse response means to me that you've accepted my reasoning, albeit grudgingly.--Sir Edgar 00:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Next source [36]

The opinion of Jared Diamond is interesting. "...who passed through Korea to conquer Japan in the fourth century, but who were themselves ― emphatically ― not Koreans."　"Those reveal massive transmission of culture to Japan from Korea itself, and from China via Korea. "　

The text in the Wikipedia article does not say "Koreans". It says "from Korea". Also, you've misquoted Jared Diamond. That is not his opinion, but the opinion that is "widespread in Japan". Here is the actual text:

"Also widespread in Japan is a theory that the Japanese descended from horse-riding Asian nomads who passed through Korea to conquer Japan in the fourth century, but who were themselves ― emphatically ― not Koreans. A theory favored by many Western archeologists and Koreans, and unpopular in some circles in Japan, is that the Japanese are descendants of immigrants from Korea who arrived with rice-paddy agriculture around 400 B.C."

Next source [37] The title of this page is "The Genetic Origins of the Japanese". and This site writes "It was brought by a people called the Yayoi from the Korean peninsula."

As mentioned earlier "Korean Peninsula" is often misused.--Sir Edgar 23:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I am wishing him to do a correct edit.　　--Kamosuke 12:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Edger doesn't obviously do a sincere quotation. --HaradaSanosuke 19:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

The continued misspelling of my name and similar use of phrases shared by a few different IDs, including HaradaSanosuke and others, suggests to me the use of a multi-ID account. If this is so, I will ignore such persons going forward. Please be honest in your use of Wikipedia.--Sir Edgar 00:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Edger, Your work is not a slander of the user who criticizes your opinion. You have the obligation to do four explanations.

• 1. You Say "The UCLA source written by Samuel Hideo Yamashita was slightly biased. "　You should explain which part is bias. If it cannot be done, your insistence is POV.

Yamashita uses biased language such as the simultaneous use of "Korean peninsula" and "Japan" in the same sentence. This is done at least twice. Ex) "Japan was invaded by a horse-riding people of continental origin. In one version of this theory, the conquerors were from the state of Puyo, in what we now call Manchuria, and were driven southward by turmoil in north China and Manchuria, down through the Korean peninsula, and across the Korea Strait to Japan." Yamashita also states that various bronze items brought to Japan were "Chinese-made" when most scholars state they are likely both Korean and Chinese. Yamashita suggests that there was "a Japanese outpost on the southern tip of the Korean peninsula" when most Western scholars have dismissed the existence of such a Japanese presence. --Sir Edgar 01:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• 2. You deleted the source of "History of Japan" of UCLA, and inserted the source of "History of South Korea". Please explain the reason why you selected "History of Korea".

As explained above, the source seems biased. "History of Korea" comes from PBS and has the relevant description for this topic on Japan.--Sir Edgar 01:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• 3. You added word "Korea" not being written in the source. Moreover, China was deleted from "China and Korea". Please explain the reason why you falsify the source.

Kindly avoid making rude remarks and unfounded accusations. I ask you to observe civility in your comments. You will need to be careful about your statements going forward. Should you make another unfounded accusation that I "falsify" sources, I will have no choice but to report you immediately. I promise you I shall not be so forgiving the next time. Anyhow, I don't know what you're talking about. Here are the quotes:

1) "By about 400 b.c. Korean farmers migrated across the Sea of Japan (called the Eastern Sea by Koreans) to southern Japan. This was the beginning of farming villages in Japan and much of the modern Japanese population is descended from these immigrants. The Japanese and Korean people are really close cousins." http://www.pbs.org/hiddenkorea/history.htm

2) "As well as rice farming, a variety of other items and technologies were introduced from Korea in the Yayoi. These include the use of bronze and iron, domesticated pigs, wooden and stone agricultural tools, megalithic burials, and certain types of pottery." http://www.bookrags.com/history/worldhistory/yayoi-period-ema-06/

*Recent studies by the AMS method clarifies that the rice farming has been introduced to the Japan islands in the BC 9th century at leaset(See in the last of [38]. The introduction to Korea is also considerd to be about in the BC 9th or later). According to introduction of wet race farming to Japan, now three kinds of hypothesis exist. They has no consensus for no conclusive proof. You show only a hypothesys which is considerd to be once　most favor for a geometrical reason between the Japan islands and the Korea peninsula. However the negative opinions of the hypothesis is recently grown, because a sciencetific studies supports another hypothesys (You can see in H. Takamiya et al in [39]*.Reito-maguro 15:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Your argument does not make sense. "Geometrical reason?" 幾何理由? Anyway, that abstract says "the Southern route hypothesis is rejected" based on scientific study. - Sekicho 15:57, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You are right. Thank you for pointing my misunderstanding. I cancel my writing.Reito-maguro 18:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

3) "Many other elements of the new Yayoi culture were unmistakably Korean and previously foreign to Japan, including bronze objects, weaving, glass beads, and styles of tools and houses." http://www2.gol.com/users/hsmr/Content/East%20Asia/Japan/History/roots.html

and "Massive Korean influences on Japan during the kofun era... were responsible for transmitting Buddhism, writing, horseback riding, and new ceramic and metallurgical techniques to Japan from the Asian mainland." http://www2.gol.com/users/hsmr/Content/East%20Asia/Japan/History/roots.html

4) "The culture identified with the Japanese was not brought to the islands of Japan until about 300 B.C. It was brought by a people called the Yayoi from the Korean peninsula. It included rice cultivation and the use of steel for tools and weapons." http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/japanorigin.htm

5) "Among the three kingdoms on Korean Peninsula, Baekje became the first to introduce Buddhism to Japan in AD 553. Baekje contributed greatly to the establishment and development of ancient Japanese culture as well as Buddhism. Nowadays, More relics of Baekje Buddhism remain in Japan than in Korea." http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?idx=580 (If you really hate Korean sources that much I will gladly replace this one to satisfy your anti-Koreanism.)

6) "Buddhism was first introduced to Japan via the Korean peninsula in 552, when Baekje monks came to Nara to introduce the eight doctrinal schools." http://www.jref.com/culture/japanese_buddhism.shtml (Note the use of "Korean peninsula" in Japanese source. Jref is quite biased, but I put this to prove that even Jref acknowledges this fact.)

7) "Mahayana Buddhism was introduced into Japan from Korea in the sixth century (traditionally, in either 538 or 552), as part of a diplomatic mission that included gifts such as an image of Shakyamuni Buddha and several volumes of Buddhist texts." http://www.asiasocietymuseum.org/buddhist_trade/koreajapan.html

8) "Kanji, one of the three scripts used in the Japanese language, are Chinese characters, which were first introduced to Japan in the 5th century via Korea." http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2046.html

9) "Originating in Korea, the natural ash glaze became characteristic of later Japanese wares made at Tamba, Tokoname, Bizen, and Shigaraki. Jars, bottles, dishes, and cups were made, some with sculpted figures." http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761568150_4/Pottery.html

10) "Along with rice culture, metallurgy was introduced from Korea. Metal-edged tools allowed the cultivation of drier land, and increased rice production led to a population explosion." http://www.japanvisitor.com/index.php?cID=359&pID=334&cName=Japanese

and "At this time Korea was at its cultural peak despite - or thanks to - being split into three feuding kingdoms. The kingdom facing Japan, Paekche, formed a strategic alliance with Japan. As part of the deal it made some revolutionary inputs into Japanese history, namely:

> a stream of various craftsmen, among them metal workers who introduced more sophisticated armor and weapons

> Buddhist treasures

> a scholar who taught writing and Confucian thought.

The first state university was founded in 647 in Nara, headed by a Korean priest. This reflects the pivotal role of specialist Korean immigrants (toraijin) in bringing Chinese culture to Japan during the Asuka period, creating a Buddhist inspired culture late in the period known as the Hakuho culture." http://www.japanvisitor.com/index.php?cID=359&pID=334&cName=Japanese (The use of the term "Chinese culture" is biased as other articles specifically state that many aspects of culture brought to Japan from Korea was distinctly Korean in nature.)--Sir Edgar 01:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

• 4.　Explanation of shamanism was in no sources of information. Is this the word which you added without the evidence? --Kamosuke 13:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

You're right about this. I will put one in or delete the word.--Sir Edgar 01:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Here are the quotes you requested:

"Amaterasu was most likely a shamaness from Korea. Shamanism began in Korea and spread to Japan, becoming Japan's national religion, Shintoism." http://www.economicexpert.com/2a/Japanese:person.htm

"Yayoi culture, which originated in the northern area of the island of Kyushu in about the 3rd or 2nd century BC, is directly related to later Japanese culture and hence to Shinto. Among the primary Yayoi religious phenomena were agricultural rites and shamanism." http://cache.britannica.com/eb/article-8481

This is not a frequently discussed topic though and requires more than just Internet sources.--Sir Edgar 07:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

---

Details are written when I am free. However, Edger does three mistakes.

• 1　Falsification of source

I pointed it out by a red character. "China" is deleted, and a "Korean peninsula" is changed into "Korea". It is not a correct quotation.

The quotes say both "Korean peninsula" and "Korea". We've already discussed the bias associated with the simultaneous use of "China", "Japan", and "Korean peninsula". This implies that no civilization existed in Korea and it merely served as an empty bridge. I have warned you and I'm going to warn you again: If you wrongly accuse me of falsifying a source again, I will report you.--Sir Edgar 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• 2　Confused history knowledge

I saw the source that Edger had introduced. Some source cannot distinguish Jomon, Yayoi, and the Kofun Period. some source is not corresponding even in the age where rice is spread to Japan either. Perhaps, Edger is confused. And, it is necessary to avoid the incorrect information.

Please read each article carefully.--Sir Edgar 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

• 3 Strong bias to Korea

Your source often uses a Korean peninsula. It is because the nation of Korea doesn't exist. However, you dislike word "Korean peninsula". Perhaps, this is a bias to South Korea.

No, I disagree. The use of "Korean peninsula" in many cases are biased. Of course, the nation of Korea didn't exist at the time. But did Japan? Then why is "Japan" and "Korean peninsula" used simultaneously?--Sir Edgar 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Edger, We will thoroughly exchange opinions. --Kamosuke 06:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I welcome that, but please remind yourself of the warning I gave you for I shall not again.--Sir Edgar 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There is soo much overwelhming evidence of Korean influence on Japan sited and referenced above, why don't we just name the Kingdom if there are problems with vague descriptions. Instead of using the Korean Peninsula, Say Silla, Baekje or Koguryeo, Balhae, Kaya etc. Also, didn't Edgar use multiple sources so if one source was Bias in favor of Japan or Korea, then other sources can explain why he didn't use the term Korean Peninsula or Mainland Asia or China. Also, you have to realize when the term "China" is being used, some sources are using China like the term Roman and they are including all the cultures that were influenced by them, which then includes Korea. I think Edgar is being more specific and naming the Dynasty and Kingdoms. To avoid incorrect information multiple sources need to be used. (Japanese, American, Korean, Chinese, European) then you can get a concensus of when rice was spread. The nation of China as we know it today didn't exist back then the nation of Japan didn't exist back then, do we need to change everything in this article and say the "East Asian Island" for Ancient history of Japan.　--Kamosuke 10:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Your argument above is confusing. What exactly are you advocating?--Sir Edgar 01:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Request for Protection.

I spend half my time on this article reverting vandalism or erroneous edits by anonymous users. Who said two of the introductory paragraphs should be combined? Did anyone agree with the use of "State of Japan" vs. just "Japan"? Can we please have this page protected? Thank you.--Sir Edgar 05:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

See WP:RFPP.Voice-of-All 05:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Just listed for semi-protection.--Sir Edgar 06:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Edgar, I think You have to discuss with above section(The source is falsified) before requesting for protection.--Celldea 16:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I was expecting a lot more from the new Japanese Wikipedian accounts, not this. I'll do it on my own time, thank you.--Sir Edgar 00:51, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Sir Edgar

Hello Sir Edgar, your friendly collective conscious member again. I like your reference to Japanese people having their own history. Whether Wikipedia has policies against such attribution to a race as a whole as a result of individual arguments or not is unimportant. As I have directed to your attention before, it is incorrect to claim that Japanese-Americans are responsible for the actions of wartime Japan. You unfairly attributed guilt in a previous discussion of ours to Japanese-Americans in the U.S. for Japan's war crimes during World War II. I hoped that this was just a mistake on your part pertaining to your logic. However, I see again your attribution to ALL of the Japanese a belief procured through individual arguments. Before, I disregarded all of the accusations of bias on your part, but clearly the aforementioned statement of the Japanese having a different history displays that the possibility of bias on your part is a plausible accusation. I am offended and have recorded your contribution for my records for the administrative bodies I have made you aware of before in our conversations. My consternation pertains to you damaging the integrity of this platform as a reliable and objective source. I find your statement in my opinion to be racist and jingoistic. I also find that the position you hold within Wikipedia may possibly be used to further crimes of hate against Japanese-Americans so well documented within western historical sources, both primary and secondary. It is pertinent, in my opinion that either Wikipedia, the ACLU, or JCLU react to your statements with exigent application as it is clear there is behavior on your part which warrants the concern of responsible parties. Sincerely, 05:04, 19 June 2006 (UTC)~~Collective Conscious

P.S. On behalf of us Japanese-Americans of the Nikkei heritage, we love you Sir Edgar, please stop hating us :) We minorities are not a threat to you, I promise.

Usually I give warnings, but you have threatened action by the ACLU, etc against me previously on my Talk page. So, I'm now reporting you for violation of Wikipedia:No personal attacks:

• "Threats of legal action."
• "Threats or actions which expose other Wikipedia editors to political, religious or other persecution by government, their employer or any others. Violations of this sort may result in a block for an extended period of time which may be applied immediately by any sysop upon discovery. Sysops applying such sanctions should confidentially notify the members of the Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee and Jimbo Wales of what they have done and why."

I don't recall ever talking about Japanese Americans. I think I just simply tried to ignore your thesis-length rants and then you got upset and started making threats.--Sir Edgar 05:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Edgar, you're violating the cardinal rule of international relations: Never argue with an idiot. (Just some friendly advice.) - Sekicho 15:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Wise advice. He has no account to get a warning or ban, like with Saintjust. Next time, I will report the IP which can get banned.--Sir Edgar 02:46, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Polite Warning

I am quite disappointed that after all the work I've done on this article, a few select individuals have decided to attack me. For those that have done so, please ask yourselves this: "What have you done to improve the article? Have you added valuable content? Did you make a positive contribution to the article?"

Kindly note that I shall not tolerate further inappropriate and rude behavior by any individuals. This is your warning. Any violations of Wikipedia:Assume good faith, Wikipedia:Civility, and Wikipedia:No personal attacks will be reported immediately. Thank you.--Sir Edgar 05:38, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Sir Edgar, I think you blew a gasket. Unsigned comment by 66.32.20.206 (aka "Collective Conscious")- Please sign your comments.

Sir Edgar, You are not neutrally. You have a bias of Korea. 100doors 15:40, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

On the contrary, I think your posts show that you have no credibility whatsoever.--Sir Edgar 02:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Positive contribution vs. vandalism

Among the contributions I have made, in terms of content, to this article*:

1. "During the 8th century, the emergence of an indigenous culture sparked a "golden age" in Japan called the Heian period, characterized by aesthetic refinement and aristocratic sophistication. The arts and literature flourished, culminating in Lady Murasaki's writing of The Tale of Genji, the world's first known novel."

2. "The Tokugawa shogunate, established in 1603, began to pursue the Sakoku ("closed country") policy of isolation that lasted for two and a half centuries. The arrival of U.S. Commodore Matthew Perry's "Black Ships" and the signing of the Convention of Kanagawa in 1854, signaled the opening of the country to the West."

3. "The first signs of civilization appeared around 10,000 BC with the Jomon culture, characterized by a Mesolithic to Neolithic semi-sedentary hunter-gatherer lifestyle of pit dwelling and a rudimentary form of agriculture. Weaving was still unknown and clothes were often made of bark. Around that time, however, the Jomon people started to make clay vessels, decorated with patterns made by impressing the wet clay with braided or unbraided cord and sticks (Jomon means "patterns of plaited cord"). This led to the introduction of the earliest known type of pottery in the world."

4. "The start of the Yayoi period around 300 BC marked the influx of new practices such as rice farming, shamanism, and iron and bronze-making brought by migrants from Korea, and possibly China. These formed the basic elements of traditional Japanese culture, still seen today. As the population increased and society became more complex, they wove cloth, lived in permanent farming villages, constructed buildings of wood and stone, accumulated wealth through landownership and the storage of grain, and developed distinct social classes."

5. "The Japanese did not start writing their own histories until the 5th and 6th centuries, when the Chinese writing system, Buddhism, advanced pottery, ceremonial burial, and other aspects of culture were introduced by aristocrats, artisans, scholars, and monks from Baekje, one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea."

6. "However, historians believe the first emperor who actually existed was Emperor Ojin, though the date of his reign is uncertain."

7. "The emergence of a distinct indigenous culture in Japan sparked a "golden age" in Japan called the Heian period which lasted for nearly four centuries. After absorbing so much from the continent over several centuries, the Japanese began to experience a growing sense of self-confidence and appreciation of their own land and heritage, leading to the development of an indigenous Japanese culture. The arts and literature flourished and, in the early 11th century, Lady Murasaki wrote the world's first known novel called The Tale of Genji. Although trade expeditions and Buddhist pilgrims continued, the court decided to terminate official relations with China. The Fujiwara clan's regency regime dominated politics during this period."

8. "On March 31, 1854, Commodore Matthew Perry and the "Black Ships" of the United States Navy forced the opening of Japan to the West with the Convention of Kanagawa."

9. "By 1910, Japan controlled Korea, Taiwan, and the southern half of Sakhalin."

10. "Japan remains a global economic power today and is now bidding for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council."

11. "As of 2006 Japan is the only country in the world which is headed by an emperor."

12. "Japan maintains close economic and military ties with its key ally, the United States, and the US-Japan security alliance serves as the cornerstone of its foreign policy."

13. "Japan's relationship with its neighbors, however, can be described as tenuous at best."

14. "Beginning in the Heian period, Japan developed a distinct culture of its own. Lady Murasaki's The Tale of Genji, written in the early 11th century, is the world's first known novel. Japanese civilization flourished during this time and a refined sensibility and interest in the arts began to set in."

15. "Sumo is considered Japan's national sport and is one of its most popular. In the 8th century AD, Emperor Shomu (724-749) held lavish tournaments where the best wrestlers in the country competed before hundreds. Professional sumo can trace its roots back to the Edo period as a form of sporting entertainment. Today, six major tournaments are held every year in Japan, each one lasting 15 days. Three are held in Tokyo (January, May, and September) and one each in Osaka (March), Nagoya (July), and Fukuoka (November)."

16. "Beginning in the 12th century, Japan developed traditional martial arts known as budo, which were popular among the warrior class. These include judo, karate, kendo, and others. Judo has been recognized as an official event in the Olympic Games since the 1964 Summer Olympics in Tokyo. It is also one of the four main forms of amateur competitive wrestling practiced internationally today."

17. "After the Meiji Restoration, various kinds of Western sports were introduced into Japan."

18. "Baseball arrived in 1872 and during the 1870s, track and field events, football, rugby, and ice skating were introduced. In 1911, an Austrian gave skiing instruction to the Japanese army. In those days, Western sports were played by few people, but through the educational system they spread throughout the country. Western sports were initially stressed as a form of mental discipline, but Japanese have now come to enjoy them as recreational activities."

19. "Today, baseball is the most popular spectator sport in Japan, followed by (in no particular order) football, rugby, golf, badminton, table tennis, car racing, and fishing."

20. "Each year, Japan observes the second Monday in October as a national holiday called Health and Sports Day.

21. "Other major sporting events that Japan has hosted include the 1972 Winter Olympics in Sapporo and the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. It also co-hosted the 2002 FIFA World Cup with South Korea."

• Edits by other users included.

In addition, I have copy edited this article hundreds of times and reverted vandalism countless times.

The people that are criticizing me seem to focus on simply deleting any reference to Korea in the article. Everything else I've done is completely ignored and yet this obsession with eliminating any kind of reference to Korea (except, interestingly, invasion or control of Korea by Japan) goes on and on. I am a specialist on ancient Japanese and Korean civilizations. This is what I am interested in. I also have an interest in their modern societies and cultures, especially if it involves football. I have no political agenda and am merely promoting correct and complete information in Wikipedia.

In the process, these people are deleting valuable and relevant content. One anonymous user even edited "Japan (Japanese: 日本, Nihon or Nippon) is an island country located in the Pacific Ocean, east of China and Korea..." to "Japan (Japanese: 日本, Nihon or Nippon) is an island country located in the Pacific Ocean, east of China..." Should the country of Korea be wiped off the face of the planet? It's right next to Japan. How ridiculous is this?

Some ask for evidence and provide none themselves besides opinion. If you challenge anything in the article, please discuss it in the Talk page and provide evidence first. Do not ask others to do all the work for you. Please be reasonable and keep your manners.--Sir Edgar 06:59, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It is suitable with "east of China and Russia", If it writes. "Korea" is too small. 100doors 01:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

People who distort facts like this should not edit articles... With the above comment, now everyone can see what we are confronting in keeping this article balanced. One could say this is the Japanese bias against Korea. Mitigate or delete any association, besides conquest or domination. I find it terribly inappropriate, even colonial and backward. Very perplexing, indeed. It's almost like a strange sort of insecurity or complex. More analysis required...--Sir Edgar 01:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I hope you understand that this isn't a Japanese bias against Korea, it's one or more individuals with no life. If there's actually more than one person up against you, I suspect it's a 2ch thing; all the Korea-haters in Japan seem to hang out there. Don't take it too seriously. - Sekicho 12:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

declining birth rate

what are the effect of underpopulation/Sub-replacement fertility on japan's economy, and any other problems or benifits, as well as the causes --voodoom 09:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

One effect is that rural Japan is emptying out at an alarming rate. However, you won't notice the problem so much in urban areas like Tokyo, where there's enough migration (and immigration) to keep the population stable or growing. - Sekicho 12:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)