Talk:Francis Chan (bishop)

Francis Chan (bishop) has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
April 18, 2020	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 14, 2020.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that a Malaysian sultan gave "The Singing Bishop" a marble statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a token of their friendship?

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on July 25, 2022.

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Francis Chan (bishop)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 13:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"Chinese Singaporean bishop" don't like these two links next door to each other, it's a little sea of blue.

De-linked bishop in first sentence. Linked further in lead. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead needs a little expansion.

Attempted an expansion – hope that's sufficient. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:20, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is "A Council Father"?

Any bishop who attended an ecumenical council. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"He succumbed to terminal cancer " avoid euphemisms around death. As tragic as it was, he died.

Fixed. Sorry, it's just my habit of not wanting to repeat words. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No free image?

Unfortunately no. I suppose taking a screenshot of one of The Straits Times article scans would not be a free image? —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:55, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

" Gregory Yong.[15][17] Yong would later" merge -> " Gregory Yong,[15][17] who would later"

Merged. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"noteworthy friendships " what about all the other noteworthy friendships, for completeness, they ought to be mentioned here, right?

Wasn't able to find any other friendships in the sources I trawled through. And I presume the noteworthy people who sent messages of condolences and paid their respects as he was lying in state were doing so out of a sense of duty, not necessarily because they knew him well (if at all). —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:12, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

""token of [their] friendship".[12][13][15][18] " four refs?

Used four just to be on the safe side, since that is the hook fact for this article's DYK nom right now. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:12, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"courtyard to this day" as of 2020. Needs a timeframe. "to this day" can easily go out of date.

Done. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox: why is "Bishop of Penang" in italics?

I didn't place italics around that title – that's just the way the parameter appears. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"and was cared fo" odd. Perhaps a full stop. "He was cared for...

Split the sentence into two. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"night of Friday, 20 October 1967," days of the week are seldom notable.

Removed. —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"It was there that he passed away.[1]" you already mentioned he'd died. And we don't use euphemisms about dying. He died.

~~Changed to "died" and added the fact that he laid in state there (which wasn't mentioned earlier).~~ —Bloom6132 (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, I mentioned where his residence was and that he laid in state there in the earlier section re his death. Hope that works. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for my first pass, I'll put it on hold while we go over these points. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 20:57, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: thanks very much for the review! I hope I've addressed your comments satisfactorily. —Bloom6132 (talk) 23:22, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I added an important clarification footnote (note B), but that ends up shifting ref 5 and the note to the next line and leaves them standalone. I've tried testing out &nbsp, but that results in a space between the full stop and ref 5 (and lots of whitespace between "Catholic" and "priesthood". —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:40, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just viewed the article on Safari and the text appeared fine there (i.e. notes not on separate line). Seems to be only a problem on Firefox. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:56, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good work Bloom6132, happy to promote this now. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:59, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 01:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that a Malaysian sultan gave "The Singing Bishop" a marble statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a token of their friendship? Sources: The Straits Times; National Heritage Board (Singapore); Archdiocese of Singapore; The Straits Times (re nickname)
- ALT1:... that Sultan Ibrahim of Johor gave Fr. Francis Chan a marble statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary as a token of their friendship? (same as main hook)
- ALT2:... that Francis Chan's successor as Bishop of Penang was once his assistant in Singapore? Source: Archdiocese of Singapore; The Catholic News

Reviewed: Nothing Was Delivered
Comment: Personal preference for the main hook, and open to having it run on April Fools' Day 2021 if it is deemed sufficiently quirky.

Created by Bloom6132 (talk). Self-nominated at 02:35, 15 April 2020 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall:

All three hooks verified. Gatoclass (talk) 21:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requiem Mass[edit]

From the cited source: Upon reaching there, he would celebrate a mass for the departed souls. That is not a "missa pro populo" which is for the living. Missa pro populo (Latin: "Mass for the people") is a term used in liturgical texts and rules of the Catholic Church. It refers to the requirement of all ordained pastors to say Mass for the people of their parish. This is as opposed to a Mass said for a particular person, for the benefit of the celebrant alone, or for the benefit of the dead (see Requiem Mass). This requirement is often linked to the term parochial Mass, referring to the Mass said in the parochial or parish church. Cited source specifically rules out pro populo! Elizium23 (talk) 14:19, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: had no comment on this factual error during review. Elizium23 (talk) 14:38, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably better off pinging the main author, rather than me. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:45, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Active voice[edit]

I am not sure why there was an objection to use of the active voice Chan blessed the statue..." I have scoured the sources (now is the first time I look at them) so don't accuse me of plagiarizing them because the only source that mentions it, uses passive voice. Kind of ironic. Elizium23 (talk) 14:26, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: Failing to see any irony here. I wasn't accusing you of plagiarism for this sentence. My edit summary was in reference to you changed the wording to he "supported the Council of Christian Churches" – well, the source says "he was an active supporter of the Council of Christian Churches". So my point stands. —Bloom6132 (talk) 15:35, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cancer[edit]

In spite of his ill health, he attended two out of the four sessions of the Second Vatican Council in 1962 and 1964
Cited source: He attended two sessions of the Vatican Council in 1962 and 1964 until he was stricken by cancer
I had attempted to remove the phrase to conform better with NPOV but it appears it does not even conform with WP:V. Elizium23 (talk) 14:50, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: Did you read the sentence immediately preceding it? There are three different sources cited saying that he had cancer as early as 1963. So when he was attending the Vatican II session (the 1964 session, at the very least), he most definitely had cancer. —Bloom6132 (talk) 15:28, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]