Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rowing/Archive 5

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WP 1.0 bot announcement

This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:51, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Sports Notability

There is discussion ongoing at Wikipedia_talk:BIO#RFC:_WP:Athlete_Professional_Clause_Needs_Improvement debating possible changes to the WP:ATHLETE notability guideline. As a result, some have suggested using WP:NSPORT as an eventual replacement for WP:ATHLETE. Editing has begun at WP:NSPORT, please participate to help refine the notability guideline for the sports covered by this wikiproject. —Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 03:40, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Saturday's Featured Article...

... is going to be Jesus College Boat Club (Oxford), to mark the last day of Eights Week. As we've got friends coming for the weekend, I'm unlikely to be able to keep an eye on the article on the day, so if a few extra people could add it to their watchlists and keep an eye out for sly vandalism or accidental errors, that'd be grand. The anti-vandalism patrol should be able to cope with the usual addition of rude words etc... This will be the first time that a rowing-related article has been selected as Today's Featured Article. Thanks, BencherliteTalk 09:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Halkett boat

The article Halkett boat was promoted to FA status by the editor who started it, and those who contributed heavily to it. It's an interesting article, but not especially encyclopedic.

According to the process of reassessing FA status, I'm leaving notification here, and inviting wider comment.[1] Regards, Piano non troppo (talk) 09:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Working on a school project

Hey everyone I'm working on a project at Cornell University, in which a team of students takes a wikipedia page to edit. My group is working on the Schuylkill Navy. If anyone has any advice for how to attack this page please reach out to us. Thanks! Andrew, Eddie, and Janice ~~~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aaramsey33 (talk • contribs) 06:13, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Olympic rowers

@Schwede66 and Lugnuts: you seem to be completing biographies for all Olympic rowers. Do you have a page tracking progress of that process? As far as I know, there are still quite some biographies missing for participants 1988 or 1992 through 2012, and maybe a few ones for earlier editions of the Olympic Games. It’s a bit difficult to track based on enwiki information I am aware of, to be honest. —MisterSynergy (talk) 13:08, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi MS. I'm just working through each event, one by one, at each Olympics, until I get to 2012. All the ones I've created can be found here. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 13:14, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Do you have a list of missing biographies somewhere, or do you create one (maybe not publicly accessible) each time you start with a new event based on details at SR? —MisterSynergy (talk) 14:02, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't have a list, I just fill in the redlinks as I get to each event, using SR as my reference point. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 14:04, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Oh wait, sorry, there is this list which uses Wikidata to look at the top 3,000 missing (male) articles that have a Sports Ref ID on WikiData and an article on at least one other language wiki. I created it based on the missing female biographies list that already existed. But these are specific to rowing, but cover all the Olympics. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 14:08, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Mh, that doesn’t help me as I am looking exactly for the ones which are still missing in Wikidata. According to SR/oly/row, 6204 male and 1483 female individuals have participated at the Olympics in rowing, and we have around 6019 males and 1459 females of them in Wikidata (query). I don’t think that numbers will match exactly once we have all participants, but right now there are some 210 or so missing and unfortunately it is not so simple to identify them. Participation data at Wikidata is still far from being complete, although we are working to improve it. —MisterSynergy (talk) 15:14, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Well, Lugnuts is creating the missing bios and I'm concentrating (mostly) on the Wikidata side of things. Like Lugnuts, I'm working through it year by year and event by event. I'm currently at Rowing at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Men's eight. For a while, I've tried to keep up with Lugnuts but boy, that's a steep ask! So I've eased back to make sure that things are tidy. I've noticed that there are a few Wikidata editors around who set up a new item quite readily without first checking whether a person already has an entry; they must be assisted by a tool. I suppose merging items is easy enough. When I go through the events, I try and identify the coxes (at this point, the 1924 Belgian M8+ had two coxes and seven rowers so something's not quite right...) and amend the event entries, bios and Wikidata items accordingly.
MisterSynergy, I wanted to ask you whether you can write two queries with which I can check my thoroughness by Olympic year: (1) For a given Olympic year, do all entries point to an Olympic rowing event rather than the Olympic year (e.g. for 1920, no rower or coxswain bio should point to D:Q8128 but they should all point to one of the individual events that are part of D:Q909971)? (2) For a given Olympic year, do all rower or coxswain bios have an entry for Property:P1447 (the Sports Reference ID)? Schwede66 18:33, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Same here, it is a bit difficult to keep up with the pace. Right now I focus on a rather basic set of claims for new items (human+gender, occupation, citizenship, sports-reference ID, and with automation scripts also labels, descriptions, givennames and familynames). Later on when all Olympic rowers are there I’ll try to go more into detail (date/place of birth/death, event participation and eventually results, FISA and Olympic.org IDs, identify coxes, all kinds of consistency checks, and so on).
What’s quite useful to find existing items for new articles is this petscan result (articles in Category:Rowers and subcategories, without Wikidata item; has some lag right now, typically it empties much quicker), and the therein provided links to the duplicity tool (“check Wikidata”).
Regarding queries: there is still a lot to do. There are ~5k participation at Olympic Games statements (query; remove the # to limit to a particular Games edition); I plan to tidy this with an automation script at some point as well, so that only individual rowing events are used. The other requested query is this one, with only very little results.
Btw. if any of you didn’t hear about it: SR’s successor is meanwhile online, at www.olympicchannel.com/en/athletes/. This is work in progress, with many features from SR sill missing, but the end of SR is quite close. We do already have Olympics.com athlete ID (P5815) for the new database at Wikidata, but we hope to get a mapping table of identifiers from SR to OC, which would be fed to Wikidata automatically (which means: there is no need to look up identifiers of the new page manually at this point). —MisterSynergy (talk) 21:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
This query might also be interesting to see on per-event level how many rowers are already connected to a Olympic rowing event with participant in (P1344), and how many are missing. —MisterSynergy (talk) 22:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
@MisterSynergy:, @Schwede66: - I've now completed all the missing biographies for the Olympic rowers. As far as I can tell, everyone now has an article. The numbers are slightly down (by one or two) for the 2008 and 2012 categories vs. the numbers given on Sports Reference, but from experience I believe the article(s) exist, but don't have the year category on them. However, I'm not going to spend anytime checking those, so apologies for that. From the mising (male) list linked above, there's a couple of ones still on the list, but they're from the 1906 Games, and that's a whole grey area for me (although the ones I checked won medals). If you find any missing biographies, I'm more than happy to create them, so drop a note on my talkpage if I've missed any. Likewise with duplications of existing articles. MisterSynergy has pinged me with a few of those, and I don't mind merging/redirecting if you find any of those too. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:15, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
That's awesome. Thank you so much! Schwede66 19:30, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, User:Lugnuts. Your project motivated me to make Wikidata complete in terms of Olympic rowers as well, a project which was long overdue anyway:
  • To the best of my knowledge, there are only some rowers missing for the 1900 edition (around 10), and more than 100 for the 1906 Intercalated Games regatta. All others are likely complete, although I have to cross-check this once again. It is very easy to miss replaced athletes, unfortunately…
  • All Olympic rowers have all their Olympic participations stated with participant in (P1344) claims, and references to their Sports-Reference profile. Final rankings, team memberships and maybe final times will follow as qualifiers later.
  • This petscan query lists biographies which might be missing or might lack proper categorization in enwiki. It lists 7 cases right now, and possibly some 1900 and 1906 participants are also missing.
  • This petscan query lists six persons which are categorized as Olympic rowers here in enwiki, but they did not actively participate (alternate athletes, illnesses, and so on; you might want to remove them from the category)
  • I have added FISA profiles to Olympic rowers as much as possible at Wikidata. All 1483 females have a FISA profile linked, but in around 100 cases of male rowers I don’t manage to find one. Quite often these persons have participated in heats, but they were replaced for the Olympic final and FISA probably just has no information about them. Lots of the linked profiles are yet empty anyways, but maybe FISA one day manages to add Olympic results as well.
  • I plan to do the same for the IOC database, which is rather crappy however. Regarding the new OlympicChannel database (the SR replacement): we hope to get a mapping table that we can feed into Wikidata later on; that would immediately allow us to cover ~90% of all Olympic participants.
In another independent, but related project I updated SR links in Wikidata, for all Olympic participants (i.e. not only rowers), in a way that we do not link to outdated profiles any longer. Those outdated profiles are residuals by the SR update process (overwrite old files on the server, but if there is a new identifier, the old profile is neither overwritten nor deleted). Current SR profiles are linked from the SR athletes index, while outdated ones are not. (Lugnuts: this is how I found most of the duplicates).
Anyway, this is a significant progress, both for enwiki’s and Wikidata’s rowing projects. Nevertheless, I think we can still polish and refine a lot of things … :-) —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

TFD notification

Only WP:CFB was notified. I think all relevant sports should participate in this discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 April 4#Athletic program head coaches navboxes.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:10, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Continental rowing championships

Hey rowing experts, in Template:Rowing competitions there are red links to Oceania Rowing Championships and Pan American Rowing Championships, but I have difficulties to verify that such championships exist or have ever existed. Does anyone know whether these two continental rowing championships are actually real? Do we have any relevant sources for such events? The "Pan American Rowing Championships" can easily be confused with Rowing at the Pan American Games, but this is not what I am looking for.

I do know that there are European Rowing Championships (since 1893, with gaps), African Rowing Championships (since 1993), Asian Rowing Championships (since 1985), and South American Rowing Championships (since 1931, Mexico southwards). With those four regattas only, there are no continental rowing championships for Oceania and US/Canada and thus I am curious… —MisterSynergy (talk) 20:39, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

When you look at the template's edit history, you will see that it started out with a straight copy of Template:Wrestling and with the second edit, the term "wrestling" got replaced with "rowing". It would thus be fair to assume that it was just a wild guess that these competitions all exist and if there is no evidence for it, we'll just nuke those red links. I've done so. Schwede66 23:41, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I meanwhile recognized that as well and made some other changes to the template. Re. "Pan American Rowing Championships" I am not fully sure whether they really never existed, as such a regatta was apparently advertised in five "Rowing News" issues in 1998 [2] ("August 1-2 Pan American Rowing Championships Fanshawe Lake, London, Ontario"). There were no Pan Am Games in that year, but one year later they were held including rowing events in Canada on Minnedosa Lake. Do we have someone here with knowledge about US rowing or Canadian rowing? —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:08, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

"Rowing administrators" and "Rowing officials"

Hey WikiProject, there are categories Category:Rowing administrators and its sub-category Category:Rowing officials. As a non-native speaker of English I have difficulties to understand the difference between "administrators" and "officials". The category hierarchy indicates that officials are a subclass of administrators (or, in other words, (rowing) officials are always also (rowing) administrators, but not vice versa). However, that alone does not really help me to understand the difference. Can someone please enlighten me about the difference, either with some formal definition or a descriptive explanation? Maybe some examples would help as well… (Sorry for the non-rowing-related question). Thanks, MisterSynergy (talk) 22:04, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

I see that Category:Rowing administrators has two sub-categories: Category:Rowing officials and Category:Rowing coaches. I'm not sure that the words necessarily make any distinction between officials and administrators clear, but that's the way our predecessors have set it up and I can't suggest any obvious improvement. In normal terminology in rowing in Britain, "administrators" is a term perhaps more used for those in office within the governing body, whereas "officials" is a term used for those such as umpires, marshals, and event organisers; many people, of course, work in both capacities. The fact that nobody had seen fit to reply to your question since you raised it in September until you prompted me on my user talk page suggests that there is no strong objection to the status quo. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:13, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, this helps a lot.
I am not here to object the status quo. I am primarily curious about the differences in order to learn which sort of information is conveyed by these two terms. My native language German does not clearly make this distinction as far as I am aware, and translations are somewhat ambiguous.
On a side note I have mention that most of the direct current members of Category:Rowing officials seem to be "rowing administrators" according to your definition. Would you agree? How likely is it that non-British native English speakers use these terms differently? —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:38, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
I agree that under the terminology that I described, those various individuals (including at least 3 presidents of FISA) would fit as "administrators", but I haven't looked to see whether the editors who first took the decisions on categorisation of those individuals were native English speakers or not. I notice, however, that the editor who set up the two categories in the first place is an Englishman, so you may wish to ask Jonathan for his views? --David Biddulph (talk) 09:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
I assume that User:Jpbowen was already notified by your comment, and I would appreciate his input here.
I meanwhile found that Wikimedia Commons uses a similar terminology:
With this background, I do want to suggest some changes to the enwiki categorization now:
Problem is that Category:Rowing officials would then be empty with no interwikilinks. I am sure that we can find actual rowing officials (umpires) to categorize there, however. Opinions? —MisterSynergy (talk) 10:36, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
For me (and an Englishman!), "administrators" is a general term for those involved with organization, "officials" are those with official duties representing an organization (e.g., Henley Stewards), and coaches are those helping with training. So the current hierarchy seems reasonable to me. I hope this helps! — Jonathan Bowen (talk) 23:27, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you; whether it helps… I'm not sure, at least for my understanding :-) By your definition, "(rowing) official" is a term that has a broader meaning than activities related to umpiring; this somewhat contrasts what I have learned from the comments that arrived earlier in this section and my grasp of the enwiki and commonswiki category trees as outlined above. As I am obviously not an expert in this field, I will not change any categorization in enwiki, but I will make some interwiki changes as proposed in my Jan-16 comment above.
There is no further need for input from my side at this point. Thank you all for your comments! —MisterSynergy (talk) 09:28, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Discord

Hey all, I hope everyone is safe and healthy. My name is HickoryOughtShirt?4 and I'm a member of WikiProject Ice Hockey. I was wondering if there was any interest in starting a WikiProject Sports channel on Discord? There's quite a few of us who are interested in sports, and I think it would be a good idea to help the WikiProject recruit more members. You guys can join us through here.HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 00:10, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

World Rowing Website, related to the previous section

Hi all, I'm working on Matyáš Klang. With the new World Rowing website, is there a way of linking directly to results? I'm trying to figure out how to best cite it as a reference for him being on the Czech men's 8 squad that won bronze at the 2012 European Championships. Thanks Red Fiona (talk) 00:15, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

As much as I am aware, there is no possibility to directly link to a results page in the way you are trying to. With the new website they have introduced a pretty cool API to retrieve athlete info and results in raw data (JSON) format—but they also failed badly with their web UI that makes heavy use of Javascript basically everywhere. This means that you either need to access Klang's profile and navigate to the results (2 clicks: "see all race results", scroll to the race and then "view details"), or go via the 2012 ERCH regatta page and open the race result of the M8+ final ("see details"). The API call [3] for his profile does include this race result information directly, but it is not (really) human-readable and thus not suitable for a reference. —MisterSynergy (talk) 00:41, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, I think the regatta page is probably the way forward (mutters in frustrated Wikipedian about all the organisations who get spiffy new websites that don't do what I need them to do). Red Fiona (talk) 11:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Alleged BLP violation

On my user talk page, I've been accused of BLP violation. The other editor says this about Pauline Janson (emphasis as per the original): "There is no mention of a marriage in the reference you are using to claim she married." I maintain that this edit reflects what is stated in the archived Sports Reference website and I see that the change in surname has been adopted by the Olympedia database. Ping to Canadian Paul as one of the Olympedia gatekeepers (I'm not aware that you have this project on your watchlist). Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Schwede66 01:13, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

It's a BLP violation the way you wrote it. I don't think you can make any kind of claim that this name change took place because she got married, nor can you make any claim that this happened before or after the Olympics. Not based on that one source. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:46, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis and sports

New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:00, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

New Worldrowing.com website: tons of dead links

Worldrowing today launched their new website… and most URLs have changed so that the content is no longer accessible from the old ones. Special:LinkSearch/www.worldrowing.com can be used to assess the damage to our project. Particularly athlete bios and event result pages are not accessible any longer.

Since the new website has just launched today and is apparently not yet completely stable, I recommend to wait a couple of days until we actually change something here, in case we want to. —MisterSynergy (talk) 18:37, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Any word from them whether they want to map old URLs to the new ones? Or how they want to manage the transition? Schwede66 18:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
Not that I knew. As I do not have a contact point at FISA, I tried to contact them via Twitter an hour ago or so. No reply yet. —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:11, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

I managed to compile a mapping table of old numeric identifiers and new UUID identifiers. At wikidata:Wikidata:Property proposal/World Rowing ID, I have proposed a new Wikidata property for the new URL scheme. I would appreciate support votes by interested users over there, in order to get this property approved. Once this is done and I have all identifiers imported to Wikidata, we can elaborate a plan to (automatically) migrate identifiers in Wikipedia as well. This should be possible in roughly two weeks from now. —MisterSynergy (talk) 14:02, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Alright, the new identifiers have found their way to Wikidata and I would be able to fix a good part of this here at English Wikipedia as well: basically all template transclusions of {{FISA}} outside of references—assuming we change the URL scheme in that template, of course. Procedurally, what would be the right way to do this? I would of course automate this process, just as I did yesterday in German Wikipedia (see de:Special:Contributions/MsynBot). Do I need to get a bot with botflag approved, of could I gently and slowly do this using my regular account? —MisterSynergy (talk) 21:45, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure how that works, but WP:BAG would be a good place to ask about this. Schwede66 23:22, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
I'm generally not an enthusiast for Wikidata, but (given that FISA's recent changes have screwed things up not just for enwiki but for other languages too) this does seem a suitable use for Wikidata, and for a bot where appropriate. Well done for your efforts so far. As well as the athlete IDs, I have found from my own website that many links to event pages for various championships have been broken, which is very frustrating. If you haven't a specific contact point in FISA and they're still not responding to Twitter enquiries, they have a general email address info@fisa.org but I think that many people from their office are at home at present. - David Biddulph (talk) 04:55, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
It is not necessary to make use of Wikidata here. I would be able to replace the old identifiers with the new ones using a script, so we won't have to look up thousands of new identifiers manually. I just happen to be a Wikidata enthusiast, so I usually have a Wikidata-first workflow that makes my subsequent editing in Wikipedias easier even if no direct data use from Wikidata is involved. —MisterSynergy (talk) 12:28, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
My reservations about Wikidata are partly about changes outside the control of enwiki but primarily the fundamental limitation to one-to-one mapping, giving severe problems when the breakdown of articles differs between different language Wikipedias. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:51, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
It's okay to have reservations. The one-to-one mapping problem can be mitigated with several workarounds, depending a bit on the excat situation which one to choose. In fact, the same problem existed already before Wikidata, as you can only link to one interwiki page per different language Wikipedia anyways. It is just more visible now, after most of the interwiki mess had been cleaned up.
Anyways, I will figure out how to migrate these identifiers locally. Its a bureaucratic burden, since technically I would be prepared to start immediately. —MisterSynergy (talk) 19:01, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
FISA have tweeted this morning: "We have experienced some issues with past events and results and everything should be back in a couple of days." https://twitter.com/WorldRowing/status/1345996757365358593 — Preceding unsigned comment added by David Biddulph (talk • contribs) 08:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
The website has improved a lot meanwhile, but some things are still broken; racing split times and some info from the athlete profiles, such as club affiliations, have disappeared apparently. —MisterSynergy (talk) 01:02, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Nov 2021 situation

It seems like WorldRowing has changed their URL scheme again, to a version that uses the old identifiers again. Since I have not used their website for a while: has anyone observed when this was changed?

Anyways, it should now be rather simple to switch enwiki profile links to the new website via Template:World Rowing. —MisterSynergy (talk) 16:36, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Guus van Ditzhuyzen at AfD

Hi. Please see this discussion. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:50, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

per WP:APPNOTE - "The talk page or noticeboard of one or more WikiProjects or other Wikipedia collaborations which may have interest in the topic under discussion"

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

  • John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

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