Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Archive 8

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Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit war at Template:Largest cities of Israel

There has been edit warring going on involving an IP editor who even continued the edit war on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring itself. I have not reverted their edits yet, as I wanted to bring it up here first. — Sebastian 04:23, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Trigger for each outbreak of conflict

See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history#Pretext_or_trigger_event_guidance. Oncenawhile (talk) 22:00, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Proposed merger of attacks articles

This section was originally named "Context for events".

There is List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel and there is List of Israeli attacks on the Gaza strip. There are other similar lists and separate articles on different violent (or otherwise related to conflict) events. This structure doesn't let one track the connection between the separate events. Often an action by one side is declared to be a reaction to an action by the other side, and when we list them separately it's hard to provide the context.

One solution is to add context for each of the attacks on their own articles/lists - but it would cause repetition and allow for WP:POVFORKs, since the same event can be described differently in different articles. Another solution that I'm considering is to merge these lists and split them by time rather than by side - so there is a timeline article for each year, listing all the major events in that year in the order they happened, noting when one event was declared to be caused by another (by either side or by outside analysts) , wikilinking to complete articles when they exist.

What do you think ?“WarKosign” 06:35, 31 March 2015 (UTC) I tagged the question as an RfC. “WarKosign” 08:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Comments

Interesting suggestion. I think this is fine in theory, but how will you deal with the many rocket / missile attacks whose context is a land-based attack / incursion? Oncenawhile (talk) 07:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

@Oncenawhile:Look for example at List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2009 - it doesn't list every individual rocket fired during Operation Cast Lead, instead for the related period it refers to Gaza War (2008–09)#Rocket attacks into Israel. There is no need to change that, the timeline article on 2009 should provide a quick overview of the conflict and link to the full article. “WarKosign” 07:31, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

@WarKosign, All Rows4, and Oncenawhile: - WarKosign's proposal would (hopefully) achieve the same affect as my proposal to amplify the name of the article (and sub-articles) List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel to include attacks 'going the other way'. The basic issue is that List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel obstructs the core Wiki principle of balancing POVs with other views so as to achieve WP:NPOV. There are editors who want to preserve this unbalanced structure because it creates an impression favorable to their agenda , and rigidly delete any edits that bring context to the rocket fire, 'because it conflicts with the Article Name', thus artificially preserving the imbalance - see recent Edit History in the article List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel, 2002–06. There are other editors, like WarKosign who are amenable to attempting to achieve WP:NPOV and for these reasons I Strongly Support his merger proposal.Erictheenquirer (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

An issue that I can already identify is that the proposed merged article will soon become bloated with trivia, e.g. 'IJ launches rocket that lands in open field; no injuries' or 'The IDF fired warning shots at metal gatherers in the Gaza buffer zone; no one hurt". One suggestion is to remove all entries that did not result in injuries or deaths, and then to review the filter criteria. These trivial aggressions can be catered for in annual summaries: "During 2006 Palestinian Attacks from Gaza - AAA; BBB; CCC / Israeli attacks on Gaza - XXX; YYY; ZZZ. Erictheenquirer (talk) 10:56, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

I'd keep the summary in the timeline - for quiet months a monthly summary is sufficient, for busy period we need a detailed day-by-day report.“WarKosign” 11:37, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

@All Rows4, Plot Spoiler, Flynn58, Igorp lj, Necrothesp, Gregkaye, Nishidani, Brewcrewer, Mbcap, Kingsindian, and Ykantor: - Do you have any comments on, or support/opposition to, WarKosign's merger proposal, as opposed to the renaming proposal under Talk:Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel? I judge that they would have the same effect. Erictheenquirer (talk) 09:52, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Support, I see no issue with the merger proposal. Flynn58 (talk) 23:05, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

There seems to be no objection. What is the proper way to proceed ? We are talking about a fairly large-scale change, affecting tens of pages. Should we call more people to this discussion to make sure the consensus holds, or should we just go ahead and begin making the changes ? I think I would begin with creating "2006 in Israel-Palestine conflict" out of relevant portions of the lists of attacks, once it's more or less complete I'd continue with subsequent years until present, then go back into the past.“WarKosign” 08:03, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

I actually object. This is a "List of..." type article, not a generic article about these rocket attacks. As such ,it does not need "context" (which is a euphemism for providing rationalizations and exculpatory excuses on behalf of Hamas and others firing these rocket.). Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists, it needs 'A well-written lead section', but 'little or no prose in their article body.'. All Rows4 (talk) 18:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

@All Rows4: Please read carefully what the actual proposal is. I did not propose to add context sections to current lists, I proposed to merge separate lists of attacks from different direction into a unified list of events. I agree that adding a context section is prone to POV pushes, this is why I want the context to emerge naturally from the listed events, the reader will be able to see what happened after what instead of an editor deciding what is and what isn't relevant as a background. “WarKosign” 19:55, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

thanks for the clarification. Your proposal to merge the individual lists into one list, with no context section, is fine with me. All Rows4 (talk) 21:17, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

---

It is good that this discussion reached a consensus quickly. But there are a couple questions remaining:

1. There is already a merge request for List of Israeli attacks on the Gaza strip ∞ List of Israeli attacks on Palestine, which has found consensus since August 2014; I presume that should be included in the merge.
2. What should the title of the merged article be?
3. There is currently a sidebar in the P→I article, which as it is can't be kept in the merged article. Would another sidebar make sense?

— Sebastian 08:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

@SebastianHelm:

1. Each of the two articles is merely a list of links to other articles, according to this proposal the linked articles themselves should be merged with similar articles detailing Palestinian attacks on Israel, so these two lists would become irrelevant.
2. I was thinking about using Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict as a base, and linking to an article for every decade or year such as Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2006) from there.
3. Which P→I article and what sidebar ? I was thinking about some template that would go at bottom/top/side of each timeline article to allow easy navigation, like one of these. “WarKosign” 09:07, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Wow, that's much more involved than I thought! I had thought it was just a merge of these three pages (the third one being what I abbreviated P→I; I thought the arrow was a good stand-in for a rocket.). But it seems nobody here objects, so if you're up for the task, I won't hold you up with further discussion. Good success! — Sebastian 07:02, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Requested move of Islam and antisemitism

Someone requested to move Islam and antisemitism to Islam and Judeophobia. See Talk:Islam and antisemitism#Requested move 25 May 2015 for further details. And kindly register your opinion. --Human3015 Say Hey!! • 03:58, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Jerusalem in Israel?

See WT:WikiProject Israel#Jerusalem in Israel — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 04:25, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

More eyes needed ..

More eyes needed here: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#The_Palestine_Post, cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:38, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

RFC: Is the One Million Plan relevant to the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries?

See the RFC at:

Talk:Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries#RFC:_Is_the_One_Million_Plan_relevant_to_the_topic_of_this_article?.

Oncenawhile (talk) 15:19, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

RFC List of military occupations

There is an RFC here that you may be interested in.-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 18:52, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

note

Hi all. just saying hello. hope all positive efforts can continue and develop. --Sm8900 (talk) 01:24, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2015) listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2015) to be moved to Israeli–Palestinian wave of violence (2015–present). This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 19:00, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

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Proposed article move from Syro-Palestinian archaeology to Levantine archaeology

There is a proposal to move from Syro-Palestinian archaeology to Levantine archaeology here and to create separate pages for Archaeology of Syria and Archaeology of Palestine. Your opinions would be welcome, thanks! Drsmoo (talk) 12:15, 22 December 2015 (UTC)