Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Archive84

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Good article reassessment for Elite Ice Hockey League

Elite Ice Hockey League has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flames Central

Hi all, I just noticed the deletion discussion for Flames Central. Wracking talk! 05:02, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Merge discussion on 2018 Hockey Canada sexual assault

In November, 162 etc. began a discussion about merging 2018 Hockey Canada controversy and sexual assault into Hockey Canada sexual assault scandal. The discussion has picked up given recent news. I'd like to see if we can reach some sort of consensus there. Wracking talk! 00:38, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Jonathon Blum

Jonathon Blum has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 20:00, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

AAA statistics in BLPs

A certain editors thinks that career statistics from levels like AAA should be removed. A discussion can be found at Talk:Cale Makar#Career stats. – sbaio 15:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Statistics from non-notable teams are trivial. This project used to include only junior hockey and professional statistics. Why are we as a project trying to include every statistic we can find? If a person did anything notable in minor ice hockey, it can be included in the prose, such as Wayne Gretzky. Flibirigit (talk) 15:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
I completely agree with what you wrote and think that anything pre-junior should not be listed. Why and when was this changed? Has it been discussed at all or some editor just started adding those? – sbaio 16:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
The last discussion I recall was circa 2008–2009. Nothing was added to Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format regarding which statistics qualify for inclusion. I think the minor hockey statistics were since expanded by good faith editors, and nobody challenged. Flibirigit (talk) 20:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
Courtesy pings to @Kaiser matias and Ravenswing:, who were involved in writing the above format. Flibirigit (talk) 21:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
I'll note that when I was going through and adding stats to existing articles, I went with what was readily available and published, often from the NHL's site directly (before their latest, terrible site update). That said, I'm not for or against it, and would be fine with junior (15/16-20 year old; think CHL, BCHL, USHL, etc) and above only. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:26, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
I actually didn't have a whole lot to do with that page, except in so far that it includes the old standards for ice hockey notability that I authored. I quite agree that sub-junior hockey is non-notable, and I think with the exception of eliteprospects.com, none of the significant stat sites we use (Hockey DB, hockey-reference, the NHL's site, Sports Forecaster, etc) mentions it. Ravenswing 00:34, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Large addition to Potential National Hockey League expansion

Hi all, just putting some eyes on this. An IP editor recently added nearly 10k bits to Potential National Hockey League expansion, adding sections about Milwaukee and Hartford. They provided some sources, but some paragraphs have no footnotes.

They had previously made an unsourced addition which I reverted (I was especially wary given our recent hoaxster). I also left a message inviting them to continue contributing while providing sources.

In the spirit of WP:PRESERVE and WP:BITE, I think we should try to see how this addition can be improved (e.g. do the existing footnotes also verify unsourced text?) Wracking talk! 00:27, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

List of Hockey Night in Canada commentating crews (1990s) and similar articles

By similar I mean: 1980s, 1970s, and 1960s. Aside from being very trivial, is there anything notable about listing the HNIC crews for every playoff game? I find more notability about the crew differing season-by-season, but entire articles devoted to just the playoff games seems like WP:LISTCRUFT, not to mention that each reference is a YouTube video. Conyo14 (talk) 01:15, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Blank and merge to List of Hockey Night in Canada commentators. Totally listcruft. 162 etc. (talk) 01:34, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Some of those pages are definitely over sourced. GoodDay (talk) 01:43, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Agree with 162 etc., especially given the lack of independent sourcing. (The videos are cool, though.) Wracking talk! 01:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
I'll definitely do that, but if someone undoes my edit, then I will take it to AFD. Conyo14 (talk) 02:08, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

As expected, the edit was undone. I am taking this to AFD. Conyo14 (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've restored your 're-direct' edits to three of them. Will leave the 1990's one alone, as you've opened an AfD there. Also, invited @Khoa41860: (opposing individual) to appear 'here'. GoodDay (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
I appreciate it. The discussion can be found here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Hockey Night in Canada commentating crews (1990s) Conyo14 (talk) 17:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Medal tables in BLPs

The discussion above about AAA and similar statistics has naturally raised other concerns. Why do we duplicate information regarding medals on BLPs? I see no reason to add a medal table and then list the same information in the international statistics table. I went through the archives of WT:NHL and it seems that there was never any consensus to add separate medal tables. – sbaio 06:44, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

The medal tables were the original style, and at some point results were added to international stats. I am opposed to the latter, for two reasons: most international athletes have a medal table across the site, and for players on teams that don't medal I find it a little ridiculous to note that they played 8th overall or whatever. Keep the stats tables to stats, and the medals to the medal table. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:46, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
I like the results column. Even though it is redundant it serves a different purpose, that being displaying the medals chronologically instead of by event and medal. It takes up a small amount of space and on larger articles can be pretty far removed from the medal table. For non-medalists, readers may still be looking for a player's finishes at their international events, and given how little space it takes up it seems worth it. For players with medals, it adds some visual interest to the section.Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 00:19, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
In my opinion, medals in the stats table provide context for player performance within specific tournaments (for example, a player may accumulate two points with a gold medal team versus fifteen points with a seventh place team). Of course, prose should also provide such context but the stats table is a different format that some readers may find more accessible. For what it’s worth, I think having medals in the stats table is more valuable than using a medal table at all – medal tables provide very little useful information beyond the obvious. Spitzmauskc (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Constant vandalism of NHL teams' infobox, concerning owners

I may have asked this before. But, is there anyway we can get an administrator to semi-protect all 30 NHL team pages, from the IP & Mobile editor(s) who keep changing team owners to a player's name or other teams, after that player had a big part in defeating the team the previous game or a team defeated another team? This is been going on over a year, now. GoodDay (talk) 16:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Another potential idea: would it be possible to create an edit filter to catch these kinds of edits? Seems like it would be an easy thing to isolate, but I don't know much about creating them. Connormah (talk) 17:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Maybe we can gather up several diffs and put in a request at Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested? Connormah (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Sounds great. GoodDay (talk) 18:47, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Here's some recent diffs:
Wracking talk! 21:14, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Always Tom Wilson, smh. A script/bot would be nice in preventing these vandals. Conyo14 (talk) 21:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
I have to say I’m rather surprised Wilson isn’t indefinitely protected, considering his rather controversial nature. The Kip 00:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Looks like the edit filter already exists, but we may want to request that it is changed in some way (e.g. disallowing instead of just tagging). See filter 735. Wracking talk! 22:10, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
I don't know how an edit filter would distinguish between a valid edit and an invalid one, though. isaacl (talk) 23:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Maybe it's possible for it to disallow unregistered editors (the vast majority of this vandalism) and tag all other edits? Wracking talk! 23:38, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Maybe allow only extended confirmed users. Conyo14 (talk) 23:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
Something I've wondered, is if it would be possible to make the owner parameter pull from a separate module, which itself could be heavily protected, allowing IPs to edit other aspects of the infobox. I'm thinking of how team colors are added to the infobox borders and related templates - via Module:Sports color/ice hockey rather than at the template level. I also don't know how this back end thing works, but it's not like ownership legitimately changes frequently, so having all 32 teams pull from one doc shouldn't be that inconvenient I would think. Echoedmyron (talk) 11:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
It could be done, but... the infobox template itself would have to be protected to keep the call to the module from being altered. Then the team pages themselves would have to be protected to prevent the infobox from being replaced. (The information could also be pulled from the wikidata project, but that just pushes the vandalism problem to there, and I imagine there are fewer people who would feel comfortable reverting changes on wikidata.) isaacl (talk) 18:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

BLP heads up

Some additional eyes on Cal Foote, Michael McLeod (ice hockey), Carter Hart, Dillon Dube and Alex Formenton would probably be a good idea over the next few weeks. Connormah (talk) 18:23, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

NOTE: These biographies relate to the 2018 Hockey Canada controversy and sexual assault and Hockey Canada sexual assault scandal. According to the Globe and Mail, players were directed to surrender to police in London. Best wishes. Flibirigit (talk) 19:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Might be a solid idea to request temporary protection at WP:RFP. The Kip 19:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
I think it's best to wait for either disruption meriting protection or for major news to break. As it stands, most news in this case has been a slow trickle. As we don't have a clear expected timeline on surrenders, charges, or findings being made public, we have no way of ensuring how brief the protection period would be. (See WP:NO-PREEMPT)
This was a response to a now-removed comment by the Kip: For the reasons I just mentioned (unclear timeline) I think {{Current person}} is inappropriate in this case and should be removed (see template documentation for guidance on placement). Wracking talk! 19:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, opted not to do that. RFP may still be a good route if some less-restrained editors think otherwise, though. The Kip 19:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Makes sense. Wracking talk! 19:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Materialscientist protected (autoconfirmed or confirmed) Carter Hart until February 4. Wracking talk! 01:07, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Seems that McLeod and Foote are now dealing with a similar level of issues, so I'll go ahead and RFP them. The Kip 17:58, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Foote now semi-protected for three days, McLeod for three weeks. The Kip 18:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
TSN is now confirming that the five speculated to be involved are in fact the five surrendering to police, so that needs to be added with attribution (considering it's not a police report yet). McLeod's lawyer did confirm he's facing charges, and Formenton has already surrendered to police, so I feel that the current person template is now appropriate for at least them.
Foote and McLeod's pages are already semi-protected for another two weeks, and Formenton's through April, but Dube and Hart's protections expire in a few days; might be best to keep a closer eye on them. The Kip 21:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure any current event template is necessary - as per the template documentation -

It is not intended to be used to mark an article that merely has recent news articles about the topic; if it were, thousands of articles would have this template.

There is pretty much no rapidly changing or developing news that would warrant several editors to be editing these articles at the same time, and likely to be nothing else more given how tight lipped everything around the case is, so I don't think it is necessary. Connormah (talk) 17:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Unreferenced articles backlog drive

Hi all, I'd like to notify everyone about the February unreferenced articles backlog drive and its intersection with our project.

I have compiled all of the eligible articles from this list into a page: User:Wracking/Unsourced. Other editors are welcome to edit this page (e.g. mark large swathes as completed in the "tackled" column, or mark the articles you'll work on).

See full details on the drive page, and please don't hesitate to reach out to coordinate if you'd like. Wracking talk! 20:45, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

2025 Four-nation tournament

May we clarify here, that 2025 Four-nation tournament is not an edition of the World Cup of Hockey? -- GoodDay (talk) 20:25, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Not even the same format. Might require its own page though. Conyo14 (talk) 20:34, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
It's not, they clarified they hope it's a "gateway" to a regular Olympic/WCOH rotation here. The Kip 20:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Indeed, its needs a page of its own. I've removed mention of it from the World Cup of Hockey page. The next WCOH is planned to be held in 2028 & every four years after, in rotation with the Winter Olympics. GoodDay (talk) 20:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Figure we can start building it out at Draft:NHL 4 Nations Face-Off. The Kip 20:55, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Should it be "4" or "Four"? GoodDay (talk) 20:56, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
The NHL's marketing it as "4," but I'm not sure if that lines up with Wikipedia policy. I prefer going with what they're doing, though. The Kip 20:57, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
When it comes MOS:NUM, integers 0–9 are spelled out, unless they are a proper name per MOS:NUMNOTES. The NHL is marketing it as "4" and assuming that secondary reliable sources are following, which judging by the looks of it, they are, then the article name can have "4". Just keep in mind that the title of the tourney is capitalized. We don't want anyone saying anything otherwise. Conyo14 (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

All Star Game selections, who didn't play

Example pages Carey Price & Mark Messier, recommend review of @47.54.146.218:'s edits on hockey pages. Also, their edit summaries need some toning down. GoodDay (talk) 02:12, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/47.54.146.218 The Kip 02:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Aside from that, I don't entirely see the harm in their edits. They're not really a necessary change, but it's not like they're removing the ASG entirely/claiming because they didn't play they weren't one, and besides that they seem to have become a reasonably productive contributor to Habs pages. They've even removed minor league teams from the "played_for" box of guys who've played top-level pro, which is solid housekeeping. The Kip 02:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
I just figured, perhaps they should get a consensus 'here', for some of their changes. Being bold is encouraged, but there's a line that can be easily crossed, if such changes are forced. GoodDay (talk) 02:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
I agree with The Kip, nothing terrible about their edits. Probably someone new to editing, not even aware of the project's existence. Conyo14 (talk) 03:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Potential National Hockey League expansion moved to Expansion of the National Hockey League

The article "Potential National Hockey League expansion" was moved to Expansion of the National Hockey League. I have started a discussion about the move. Participation is welcome. isaacl (talk) 04:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

List of NHL All-Star Game broadcasters

Yet another list of broadcasters here. However, this one seems to have more notability with the switches of networks over each year, but that being said, I don't know why we need to spell out every play-by-play, colour commentator, ice-level reporter, etc. for each game and each broadcast network. There aren't even refs for some of the list items. I can likely take this to AfD and let that process play out or selectively merge some of the notable content to NHL All-Star Game. Unless someone is passionate about this list staying? Conyo14 (talk) 17:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Seems like something that could be merged into the NHL All-Star Game. Specially, the timeline for each network broadcasting the game could go into the parent article, with the broadcasters for each game being mentioned in the article on that game (if it exists), or a mention in that NHL season's article. Flibirigit (talk) 18:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Games inside team templates

Currently, team temples all have a "Culture and lore" section which often lists notable games the team participated in such as the various outdoor events or "brawl" games or other special games which have their own articles. I'm wondering whether the team template should be updated to split off games into a Games section and keep Culture and lore for that specifically. Jmj713 (talk) 22:45, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Eh, considering there's plenty of teams that have few to no individually-notable games, I'm not sure if it's really necessary to break off. The Kip 06:20, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

AFD of interest

Can anyone find coverage on Ľubomír Pištek, a 400+ game top-tier player at at AFD? BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

College teams in women's hockey infoboxes

Should college teams be included in women's hockey infoboxes? The template says "Professional teams," but I have seen this interpreted as only the top level of play for a given player (i.e. NHL, Liiga, NL; AHL, Mestis, SL). This would mean that for whockey that NCAA/USports teams are not included for those who have played in the PWHL, SDHL, NSML, etc. Many whockey articles, however, do include college teams. Is there a consensus on whether or not they should be included?

Personally, I am against their inclusion, as the PWHL is unambiguously a higher level of play, and is professional. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 18:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

We do not include college teams in infoboxes; for males or females. Flibirigit (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Patrick Roy's QMJHL coaching career

Howdy all,

While I've had this noted on my personal to-do for a bit, I'm bringing it here in hopes it may be seen by someone more familiar with the QMJHL. I noticed a little while ago that Patrick Roy's article currently mentions nothing (not even a single sentence!) about his second tenure as head coach of the Quebec Remparts; seeing as this tenure spanned five seasons (2018/29 to 2022/23) and ended with a QMJHL title followed by a Memorial Cup title, this omission comes off as rather glaring. If there's any QMJHL aficionados here, or any of y'all have more time on their hands than I, could someone update the article at least in brief? The Kip 05:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Ice hockey stats sourcing issue

I have noticed on all ice hockey articles, Template:Ice hockey stats has been used to source career statistics. This template states: Biographical information and career statistics from..... I just wanted to gain consensus here because I have also noticed sometimes the career statistics section is sourced independently with NHL.com or Elite Prospects. I have gotten questioned about this occasionally when nominating an article for DYK because it's all the way at the bottom. Is the template enough or should we be sourcing the tables individually on every article? On Sidney Crosby's article, the template is directly under the Career statistics header. Maybe this is something we should consider? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 21:49, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand why it would be an issue if the person reviewing couldn't just click on the template link. Is it not something they are required to do for all nominated articles? Otherwise, maybe an external link to the stats? Conyo14 (talk) 22:26, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Articles need to be clear where the information came from as per WP:CITE. Standard practice is to use <ref></ref> tags, but sports articles often stray from best practices. Flibirigit (talk) 22:36, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
The template's message ought not to replicate "or" so many times; it reads poorly and ungrammatically. Additionally, it makes it sound like "sure, check one of these; one of them must have the info". If the stats are in all of them, then they should be listed together with commas plus a final "and". If some data comes from one site and other data comes from another (such as data from different leagues coming from different sources), then the note should be more specific about which info can be found from which site. isaacl (talk) 23:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Template naming

Should Template:NHL drafts be moved to Template:NHL Drafts? GoodDay (talk) 00:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about it. It refers to each draft (hence the plural). Conyo14 (talk) 02:41, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
As it's a plural about a general topic (encompassing the entry, supplemental, expansion, etc) rather than a proper name, no. The Kip 04:26, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Players who only appeared as backup goaltenders

Isaac Poulter is dressing as the Devils' backup goalie tonight. Should he be added to categories such as Category:New Jersey Devils players, or does he need to actually take the ice? Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 23:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I would think he'd actually have to step on the ice. Masterhatch (talk) 23:50, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
Usually it’s only if they see ice time. The Kip 00:19, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
The ongoing rule of thumb -- which the NHL, other leagues and all stat compilers follow religiously -- is that you actually have to play to be credited for having played. There are many dozens of goalies who've sat on benches on one-day ATOs without any official credit. Ravenswing 17:51, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
I note that Brett Leonhardt, who dressed twice for the Capitals as an emergency backup goalie (and got a lot of media attention for it), is not in the category of Capitals players, presumably for the reason the other folks above have noted. But if a player takes the ice (other than for warmups) in even one game, even for a minimal amount of time, that's sufficient—Alain Raymond played in goal for the Capitals in one game for two periods and he does appear in the category of Capitals players (and rightly so, of course). 1995hoo (talk) 18:04, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
Can be put in the roster template and the player article. The player has an article so it CAN be mentioned there, if there is a RS. What I wonder about, since it is only fair, is whether you can put the player in the player stats at zeroes? It's a record-keeping nightmare for callups in the press box, but not for backup goalies who are listed in the game summary. Alaney2k (talk) 20:42, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Split History of the National Hockey League (1992-present)

I have started a discussion at Talk:History of the National Hockey League (1992–present) to cap off the current article at 2017, and start a History of the National Hockey League (since 2017) article with some of the current article. 25-year division of the History of articles is a reasonable objective way to split it up. It's a discussion that seems to have been bubbling under the radar for years. Alaney2k (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Potential page moves

A recently closed RFC which (might) effect NHL pages. Could be interpreted as a 'green light' to move pages to lower case (bypassing the RM route), concerning all sports drafts. GoodDay (talk) 23:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Good ol’ Dicklyon and the others’ WP:IDLI assertions that sports editors don’t know what they’re doing.
Until there’s an explicit consensus to apply the same standard to NHL pages, I don’t think we need to follow it, nor should it be forced through by other editors. The Kip 00:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
I agree with this assessment. While it may signal that a discussion may happen based on this, it doesn't mean that other sport leagues should be affected by the outcome. Each league's draft has extensive history that may lead to a different outcome and applying the outcome from the NFL RFC to other league's drafts would be silly. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
@Hey man im josh: My concerns are heightened, seeing as an individual is already looking into bypassing the RM route at USFL Draft & related pages, based on the RFC-in-question. GoodDay (talk) 17:04, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
As the RfC closer, I can confirm that the close applies only to pages related to the NFL draft and has no impact on other leagues or sports. There was some discussion of them at the RfC, but was unrelated to the RfC question or the consensus reached. Anyone trying to use it to bypass discussion on other articles is not interpreting the close correctly. The WordsmithTalk to me 17:15, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
Let's wait and see what happens. It's obviously a very toxic topic. Conyo14 (talk) 01:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Just letting yas know, because hours ago, a page move at National Football League Draft to lowercase draft, occurred without benefit of an RM. GoodDay (talk) 06:39, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
...occurred without benefit of an RM: The RfC close said there was

no consensus that the RfC is invalid or inappropriate

So a request was made at WP:RM/TR and the move was executed by a page mover.—Bagumba (talk) 06:48, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
The request should've been rejected. As many pointed out in the RFC-in-question. An RFC shouldn't be used to 'get around' an RM. GoodDay (talk) 06:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
And that argument was rejected by the RfC close, and clarified further in their followup to you —Bagumba (talk) 07:07, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
I suspect that closure will be challenged at WP:AN, if the RFC continues to be used to bypass the RM process, going forward. GoodDay (talk) 07:12, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

(See below) - Concerning the topic of unilateral page moves. GoodDay (talk) 21:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Heads up—looks like gymrat16/Moka Mo/whatever sockpuppet is back

I see two substantial IP edits to Alexander Ovechkin and Anze Kopitar that use run-on style edit summaries in the same style as gymrat16, and the latter even specifically refers to gymrat16 in the edit summary. I don't have time to parse the two edits at this moment, but I thought I'd flag that we may have yet another sockpuppet. You'd think he wouldn't be so obvious as to refer to himself in the edit summaries.... 1995hoo (talk) 16:39, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Appears to be site-banned Moka Mo signed out, for sure. GoodDay (talk) 16:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
That stuff you just deleted from your talk page was pretty $%^ing funny if he's trying to say he's not the same person.... 1995hoo (talk) 17:15, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
I've requested semi-protection for those bio pages, as the individual is now edit-warring. GoodDay (talk) 17:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
They’ve just openly admitted to being Gymrat at WP:AN, so that’s that. The Kip 19:15, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I think we need to take this to ANI. Unless SPI is more appropriate? Conyo14 (talk) 17:30, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Update I noticed The Wordsmith blocked the mobile IP for 72 hours. I shall place an SPI report for both IPs though. Conyo14 (talk) 17:38, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with this sockmaster, but yes it seems like an obvious logged-out sock. SPI is definitely a good idea so it can be logged. If there are pages that need temporary semiprotection, you can ping me here and I'll take care of it. The WordsmithTalk to me 17:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Moka Mo SPI opened. Conyo14 (talk) 17:47, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

One of the IPs edited Marchand's page (I reverted that IP's changes) and that same editor also made an edit to United Airlines fleet, which was also reverted and an editor in that page indicated that IP is a sockpuppet of Leon103102 (talk · contribs) (I do not know anything about this particular editor aside from its interest in aviation by looking at editing history). – sbaio 19:24, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't know if that sock is related to the above. But from what I know, Gymrat16 has been hotheaded since being blocked, so maybe it's them. However, feel free to SPI them. Conyo14 (talk) 20:54, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Similar activity at Drew Doughty's page. GoodDay (talk) 19:15, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The sock appears to be displaying competency issues, too. GoodDay (talk) 19:41, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Interesting to me to hear that I'm somehow "abusing my power," given that I don't have any power in the first place. 1995hoo (talk) 20:52, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Semiprotection applied on those articles. The WordsmithTalk to me 19:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

And so it continues at the Chicago Blackhawks, Ryan O'Reilly & Ryan Kesler pages. GoodDay (talk) 21:24, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Should this be taken to ANI or is the SPI adequate enough action for now? The Kip 21:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Some kinda wide-range block is required. The sock isn't taking no for an answer. GoodDay (talk) 21:30, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
I’ll get an ANI report typed up later today. The Kip 22:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
No need: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#IP-hopper continuing to disrupt Conyo14 (talk) 23:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

RM opened at NHL Conference Finals

An RM has been opened at the NHL Conference Finals page. GoodDay (talk) 04:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I was just about to say that: Talk:NHL Conference Finals#Requested move 1 March 2024. Dicklyon (talk) 04:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins#Requested move 29 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins#Requested move 29 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

RSEQ women's ice hockey

The article RSEQ women's ice hockey needs to be renamed or clarified or something. The RSEQ is three leagues, the highest level being a conference in the U Sports, but this article is about the second highest of these leagues, in which many players play before entering the U Sports. The title suggests that the article is about all three leagues, or about the university league. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 18:34, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

With this in mind, I suggest we make some changes to the league abbreviations in stats tables for RSEQ players, as I am doing in Draft:Jade Downie-Landry. U Sports players typically show U Sports or CIS in the stats table, but NCAA players show the conference and there is really no reason for this inconsistency that I can tell. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 18:36, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Metropolitan & Atlantic Divisions

Looking at the 2013–14 NHL season to the 2023–24 NHL season pages. Why do we list (in the Eastern Conference standings) the Metropolitan Division ahead of the Atlantic Division? Shouldn't it be in alphabetical order. GoodDay (talk) 22:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Last time you asked this question, one editor suggested that the divisions were listed from west to east. Although for historical purposes I'm a little partial towards a geographically based order, I'm not strongly opinionated on it. isaacl (talk) 22:56, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
I think we need a FAQ on this WikiProject, seeing as my memory sometimes eludes me. GoodDay (talk) 23:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
It doesn't matter which order is followed, as long as it's done consistently season-to-season. The current order is fine as it is. PKT(alk) 11:47, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

List of National Hockey League arenas

What do other editors think about adding interior images to List of National Hockey League arenas? It was added and then I reverted it, but an IP editor restored it so to avoid any edit wars I want to see opinions here. – sbaio 11:22, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

My instinct was to be for it, but after looking at the article in its current state, they all look the same save MSG. I'd remove it. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 15:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
The Kraken's home rink, is something like Ringo Starr's description. Both are/were the oldest in their group, yet also the youngest (i.e. last) to join the group. GoodDay (talk) 16:04, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
I checked over the IP's contrib history. Appears they've been adding a lot of images in sports pages, without seeking a consensus first. GoodDay (talk) 16:16, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

@Sbaio, @Oknazevad @80.57.47.217

  • Strongly opposed When I redesigned the pages 10+ years ago [8],[9] (yes, that is my IP address before I created an account) it was with the intention of having exterior images only since interior images all look the same and one cannot tell if you're in New York, Kalamazoo or East Bum-F*** China. The exterior images show architectural style and ambient surroundings. It is also why the page List of indoor arenas in the United States only has exterior images in addition to my placing a note in there to post only exterior images. If you want to post interior images, go to each of the individual pages and create a gallery. As for the MLB, NFL and MLS stadiums, they may be interior images but they also show the exterior surroundings with the exception of domes/retractable roofs. Roberto221 (talk) 09:52, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Opposed - I agree with Roberto221. The interiors of hockey arenas are essentially similar. The exteriors are more interesting. PKT(alk) 14:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Include. As I said over on the corresponding NBA list discussion, one cannot get the architecturally distinct element of both the interior and exterior in one pic, so one of each is needed. And, yes, the interiors are distinct enough to need pics. These aren't arenas from the days when interiors were all uniform, even cookie cutter, concrete tiers. oknazevad (talk) 14:53, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Oppose, the building images work well, but add at least one full hockey-rink image near the top for visual explanation and community interest. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:00, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The interior images look virtually the same. GoodDay (talk) 15:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

NHL Conference Finals moved to NHL conference finals

Maybe I missed it. But when was an RM held to move NHL Conference Finals to lowercase NHL conference finals? I'm asking, because I don't remember it happening. GoodDay (talk) 20:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't remember either. User:Dicklyon, can you point us to the discussion? Masterhatch (talk) 20:28, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, KHL Conference Finals unilaterally moved to lowercase KHL conference finals, without benefit of an RM. GoodDay (talk) 20:40, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't have page mover rights, otherwise I'd revert it right now. Masterhatch (talk) 20:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
I've requested those page moves be reverted. This includes Conference Finals, which was (without benefit of an RM) moved to lowercase Conference finals. -- GoodDay (talk) 20:45, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
It's better lowercase. SportingFlyer T·C 21:15, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
No RM was held. Unilateral page moves aren't the best route. GoodDay (talk) 21:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

No RM was held. That's not generally needed unless controversy is expected. After the recent RM at NBA conference finals, it seemed the relevant issues had been sufficiently aired and the consensus to follow MOS:CAPS sufficiently strong, that there would not be a reason for anyone to object here. GoodDay's desire to see an RM is not on objection to lowercase, just a wikilawyering impediment to progress. Does anyone have an actual objection to lowercase here, or a reason to make this controversial? If so, just say so, and let's do an RM. If not, a simple move has taken care of it. Dicklyon (talk) 22:26, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

We had a similar discussion at @Amakuru:'s talkpage, concerning unilateral page moves & why you shouldn't be doing them. Yet (again) you go ahead & do more of them. GoodDay (talk) 22:37, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
You said, "No RM was held. That's not generally needed unless controversy is expected." Wow, you really thought there'd be no controversy? I doubt that. You know full well that this is controversial. Masterhatch (talk) 22:59, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
I thought the issues in controversy were well aired and settled. What issues remain, in terms of reasons that someone would argue for capitalization here? So far nobody has said. Dicklyon (talk) 23:16, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
No, not well aired. This project was never notified about the NBA conference finals discussion at all. How would anyone who doesn't follow basketball know about it? Assuming the result of one RM automatically applies to other pages that were not part of the RM is an error of policy. RMs only apply to the pages that are part of that discussion. Multi-page moves require multi-page RMs. You of all people should know that you should not be making unilateral page moves. If you can't show the patience to post an RM, you really need to reassess whether or not you have the ability to collaborate as needed on Wikipedia. oknazevad (talk) 14:58, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
This is a constructive page move. Lower case is best as per MOS:CAPS. Flibirigit (talk) 23:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Not without going the RM route. GoodDay (talk) 23:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Please stop arguing repetitively. Repeating the same statement in a single thread is disruptive. Flibirigit (talk) 00:08, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Umm, GoodDay's right. It needs to go through a requested move. Whether or not it should be capitalised or not, the fact is, the previous RM said keep capital letters. Masterhatch (talk) 15:32, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
The page was moved a year to do the day of the last requested move by the same user who started the discussion. GoodDay was absolutely right to request the move be reverted. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

New RM is now open at Talk:NHL Conference Finals#Requested move 1 March 2024. Dicklyon (talk) 04:47, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

That closed as moved, so now it's NHL Conference Finals. Y'all might want to do similarly with KHL Conference Finals and the Conference Finals disambig page that I had moved before. Dicklyon (talk) 06:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
I think you meant it's now at "NHL conference finals". PS - By all means, open an RM at its KHL counterpart & an RM at the disambiguation page. GoodDay (talk) 06:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Yes, what a slip. Now at NHL conference finals. I'll leave the KHL and disambig to you. Dicklyon (talk) 08:06, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Female player categories for redistribution

As per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 February 21#Category:Professional Women's Hockey Players Association players, entries in the category need to be dispersed. I have been asked to help, but have little free time until the weekend. If anyone at this project could assist, please comment at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Working/Manual#Other. Thanks. Flibirigit (talk) 22:44, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand why the category is being dispersed. The PWHPA was a league that these players played in, not just an advocacy group. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 00:59, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
The article Professional Women's Hockey Players Association stated in the introduction, "The Professional Women's Hockey Players Association (PWHPA) is a nonprofit organization dedicated to advocating for the promotion of professional women's ice hockey.". Absolutely nowhere in the opening sentence does it state this organization is a league, futhermore it clearly uses the words "nonprofit organization dedicated to advocating". If you feel that anyone misinterpreted the article, I suggest rewriting it, have it peer reviewed, then appeal for the category decision to be revisited. Flibirigit (talk) 01:20, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Take a look at the stats section for any of the players in the categories, such as Ella Shelton. You'll see that the PWHPA held games and functioned as a league.
From the PWHPA article: "The PWHPA launched a "Dream Gap" tour, meant to highlight the disparity in support between men's and women's hockey and to increase support for the latter. As the PWHPA boycott stretched beyond a single season, the Dream Gap tour became an annual "season" of exhibition tournaments." Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 01:25, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I'll add that the PWHPA is treated like a league in a lot of ways, including that its seasons have articles Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 01:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
I think some arguments in the deletion discussion were missed. Although the first season didn't have stable teams, the subsequent ones did, and the last one had a named championship, so even if it was more like a company league than a fully professional one, it does share characteristics of a sports league. Also, I think it is a defining characteristic for a player to be a member of the association, given how it kept players from participating in the NWHL/PHF and thus led to the current PWHL. isaacl (talk) 17:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the closer missed a lot of relevant facts in the discussion that it operated as a league for a couple of seasons, albeit a temporary one. That makes it a relevant category that the players played in that "league". oknazevad (talk) 18:01, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
To clarify, I wasn't referring to the closer. I think no one made the appropriate case for keeping the category, based on the historical relevance of being a member of the PWHPA, and as a secondary factor, the nature of its competitions. isaacl (talk) 18:25, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
It is not obvious, since the article is written poorly. The introduction to the article makes no indication that it operated as a league. Please improve the quality of the article, and comment at the first link in this thread. Flibirigit (talk) 18:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
To clarify - you may comment at the link at the end of the first comment in this thread, i.e. Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Working/Manual#Other. – Fayenatic London 12:10, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
I've reopened the discussion, please comment at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 March 11#Category:Professional Women's Hockey Players Association players. — Qwerfjkltalk 16:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Anaheim Ducks alternate captains

@5.20.151.184: again, you're making changes to the Ducks roster, without discussing it first. This is the second time, you've changed the alternate captains this season. At least bring your reasons for doing so 'here', before making such changes. GoodDay (talk) 16:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

PS - I've contacted the IP about their changes to the Ducks roster in January 2024 & their excuse for not discussing their changes, was that their English wasn't good. GoodDay (talk) 16:07, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

WP:AIV this is no longer in good faith. Conyo14 (talk) 16:43, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Good day. i give arguments here. First three assistans were - Fowler, Henrique, Terry. In October Henrique missed one game with Dallas and there assistant was McTavish Oct.19. ONLY in one game. After game with Nashvill Nov.15 Terry was deprived "A", and it was given to Silfverberg. When Henrique was traded and his "A" goes to Gudas. So McTavish was "A" only Oct.19 and Terry hasn't "A" for 4 months. It's no rotating. Today three assistants in Anaheim are Fowler, Gudas, Silfverberg. I see every Anaheim's game. Thank you 5.20.151.184 (talk) 18:13, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
"I see every Anaheim game", isn't good enough. An editor can't be a reliable source. Furthermore, each time you make these bold changes? You fail to do so at their respective bio pages, the List of current NHL captains and alternate captains, thus creating inconsistencies. I'm wondering if there might be a partial WP:CIR issue here. GoodDay (talk) 18:18, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to accept your changes at the roster template & invoke them at the aforementioned list page & bios, for consistency's sake. Though again, the "I see every Anaheim game" isn't a great source. GoodDay (talk) 18:55, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Task Forces

I have a rather simpler question. What exactly are the requirements for making task forces? Do you just really need to be passionate about a team? Thanks. XR228 (talk) 23:24, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Divisioona, II-divisioona or Rautaliiga

The Finnish 4th tier of ice hockey, which is formally referred to as "II-divisioona" or 2. Divisioona" has an another name, which might be even more common than those previously mentioned. The league is often called "Rautaliiga" (Finnish for "Iron League"). Should we change that name or do we keep it as it is now. For example Liiga is called Liiga here because thats the common name, even though it is supposed to be SM-liiga.

Here's some links where the term Rautaliiga is used: [10], [11], [12], [13], [14] – Poriman55 - Meddela mig! 10:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Article Class for seasons

The 2021–22 Seattle Kraken season is rated as a Stub–class article. However, the 2023–24 Seattle Kraken season is rated as C–class. Should it be this way? There needs to be some consistency for this. I personally believe that they should be C–class. Thank you. XR228 (talk) 01:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I have reclassified both as start-level. Both articles are lacking siginificant prose to explain the lists and charts. Flibirigit (talk) 02:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Just curious, do mean when you say that they need "significant prose?" They are just charts with standings and games, and they are cited. Should there be a few more lines at the top to get the article to a higher class? Thanks. XR228 (talk) 04:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Season articles rarely get past "Stub/Start" simply because the article has the schedule, stats, transactions, placement in the standings, and draft picks. It does not go into detail what happened throughout the season, why trades were made, how the this seasons' team made an impact to the world. It simply collects the details of the season of the team. The Class system is described here: Category:Ice Hockey articles by quality. Conyo14 (talk) 04:49, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

United States women's national ice hockey team

Hi all, I have started a discussion on Talk:United States women's national ice hockey team regarding the Topscorer / Most Points Stats for the US women's team. Could somebody help to clarify? Xgeorg (talk) 07:52, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

List of NHL statistical leaders

Need some eyes at List of NHL statistical leaders, as IP is making updates. Not certain if their attempt updates are accurate or timed correctly. GoodDay (talk) 01:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks like they've stopped. Conyo14 (talk) 02:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Universidae in stats table

I was adding a stats table to Akane Shiga and I wasn't sure whether to include the FISU World University Games in the international stats table. Elite Prospects categorizes it with minor international tournaments, such as the Hlinka Gretzky Cup, which is usually included here, and the World Junior A Challenge, which is sometimes included here. I would have just added it to the table, but as an under-25 tournament it doesn't fit neatly into our scheme of totaling junior and senior competitions separately. It feels weird to add it and not include it in either total, and incorrect to add it to either the junior or senior totals. The other options would be to leave it in the medal table (it was already there for Shiga) but omit it from the stats tables, or to remove it from the medal table. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 19:24, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

EYOF and Olympic Qualifiers

Simple question: should the European Youth Olympic Festival and Olympic qualifying tournaments be included in stats tables? Sometimes they are (e.g. Lenni Hameenaho and Sanni Vanhanen), but in most cases they are not.

In a similar vein, is there anywhere where it is expressly written that youth statistics are trivial? I want to remove them from Vanhanen's article but I anticipate pushback from the creator of the article Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 19:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Ultras draft

I invite everyone who knows anything about ultras groups in ice hockey to contribute to Draft:Ultras (ice hockey) – Poriman55 - Meddela mig! 15:40, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Nebraska Night Owls

Came across this nonsense: Nebraska Knight Owls - trimmed some outright CRYSTAL and falsehoods, it should probably be nuked but maybe someone else wants to take a crack at it. Echoedmyron (talk) 14:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Considering their addition of “Cody Taylor” as GM, this appears to be the same user as SpeakingConsequences, who was banned a few months back for inserting made-up content into articles. I’m gonna PROD the article (there’s nothing in it that justifies a separate article from Potential National Hockey League expansion) and open an SPI. The Kip 14:38, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
SPI has been opened at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SpeakingConsequences. The Kip 15:45, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Ah, good catch - you know I thought "Cody Taylor" sounded familiar but couldn't place it, now I'm remembering the prior hoax additions. Echoedmyron (talk) 17:14, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Turns out our pal here is a notorious sockmaster with 38 confirmed socks, and hockey’s just his latest target. Both accounts have been blocked. The Kip 03:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Oh my, this is definitely someone looking for a regional ban at this point. Conyo14 (talk) 15:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Opened up an LTA case/file at Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/ProTaylorCraft. The Kip 05:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

IP Vandalism at Jack Hughes

IP editors (likely just one person) keep removing the paragraph stating that Jack Hughes is Jewish. Should we keep just reverting it or should we take other action? Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Keep reverting, I'd say. It seems like the same editor, so WP:RPP isn't necessary. I will check for evidence and report to WP:AIV if applicable. Wracking talk! 18:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

An OT situation we didn’t plan for.

Well, the seemingly impossible happened - the Wild pulled their goalie in OT, got scored on, and forfeited the loser point as a result. Believe it’s the first time it’s ever happened.

It officially goes as an OTL for them, but our standings template automatically counts an OTL as one point - what do we do here? The Kip 22:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh that's odd. I guess our incredibly rare circumstance requires a change in the standings procedure to allow for this to occur. Perhaps, we can manually change the points if such a thing were to happen again? Conyo14 (talk) 23:27, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Actually looking back, this exact scenario has happened twice prior, but both were before Wiki hockey made the standings table auto-update: 4/7/2000 EDM vs VAN, and CBJ vs LAK on 3/25/2003 Conyo14 (talk) 23:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Okay so the official NHL standings do not have it in place to consider an overtime loss in this scenario to not include the 1 point either. Some poor web dev is going to have to manually change their script too. Conyo14 (talk) 23:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
I looked this up in an NHL Guide and Record book and confirmed it with the league's record site and in cases like this the two previous times this happened the games were counted as a regular loss. Deadman137 (talk) 00:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Much appreciated, wasn’t actually aware of that. Guess we won’t have to do much after all, haha. The Kip 00:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
The only thing on our end is making sure that Vegas doesn't get credit for a regulation win. Today's result still counts as an overtime win for Vegas for the purpose of tiebreakers. Deadman137 (talk) 01:01, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
The league's main website has the error present on the 1999–2000 Canucks and the 2002–03 Kings records and point totals. On the records site the information is correct for those two situations and the league is now listing today's game as a loss for the Wild. Deadman137 (talk) 02:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Marty Walsh

@SecretName101: recently moved Marty Walsh (ice hockey) to Marty Walsh (ice hockey player), with the rationale that he is ambiguous with Marty Walsh, the leader of the NHLPA. This move goes against Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ice hockey), which says to use year of birth. Any objections to moving it to Marty Walsh (ice hockey, born 1884)? -unsigned comment by User:Flibirigit

@Flibirigit: No objection. SecretName101 (talk) 21:19, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good Conyo14 (talk) 21:22, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
I implemented the change. SecretName101 (talk) 21:23, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Reliability of The Hockey Writers

Figure WP:Ice Hockey might be able to give some solid input at this discussion on WP:RS. The Kip 00:48, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Aside from whether anything factual may be sourced to them if they're deemed an RS, I find the writing to be pretty amateurish and it's pretty much a fan site with silly opinions, and I don't take it seriously at all. My two cents. Echoedmyron (talk) 23:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive edits at Montreal Canadiens-related pages

Just want to inform everybody that an IP editor has been going against various policies/guidelines on Montreal Canadiens-related pages. I have already reported that editor at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive editing by User:47.54.146.218, but so far no action has been taken. – sbaio 13:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

2023-24 NHL season page, not functioning

I've tried for two days, to update the stats at 2023-24 NHL season. The updates show in the boxes separately. But, won't show on the full page. GoodDay (talk) 02:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

This kind of stuff could be raised to the meta wiki. The programmers may have released something that f'd up something else. Conyo14 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

2024-25 NHL season & related pages

We use Czechia for the IIHF tournament articles. Shall we start using Czechia for other ice hockey articles, too? GoodDay (talk) 22:44, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

There was a whole RfC about the use of Czechia vs Czech Republic, which resulted in a No consensus. In the view of the IIHF, there was an RM for specifically the Czech Republic men's national ice hockey team that resulted in the same outcome. My view is still the same that Czechia is WP:COMMONNAME, but I suspect that a lot more may disagree. Conyo14 (talk) 23:44, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I don't think it would result in the change that you desire at this point. This is likely something that will change in the future and if it was just a hockey decision it probably would've already been done. Sometimes change is glacial around here. Deadman137 (talk) 01:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Sebastian Aho (ice hockey, born 1997) § Requested move 12 April 2024

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Sebastian Aho (ice hockey, born 1997) § Requested move 12 April 2024. Wracking talk! 22:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Draft capitalization

I moved a few pages like 1991 NHL dispersal and expansion drafts to lowercase, but then noticed there are a whole bunch of different lines of NHL articles with Draft capitalized. Are any of these consistently capped in sources? Dicklyon (talk) 22:05, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Was an RM held to have those pages moved? GoodDay (talk) 22:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
I reversed your unilateral page move there & the one concerning the CFL & MLS. Please, if you want such sports related pages moved? go the RM route. GoodDay (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
Are you saying that you think those are better capitalized? Or just don't want to see over-capitalization corrected without wasting a whole bunch more editor time? Dicklyon (talk) 23:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
I do believe (at least concerning sports pages) that you were asked to not make unilateral page moves. Open up an RM at NHL Entry Draft, including all kinds of NHL related Drafts. Open up an RM at CFL Draft, including all kinds of CFL related Drafts. Open up an RM at 2014 MLS Expansion Draft, including all kinds of MLS related Drafts. It's not that difficult to do. GoodDay (talk) 23:10, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
"sport related", "NHL related". Something missing? Tony (talk) 03:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Wordsmith:, @Amakuru: What's your view? Should the RM route be taken? GoodDay (talk) 23:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

We already had a noconsensus at the Amateur Drafts pages, so it was clearly not an uncontroversial move. To proceed as if it was does not appear genuine, unless it was forgotten about, which is possible I suppose.18abruce (talk) 23:31, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
I don't recall that one, and can't find it, but maybe there was. Anyway, I wasn't going to jump on the NHL Entry Draft without more discussion. Currently, in hockey it's just 1991 NHL dispersal and expansion drafts that I moved and that GoodDay reverted. I don't see how that could be considered a proper name, nor can its parts "dispersal draft" and "expansion draft" which are mostly lowercase in sources. I think he just likes to see RM discussions for some reason, so I guess we'll do that. Dicklyon (talk) 02:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
I went ahead and started that RM discussion that GoodDay wanted, at Talk:1991 NHL Dispersal and Expansion Drafts#Requested move 17 March 2024, on 14 NHL article titles. Dicklyon (talk) 02:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
@GoodDay: I haven't studied the evidence, but there's been enough controversy over this type of thing lately that I definitely think an RM is permissible and probably advisable. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 13:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

In light of all the consensus to lowercase "draft" pretty much everywhere (though we haven't talked about "Entry Draft" yet), I leave the KHL Draft and other outlier articles up to y'all. Here's the relevant background where all the issues have been hammered out over and over and over:

Similarly with all the conference finals; I leave KHL Conference Finals to y'all. Dicklyon (talk) 21:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
I won't oppose lower-casing to "Conference finals" & "KHL conference finals". GoodDay (talk) 03:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
But you did oppose before, so now will you help fix? Dicklyon (talk) 03:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
If you recommend those pages being moved at required board? I'll second the recommendation. GoodDay (talk) 04:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm recommending it here. Go ahead and make it happen. Or leave it as a monument to obstruction. Dicklyon (talk) 16:12, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
@Dicklyon: Are there any future articles you're looking into? The KHL stuff can be fairly easy to switch. Conyo14 (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
Yes, plenty, among them other groups of capped "Draft" article titles. See User:Dicklyon/Entry Draft for some. I also have a file of "WP to fix" stuff off-wiki, with many thousands of articles worth of things to work on eventually. Many of these are things like over-capped table headings, each in hundreds of articles, that I can't really work on without semi-automated tools. Want to help? Dicklyon (talk) 03:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
@Dicklyon: I don't have time to be passionate about that kind of capitalization. I was just curious. Conyo14 (talk) 04:12, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
Understood. Caps are not something to get passionate about. If you'll help with KHL, that'd be appreciated. Dicklyon (talk) 04:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I've opened up RMs at KHL Conference Finals & Conference Finals. -- GoodDay (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

If you want more input, list those at WT:MOSCAPS#Current. Dicklyon (talk) 23:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

RMs opened for NHL Entry Draft & related pages

RMs opened at NHL Entry Draft, KHL Conference Finals & Conference Finals, btw. GoodDay (talk) 02:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

The Cody Taylor vandal has returned

As seen here. Already taken to SPI. The Kip 15:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

How many accounts need to be blocked for them to get the point? Conyo14 (talk) 00:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
At least 77, apparently. The Kip 21:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
They need a date. No, a hobby. Drmies (talk) 01:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Team goal totals on records.nhl.com

Quick heads up for anybody using records.nhl.com to check season goal totals across different articles, something weird is going on with their tabulating software as I came across multiple errors with many different teams. If you need to check numbers for a specific season, use the standings section on nhl.com as that is working correctly. Deadman137 (talk) 17:21, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Potential Arizona Coyotes relocation

Something to keep an eye on. Lots of chatter among the national hockey writers, and also the Coyotes own beat writers, that the Coyotes will be moving to Utah over this off-season (specifically, that the league plans to announce things on this sometime after the last Coyotes regular season game).

Now, we can look back at the Jets / Thrashers relocation in 2011, and see articles and statements from Bettman and other league execs denying the relocation as late as May 25 (the sale and relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg would become official on May 31).

Also of note, it looks like the NHL might be willing to grant Coyotes owner Meruelo a "five year window" in which he can basically get the right of first refusal to another Arizona NHL franchise. This might be something like the Browns / Ravens situation from the NFL, where the Browns players and front office were moved to Baltimore in 1995, but the Ravens were deemed to be an "expansion" team, with the Browns records and history staying in Cleveland (the Browns were put into a period of "inactivity" for a few years, resuming operations in 1999). Canuck89 (Speak with me) or visit my user page 20:38, April 12, 2024 (UTC)

It could, but given how the league usually does things the franchise history would most likely stay with the relocated team. Either way we'll deal with it. We will need to see when the official relocation date is as that will have implications on the current and upcoming draft and transaction articles. Deadman137 (talk) 02:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
I can't rememember if the Trashers / Jets did any transactions (trades, signings, etc...) in the time between the move was officially announced (end of May 2011) and the end of the league year (end of June 2011). Will have to see how things go for how to assign things to Arizona or to Utah. We do have the picks of the 2011 NHL Draft (held June 24) as belonging to Winnipeg. Canuck89 (Converse with me) or visit my user page 09:31, April 13, 2024 (UTC)
Why not wait until something actually happens? This looks like a lot of unsourced rumors, which is not the goal of Wikipedia. Flibirigit (talk) 11:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
The executive committee has voted to approve the relocation. Assuming the full board of owners will vote on the move sometime in the next week (to get the official announcement out just after the end of the regular season). News article Canuck89 (Converse with me) or visit my user page 19:53, April 15, 2024 (UTC)
Just to answer your previous query Canuckian, the last trade Atlanta made in 2011 was at the trade deadline. They did not sign any free agents after the trade deadline or during the relocation phase and no trades were commenced by the Jets until the second day of the 2011 draft, which for our purposes was already the next league year.
Once this becomes official the future draft pick trades that Arizona has been involved in will have to be reworded but that won't take long to fix though there are trades that go into 2027.
Are there any objections to calling the relocated team the Salt Lake City NHL team until the new name becomes official? Deadman137 (talk) 20:33, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I wouldn’t be opposed, though Utah NHL team might be a more concise alternative. The Kip 21:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I've had the same thought about Utah as well. I figured that a quick straw poll (don't care which way it goes) for a temporary article would be the best idea until the permanent name is announced. Deadman137 (talk) 21:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
I believe that team is required to use "Utah" instead of SLC, as per a state law about accessing public funding. Also, @Deadman137:, it appears somewhat likely that the NHL is going to grant Coyotes owner Muruelo what is effectively a 5 year period for a "right of first refusal" regarding another Arizona NHL team, and the Coyotes name, logo, records, etc... will be left behind in Arizona. So, we might have a Browns / Ravens situation, where the NHL considers Utah to be an "expansion" team with no prior history, and the Coyotes get "deactivated" for 5 years to give Meruelo time to get his situation in Arizona all sorted out (like how the Browns were also rendered "inactive" for a few years in the late 1990s). Canuck89 (Speak with me) or visit my user page 21:37, April 15, 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for mentioning that note about Utah state funding that makes me lean towards using Utah instead.
Based on what I read here [15] a new Arizona team would be an expansion team. It is possible that a Browns/Ravens situation could still happen but unless the Coyotes franchise is listed as defunct/dormant after the season on the records.nhl site it would be prudent to treat this a normal relocation until more information becomes available. A Browns/Ravens situation would affect a couple of articles but all of them are quick fixes. Deadman137 (talk) 21:58, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Wouldn't be the first time it's happened in recent memory either - we could consult WikiProject Basketball and WikiProject NBA on how they handled the Hornets/Bobcats/Pelicans scenario in 2014. The Kip 22:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
The NHL tends to not do that, however. It's something that grid-iron football does. GoodDay (talk) 22:34, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
It seems the NHL's pursued this route due to the threat of legal action from Meruelo - a forced sale would be a long and costly fight. The Kip 23:15, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Unrelated but a note I'd like to voice - for the "History" section of our incoming Utah article, I recently wrote a brief but usable section on Salt Lake City's hockey history and Smith's efforts to gain a team at Potential National Hockey League expansion. The Kip 23:13, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Decent start, outside of maybe adding a mention of 2002 Winter games that's about as far as we'll get for it. Deadman137 (talk) 23:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks to some digging done by The Kip and according to this article [16] the Coyotes are suspending operations and the players and personnel are going to Salt Lake City as an expansion team. So this is a Browns/Ravens situation and the league will have 33 teams with 32 operational. Deadman137 (talk) 23:33, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

So, once we get the official announcement from the league, we'll know how to actually proceed. Create a new article for the Utah team, probably with a temporary name something like Utah NHL Team, until the branding is officially announced for that (which shouldn't take too long, I imagine they'll want to have everything set up by late June for the draft and free agency). For the intro for Utah's NHL team, we can probably copy the format from the Baltimore Ravens page (where the Ravens unusual founding is explained, and how they were technically an expansion team composed of the players and front office of the Browns). What do with the Arizona Coyotes page, though? They won't be defunct, but they won't be operational, either. Will have to figure out how to word things nicely that they have "temporarily suspended" operations. Canuck89 (Gab with me) or visit my user page 23:57, April 15, 2024 (UTC)
This is a first draft of what the Arizona article could lead with:
The Arizona Coyotes are a professional ice hockey team based in the Phoenix metropolitan area that has suspended operations pending their acquisition of a new arena to play in. If the Coyotes secure a new arena by no later than 2029 they will rejoin the NHL as an expansion team with all previous team history, records and uniforms being maintained. If they do not secure a new arena the team will cease operations. Before suspending operations the Coyotes competed in the...
Then we could leave the rest of the opening section more or less intact. If anyone wants to improve what I wrote feel free to, all I ask is just post the revised version to my talk page and we can try to figure out what works best before bringing it back here. Deadman137 (talk) 03:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
We don't actually KNOW yet whether this is a Browns/Ravens situation or not. There is no point at all in speculating ahead of the evidence. This is not a race, and no one's giving out barnstars for being the first editor to "scoop" every other one. It does us no harm to wait. Ravenswing 04:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Not officially, no, but when reputable publications like ESPN and TSN are reporting it as such, there’s no harm in preparing for how to deal with it. I’d rather this than deal with an avalanche of new and IP editors sure to descend upon here with the official announcement. The Kip 04:30, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
It might be best to semi-protect that article when Salt Lake is announced as the destination. Conyo14 (talk) 04:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Sadly, we have to wait until the initial wave of disruption happens before the article can be protected. Deadman137 (talk) 06:02, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
So, if this does end up being a Browns like situation, does it mean the Arizona Coyotes will also keep the history of the 1972-1996 Winnepeg Jets or will they finally give it to the new jets? 129.89.181.123 (talk) 17:43, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Nobody knows yet, but there's another possibility you haven't considered: The original Jets' records sit in limbo with the "suspended" franchise and then continue to belong to that franchise if/when it is reactivated. 1995hoo (talk) 18:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
If we look at what the league has done in the past, if the Coyotes do not come back then all of the original Jets' franchise history would die with the Coyotes. This is similar to what happened with the Hamilton Tigers (previously the Quebec Bulldogs) as the franchise was dropped by the league (not suspending operations like the Coyotes) and the players went to the New York Americans and the two teams are not considered to be linked.
As it was stated above nothing is official yet, though the current Jets are a different franchise so it is very unlikely that the league would move the previous Jets history to the new one because if they were going to do it they would've already done it. Deadman137 (talk) 19:08, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Maybe if the Arizona Coyotes do get a Browns-like deal where the brand, record and history in Arizona stays in Arizona with Meruelo, while the players, and coaches get to move to Salt Lake with Smith, then maybe the current Jets can get involved and try to reclaim the history and records of the 1972-1996 jets in exchange for giving up its history of the Atlanta Thrashers from 1999-2011 to the NHL for use in a potential future NHL team. A three (or four if you count the NHL themselves) way deal would be complecated, but duable. 129.89.181.220 (talk) 14:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
Let's just be patient and wait out what the League decides. Conyo14 (talk) 15:05, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
There's not a whole lot we need to prepare for; we've been through the drill before. If the team doesn't relocate, we don't need to do anything. If the team does relocate, we populate the new Salt Lake City NHL team page (it's already been created as a placeholder) pending a renaming, transfer the appropriate information, create the new infobox, etc etc. If the team relocates and it's a Browns' situation where the team history stays with Meruelo, then we know what to do there too. It's all pretty straightforward. Ravenswing 23:26, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth (which is not much for the moment), Darren Dreger just tweeted that there will be a Board of Governors call on Thursday (he didn't say what time), though at this time it's unknown whether there'll be a vote on the Coyotes or just an update or something else altogether. 1995hoo (talk) 19:40, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

The meeting is at 3:00 p.m. ET. So we'll know more tomorrow. Deadman137 (talk) 03:10, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Queue up the Jeopardy theme song .... 1995hoo (talk) 15:12, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Board of Governors meeting is at noon PDT. Looks like most of the articles from the last week are saying the NHL wanted to have the move all official for around April 18th / 19th. Will see whenever the NHL decides to make an official announcement to the public. Canuck89 (Speak with me) or visit my user page 03:09, April 18, 2024 (UTC)
@Deadman137: Friedman and other hockey journalists are reporting the Board meeting just ended, with a vote to formally approve the sale. Official announcement from the league could be coming within the next day or so. Canuck89 (Gab with me) or visit my user page 19:55, April 18, 2024 (UTC)
And the NHL just put out their press release confirming the move, and the fact that it is a Browns / Ravens situation (where the Coyotes will temporarily suspend operations, Meruelo will retain the Coyotes name and branding in Arizona, with a chance to "reactivate" the Coyotes in the next 5 years). Canuck89 (Speak with me) or visit my user page 20:02, April 18, 2024 (UTC)
The NHL could renege on their promise though as they have done in the past with the New York Americans. Conyo14 (talk) 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
The reports are also that Meruelo won't require further BoG approval, though - if he gets an arena built, expansion is automatically triggered. The Kip 20:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Seemingly so, but this is something we won't have to worry about for years. Ravenswing 08:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

I've opted to draftify Draft:Salt Lake City NHL team, so that we can construct a finished product before rolling it out to the mainspace instead of having a chaotic work-in-progress in mainspace. The Kip 20:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. Deadman137 (talk) 20:25, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Switched it over to Draft:Utah NHL team - this confirms it'll be "Utah" instead of SLC. The Kip 20:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

I note that in the main NHL article's list of teams, the Utah team's "join date" has an asterisk after it, which the note below the table says denotes a franchise move. From a realistic standpoint, obviously that's what it is. But from a "legal" standpoint, as discussed above, it's not a relocation in view of the Browns/Ravens situation. I also note that there have been a good number of edits (mostly, I suspect, from one person, given the extreme similarity in edit summaries) to the "Utah NHL team" article that have removed the reference to it being an expansion team. Those edits keep getting reverted, and rightly so. I'm going to remove the asterisk from the table in the main NHL article because I think it could be seen as taking away credibility to call it an expansion team in one place (the team article) and a relocation in another (the main NHL article). I wanted to flag it here because I'm sure it's going to be an ongoing problem. (On a semi-related note, yesterday NHL.com had a press release saying the team will be called the "Utah Something." I'm waiting for someone to edit the Wikipedia article to use that name, claiming a reliable source says that's what it will be.) 1995hoo (talk) 12:25, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

KHL Drafts and rights in player articles

I have added info about Joel Armia's KHL draft in 2011 and the sale of his KHL rights from Severstal to CSKA Moscow in 2018. Armia never played in the KHL (and most likely never will), so i'm just wondering if this info is important enough to include in the article. Feel free to revert my edits on Armia's article if you dont think it should be there. Thanks. – Poriman55 - Meddela mig! 18:56, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

National team in infobox

If a player has played internationally at the senior level, but not in a tournament, should the national team go in the infobox? Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 18:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

I was under the impression their national team is added if they've ever played internationally, be it junior/senior or tournament/friendly. The Kip 21:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Individual career vs individual season for "Xth person to [reach single-season milestone]"

Asking this as a point of clarification for season pages. At 2023-24 NHL season, we have:

  • Auston Matthews listed as the 43rd player to score 60 goals in a season - Matthews himself had done it before, as has much of the 60-goal list, but his 23-24 season is the 43rd time that it's been reached.
  • Connor McDavid listed as the fourth player to record 100 assists in a season - it's been accomplished 14 times, but McDavid is the 4th individual to reach the mark.

Naturally, these two seem logically inconsistent; if we want to standardize, either Matthews is the 22nd individual to accomplish 60 goals and we denote that it's the second time he's done so, or McDavid is the 14th player to accomplish a 100-assist season. Personally, I'm split; the McDavid precedent makes more sense but is harder to spell out, as simply stating "X player did Y, becoming the Zth player to do so" seems like better and more concise wording than something akin to "X player did Y for the second time in his career, the Xth time this has been done in a season."

We've been inconsistent on it in the past; for instance, last season's article had Matthews and Pastrnak listed as being the 41st and 42nd to 60 goals (when individually speaking they were the 22nd and 23rd), but McDavid as the 6th to 150 points (when it was the 17th time 150 had been reached).

So, in short:

  • Should we denote single-season milestones by the individual (ex. McDavid is the 4th individual to reach 100 assists, although it's been reached 14 times overall) or by the season (ex. Matthews is having the 43rd season of 60 goals, although it's been previously reached by 23 individuals including Matthews himself)?
  • If the former, what should the wording be?

For now, I'm changing McDavid's wording to the Matthews interpretation, but I'm open to changing it if better wording can be developed for the alternative. The Kip 05:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think we need to be consistent in the sentence structure, but we should mention both the individual and season records, at least in a footnote. (I think this will also future-proof articles from well-intentioned editors mistakenly changing the meaning.)
I think we should avoid "although" which is a MOS:EDITORIAL word to watch. I think the "43rd season of 60 goals" wording is confusing and clunky.
Here's some alternatives I think could work:
Mention both in the main text: (I'm being lazy about finding synonyms for "feat" right now)
  • alt1: Matthews had a 60-goal season, with the feat having been accomplished 42 times previously by 23 individuals, including Matthews himself.
  • alt2: McDavid's 100-assist season was the 14th in the NHL, with three players having accomplished the feat previously.
Individual:
  • alt3: McDavid was the 4th individual to reach 100 assists.[a]
  • alt4: With exactly 100 assists, McDavid became the 4th individual to accomplish a 100-assist season, a record reached thirteen times previously.[a]
Season:
  • alt5: With 69 goals, Matthews accomplished the 43rd 60-goal season in the NHL.[b]

References

  1. ^ a b As of the 20XX–XX season, 4 players had collectively accomplished 14 100-assist seasons in the NHL.
  2. ^ As of the 20XX–XX season, 23 players had collectively accomplished 43 60-goal seasons in the NHL.
Wracking talk! 20:54, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm personally partial to alt4 or alt5. We could also have something along the lines of:
* On April XX, 2024, Edmonton Oilers forward Connor McDavid recorded his 100th assist of the season, recording the 14th 100-assist season in NHL history, and becoming the 4th individual to reach the mark.
* On April XX, 2024, Edmonton Oilers forward Connor McDavid recorded his 100th assist of the season, becoming the 4th individual to reach the mark, and recording the 14th 100-assist season in NHL history. I might experimentally roll that out on a few season articles. The Kip 21:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Those look good too. I think saying "record" twice in the same sentence is a bit repetitive, but I'm being lazy with synonyms today, so glass houses. Wracking talk! 21:47, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
Yeah, my bad haha. I’ll figure out a different word to include, but I like the second format a little more; I’ll tentatively start rolling it out in the next few days. The Kip 04:56, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
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