Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greater Manchester/Archive 37

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Flixton, Greater Manchester

I was thinking of nominating this at GAC but having not done a settlement article for some time, I wondered if there was anything I'd missed?

Obviously the images are rubbish but I'll fix that this week. Parrot of Doom 19:16, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

It's not a part of GM I'm very familiar with, but I've put my "places of worship" hat on and dug out my street atlas. I can see a few other churches in the area: St John's Anglican church next to St Monica's on Irlam Road/Woodsend Road South (possibly a chapel of ease to, or another church in the parish of, St Michael's?); and Flixton Methodist Church on Irlam Road opposite Millford Avenue. Rather on the edge of the area, but possibly within the article's remit (based on proximity to Chassen Road station...!), is the Davyhulme Methodist Church (not really in Davyhulme, it would appear, despite the name). That's on Brook Road near the Bowfell Road junction. Might be worth looking into. Cheers, Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 19:44, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I think Flixton Methodist Church has gone. There aren't many places of worship around here. Parrot of Doom 20:56, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Mm, plausible: it looked a bit worse for wear on Google Street View, which I think dates from 2009. I'll do some Googling... Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 20:58, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Halfway down p89 of this useful-looking document reveals all! Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:04, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Its a useful source of info but I would point out that its author (a regular poster on the Urmston.net forum) lives in Canada, so relies on information from other forum members. Parrot of Doom 21:43, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
When I've done a settlement article usually someone (MF perhaps) has insisted on something about the economy :-( for which Trafford's ward profile might be useful.J3Mrs (talk) 22:18, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
I always considered Flixton to be somewhat like Urmston, Partington or Davyhulme - a Manchester dormitory with rather little in the way of local economy (I'm not aiming to diss these places - my father and my brother have both lived in Wythenshawe, a Manchester dorm if ever there was one). --Redrose64 (talk) 22:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
There's little to nothing to write about in Flixton, just a few isolated pubs and shops here and there. No industry of note, all of that's in Urmston (Higher Road for instance) Davyhulme (hospital) and Carrington (Carrington Moss). Parrot of Doom 00:43, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Free Highbeam accounts on offer

Just in case everyone isn't aware of this. Malleus Fatuorum 02:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Altrincham

...will be TFA on 23 March. Promoted in Jan 2008 so I'd venture a guess that it will be a bit out of date by now, and will need a bit of tidying up, checking for deadlinks, etc? Parrot of Doom 23:13, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

It almost certainly needs updating. Recently an IP went round Trafford articles highlighting that the details of local council elections were out of date, and in some cases the MP was out of date too. Nev1 (talk) 23:18, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
Good Lord, it's got one of my old spoken articles from way back in the day! (2008...) Incredibly, there have been few substantive changes to the article text in the four years since then, so the spoken version will still be a reasonable reflection of the article. That's a bonus! Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 23:46, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
I've replaced a fair few deadlinks and redirects but there's still plenty left. I reckon if half a dozen of us read through it we'll sort out most of the potential issues. Parrot of Doom 23:50, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
The links for specialist schools don't work (they've been a problem before) and the ONS links may need checking as I think they reorganised their site recently. I'll have a proper look tomorrow once I've had the chance to find the books I used. At least the 23rd is more than a week away. Nev1 (talk) 23:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
  • Only a few hours to go but there's still a fair amount needs doing. If anyone is planning to edit tonight, could they pass by and correct what they see? There are a few citation requests that need doing. Parrot of Doom 18:46, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Historic maps

I found this today, and it's rather good. Parrot of Doom 18:29, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Great Manchester Cycle

I just started this as a stub and will expand it later, but it might be worth adding a line or two about this to the respective city/area articles, since I believe it's the largest closed-road cycling event ever held in the UK. And yes, I took part (the 52-mile route). Set a few personal bests too :) Parrot of Doom 16:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Well done :) Is it a one off or will you be doing five laps next year? J3Mrs (talk) 18:35, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
If they add more laps I'll do 'em :) I did a 100-mile ride last year although I think 8 laps of Manchester would be a bit boring... Parrot of Doom 21:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Boddingtons

This is up at FAC; I'd be interested in whether you guys think I'm being too hard on the nominator, and we could use some help polishing up the prose. (The article may have other problems, I don't know yet.) - Dank (push to talk) 03:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I did a bit of polishing. Good job I like the odd glass.J3Mrs (talk) 10:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested moves for Metrolink

Oldham Mumps railway station, Failsworth railway station and Hollinwood railway station are up for RM. Please see Talk:Oldham Mumps railway station. Simply south...... always punctual, no matter how late for just 6 years 20:12, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Transatlantic flight of Alcock and Brown

I just read a piece in the MEN about blue plaques commemorating Alcock and Brown in Fallowfield and Chorlton. I've found the above article, and given it a GM banner but it could do with some serious improvement if anyone's interested. Richerman (talk) 17:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

I know a direct descendant of Alcock (great-nephew, I think) who had quite a lot of information. I'll ask but I guess that all his stuff would be primary. - Sitush (talk) 17:47, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Just noticed this, if you look at 1910 London to Manchester air race you'll find links to Flight, which has a totally free online archive. I'm sure there'll be something in there about this. I'm a bit busy right now (hard drive corrupted, loads of things to fix) but I'll have a look at the article later. Parrot of Doom 08:45, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

The original UK Spaghetti Junction

From my childhood I remember the Worsley Braided Interchange between the M61 and M62 (now M60) was being called "Spaghetti Junction" soon after it opened in 1970, 2 years before its more famous namesake opened in Birmingham. This makes me doubt the claim that the name "Spaghetti Junction" (as used anywhere in the world) was invented by a Birmingham journalist. I wonder if anyone is aware of any reliable sources to prove the Manchester usage (or indeed any other usage) pre-dated the Birmingham usage? (I can find a number of unreliable sources on discussion boards and blogs, although even those don't specify dates.) -- Dr Greg  talk  23:41, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

I remember that too. I got this through Manchester Libraries access, you'll need to join:
Source Citation: John Chartres, Our Chester Correspondent, and Our Oxford Correspondent. "'Spaghetti Junction' opens without warning signs." Times [London, England] 18 Dec. 1970: 4. The Times Digital Archive. Web. 22 June 2012.
Document URL http://find.galegroup.com/dvnw/infomark.do?&source=gale&prodId=DVNW&userGroupName=mclib&tabID=T003&docPage=article&docId=CS68645778&type=multipage&contentSet=LTO&version=1.0

J3Mrs (talk) 08:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I can't find a mention in the Times or Newsvault before 1972 for Gravelly Hill but local papers may not be there. J3Mrs (talk) 08:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
The Brummies' equivalent to the dear old Manchester Evening News is the Birmingham Evening Mail. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:24, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Nice one Mrs J3! it seems from that it had the first overhead hazard warning lights on a motorway too. We're pretty good on firsts around here. That will probably upset a few Brummies though - there was a spat with them some years ago about us calling Manchester Britain's "second city". Richerman (talk) 08:38, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the ref, J3Mrs. I've now discovered the Birmingham Evening Mail used the term way back in 1965 (see Birmingham Mail's role in creating Spaghetti Junction legend), so maybe they were the first to use the term after all. I've updated Spaghetti Junction and Gravelly Hill Interchange with the new information. -- Dr Greg  talk  21:13, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome :-) He didn't use the actual phrase though did he? Would be interesting to see the actual report. J3Mrs

The OED's first ref to the phrase, though there are other earlier comparisons to spaghetti generally was in "1971 Evening News (Worcester) 15 Nov. 7/4 Worcester will have its own ‘spaghetti junction’ if the big multi-level interchange is ever constructed in the Arboretum." which is later than the article in the Times.(talk) 08:30, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

The most popular article last month was ...

... Alan Turing, with almost 2.9 million hits. Amazing really. Malleus Fatuorum 20:36, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to think that my efforts to get the article featured in 'On This Day' played some small part in it. Interesting that they wouldn't include it in 'In The News' because it wasn't considered newsworthy enough though. Richerman (talk) 12:56, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Cornerhouse

I live a very long way from Manchester, which I haven't visited in decades. So to me, Cornerhouse is only the name of a (presumably defunct) publisher. I was happy to find that Cornerhouse had an article, but this didn't mention its publications, and virtually all of what it did say was unsourced (and vaguely promotional).

I can't immediately find a source for Cornerhouse as publisher, but I have changed the article to claim that it was a publisher on the strength of examples. (Copac gave awkwardly many, so I used CiNii. Note that the examples are by bluelinked photographers and others.)

I've done very little else to the article, which needs a lot of attention. Perhaps somebody in Manchester would care to have a bash at it.

As for the publications, I've heard (yes, my "OR", but from a disinterested source) that one way or another Cornerhouse publications (under Dewi Lewis) effectively became Dewi Lewis Publishing (under ditto). What this says is compatible, but it's not a disinterested source. -- Hoary (talk) 12:02, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

The Cornerhouse certainly deserves better than it has right now, I'll see what the availability of decent source material is like. Parrot of Doom 12:31, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Aaargh. Yesterday, why didn't I notice the tell-tale use of the first person?

See this series of edits by SPA Mossley8 (contributions): it just copies in stuff from the Cornerhouse's own "What we do" page. And no, this page doesn't mention Creative Commons or similar. OTOH it also doesn't mention the reservation of all rights, or indeed anything about copyright. And Mossley8 obligingly (and fairly credibly) describes himself as Dave Moutrey Director and Chief Executive, Cornerhouse. Presumably Moutrey can recycle Cornerhouse PR fluff wherever he wishes (at least as far as Cornerhouse is concerned).

Of course, Wikipedia is not the place for PR fluff. And user pages aren't the place for articles about SPAs (even if the SPA looks article-worthy).

I think it would be a good idea if somebody (some one person) wrote an informative but polite and even (kind of) welcoming message to Dave Moutrey (whose address can be inferred from here). A Mancunian would be better than a Tokyonian, but I'm willing to do it if nobody else volunteers. In the meantime, I'll cut from the article a substantial minority of what I could and perhaps should cut. I'll leave in most in order that it can prompt disinterested writers to duckduckgo independent and citable sources for it. -- Hoary (talk) 01:13, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

St Werburgh's Road Metrolink station as "Chorlton High".

Just noticed a large map of the "future metrolink" at Mosley Street station which lists St Werburgh's Rd as Chorlton High.

I'm guessing that this was an original name for the station as the map lists this line as "Confirmed under construction" with the Airport and Didsbury extensions as "Proposed pending funding". If so, perhaps this should be added to the article? -- Fursday 15:50, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

See Talk:Chorlton High Metrolink station#Merge proposal and (IIRC) past archives of this page. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:09, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Heywood

Anyone care to take a look at Heywood, Greater Manchester. It seems to me that it's not far off being a suitable nomination for good article status, though there's a bit of tweeking required. Certainly, most of the main issues appear to be covered. Skinsmoke (talk) 16:20, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

What is a place in Greater Manchester?

Please see Talk:List of places in Greater Manchester#Inclusion criteria. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:43, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Blue plaques for Rutherford in Manchester

Would anyone here be able to help find out when the two blue plaques for Ernest Rutherford in Manchester were erected? One is here, and another one (used in the article) is here. The latter is in Coupland Street, and the former appears to be on Bridgeford Street. But I've been unable to find out when they were installed. I think the Coupland Street one is the earlier one, with the Bridgeford Street one erected later. Some sites get the two mixed up, so some care is needed to sort out which is which. Ideally, for each one, it would be good to have the date of erection, the organisation that erected it, and the location, but it can be difficult to find out some of these details. Hope someone here can help. There were some other plaques erected elsewhere as well, but I want to get the Manchester ones detailed first. Carcharoth (talk) 13:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

The link you supplied for the second blue plaque says that it was erected in 1986. All blue plaques in Manchester are erected by Manchester City Council, but curiously their site lists only one for Rutherford,[1], and according to the Manchester Evening News there's another blue plaque on Rutherford's house in Wilmslow Road. So I'm not sure what's going on really. Malleus Fatuorum 14:28, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I missed that 1986 date. I tried to confirm it elsewhere, but no luck yet. Quite a number of organisations erect plaques and the colour, size and style can vary a lot, so I'm not surprised that there are more out there. The bit about the locations being confused really annoys me, though. That one on openplaques is right below what looks like a sign for Coupland Street, but says it is on Oxford Road! For a very different style of plaque, see here. Something known as the Chemical Landmarks series, presented in 2011 to mark some centenery. Goodness only know where that one ended up. Carcharoth (talk) 23:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Both the blue plaques you linked to have Manchester City Council's crest on them, so I'm still not sure why the council's web site only lists one of them Malleus Fatuorum 01:50, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
There is something on the history of the scheme here. That talks about a change from ceramic to aluminium (and now to 'anodized bronze'), and also that "The responsibility for researching the facts, ensuring sitings are accurate, manufacturing and funding plaques now rests with those making the request." At the top of that page, there is a link to this page (Manchester City Galleries). Rutherford is mentioned here, but not in sufficient detail. Looks like I may have to write to someone about this if I want a definitive answer. Carcharoth (talk) 08:06, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
The Coupland Street/Oxford Road plaque is right on the corner where the two meet. That section of Coupland Street is a small private access road through university property. A picture will explain it better than words; if you look up the Manchester Museum on Google Maps and go into streetview, you can see the plaque. Oldelpaso (talk) 08:58, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Recent renaming request

The following articles related to this project are currently nominated for renaming in the CAT:CSD:

Is the request justified? Thanks for any hints. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 13:44, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Recent moves of articles on places in Greater Manchester

I have just spent the best part of an hour undoing the recent moves by User:Green Giant, who has been systematically going through articles on places in Rochdale, Manchester, Salford, Wigan, Bolton and Trafford, moving them to disambiguate by metropolitan borough, rather than by ceremonial county. Many of these were against the naming conventions (which do allow for disambiguation by settlement, but not by metropolitan borough), and were certainly moved without consensus. My understanding is that the preference of this project is still to disambiguate by ceremonial county (unless, of course, there are two places with the same name in Greater Manchester).

The user had previously been asked to stop moving Greater Manchester articles by a couple of editors, but had ignored those requests. It appears they haven't yet got round to Bury, Oldham, Tameside or Stockport, but it is probably only a matter of time. Can project members please keep a watch out for any further moves. Skinsmoke (talk) 04:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I disagree with what you've done at Bedford, Pennington and Westleigh. Moving Middleton to Middleton, Greater Manchester is fine, it is a primary settlement, but Bedford, Pennington and Westleigh are just subdivisions of Leigh, Greater Manchester. J3Mrs (talk) 09:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Besses o' th' Barn

The category Category:Besses o' th' Barn has been created recently. I am not good on geographical stuff, nor am I good with categories. Bearing that in mind, should this exist at all and, if so, should it be a subcategory of Category:Bury? I vaguely recall a discussion that caused various category and/or mergers for "People from Whitefield", "People from Radcliffe", "People from Prestwich" etc in a List of people from Bury. - Sitush (talk) 00:25, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings and structures in Manchester

I have started a discussion at Talk:List of tallest buildings and structures in Manchester about whether the article needs a bit of a clean up. Please feel free to comment there. Pit-yacker (talk) 19:08, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

New article on novel Donkey Punch

I've created this new article. If you've got additional input for secondary sources, please feel free to suggest them at the article's talk page, I'd really appreciate it. :) Cheers, — Cirt (talk) 18:19, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Lancastrian dialect and accent

As this project seems more active than your sister-project to the north, could I draw your attention also to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lancashire and Cumbria#Lancastrian dialect and accent? Mogism (talk) 19:24, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the offending section to the article's talk page, pending a thorough cleanup and some (any?) citations being given. Skinsmoke (talk) 00:40, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Category:Regeneration in Manchester

Category:Regeneration in Manchester, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for delete. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:13, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

List of tallest buildings and structures in Salford at WP:FLRC

I have nominated List of tallest buildings and structures in Salford for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

  • I've done what I can with this, but I've stumbled at trying to find reliable sources for the high rises completed in MediaCityUK since 2010, particularly White, Blue and Orange. Can anyone help? Malleus Fatuorum 05:02, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Historic Lancashire and categorisation

I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lancashire and Cumbria#Historic Lancashire and categorisation about how to categorise articles relating to pre-1974 events within the Greater Manchester and Merseyside areas. Please contribute there. -- Dr Greg  talk  19:15, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Categorising collieries as being in Greater Manchester is extremely misleading. They were in Lancashire and on the Lancashire Coalfield. That is how the references I have describe them. J3Mrs (talk) 20:32, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Collieries on the Lancashire Coalfield would be more appropriate.J3Mrs (talk) 20:47, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I completely agree. To the best of my knowledge there has been only one colliery in Greater Manchester - Agecroft Colliery. No need for a category for just one article. Parrot of Doom 21:06, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
You're right, my dad worked there just before he retired. :-) I don't understand most of this category malarky and I'm certainly not one of those who deny Greater Manchester exists but I think the Category:Coal mines in Greater Manchester is just plain wrong. J3Mrs (talk) 21:30, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I started it :-) to clarify what all the to do was about. You have a problem? J3Mrs (talk) 19:17, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes. We now have two discussions going, and need to flip back and forth between them, to work out whether two near-simultaneous posts are referring to exactly the same issue, almost the same, or whether one's going off at a tangent. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
Well if you hadn't complained it had ended:-)J3Mrs (talk) 20:23, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
I might be thinking out loud here as an outsider but surely Category:Coal mines in Greater Manchester could work - the "mines" are still there, but the working "colleries" are not? --Jza84 |  Talk  19:34, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
You're right. In local parlance a mine is a pit, not a colliery. Malleus Fatuorum 05:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Coal mines in Greater Manchester is misleading, Category:Former collieries in Greater Manchester is preferable. The coal seams were called mines, eg Crombouke mine, but colliery and coal mine are the same thing. There are a lot of old pits (coal mines) of which there is absolutely no trace. A pit could also be the shaft. Complicated but true. J3Mrs (talk) 09:03, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Manchester Daily Express - UK

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Manchester Express#Manchester Daily Express - UK. -- Trevj (talk) 16:10, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Symbols of Manchester

Just a nudge that I've done some cutting back of material at Symbols of Manchester and Four Heatons and commented on the talk pages accordingly (though its the former in particular that I think really warrents viewpoints). I'd welcome feedback on talk pages as these articles appear cherished, but muddled, and I'd be keen to see us get it right. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  19:38, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Well hello there stranger. Parrot of Doom 00:36, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello! Just visiting and doing some editting while I have an opportunity! :) --Jza84 |  Talk  11:15, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Stalybridge railway station

Hi, there are anon users who keep altering the number of platforms at Stalybridge from 3 to 5, but no sources have been given. My books (the most recent of which is from 2005) show three. Perhaps there are some older ones from which the track has been removed. It's also possible that new ones have been built, although I wouldn't have thought that the traffic level justified as many as five, since Bolton (a far busier station) manages with four, and Salford Crescent just two. The article does mention "the opening of two new platforms", but the only source for that merely states "alterations to the platforms". To me, this could mean that some or all of the pre-existing platforms have been demolished, and two new ones constructed to replace them.

The question is: how many platforms are actually in use at Stalybridge? I'm not in a position to pop over in order to check - if somebody else could, that'd be great. Thanks. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:47, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Extensive work was going on at Stalybridge to increase the number of platforms, it was closed for a week last month but I don't know if it's finished completely or in use yet. [2] I think the IPs are correct. J3Mrs (talk) 09:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Tony Lloyd

Hi all, I've done some work on the Tony Lloyd article, bringing it (hopefully) upto a good standard. If anybody has any additions or amendments to bring, I'd welcome them very much. --Jza84 |  Talk  20:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Rewrite of Template:Infobox Manchester Metrolink station, plus new features

Please comment at Template talk:Infobox Manchester Metrolink station#Rewrite, plus new features. Thanks. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:57, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Old maps of Manchester

They just mentioned on the local news about the WW2 bomb damage maps of Manchester that have just gone on line. There is a news story about them on the John Rylands website here. There are others such as plans of the Ship Canal but it doesn't say how to get to them. Anyone know where they are? Richerman (talk) 22:46, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

There's a link from the MEN story here but there is a problem loading the page. Perhaps it's crashed due to too much traffic after it was on the news Richerman (talk) 22:56, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Shaw and Crompton Metrolink station

I read last night that Metrolink opens up to Shaw and Crompton Metrolink station on Sunday. However that and the Derker railway station articles needs moving from their old "railway station" titles to new Metrolink ones. Can anybody tidy this up? --Jza84 |  Talk  19:49, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greater Manchester/Archive 35#Chorlton-cum-Hardy railway station and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (UK stations), we should maintain the status quo for the moment, and move the pages when the stations actually open. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:37, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
OK. Although it seems pretty odd as these are never going to be railway stations again, and I imagine most readers will be hunting (expecting) Metrolink articles - especially now and this weekend. But consensus is consenus I guess. I'll make a start on the articles all the same if OK, and await the page move Saturday night/Sunday morning. Thanking you. --Jza84 |  Talk  22:10, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 Done Pages moved - it was an admin job, because the targets Derker Metrolink station and Shaw and Crompton Metrolink station each had about a dozen edits, made between 12 October 2008 and 3 November 2009 (those interested may view those at Special:Undelete/Derker Metrolink station and Special:Undelete/Shaw and Crompton Metrolink station). There was almost nothing worth preserving from those. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Cheshire portal

I have nominated the Cheshire portal for featured portal status. Please join the discussion here. Espresso Addict (talk) 21:28, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Training event for UK Wikimedians

Wikimedia UK is committed to supporting our volunteers and to encourage them to teach others how to edit Wikipedia, we are running a weekend training workshop that will take place on the weekend of 23–24 February in Manchester. If you're interested please take a look at the event page for further details. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:53, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Metrolink rewrite

Hi all, I'm currently working on a complete rewrite of the Manchester Metrolink article in a sandbox (here if anyone's interested), using the London Underground page as a guide/template. The article (and whole series, including station pages and templates) has been bugging me for a while, and with the network expanding and featuring more and more in the media, I thought it right to bring it up to a good standard.

Although I'm quite happy with sections, I'm still at quite a rough stage, and am not ready to present it as a viable alternative to the current organic article just yet! However, I was wondering if anybody was willing and able to find a way of getting some SVG maps on the Metrolink network uploaded? I was thinking something like this using File:Greater_Manchester_UK_location_map.svg, and the official route colours? If there's nobody in this project, does anybody know an editor/contact who may be able to help? --Jza84 |  Talk  18:15, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi all, I've made some more progress with this, but I'm struggling with referencing aspects of it - and want to avoid using the Light Rail Transit Association website as it looks like a tertiary source (and changes webpages quite often). Does anybody have references for the following seven outstanding issues?:
1) The original opening of Phase 1 of Metrolink was delayed by a period of months?
2) Parts of the original track in the city centre had to be amended and replaced due to poor design (something to do with buses driving over key kit)?
3) What was the public reaction to Phase 2/the Eccles Line? And why did it (apparently) fail to reach passenger targets?
4) TfGM forecast that Metrolink will serve a daily ridership of 190,000 passengers once Phase 3b is completed? (I've found a reference to 45 million per annum, which works out about 125,000 per day)
5) Anything about the design and acquisition of the six T-68As for the Eccles line? How do they differ from the original fleet?
6) Anything about the required level of service needed from Metrolink? I remember, some time ago, reading that Metrolink (or perhaps its operator) is contractually bound to provide 10 trams an hour on key routes 98% of the time. What is the service record like?
7)What is the historical patronage of Metrolink per year, every year? I've some sources for some of the last few years, but I think it's owed to readers to provide annual passenger numbers since 1992 if possible.
Hope you can help, --Jza84 |  Talk  19:30, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
The data can be found at [3]. Mr Stephen (talk) 20:46, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Thank you Mr Stephen - that's worked a treat. I've scored the question and I've put something together in the draft. If anybody else can help with the remaining 6 issues I'd be very grateful. If not, I'll post to Talk:Manchester Metrolink and see what comes up there. Thanks again. --Jza84 |  Talk  16:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Manchester Metrolink has been overwritten - hopefully it is improved. Again, if anyone wishes to sense-check and edit etc, I'd welcome it. It also has that annoying issue where references are displayed out of sequence - from memory there's a tool that can be used to clean that up if anybody has it or can point me in the right direction. --Jza84 |  Talk  09:27, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Eccles line link

Template:Eccles line link has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Redrose64 (talk) 19:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

History of Manchester Metrolink

Since the rewrite of the Manchester Metrolink article, History of Manchester Metrolink looks, IMHO, problematic/redundant/outdated. Could anybody lend their opinion to the discussion on Talk:History of Manchester Metrolink as to the best way forwards (whether that be rewrite/reformat/deletion/keep/imrpovement drive etc)? --Jza84 |  Talk  14:53, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Graham Finlayson

Hello Mancunians. Yesterday I created a perfunctory article on the photographer Graham Finlayson. Finlayson is not a very well known photographer, and perhaps the high point of his fame was his inclusion, just before his death, in a laudatory (and pigeon-hole-creating) survey of British photography of the early sixties: Young Meteors (by Martin Harrison). While Harrison does include at least one photo by Finlayson, unfortunately he says next to nothing about him. Still, since that time Finlayson has been a "young meteor".

From some point in the late 50s to 1965, Finlayson was based in Manchester, photographing first for the Daily Mail and then the Guardian. It seems that it's this rather short part of his career that's the best regarded. Likely good sources for him and this period are the following dead-tree publications:

  • What this calls "a free catalogue featuring articles by Geoffrey Moorhouse and Peter Hamilton" to accompany an exhibition titled "Graham Finlayson: Early photographs", held at the Guardian and Observer Archive and Visitor Centre (London) in 2005.
  • Graham Finlayson: Simply Black and White. Salford Quays: Lowry Press, 2006. I.e. published by the Lowry (art gallery) to accompany a 2006 exhibition of this title. No ISBN.
  • A Long Exposure: 100 Years of Pictures from Guardian Photographers in Manchester (1908–2008). [Manchester]: Axis Projects, 2008. ISBN 0955482534. Published to accompany another exhibition in the Lowry.

Here in Tokyo, it's rather difficult to get one's hands on any of these (other perhaps than by paying a lot of money to some dealer in the avaricious used-photobook market). If any of you is interested and near a library (or a reading room of the Lowry), do please take a look. (The first of the three is a very long shot, but perhaps somebody here knows somebody at the Guardian.) -- Hoary (talk) 05:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

The Botanical Vicar

I just caught the end of this progamme about local vicar The Reverend Charles Edward Shaw on Radio 4 which some of you may find interesting. It should shortly be available to listen to on iplayer. Richerman (talk) 11:36, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

New Metrolink stops

Could an admin please be able to move Milnrow railway station and New Hey railway station to Milnrow Metrolink station and Newhey Metrolink station (note the spelling of the latter request please)? Associated templates, categories and articles may also need updates. --Jza84 |  Talk  12:08, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

 Done both, although only the first needed an admin - the only history at Newhey Metrolink station was the creation of the redirect. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:31, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Timeline of Manchester Metrolink

User:Stevo1000 has kindly created a Timeline of Manchester Metrolink, which is simillar to the Timeline of London Underground. It needs some work to expand it however, and I believe that a little team work could easily make this a Featured List for the project - the MEN/local press has virtually every event documented to help make this very comprehensive, so hope the project can chip in! --Jza84 |  Talk  22:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Colonel John McClure, Founder of Heaton Mersey Cricket and Lacrosse.jpg

file:Colonel John McClure, Founder of Heaton Mersey Cricket and Lacrosse.jpg has been nominated for deletion. This is a portrait of his time as Lord Mayor of Stockport (Manchester). -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

If He founded the club in 1879 and the portrait is from 1884 then I think its close enough to the date to be relevant in the absence of a nearer match. Many pages have people with images from their old age talking about their youthful escapades. WatcherZero (talk) 03:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
You need to lodge your opinion at WP:PUF -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:54, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Possible source/EL for Whitefield

I am afraid that I cannot hear this video but I wonder if someone might care to review it for possible use as a source or external link in the Whitefield, Greater Manchester article. It may even have something of relevance for other articles, hence I ask here. NB: I knew this lady and her family well (and still have a motorbike and a mirror that old Mr Diggle left to me) - I've definitely got a COI here. - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Interesting video and an interesting lady, but I don't think there's anything much there to help with the Whitefield article. It could help with an article on Diggles though, should you be thinking of writing one. Malleus Fatuorum 18:54, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

East Didsbury

With East Didsbury set to have a new Metrolink station open in the next week or so, do we want to have individual East Didsbury railway station and East Didsbury Metrolink station articles, or do we want combined ones? Unlike, say, Rochdale railway station, these two entities are arguably and geographically separate. --Jza84 |  Talk  22:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Separate. According to the article it is "a newly-built station on the re-opened Cheshire Lines Committee route", and is "on the east side of the Kingsway, north of Parrs Wood Lane", and "approximately 200m north-east of the National Rail station of the same name". Ignoring for the moment one technical error (below), this means that not only is it some 200 metres away, but is on the other side of a major dual carriageway: they are significantly more widely-separated than Deansgate railway station and Deansgate-Castlefield Metrolink station (and without the convenience of a linking footbridge). It also indicates that it is on a different rail line, one which ran at right-angles to the line upon which East Didsbury railway station stands; the two lines never had a physical connection (and there is no indication that they ever will be connected).
The "technical error" to which I refer is the fact that the Cheshire Lines Committee (CLC) route out of Manchester Central ended at Chorlton Junction; beyond that point, two of the three co-owners of the CLC had their own lines, and the route between Chorlton Junction and New Mills Central, including the site of East Didsbury Metrolink station, belonged to the Midland Railway. This line is marked in green on this diagram, where the CLC lines are orange. Unfortunately, since the diagram dates from 1903, it doesn't show the LNWR route between Slade Lane Junction and Wilmslow, upon which East Didsbury railway station lies, because that route wasn't opened until 1909; but the 1909 line crosses the green line at approximately the point where the latter is marked "14c" - it crossed almost at right angles.
On these grounds, I !vote for separate articles. --Redrose64 (talk) 06:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I think that's sensible too, and came to the same conclusion last night. I suppose the situation is simillar to Eccles Interchange and Eccles railway station. I'll try and split out the articles shorly, and if a different POV comes along then we can aim to work that out, as and when. Thanks for the input Redrose64. --Jza84 |  Talk  11:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Chorlton-cum-Hardy

Because of recent activity there I am suspending any contribution to the Greater Manchester WikiProject.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Felix posted on this matter to my talk page, but I'm unclear what "the problem" is. I have only made one edit to that article, and that was after Felix's message. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:19, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
The problem is definitely not because of Redrose84. If the recent pattern of editing from IPs could be investigated it would help. It is unhelpful at least to reply to FFS's revert of tag removal with "sofixit yourself". The tags were added for good reason and as far as I can see in line with a general policy about maintaining the quality of articles. The tags mean that the lead section itself is not coordinated with the body of the article as I tried to declare on the Talk page. As a major contributor to the article in the past when few other contributors were around I stand aside from it now. Now Andrew Simpson's book is in the public domain there is potentially a long period of digesting his historical research into a form which can be included in this C-c=H article. Again that is something I am not prepared to do. --Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 21:02, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
I apologise to Redrose64 (not Redrose84). In principle I am willing to work within WikiProject Greater Manchester but will avoid the Chorlton-cum-Hardy article. I have worked alongside those editors who have tended to add unencyclopaedic content (see also Whalley Range, Greater Manchester) for a while. Jza84 does extremely good work within the project; however I felt that tagging the C-c-H article as a whole "essaylike" may have been inappropriate ("tagging for clean-up ({{essay-like}}); although well-meaning, some of this content is very POV and personalised"): perhaps the length of the article deterred editors from intervening. Within the next few days I shall probably take a holiday from contributing.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 14:43, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
Apologies if I added that and upset you/any part of the team. I genuinely can't remember if it was me, but it sounds like something I'd do - so I'm sorry! On reflection the article appeared to be a mix of very good and some bad which was trailing off into personal opinions - but nothing the team couldn't sort out in a differnt way I suppose. A few of these south Mancs articles could do with a bit of TLC and upgrades, but they're otherwise pretty good IMHO. --Jza84 |  Talk  22:15, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
FFS could see some reason for the essaylike tagging as it would be too laborious to make a list of all the sections which were less encyclopaedic. Some time later there were editors removing the tag and then getting reverted; my revert (followed by a talk page explanation) was followed by be told "sofixit yourself". Raising the whole article to another level is not a job to be undertaken lightly, hence the lack of volunteers.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 01:21, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Manchester city centre

Hi all, I would welcome views and discussion at Talk:Manchester city centre to reconcile the article with consensus and source material. --Jza84 |  Talk  22:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi all - sadly no joy (facing opposition in the form of this). Is there anybody out there who can help improve this important lead of an important article? Looking at the edit history this is a single editor against a larger body. --Jza84 |  Talk  22:20, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
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