Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation/Incomplete disambiguation draft
Purpose[edit]
To present a revision pertaining to this discussion.
The issues[edit]
- Editors are creating an increasing number of pages that would previously have been considered as incomplete disambiguation and in most cases would be merged and redirected back to the base name disambiguation page. This represents a divergence from the current guidance.
- The primary concern is for disambiguation pages that have parenthetical qualifiers (see Category:Disambiguation pages with (qualified) titles).
- For example, there is an existing disambiguation page for Arteaga -- and there is an incomplete disambiguation page at Arteaga (footballer). In the past, pages such as this would be merged and redirected, but there are many similar pages that persist and are being cited as other stuff to justify the creation of more.
- A number of related topics are mostly tangential, but may have some role in this:
- Double disambiguation
- Partially disambiguated page names (WP:PDAB or WP:PARTIALDAB)
- Transclusion using {{transclude list}} -- where and how to present this as an option
- A secondary, related issue is the lack of clarity with regards to the terms such as "Double disambiguation", Incomplete disambiguation", and "Partial disambiguation" or "Partially disambiguated page names". These terms entered the Wikipedia lexicon at different times and with varying degrees of prior discussion (for example, double disambiguation had none and was essentially only a merge of a separate page created by a sockpuppet of a banned user). These have since accrued somewhat differing interpretations.
- A tertiary issue concerns the location of WP:DOUBLEDAB and WP:INCDAB as subsections under Disambiguation#Links where both currently appear to describe something other than links as their main purpose.
Option 1[edit]
A proposal by swpb to update text in WP:DOUBLEDAB and WP:INCDAB
Option 2[edit]
Double disambiguation[edit]
| Current | Proposed |
|---|---|
| A double disambiguation is an entry on a disambiguation page pointing to a more specifically named disambiguation page, rather than to an article. This kind of disambiguation is relatively rare on Wikipedia. In some cases, entries from the secondary page can be transcluded onto the primary disambiguation page with {{transclude list}}.
For example, Montgomery is a disambiguation page that includes a link to Montgomery County, a secondary disambiguation page. Because the intended target page is also a disambiguation page, the link is to "Montgomery County (disambiguation)" rather than directly to "Montgomery County". There are two reasons for this: One is so the page will not show up as an error needing to be fixed, and the other is so our readers know it is a link to a disambiguation page . |
A double disambiguation is an entry on a disambiguation page pointing to a more specifically named disambiguation page. Such disambiguation pages consist of entities that are known by the more specific name.
For example, Montgomery is a disambiguation page that includes a link to Montgomery County, a separate disambiguation page. The items listed at Montgomery County are named "Montgomery County", although they may sometimes also be referred to as simply "Montgomery". Other examples sometimes treated similarly are <Foo> University, <Foo> Township, <Foo> River, etc., where there is an existing disambiguation page for <Foo>. Because the intended target page is also a disambiguation page, the link is to "Montgomery County (disambiguation)" rather than directly to "Montgomery County" . In some cases, especially where there are only a few entries for the more specific name and the base name disambiguation is not large, the contents of the more specific page may be merged with the base name disambiguation page. The more specifically named page should then redirect to the base name page (or to a section within that page). In effect, this results in the more specific name being considered as a type of § incomplete disambiguation. For example, there are two streams known as Baia River. These rivers are merged into a "Rivers" section on Baia (disambiguation) and the redirect at Baia River points to #REDIRECT [[Baia (disambiguation)#Rivers]]. Where the more specifically named page is not merged into the base name disambiguation page, entries from the page can be transcluded onto the primary disambiguation page with {{transclude list}}. In this case it is not necessary to include a separate link to the more specifically named disambiguation page. |
Incomplete disambiguation[edit]
Below is text from the current version]:
| Current | Proposed |
|---|---|
|
Usually, a qualified title that is still ambiguous has no primary topic, and therefore should redirect to the disambiguation page (or to a section of it). This aids navigation and helps editors avoid accidentally creating new articles under the still-ambiguous title. Such redirects should be marked with #REDIRECT [[Aurora (disambiguation)#Albums]]
{{Rcat shell|
{{R from incomplete disambiguation}}
{{R to section}}
}}
In some cases, it may be more appropriate to redirect readers to a list rather than a disambiguation page. For example, Cleveland (NFL) should not be a disambiguation page, but should instead redirect to List of Cleveland sports teams#Football. In individual cases consensus may determine that a parenthetically disambiguated title that is still ambiguous has a primary topic, but the threshold for identifying a primary topic for such titles is higher than for a title without parenthetical disambiguation. As with any other term with a primary topic, it should either be the title of the article for that topic or redirect to it. See List of partially disambiguated article titles. |
Incomplete disambiguation occurs when disambiguation is applied to a title (such as a parenthetical qualifier or a comma-separated phrase) but is still ambiguous. In most cases, the qualified title should redirect to the disambiguation page (or to a section of it). This aids navigation and helps editors avoid accidentally creating new articles under the still-ambiguous title. Such redirects should be marked with #REDIRECT [[Aurora (disambiguation)#Albums]]
{{Rcat shell|
{{R from incomplete disambiguation}}
{{R to section}}
}}
In relatively rare cases, consensus may determine that there is a primary topic for a partially disambiguated title that would otherwise be ambiguous. The threshold for identifying a primary topic for such partially disambiguated titles is higher than a primary topic for a title without parenthetical disambiguation. For example, Thriller (album) is an article about the Michael Jackson album even though there are several other albums titled "Thriller". Discussion determined that the Michael Jackson album is far more well-known than any of the others and should be treated as a primary topic. As with any other term with a primary topic, a partially disambiguated page name should either be the title of the article for that topic or redirect to it. (.) In some cases, it may be more appropriate for the partially disambiguated title to redirect readers to a list article or to a set index article rather than a disambiguation page. For example, Cleveland (NFL) is not a disambiguation page, but instead redirects to List of Cleveland sports teams#Football. There may also be cases where the base name disambiguation page is large and there is a significant subset of entries of a similar type that can be contained on a separately named disambiguation or list page. It may make it easier for readers to find a specific entry on the separate page rather than having to search through a large combined disambiguation page. For example, Newton is a sizeable disambiguation page and it is a common place name in the United Kingdom. List of places called Newton in the United Kingdom is more comprehensive listing of such places. Rather than duplicate the contents, the disambiguation page links to that separate list article. As another option, the separate secondary disambiguation page can be transcluded onto the primary disambiguation page with {{transclude list}}. In this case it is not necessary to include a separate link to the more specifically named disambiguation page. |
Other considerations[edit]
- Move both WP:DOUBLEDAB and WP:INCDAB subsections from WP:Disambiguation#Links to level four subsections under Combining terms on disambiguation pages
- Create a new level four subsection under Combining terms on disambiguation pages to present transclusion for disambiguation pages using {{transclude list}}
- No changes to Wikipedia:Partially disambiguated page names other than to update back links.
Discussion[edit]
I can see where Option 2 is going, and it doesn't seem objectionable to me, but it's quite a lot of verbiage. There must be a way to compress this. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 22:53, 15 November 2023 (UTC)