Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Milorad Petrović

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 07:20, 13 February 2019 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Milorad Petrović[edit]

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Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk)

Milorad Petrović (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Petrović was the commander of the Yugoslav 1st Army Group during the Axis invasion of that country in April 1941. I've garnered all I can on him from sources in English and Serbo-Croat, including the standard bio text on Yugoslav generals, Bjelajac. This article forms part of the ten-article 1st Army Group Good Topic, which I am now slowly moving towards a Featured Topic. I plan to take this to FAC if successful here, so any suggestions for improvements in that regard would also be gratefully received. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:55, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Indy beetle[edit]

Hello Peacemaker. My first comment:

  • You've cited Binder, but you do not include his statement that Petrović published a two volume memoir accounting his retreat through the Albanian mountains, entitled Across Albania.

-Indy beetle (talk) 18:51, 10 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Good pickup. I didn't add that bit from Binder, so wasn't aware of that work. Have now added it to the article. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:10, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments:

  • After completing his primary and secondary education, Milorad was appointed as an officer cadet in the Royal Serbian Army, and attended the Military Academy in Belgrade. Being "appointed" as an officer cadet seems odd. "Enrolled" seems better, unless this is not how things worked in the Serbian army at the time?
    • Appointed is common Brit/Aust English terminology when dealing with officer cadets and commissioned officers. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:00, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • On 4 October 1908, he was appointed to command a company. Lots of "appointing" going on here. Maybe "he was given command of a company".
  • commanded troops at Skopje's central railway station during an Albanian revolt. Did these troops see combat?
  • Not provided in the source I'm afraid. I've tried to establish the details of the revolt, but haven't turned anything up as yet. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:00, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • A brief note on how the new government brought to power in the Yugoslav coup was less inclined to give in to German demands would be helpful.
  • Cyrillic translation for "Lord" seems applicable.
  • On the other hand, the translation varies even within Serbo-Croat (the Latin script of sh also uses Lord as an alternative translation of Lord), and Bjelajac just uses "Lord", so I think I'll just stick to what is in the source rather than guessing which of the applicable Serbo-Croat words is the correct one. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:00, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Serbian Wikipedia article cites information from Bjelajac that's not included in this article e.g. he was the last general of the Royal Yugoslav Army to die. The article also cites a list of honors awarded to him from Antun Miletic's book, Српски ђенерали у жицама: 1941—1945. If this is accurate, it should be cited and included in this article. -Indy beetle (talk) 22:23, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I just re-read Bjelajac, and I don't see that there. I'll check the other stuff. Normally I stay clear of Miletić, but awards seem mundane enough. I'm AGF that the sr WP info is legit at this stage, as I haven't got a copy of Miletić myself to refer to. I'll request a scan of the page via RX to verify and see if there is anything else in it about his POW internment, hopefully someone will have access. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:00, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source Review – pass

  • All the information from Binder is accurately represented.
  • Most of the information from this article is cited to documents published by academic presses. The nominator and primary author have a history of successful A-class promotions without much concern, so I do not believe further scrutiny of this information is necessary.
  • Seeing as the Miletić material was included on the assumption that it was added with good faith to the Serbian article, and noting the failure of RX to provide the source, I've put in a request through my university inter-library loan system to have the book delivered. I presume this will be successful, but it may take some time. @Peacemaker67: I do not speak or otherwise have any knowledge about the Serbian language, and Google translate can only get me so far, so I may send you a scan of the relevant pages for additional verification. I agree that a list of military honours is uncontroversial, but could you please elaborate your concerns about Miletić. Does he write with a pro-Serbian slant? -Indy beetle (talk) 19:10, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • That would be great Indy beetle, hopefully it is one in the Latin script. I can read the Latin script fairly easily, but my Cyrillic is virtually non-existent, so I need to use Google Translate to help and it can be a laborious process, switching my keyboard to Cyrillic, typing it in etc. Miletić is a respected scholar on many aspects of Yugoslavia in WWII, particularly on the Partisans, but his work Koncentracioni logor Jasenovac was one that was chiefly responsible for the highly exaggerated estimates of numbers killed at the Jasenovac concentration camp (600K–700K, mostly Serbs). Recent scholarship puts the number at around 100K, with a bit over half being Serbs. His work was so influential within Yugoslavia that the camp article is still constantly beset with POV warriors trying to insert the higher figures. So, it would depend on what Miletić says about Petrović. A list of medals or a list of POW camps he was held in is one thing, but anything controversial I would want corroboration before inserting it in the article. Does that make sense? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 22:32, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. Unfortunately, it appears there was only a Cyrillic copy, so happy typing to us! -Indy beetle (talk) 01:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Peacemaker67: I have acquired the book. How should I send you a photo? IF you wish to do so via Wiki-email, you'll have to email me first so I can get your address, as the built-in function on the pages doesn't allow for photos to be attached to messages. -Indy beetle (talk) 20:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've sent you an email. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:20, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Peacemaker67: Page sent. -Indy beetle (talk) 02:25, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing on that page about Petrović I'm afraid. You could try looking on adjacent pages or the index for Милорад Петровић, but given that was the page used in the Serbian Wikipedia article, perhaps this fails verification? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:44, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've already done the former, and unfortunately there is no index in the book. It's a shame, because he's probably in that book somewhere, but trying to find him would be a painstaking process. At this point I'd say verification has failed, so the awards info should be removed. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:53, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed that material from Miletić, Indy beetle. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:23, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed, and overall support offered. Great work! -Indy beetle (talk) 18:14, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support from AustralianRupert[edit]

G'day, I reviewed this at GAN late last year and have reviewed the changes since then. Overall, I think it meets the A-class criteria. I have a couple of minor suggestions: AustralianRupert (talk) 08:52, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Branislav qualified as a lawyer then.. --> "Branislav qualified as a lawyer and then..."?
  • into three groups; those...: suggest a colon here rather than a semi colon
  • given the option of returning: was the option to remain in Germany, or return? Do we know where in Germany he was held and who liberated him (i.e. western Allies or Soviets?)
  • Yes, that makes sense. Hopefully, one day someone will write something that clarifies this a little further. AustralianRupert (talk) 00:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • and published a two-volume work about the withdrawal, entitled Across Albania: is there a year that could be added for when this was published?
  • Note d is possibly unnecessary because of Note a?

Thanks for taking a look, AustralianRupert! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:57, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, sorry I've been a bit absent from ACR recently. Struggling a bit time and energy-wise due to my new role, which I think is going to take what little remains of my soul in the next few months. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 00:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I'm about to start my annual Anzac Day gig, so I won't be around as much starting Tuesday either. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:39, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - The image used in the article seems to have a correct non-free rationale. AGF that there are not free-use alternatives. Parsecboy (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Sturmvogel_66[edit]

  • No DABs, external links OK
  • fifth column elements Suggest "fifth columnists" in the lede
  • What kind of division was the Timocka Division? Same with Drinska Division.
  • When did he get promoted to the Serb equivalent of colonel?
  • Good question, presumably when he took over as chief of staff of the Infantry Division Drinska, but the source doesn't provide that information. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hyphenate fifth column elements
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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