Wikipedia:Peer review/Joseph Goebbels/archive1

Joseph Goebbels

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…

This article failed a FA nomination a while ago, but has been significantly improved since then, with extremely complete referencing. The only thing I can see being a possible issue with this article is the length, but I wouldn't consider this a serious problem, given the importance of the subject. I think that it's almost ready for another shot at FA, but would like any feedback from anyone as to what the possible problems with the article could be at this point in time.

Thanks, J.StuartClarke (talk) 16:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch comments: Overall well done and seems fairly close to ready for FAC to me (though usually someone there will find somthing else to fix ;-) ). Here are my questions, mostly nit-picky. I also speak German, so I may have some questions that a non-German speaker would not.

• Word choice (because) Goebbels earned a Ph.D. in Heidelberg University in 1921, because of a doctoral thesis on 18th century romantic drama; ... I think writing a doctoral thesis on.. or even with a doctoral thesis on.. would be better than "because"
• By late 1943, the war had turned into a disaster for the Axis powers, ... I agree with the statement, but some at FAC might see the word disaster as POV or want a reference
• Watch out for wordiness - for example, would it be OK to say ..following the Führer's suicide he served as the second Chancellor of the Third Reich—albeit for one day.
• Goebbels was educated at a local grammar school, where he completed his Abitur (school leaving examination) My knowledge of the German school system is current (not 1910s), but I would not call a German Gymnasium a "grammar school" and I would try to make it clear that the Abitur is the also the entrance exam for University.
• I would cite the sentence that gives his height (even if it is the same ref used a few sentences later)
• Try to be consistent about German words and phrases - earlier the article gives the German word (Gauleiter, Abitur) then the English translation in parentheses after. I would do the same for office soldier (Bürosoldat?) The nearest he came to military service was as an "office soldier"... Same thing with "Patriotic Help Unit".[4] a bit later
• Any chance of writing stubs for the two red links? Not required, but I always like an FAC with no red links and it expands the encylcopedia
• Cite Goebbels compensated for his physical frailty with intellectual accomplishments.
• This quote is confusing - I think it needs to be put into context, who is writing this and why - see WP:PCR. Also the quote within the quote makes it more difficult to follow, and in the context explain at the start who Michael-Goebbels is: "The very name of the hero, Michael, to whom he gave many autobiographical features, suggests the way his self-identification was pointing: a figure of light, radiant, tall, unconquerable," and above all 'To be a soldier! To stand sentinel! One ought always to be a soldier,' wrote Michael-Goebbels."[7]
• Give the date he wrote his novel so saying it was not published until 1929 makes his wait / frustration clearer
• which he is unclear in in the Rhineland party newspaper National-sozialistische Briefe (National-Socialist Letters), of which he was editor, in mid 1925.
• Long block quote at end of Nazi Activist section (Fest writes...) is uncited
• Read WP:HEAD for capitalization of headers (so "Nazi activist") and not including the name of the article in headers if possible (so "Goebbels and the Jews" should be changed, perhaps to "Relation to the Jews"??)
• The citation should be at the end of sentence with a direct quote in it, even if it is repeated later so "Beware, you dogs," he wrote to his former "friends of the left": "When the Devil is loose in me you will not curb him again." needs a ref / citation. Ditto for "our little doctor" sentence a bit later
• I try to keep chronological order - the Horst Wessel quote is 1929, the next sentence is 1928. Any reason they can't be switched in order?
• I think it is useful to end each paragraph with a citation (several have the last sentence or two uncited)
• Image:What is an aryan.jpg needs a better fair use rationale (see WP:FAIR USE)
• I will not mention uncited paragraphs after this, but the first paragraph in "Propaganda Minister" section needs a ref
• Lead says Bebelplatz (modern name), body says Opernplatz (name at the the time). I would at least add an explanation that the name is now Bebelplatz
• This sentence is unclear: However, this proposal was absurd given Göring’s increasing incapacity and, more importantly, Hitler’s increasing contempt for him due to the need of having a scapegoat in order to shift the blame for Germany's defeats from the Führer, that it was doomed to failure.

Overall well done, but still needs more citations and a careful copyedit. Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:09, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• One more thought - I like the pictures used in the article, but it is a long article and several sections have no images. Given his role in the instigation of Kristallnacht, perhaps a picture of it would be useful in the Jews section? Probably should try for an image a section. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

SGGH

I have just one comment-question in light of the fisch's excellent review above. In the infobox image caption "head of the propaganda machine" smacks to me as slightly POV as (I myself feel) "propaganda machine" has a slightly anti-establishment anti-propaganda-esque tinge to it. Because of this, and in light of how open the Nazi party were with thier propaganda ministry, should it not just be propaganda ministry not machine? Or if that is unsuitable because of the name of the later, more developed ministry, perhaps some other title. Just not "machine"? I may be nit-picking but a peer review is a good place to bring it up. Good article. --SGGH ^speak! 17:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much so far. I can't make the changes immediately, but after the weekend I shall plough through them. Thanks particually to Ruhrfisch. --J.StuartClarke (talk) 12:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)