Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pierce Brosnan/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 00:34, 18 April 2008.

Pierce Brosnan[edit]

Well on the way to FA Ultra! 23:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Issues resolved, Ealdgyth - Talk 04:37, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • A large number of your refs lack publisher information and some also lack last access date information
    • Done Ultra! 16:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Second reference (Hello!) is lacking publisher information. I'd also have to say the title would probaby be "Actor Profile: Pierce Brosnan", not "HELLO" which is the name of the magazine's site. And two more at the bottom of the ref list, current refs 65 (the official Pierce brosnan site) 66 (sustainable style foundation) and 70 (sea shepherds). Also current ref 75 is a bald link.
  • http://theblobsite.filmbuffonline.com//News/2005/NewBondNamed.htm deadlinks for me as does http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2006/07/10/daily18.html
  • Does http://www.showbiz.ie/about/ have a reputation for fact checking? Granted the information it's referencing isn't contentious)
  • http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001096/bio is probably not a reliable source for Timonthy Dalton's biography.
  • What makes http://www.moviehole.net/ a reliable source?
  • WHat makes http://www.mi6.co.uk/mi6.php3 a reliable site?
  • You format the Pierce Brosnan website different ways: piercebrosnan.com or The Official Pierce Brosnan, be consistent.
    • Done Ultra! 16:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Still a few inconsistencies.
  • What makes http://www.ecorazzi.com/2007/04/11/pierce-brosnan-and-co-win-battle-against-natural-gas-terminal/ a reliable source?
    • All other links checked out fine with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:18, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Just to chip in, MI6.co.uk is a reliable source. Alientraveller (talk) 12:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    I've seen boxofficemojo cited all over the web for release figures and would probably consider it reliable. Karanacs (talk) 19:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, it's accepted by film guidelines. Ultra! 16:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd also like to echo the statements by the other reviewers. Leaving a note on my talk page just saying "Please strike comments" I saw as somewhat demanding. It would have helped if instead of just "done" you'd told me what you had done exactly on the various issues. With thihngs like putting in publishers, I don't need notes on what you did, but for others where you might have changed out a reference or other problems, it helps if I have some idea of what was done. especially as I'm traveling at the moment and on a laptop which makes finding changes harder. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Comments—This is not yet up to standard in terms of 1a. Keep working on the prose; preferably, find a collaborator who's unfamiliar with it and can use her strategic distance to advantage. Easy to find problems, just in the lead. The whole text is at issue, not just these examples.

    • "Brosnan desired to be an artist"—Please use plain English: "wanted to be". When I read "artist", I thought it was referring to his acting (as an art); then we're hit with "but". Do you mean "graphic artist"?
    • Please delink trivial chronological items such as "1996".
    • "He became a naturalized United States citizen in 2004."—Am I missing something? Can we dispense with "naturalized"?
    • MOS breach: "His current projects are"—How long will they be current for? Use an unlinked "As of 2008, his ...". TONY (talk) 12:20, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment Definitely needs a copyedit. --Una Smith (talk) 21:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    *Oppose: criterion three concerns:

      • I’m not comfortable with Image:PierceBrosnan(CannesPhotoCall).jpg. Self-made photos rarely have such a candid vantage point, rarely have such small, non-standard dimensions (400 × 606) and rarely fail to contain camera metadata (this has only Photoshop tags); these are big red flags. Was this image taken from this site? The uploader has a talk page with several concern/deletion notifications. I’m not comfortable with the article utilizing this image. Quack.
      • Image:Young Brosnan.jpg appears to violate WP:NFCC#3A which says “one [fair use image] is used only if necessary”. Why is it necessary to see a young Brosnan? What significant contribution does this photo make to our understanding (required per NFCC#8)? Free images of Brosnan as an adult are both capable of being obtained and perfectly adequate to facilitate understanding (NFCC#1).
      • Image:Brosnan at Madame Tussauds.jpg does not have the correct license. The Flickr user has released it under Attribution 2.0 Generic, not Attribution 3.0. ЭLСОВВОLД talk 14:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • done. Ultra! 18:32, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Stricken of my own accord. Please allow reviewers to strike their own comments going forward so Sandy/Raul can ensure they have been addressed to the reviewer's satisfaction. ЭLСОВВОLД talk 18:45, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Issues resolved. Karanacs (talk) 14:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • This sentence is convoluted and too long., "Brosnan's mother moved to London, England, for work, after his father had abandoned the family, and in 1964, at the age of eleven, Brosnan joined his mother,[4] leaving Ireland on August 12, 1964, the very day of Ian Fleming's death.[5]"
      • When did May Brosnan move to London? Where did Brosnan stay while his mother was gone?
      • "the very day of Ian Fleming's death.[5]" - this seems very out of place at this point in the article.
      • When did Brosnan's mother remarry? Did he end up joining her just because she got married?
        • done It all happened in 1964 Ultra! 16:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Why is his first crush relevant to the article? Did this have any bearing on anything later in his life?
      • Was he busking while still a student at Central Saint Martins? Did he leave the school to join the circus? Where did he learn how to do fire eating? How long did he stay with the circus?
      • "rosnan got a job as an acting assistant stage manager at the York Theatre Royal, making his first stage appearance in Wait Until Dark." - does the second half of this sentence mean first acting appearance or first acting asst stage manager job?
      • This sentence is overly clunky "1986, Brosnan was actually offered the role of James Bond before the Remington Steele series had come to an end (it was unexpectedly renewed for another year), and he was unable to break his contract with the show's producers."
      • The information about Brosnan turning down the James Bond role because of Remington Steel is duplicated in the article. It does not need to be in both places.
      • There is a citation needed tag in the article
      • Is this really needed in the article? "In February 2007, Brosnan pulled out of attending the IFTA Awards ceremony in Dublin due to his stepfather William Carmichael's serious illness" At the very least, it does not fit where it is. The information on him becoming a US citizen does not belong in a section called "Family" either.
      • There should not be any external link sin the main part of the article.
      • Not all references are formatted properly. Many don't have publishers
  • Oppose. The article needs a thorough copyedit. There are also a few MOS issues, improperly formatted refs, and I think another look at the organization is in order. Please note that the copyedit concerns below are examples - this is not a full list.
    • Newspaper names should be italicized
    • There is no mention of his marriage until the James Bond section. I see that later in the article there is a Family section; this should be incorporated into the rest of the biography
    • Per WP:ELLIPSES, there should be a space, then three dots, then a space.
    • The first paragraph of the James Bond section does not flow at all.
      • Done Ultra! 16:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)][reply]
        • There is still little transition between the thoughts. It doesn't read well. Karanacs (talk) 14:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Lots of overly colloquial terms - "got a job", "left the door open", "brought things full circle ", "made" instead of earned/grossed/etc, "kept in mind", "right up until"

    • Karanacs (talk) 16:00, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    I revisited today. While some of the specific concerns have been addressed (in a very timely fashion!), the overall quality of the prose is not up to FA status. If you don't know any good copyeditors, I'd recommend requesting that the League of Copyeditors give you a hand. My oppose will stand until the article has gotten a thorough copyedit. Karanacs (talk) 14:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose The prose is very poor. Here are some examples:
      • desired to be ?
        • Done Ultra! 15:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • No not done: Brosnan desired to be an artist in the Lead.
    • Done Ultra! 18:36, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • for work as a nurse
      • William Charmichael.[4][5]Brosnan quickly embraced his mother's new husband as a father figure.[4] Carmichael took Brosnan Is it Charmichael or Carmichael?
      • Brosnan's first met Albert R. Broccoli, producer of the James Bond films, he visited his first wife ???

    In the UK we don't have High Schools so why When he attended high school, his nickname was "Irish".

    And the section about charitable works begins with a whole paragraph about politics: Brosnan supported John Kerry in the 2004 Presidential election and is a vocal supporter of gun control and same-sex marriage.[65] An outspoken environmentalist,[66] Brosnan was named 'Best-dressed Environmentalist' in 2004 by the Sust... GrahamColmTalk 13:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • Done Ultra! 15:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • And there is more, His portrayal of the Shaw. ? and, and w0ould cause damage to the marinme life there. There are other examples, please check the whole article and not just the points raised here. GrahamColmTalk 17:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • PS. WRT the demand you made on my Talk page to strike out my comments, reviewers are not obliged to do this. The onus is on the nominator to explain exactly what , if any, edits have been made in response to reviews. Strike outs are made solely for the benefit of the v. busy FAC directors. I will strike out my comments when I'm convinced that the whole article has been thoroughly copy edited. GrahamColmTalk 21:25, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    Mere comments ---> oppose declaration. I was asked to return, even though I hadn't formally opposed. Rather, I made comments, which meant that I didn't want to have to come back. But on reflection, I'm moving to an Oppose.

    • Why do I find things such as "Brosnan's first met Albert R. Broccoli, producer of the James Bond films, while meeting his first wife, Cassandra Harris, on the set of For Your Eyes Only." Eeuuuwww. Grammar and repetitions; commas are chaotic. That was the first sentence I laid eyes on.
    • Then ellipsis dots without the spaces that are required by MOS.
    • Then "... to replace then Bond Roger Moore"—ah, you mean "... to replace the then Bond, Roger Moore"?

    This is not good enough, and the hard work other reviewers have put in to demonstrate why the writing needs to be significantly improved throughout has not been carried through—merely subverted by the addressing of their examples alone. Sorry to be so blunt. A collaborator is necessary. TONY (talk) 12:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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