Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Donkey Kong Land/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 19 February 2023 [1].

Donkey Kong Land[edit]

Nominator(s): JOEBRO64 15:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This 1995 Game Boy game attempted to bring the groundbreaking pre-rendered graphics of Donkey Kong Country to vastly inferior hardware. Rare was well known for pushing the hardware they were working with to its limits, and Donkey Kong Land is no exception. It's hardly a classic nowadays, despite being one of the bestselling Game Boy games (and the bestselling handheld Donkey Kong game)—the visuals are a muddy mess, making it incredibly difficult to play, and subsequent handheld ports of Donkey Kong Country rendered it obsolete within just a few years. Still, it's hard not to appreciate the craftsmanship and novelty of Donkey Kong Land's ambitions. I recently expanded this article from a stub and I think it satisfies all FA criteria. Hope you enjoy the article! JOEBRO64 15:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Funk[edit]

  • Nice to see this here, as I only owned the Game Boy versions myself as a kid. Will review soon. FunkMonk (talk) 15:15, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure how far the sources go into this, but it seems it is lacking some description of what the specific differences were between this and DKC? For example mention of some of the new enemies, like flying pigs, and that the player now just turns into the animals like Rambi instead of riding them?
    • Hi FunkMonk, I've added a mention of the different enemy varieties. As for transforming into animals, that wasn't in Donkey Kong Land, that was the Color version of Country—in Land you still ride them as in the SNES game. JOEBRO64 14:05, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, I played both, so mixed them up. FunkMonk (talk) 22:18, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Some levels feature two animal companions, the rhino Rambi and the ostrich Expresso" Maybe sat "either of the two animals" as it now reads like it's always both in the same levels?
    • Changed to "Some levels feature one of two animal companions" JOEBRO64 21:48, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The project pushed the Game Boy to its limits as its graphics, particularly to construct levels with slopes—rather than square tiles like other Game Boy games—and animate collectibles, required a greater ROM size." This is a rather convoluted sentence with multiple interposed sentences, any way to split it up or simplify?
    • Split it into two sentences—should be easier to read now JOEBRO64 21:48, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "or original as the 1994 Game Boy Donkey Kong" Perhaps worth mentioning earlier that it was the second Donkey King game for the Game Boy?
  • "Following Donkey Kong Land's release, Michael Teitelbaum wrote a children's book adaptation, Rumble in the Jungle." A bit difficult to decipher what the relation is between the two. Does it specifically adapt DKL, or is it a general DKC tie in?
    • Yeah it's an adaptation of Land specifically. I've clarified. JOEBRO64 21:48, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Nintendo distributed Land in yellow cartridges" State if this is related to bananas, if the sources do?
  • "(CVG calling it superior)" Wow, on what basis?
    • They (somehow) felt it played better than the SNES game and said it was better for that reason, though they don't go into too much detail. I've clarified this in the article JOEBRO64 14:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and a Game Boy Color port of Donkey Kong Country (2000), which re-uses Land's graphics and audio" Perhaps add something like "to recreate that game" or similar, as now it is a bit unclear?
    • I've amended it to "... re-creates the SNES game using Land's graphics and audio" JOEBRO64 21:58, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@FunkMonk: thank you for the review! I've responded to all points JOEBRO64 14:55, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - very nice to see this here (brought good memories), wouldn't have thought I'd see the day. FunkMonk (talk) 15:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Donkey_Kong_Land_Screenshot.png: in the FUR the "minimal use" criterion needs improvement, and in "purpose of use" it's not clear how a single file can be used comparatively?

Also noted in passing that there's a harv error in references that needs fixing. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:41, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Nikkimaria, I've improved the FUR and clarified purpose of use. Fixed the harv error too—one of the references was missing a date. JOEBRO64 14:05, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

Looking through the sources. Have seen the Nintendo Life ones, the Retro Video Gamer, the interviews, and most of the ones with links and archives. Haven't looked at the ISSN ones yet. From all I've seen, they are relevant and accurate. Please do NOT take my word alone for it. Horsesizedduck (talk) 22:27, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Horsesizedduck, am I to take this as a pass for a source review? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:34, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. But remember I can only vouch for what I've seen, and I couldn't see them all Horsesizedduck (talk) 21:05, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Horsesizedduck: if you'd like to check the magazines, all of the 1995 ones can be found on Internet Archive and RetroCDN. I can email you the Retro Gamer articles if you'd like. JOEBRO64 13:59, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@TheJoebro64 You know what, absolutely! Horsesizedduck (talk) 19:24, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Horsesizedduck: I've sent you an email, once you reply with your address I'll send the articles. JOEBRO64 20:49, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Horsesizedduck: sorry, forgot to say that you should include your email address in the email you send. For some reason, Wikipedia doesn't provide that information itself JOEBRO64 20:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is a Support from me, having gone through the sources. This is a great article! Horsesizedduck (talk) 23:35, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from TarkusAB[edit]

I'll review by this weekend. Ping me if I forget. TarkusABtalk/contrib 19:10, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@TarkusAB: just a nudge JOEBRO64 14:37, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • gets King K. Rool and the Kremlings to steal their banana hoard again There's gotta be a better word than "gets" here. Something like "coaxes" or "asks"...I'm not sure exactly how Cranky goes about this.
  • by collecting balloons or 100 bananas I think spelling out 100 would be the proper thing, i.e. "by collecting balloons or a hundred bananas."
  • the Game Boy programmer Paul Machacek By "the Game Boy programmer" I assume you mean the resident GB programmer at Rare. It may make more sense to say their GB programmer instead of the, as it kind of sounds like Machacek programmed the Game Boy hardware itself, like he is the original GB programmer from Nintendo.
    • Done. I think I'd actually written it as "their" before but mistakenly changed it at some point JOEBRO64 17:01, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • To account for the Game Boy's smaller and slower display, the team did not re-use level layouts from Country, made boss fights more predictable, and gave Expresso the ability to defeat enemies. It's not clear what the relationship between these things are. The display is small/slow so they gave Expresso an attack ability? Huh? What I think you mean to say is the smaller/slower display introduced unintended difficulty, so they made the game easier by creating new level layouts, making the boss fights more predictable, giving Expresso an attack ability
    • Changed to "Because the Game Boy's smaller and slower display made reacting to obstacles more difficult" JOEBRO64 03:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • They positioned the K–O–N–G letters as the save feature to make completing the game easier. I'm not sure what this passage means. Are you just saying they added a save feature to make the game easier? I don't understand this "They positioned the K–O–N–G letters as the save feature"
    • Clarified, now says "They turned the K–O–N–G letters into a save feature, rather than having them provide an extra life as in Country, to make completing the game easier" JOEBRO64 03:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...as the teams developing the SNES sequels, Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest (1995) and Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble (1996), did. I think it's kinda awkward to end the sentence the way it is with the "did". I wonder if you can reword this sentence to avoid that awkwardness.
    • I removed "did" and changed it to "... introducing new worlds and design elements in a similar way to the teams..." Let me know if you think that's better JOEBRO64 03:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • unlike other Game Boy games, which came in gray ones. I think you can omit the word "ones". Also, "grey" with an E is the more common BrEng spelling, while "gray" is more common in AmEng. (though either spelling is acceptable in both varieties)
  • It may be helpful to mention that the Game Boy is monochromatic in the development section when you are talking about how they created the artwork. You mention that they took techniques from Country artwork (a color game), and say later that the Super Game Boy added color palettes, and talk about criticism of the monochromatic visuals in Reception, but never introduced this fact.
  • Land received three follow-up games, which attempted to replicate the SNES Country games more closely Replicate in what sense? You talked about how they introduced original gameplay in this game to keep it fresh and apart from Country. Did they walk back on that? Are they talking just overall quality, or purely from a technical perspective?
    • Yeah they walked back. In contrast to Land, Land 2 and Land III are much closer to the SNES games (they don't feature any new level themes, enemies, or bosses, though Land III's level design takes some more liberties). I've clarified. JOEBRO64 03:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article is pretty well written. Obviously you have a lot of experience with FAs by now that I didn't find much that needs fixing. TarkusABtalk/contrib 06:27, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@TarkusAB: Many thanks for the review! Responded to all points above JOEBRO64 03:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support promotion to FA TarkusABtalk/contrib 21:47, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support from David Fuchs[edit]

Look for first comments tomorrow. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:25, 5 February 2023 (UTC) Ah. This was my first Game Boy game, as I recall. Fun learning more about it.[reply]

  • " Although the gameplay is similar to Country's, Land features original level design and boss fights." We've already said the game condenses the gameplay of Country in the lead, and the use of "although" seems weird because it doesn't imply before that the games are carbon copies.
    • I've moved the bit about different level design and bosses to the "condenses" sentence; it now reads as It condenses the side-scrolling gameplay... with different level design and boss fights JOEBRO64 19:42, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The story begins after Cranky Kong challenges Donkey and Diddy to replicate Donkey Kong Country's success on 8-bit hardware " — might be helpful to clarify that the 8-bit hardware is the Game Boy. If you don't know anything about the handheld you're not really sure what that has to do with anything.
  • The organization of the second paragraph of gameplay seems a little weird to me. You mention traveling through four worlds, but the discussion of the different biomes comes before this, and the transition to "stuff the characters can do" feels more like it'd connect to discussion of the playable characters, also in the first paragraph.
  • This is a minor thing, but "It also established a tradition of Donkey Kong games being distributed in yellow cartridges" sounds weird. The games aren't being distributed in yellow boxes, it's the game cartridge itself that's yellow, so "being distributed on yellow cartridges" sounds more correct.
  • Don't see issues with media used, although the caption for File:Donkey Kong Land Screenshot.png could probably use more text to demonstrate its fair use rationale.
    • Done, let me know if what I've done works JOEBRO64 16:46, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • References: Don't have any issues with sources used. Spot-check forthcoming.

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 18:21, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@David Fuchs: thanks for taking the time to review! Responded above JOEBRO64 16:46, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi David Fuchs, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:38, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nintendo World Report gives me pause insofar as judging it a high-quality reliable source; the VG/S discussions have been scant to non-existent. Otherwise I don't have issues with sourcing used.
    • Spotchecked statements attributed to refs 1, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 12, 16, 19, 22, 24, 26, encapsulated refs in [d] and [f], 31, 33, 34, and 35.
    • Since the Hardcore gaming source only provides the kanji for the Japanese title, should probably adjust where the citation sits so it doesn't look like it supports the romanization.
    • Would be nice if there were timestamps or quotes for Ref 19 (the DF video.)

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 16:37, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@David Fuchs: done. I've gone ahead and removed NWR since it was only used for two sentences in the legacy section; I still think it'd probably be fine but figured it wouldn't hurt to lose it since its use was so small. JOEBRO64 17:57, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'm satisfied to support now. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs talk 19:01, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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