Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ashley Tisdale/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 10:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Ashley Tisdale[edit]

Ashley Tisdale (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Decodet (talk) 18:16, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because, after four years since the last nomination, a lot of hard working has been done in this article. I feel it finally meets the FA criteria and therefore deserves the promotion. It is well-written, with relevant information only and everything is properly referenced. I assume it is ready. If you don't support, please let me know what your issues are so I can work on them. Decodet (talk) 18:16, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ceranthor
General
  • The lead is a bit long for such a short article.
I may reduce it a little bit but I am not sure about what can I remove, for me there's only relevant information in there. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestions
  • "certified gold by..." and "for sales exceeding half a million copies" basically mean the same thing. Get rid of one or the other, probably the first. Having both makes sense in the body text.
done. Decodet (talk) 01:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the 2006 soundtrack became the top-selling album in the United States that year" - can probably be left out of the lead, which already mentions the soundtrack albums; Tisdale was not a main singer on most of the singles from this album.
done. Decodet (talk) 01:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • " the captain of a cheerleader team" - this much detail probably not needed in the lead of a short article (the character name is useful because people look at the lead wondering why they've heard of her).
done. Decodet (talk) 01:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It might need more drastic cuts or restructuring, not sure. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:09, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'm working on it! Decodet (talk) 01:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Looks much better! One extra thought - is "He Said She Said" the single of hers that has sold best overall? If so, it might be easier to just say that in the lead (or just as "her most successful single"), and relegate the details to the article body, because "her best charting solo single in the U.S." is not only longer, but, more importantly, seems to be trying to put across a lengthy series of qualifiers in order to make the statement true, which makes it very difficult to read to my somewhat worldwide-music-industry-ignorant brain. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:51, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It actually is! Thanks for the note, I'll rewrite that sentence. Decodet (talk) 21:11, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Another thought - what does the original source say, that the lead currently paraphrases as "among kids and tweens"? Tweens is a tolerably precise definition, but "kids" in such a context could variously mean only people younger than tweens, only people older than tweens, or all people between age 8-or-so and (potentially) age 25-or-so who don't fit into the "tweens" category. Either way, something is either wrong or confusing here. I can't seem to access the source. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:27, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The source actually uses those terms "kids and tweens". I'm confident they meant younger than tweens though. Perhaps we can remove the "kids" and keep only the "tweens"? Decodet (talk) 00:48, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Lead
  • The series was also nominated for eight Primetime Emmy Awards, having won two of them.[2] - winning, not having won
done. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • the intense captain of a cheerleader team. - What does "intense" mean here?
done. Removed that word to avoid confusion. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The series, however, had only one full season as it was cancelled by The CW in 2011 because of low ratings. - ran for only one season. Also, does ratings indicate viewers or critical reception?
done. It was about the viewers. Fixed it. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • she starred as Jody Sanders in Scary Movie 5, the fourth sequel to the 2000 film. - Why is this last part "the fourth..." necessary?
done. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Early life
  • to Lisa (née Morris) and Mike Tisdale, the manager of a construction company. - Do you know her mother's career?
Actually no. I've tried to find out what her career is but I couldn't find anything. Apparently she's a homestay. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first paragraph is very choppy. Some sentences should be connected together.
done. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • He sent her to numerous auditions for commercials, resulting in her placement in more than 100 national network TV ads as a kid. - As a kid is informal.
done. Replaced it with "child". Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tisdale toured for two years on Les Misérables[15] before landing a role in an international touring production of Annie[13] in Korea. - First of all, what role did she land? And if it was international, how was it in Korea? Based in Korea?
done. Removed the word "international". Nobody knows what role she portrayed in that production. Every single reliable source that I find about that says "a role". Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • During this time, she simultaneously worked as a Ford Model. - Is this a common term (Ford Model)? I've never heard of it.
done. Replaced with "as a model for Ford Model" to avoid confusion. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • For her role in Boston Public, she received a 2000 Young Artist Award nomination for "Best Guest Performance In a TV drama".[17] - What did she play?
done. Added the role she played. Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll stop here. I have to oppose because I am sorry to say I fear the article is 1. not fully comprehensive, omitting important details such as her specific roles and 2. more importantly the prose needs a lot of work. I'll be glad to post comments here as the FAC progresses, but I think a lot of time has elapsed without review so it is unlikely we will finish in time. However, I have high hopes for this article's improvement! :) ceranthor 22:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing, I've fixed everything you've said and I'd be happy if you please continue your review! :) Decodet (talk) 16:50, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
04-06
  • teenage candy-counter girl - What does this mean?
It means that the character is a candy seller. Is this sentence confusing? Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • She later won her first award at the UK Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards for "Best TV Actress", due to her performance as Fitzpatrick.[18][10] - Due to is awkward, and later is redundat. That bit at the end should be switched to the front. It should read... "For her performance... , she won ..." Also, when did she win this award?
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The soundtrack, in which Tisdale lent her vocals for several songs, - to which; which songs?
done. She sings in at least half of the album, isn't it redundant to list the songs she sings in? Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Due to the popularity earned by Tisdale through her performance in High School Musical, - Not a well-written sentence, awkward and forced
done. I tried to rewrite it, is it better? Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
2007–09
Solo music career and continued success
  • in a selective number of countries that did not include North America. - what does this even mean? Can you just list the countries then say but not North America?
done. I removed this sentence, I thought it was redundant to list two singles that were released in Germany and Austria only. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • with a three-song trilogy comprising music videos and a documentary about the creation of Headstrong. - comprising music videos?

Do you mean comprised of?

done. Yes, that's what it was meant. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • She lent vocals for several tracks in the film's soundtrack[12] - On, not in
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • viewers on its premiere night.[30] - during its premiere, not premiere night.
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also in 2007, Tisdale was given the voice role of Candace Flynn, the series' secondary antagonist, in Phineas and Ferb, which became television's most-watched animated series among kids and tweens,[6] - Surely there must be more information on how she got the part. I cannot believe this is comprehensive.
I've tried before looking for more details about Tisdale's casting in that particular role. However, I will try to do that again later and see if there is anything I could add to that. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tisdale's debut as an executive producer and also in a leading role, - and as an actress in a leading role
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • in which she played Mandy Gilbert, - ; she played ... - Get rid of the in which
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • captured 4.3 million total viewers - captured is not the right word
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • High School Musical 3 earned $42 million in its domestic opening weekend, - how much total?
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • which became the biggest opening for a musical film. - Is this still true? If not it should be clarified.
It still is per http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=musical.htm&sort=opengross&order=DESC&p=.htm Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • and Billboard claimed the album "doesn't give the singer room to comfortably let loose".[42] - This should be a separate sentence first of all, and claimed is not the correct word here
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
10-12
  • Tisdale's return into broadcast television occurred in 2010 - Tisdale returned to broadcast television in 2010
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • that reported Tisdale had signed on to co-star on her first major broadcast series role as Savannah Monroe, the peppy and fiercely intense captain of the Hellcats.[47] - Separate sentence
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The series had its script based on the book - The series based its script
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • She had vocal roles in several TV cartoons, during 2010, - why the commas around during 2010?
done. Removed them. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • desireble and high-priced escort.[55] - Typo
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • to create, develop and executive produce a series. - Just produce... not executive, even if that is the case. If you want, you could mention serve as executive producer. Also, where is the serial comma after develop? You've used it everywhere else in the article.
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
2013
  • based on critical reviews, in both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic.[68][69] - In?
  • s it received low scores, based on critical reviews, - Low scores based on critical reviews? Poorly written
done. Wasn't sure about what to do with that sentence, I hope it's better now. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • After four years since the release of her second studio album Guilty Pleasure in 2009, - Four years after ...
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Image
  • , that included a mall tour in the US with performances in fashion shows hosted at each.[10] - why the comma?
done. Removed it. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • she joined Got Milk? campaign.[73] - the Got Milk? campaign
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • and in 2013's - and in 2013
Personal life
  • In December, 2012, she began dating musician Christopher French since December 2012; - ???
done. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just snippets, too. This is not a fully detailed review. There are just so many issues with the prose still. I'm sorry. :( ceranthor 22:14, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I feel bad about all that; English is not my first language so it's challenging to work in this kind of article. However, I'm doing the best I can and I'm happy that you're here helping me out. Thanks. Decodet (talk) 23:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose There are bits of information missing here and there throughout the article. The article could also benefit from a thorough third-party copy-edit.

  • There is no mention of Valencia High School, to which Tisdale went. [2]
I can add that without a problem but I'm just wondering if that is that really relevant? Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and Mike Tisdale, the manager of a construction company and her elder sister, is also an actress" Sounds awkward. The sentence needs to be split.
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ""a little bit of both" of her parents' religions." What is her father's religion?
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She began her theatrical career by appearing in" What was her role?
I couldn't find anything about that. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At the age of twelve, Tisdale sang at the White House for President Bill Clinton." What was the occasion?
Same here. Every reliable source doesn't give much detail. That's everything we know. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the meaning of the quote under "2010–12: Return to broadcast television and producing"?
It says actually "...on why he cast Tisdale". I can remove that if it's irrelevant for the article. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Her involvement in Dimension Films' Scary Movie 5 was announced in June 2012, by The Weinstein Company" → "In June 2012, The Weinstein Company announced her involvement in Dimension Films' Scary Movie 5" Remove passive voice.
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "She played Jody, a late-'20s dancer, the leading role in the film, which also starred Lindsay Lohan and Charlie Sheen." → "Starring alongside Lindsay Lohan and Charlie Sheen, Tisdale portrayed Jody, the leading character of the film who is dancer in her late-20s."
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The film received an April 2013 release and grossed $15 million on its first weekend, making it the lowest-grossing opening weekend for a film in the franchise; it also became a critical failure." → "The film was released in April 2013 and grossed US$15 million on its first weekend, making it the lowest-grossing weekend for a Scary Movie film; it was a critical failure."
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "she is inspired" Was.
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In May 2013, TMZ reported that a man named Nicholas Fiore, who had sent more than 18,000 tweet messages to Tisdale's Twitter account dating back to since 2012, had shown up at her home in Los Angeles."
done. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he has threatened to shoot both her and her boyfriend," By the way, what was the man's reasoning for the threat?
done. Jealousy. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The references need to be standardized. For example, there are references that have the both publication and publisher names, while others lack both (FN 90 and FN 94).
done. Fixed not only those two but a couple more that missed either publication or publisher names. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At the moment I do not think the article is fit for the FA status. It lacks information and could be reworded to improve flow. --Sp33dyphil ©hatontributions 04:42, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review. I've solved your comments and I hope the article is better now. I'll try to reword some sentences later today. Decodet (talk) 17:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Don't include comma within date in lead caption
done. Decodet (talk) 00:43, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Signature_of_Ashley_Tisdale.svg: as it seems unlikely that the uploader is Tisdale, authorship, source and licensing needs to be clarified here
I thought it would be better if I just remove it. That image was uploaded three years ago so there is no way to track those informations. Decodet (talk) 00:43, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Maxim_May_2013_cover.jpg: the given purpose of use is inconsistent with the image's actual use in the article. The FUR in general needs work, as a stronger case is needed for the use of this non-free image. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:04, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That image has been removed. Thanks for your review! Decodet (talk) 00:43, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominated the image as orphaned for deletion (in 7 days). Please update the image summary, if you plan to use it for some other article. GermanJoe (talk) 13:06, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fiore

How is the Fiore person relevant to her career? Or her personal life? He sent her lots of tweets? She made various allegations about him? What else? TMZ is not a great source for this sort of thing, likewise similar publications. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 00:02, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This man stalked her and has threatened to kill both Tisdale and boyfriend - I don't know, I thought this was relevant to her personal life because it was a fact that received a lot of media coverage. Do you still think it's irrelevant to her personal life? If so, I may remove that paragraph without a problem. Decodet (talk) 00:52, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My opinion doesn't matter much. I do wonder, has it changed her career? Affected how she chose to perform? Anything significant? Or just a lot of fuss at the time? If reliable sources still talk about it as a major thing in her career then it's worth including... you have to look at how important it is to her career as a whole. Compare with U2. Lots of nuts. How important is each nut? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:01, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you have a point. It was really just a lot of fuss at the time, not anything major in her career. It's been removed. Decodet (talk) 01:14, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose based on source review.

  • What makes Celebrity Net Worth, Cliff.com, TV By The Numbers and The Futon Critic high quality reliable sources?
I never even knew why people added this Net Worth thing. I assumed it was a new Wikipedia standard so that's why I kept it - it's been removed now. TV by the Numbers is a reliable source actually. I've also replaced Futon Critic and Cliff.com for ABC and Los Angeles Times respectively. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am unconvinced that TV By The Numbers is a high quality reliable source. The site gives no information on the qualifications of the writer/publishers nor does it discuss editorial oversight and fact-checking. The Wikipedian Penguin 21:17, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Publisher notation is inconsistent for magazines: brackets or no brackets?
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Publisher notation is inconsistent for newspapers: brackets or no brackets?
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Italicization of websites is inconsistent.
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming that "iTunes Store" is the work, why is it not italicized while other website names are? A standard I've used in articles I've written is to only italicize the titles of books, magazines and newspapers. For references that are exclusively online, the names are unitalicized, as they would be in article prose. Choose a style, but be consistent. The Wikipedian Penguin 21:17, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some typos in the refs (eg. 41, ref 78, ref 81)
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Incorrect publishers (eg. AOL publishers The Huffington Post, Time Inc. publishers Entertainment Weekly)
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid "Inc", "Ltd" and "LLC" in publisher fields unless it is there to avoid confusion. (eg. Viacom International Inc. can be simply Viacom).
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilinking of works and publishers needs to be checked. Link only on first occurrence, all occurrences or no occurrences.
done. I hope I didn't miss anything. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 23: language?
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • In ref titles, double hyphens ("--") and hyphens used as dashes (eg. ref 76) should be replaced with en dashes preceded by nbsps.
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also to avoid in ref titles are ALL CAPS.
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article prose also needs copyediting. Examples:

  • "In her childhood" sounds iffy. I think it should be "During her childhood".
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Two years later, Tisdale began to cultivate an adult image and mainstream pop sound and released her second studio album Guilty Pleasure (2009)." —you say "two years later", so the "2009" notation is not needed.
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Disney Channel's three-time Emmy Award winner animated series Phineas & Ferb as Candace Flynn..."—"winner" should be "winning" and there should be a hyphen after "Award". "Series" is also used twice in this sentence.
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redundancy: "Tisdale has also pursued a career as a film and television producer, working [worked] as [the] executive producer on a number of films and television series including the ABC Family television film Picture This and the Bravo's 2012 unscripted series Miss Advised."
done. Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

After being open for this long and there being no supports, I am a little worried about this FAC. There are still issues throughout that need to be addressed. The Wikipedian Penguin 15:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've resolved the issues you've listed. If there are any more, I'd like if you address them so I can fix them. Thanks for your review! Decodet (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You are most welcome. Just a quick note: refrain from bold "done"s in FACs. This excessive bolding is distracting to reviewers and delegates. The Wikipedian Penguin 21:20, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment After six weeks here there is no consensus to promote this article and I will close it shorty. Please note that two weeks must elapse before renomination. Graham Colm (talk) 21:45, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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