Gee guys your a bit slow on the take up[edit]

what?, was there a change over of people in charge of surfing the net and deleting and /or manipulating anyone’s free speech and or thoughts???[edit]

Check out my mildly interesting news section[edit]

Also see a questions and answers in "Explain Away" below.

The Israeli Palestinian Conflict[edit]

Hey Samhook you think I live in a fantasy world then try this for size:

The Israeli Palestinian Conflict solved:

Any western individual that wants to be real with them selves cannot deny that a state such as Israel has the absolute right to exist just as all other states exist.

The parallels to any other conflict in which a country was conquered and land annexed is obvious England showed the same trend worldwide.

Also any western individual that believes that the Palestinian peoples are or do have parallels to say the Australian Aboriginals or other conquered people such as the American Indians would be sadly sadly mistaken.

This conflict is one that should be viewed much closer in western understanding terms to a fight between England and France.

And seeing the conflict in and at that point of view we begin to understand that for all the centuries of battles England is still and Island of the Coast of Europe and France is still a country in the south of Europe.

At some Point in the Future and I firmly believe this both sides will come to this kind of understanding because neither just like the English or the French really wishes the other wiped out or exterminated from the planet.

And with that in mind here is my strategic solution to the Palestinian and Israel conflict I’m welcoming any and all comments because I believe I’ll make many errors but the basic solution should be one that solves the problem for all sides:

First a Map of Israel and Palestine:

The argument:

Israel definitely does not want to give up any more land that it has now, and the Palestinians want a State and with a flag and full independence if you read this solution to the end you will see that both can be achieved almost politically also. The solution makes basic sense and all of the land pointers are there for this solution's existence.

Palestine Creation[edit]

Now first it requires the creation of a Palestinian State out of the land held in the west bank and the Gaza strip.

This is important because for this state to function it needs a Sea Port and a Land base this is achieved by the Gaza strip being joined to the West Bank and Jerusalem split east west Germany style with a large four or six lane raised freeway connecting the Gaza strip with the West bank, this should have it’s entry point at the Palestinian side of Jerusalem and be the sovereign ownership of the Palestine State.

It would not disturb the ongoing economy of the Israeli State as it would be elevated on pillars with free access and under passes. Also on the West bank side obviously the Palestinian State still has access to the Dead Sea also and all land is kept with the same borders but all Israeli Settlements are dismantled as are they in the Gaza Strip.

So there we have the Palestinian State if you are a supporter of Israel you have probably stopped reading well that’s a shame because there is a solution here.

Israel Compensation[edit]

Now obviously Israel would not want to cede the land to the Palestinians but remember we are in my fantasy world here so they some how do, but they need to be compensated for the land lost in the West Bank and Gaza strip. Were do we take it from well you might call me crazy but this happened a lot around the first and second world wars in Europe a little land shifting.

Also there will need to be economic concessions given based on the net economic land “value”

So here goes:

Israel is expanded in the south mostly on the Jordan side but also a small strip right down the Egyptian border also.

The west Strip it would start at Elat and wedge out almost 3/14 of the way to Ra’s An Naqb then extend into a straight line upwards then wedging inward at the bottom of the dead sea so that full access is still on the Jordanian side but the strip needs to be enough to cover in Square meters the land given to the Palestinian State from the West bank.

Also the strip on the Egyptian side would cover the land given in square meters to the Palestinian State in the Gaza Strip or more but would stop at the border line where the Gaza state started giving the Palestine a full border with Egypt.

Everybody still has Water and sea access.

See image 1.2

Jordan Compensation[edit]

Any readers from Jordan feeling pretty angry right now , as you would but lets see how your country can be compensated by the loss of your land to the east now 90% of Jordanians are Sunni Muslims, this would mean that it would be possible under an Iraqi Sunni / Shia Government to cede land to the value of the West bank from Iraq if it was politically and economically viable that is to say:

Well in the physical sense it would be easy to do the land would be extended along the Jordanian border to the Square meter value of the West bank.

But the Economics are a little more complicated for some of the land to the east has more net Value than that of the West which is primarily desert and semi desert:

Massive Russian, European and US Farm trade incentives and general trade incentives to Jordan to cede the land to the east for land to the west.

A construction deal to turn some of that arid semi desert land in the west into viable agricultural land.

General Economic incentives and Politics[edit]

There would also need to be more European trade Incentives for Israel to cede the west bank area but all could be arranged if the political will did exist.

Economic Incentives would come at the right time to an Iraqi government that might need the help after a US withdrawal.

This could be offered by Russia and Iran and the EU if they could come to an agreement to help prop up the Iraqi Government for the cessation of the Land in Jordan’s favour.

Also it would be a matter of Pride to both the Sunni and Shia Government to know that it was their good deed that enabled the end to hostilities in this age old conflict also it would put a new legitimacy to the Iraqi Government that it did not have previous.

Or Perhaps there would be much more viable land at the wedge at the Top of Saudi Arabia, perhaps Jordan could be compensated by a split between Iraq and Saudi Arabia, maybe the divide could be 70% Saudi 30% Iraqi with also Large economic incentives going to the Saudi’s from the EU and Russia in the form of new Technologies. It would not take a lot of US pressure and the Saudi government would agree to cede a small amount of land to Jordan, likewise Iraq.

The Political Situation is such that it is now possible that the Two countries that can give Jordan enough incentive to shift it's borders to compensate for a Palestinian Country are the Two countries that the US has a lot of influence in One it occupies and owns a puppet Government with Iran and the Other has a long long history with the US.

Of course to some this might sound a crazy idea but I have to tell those people that I think the idea of trying to kill each other down to the point of extinction is a little zany also, plus now with the new tension in the Mid East perhaps belligerents will decide they can ill afford another major war, that is both sides I mean.

I think the intelligentsia is leading that way.

SO a solution will HAVE to be Found…. and one that Compensates Israel and Palestine for land they fought and died for.

Jordan in turn gets a great deal in this solution and is the one that makes the biggest change but I’m sure between the EU Russia and the US Jordan could be given enough incentive and (I mean Trade incentive) to make that concession. If Jordan would agree then the whole deal works.

Saudi Arabia and Iraq only lose a very small piece of land in relation to the overall percentage of land mass, but get that back much more in New trade and incentives.

Everybody wins so everybody can now go and grow crops and build new homes on their new land and between the US Russia and the EU they would only have to give out a tiny % of their GDP for incentive purchases to Jordan perhaps they could stop putting money into the UN for all the good it does?

Mildly Interesting News from Moscow, especially the paragraph Death"[edit]

Anna Politkovskaya Samhook 02:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's a pretty sick and low blow Samhook what are you trying to say? I'd like to say I hope President Putin and the Russian Government do all thay can do to catch the murders, and bring them to justice.

Actually Samhook I'll take that back about that comment being sick and a low blow i don't want to take the moral high ground I said I’d be straight and I am being so, it's just not a relevant story, there are many murders all around the world everyday, journalists that spoke about the "oligarchs" don't have a particularly long life span in some cases... but it's all irrelevant if the implication was that the Government was some how involved I don't see the connection, or evidence or motive,

Samhook Weak desperate governments and people resort to this type of tactic.(as i spoke about in the last part of our discussion)

None of which the Russian government is. Criminals do this sort of thing. Do you think the Russian government fits the archetype of a typical criminal government?

I see it as a government of law with a good leader, you may not but it’s silly to think that they were involved in this sort of thing, it’s a smear campaign and it shows me how weak the opposition is.

It's the type of thing CNN or FOX news would just love, not really the thinking persons view though.

Russia — In a statement in Dresden, Germany that came three days after the murder, President Vladimir Putin promised:

"Whoever has committed this crime," Putin said, "and whatever their guiding motives, we should state that this is a horribly cruel crime. It must not remain unpunished, of course."[51] According to Putin, Politkovskaya's influence on Russian political life was ";very minor."[52] Politkovskaya was a critic of the authorities, Putin noted, and her influence should not be overestimated. "It was minimal," he concluded. "She was known among journalists and in human rights circles and in the West, but I repeat that she had no influence on political life. Her murder causes much more harm than her publications did. Whoever did it will be punished." Two hours later, at the session of the St. Petersburg Dialog, the subject arose again. "Those people who are hiding from Russian justice are willing to sacrifice anyone to create a wave of anti-Russian feeling," Putin said.[49]

I feel the same way.

Polonium 210, fresh from the reactor[edit]

Any thoughts on the murder of another Putin critic? It seems to me that either he ordered the hit or his KGB is out of control. How does it seem to you? Samhook 18:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As has now been proven there is no evidence for this claim what so ever, it is so silly to think that the Russian government goes around killing people in this manner, like I previously stated...look towards desperate people and/or governments to take this sort of criminal action.

[It is an elementary rule of logic that you can't prove a negative. You need to prove a positive that excludes the negative. In this case, you need to prove that some instrumentality other than Putin or his Gestapo carried out this murder of a critic. If you can prove that someone else did it, be my guest. Remember that whoever did it had access to Polonium-210. Of course it's just a bizarre coincidence that public critics of Putin tend to turn up murdered.]Samhook 03:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking of Criminals did you about the new Casino coin house law?

President Putin and team have passed a Law to ban Casino houses and/or other criminals by 2009, well actually they are designating them to some outpost that amounts to the middle of Siberia or the like.

What a man what a country!

)

Please Samhook, try to think outside the western media Box, Pr Putin and government rates continuing 70%+ support that's because he is a genius and one of the greatest men that have lived.

But not just that…believe it or not he cares about the Russian people.

Could you say your government cares about you? and/or is acting in your interest? Please ask yourself that question.

You said to me "How does it seem to you?"

To me Samhook this man stands out like a light in an otherwise darkening world.

A world where in 2008 all US and most AUST get micro chipped cards with our info on them.

A world where our governments talk a lot but do little, and they don't care about us.

A world where little men have big grand idea's about "one world government".

A world where you have to live under permanent debt to get a higher than standard education.

A world that will sell you out before look you in the eye.

I’m not a religious man so sorry if that sounded Christian but it's just how I see it.

Explain Away[edit]

Explain away. Samhook 17:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you :

"I wish you would consider the possibility that I may be quite as educated as you on this subkect, albeit I've come to different conclusions."

Sir I cannot, I don't believe you that cold.

(Putin discussion moved to bottom of page) - Samhook 00:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not as you seem to imply, being arrogant on this matter,(i'm sorry if i appear so) I have no formal training in history and as such do see that as an advantage,

but i would not say that i'm arrogant, but i will say I wish to take you the final steps from the darkness of this issue to the light as it is, but not the light of the "truth" just an even exchange of our common knowledge so that we both may know more of the subject, So in that case i rescind my earlier comments about "education" and wish to tell you that this has nothing to do with "Bonds" in the real sense of the word, but everything to do with Issuance and the Interest paid on it, the "Bond" is just the trick.... the word in which we will think the processes that is oh so very simple, complicated.

First off let me say I'm not going to argue the finer points of what an "Empire" is

I was not disagreeing with you on the definition of "empire" but as to whether England had am empire in any sense before the founding of the Bank of England.

if you say it is so, then let it be so, but A tally stick is by definition Currency, A universally accepted form of payment that was of high demand because is was good for the payment of Kings tax, therefore in all senses of the word, "a currency" to be traded for goods and services.

This is about Fraud, you as you have said, purchased some bonds, well... lets look at this transaction:

You gained currency by whatever means, usually a unit of work or labour and you purchased the bond with money.

you had interest paid back and you used the roads that were Purchased with the money... the end. All is right with the world?

No...

I'm uploading a picture:

Point 1. The Government Wishes to Raise money for a Giant Hospital In the Middle of an Island of the Coast of the USA Now there is no Road so a Bridge must be built etc etc.

The Government can not for whatever political Reason Raise the Taxes for this, so it does as it has done so many times before it Raises the money through the Central Bank. (now I’m going to purposely leave gaps in this story so that if you come to your own questions ask them) I will say this, all money is Issued from the Central Bank.

How does it do this?, well look at the picture it raises a Bond it just prints this from nothing.

Point 2 . The Bond Exists it is for (1 Billion dollars) the Central Bank "Purchases" this Bond, look at the picture the Bond is going to the Central Bank.

Now Samhook how did you pay for your bonds? did you expend a unit of your of your energy working for currency at your job?, did you take orders from someone else when you worked for that money?, did you steal it? no better still did you just go home and Print it out of your HP printer?

Well Sir The Central Bank payed for it's bond by creating the money from thin air, this NON-government organisation that has private stock and does not Pledge or claim to represent the Public's or citizen's interest in any shape or form, created money from a printing press or an electronic digit.

then paid for a 1 billion dollar bond.

Point 3 Look again at the picture , the bond is paid for that is the first Fraud, but wait between you and me Samhook what is the use of printing your own unit of wealth to be paid back with the same unit you printed quite frankly zero,

so we need to think of some way we can gain actual units of "energy" "wealth" "Real Wealth".

Enter Interest:

The Central Bank charges "interest" on that money it just created from nothing look at the Picture the money Bears interest, the Central Bank "Loaned" fake money and charges interest on the principal that interest Samhook is the following:

Your memories

Your Time

Your Energy

Your Will

Your life

Your Children’s Memories

Your Children’s Life

Your Children’s Time.

What i am saying is the Wealth that is paid back as interest comes in the form of Human labour, your direct taxes part of the way to pay this interest , but further on from that ALL money is created this way not just Gov spending. So that encompasses nearly a humans total energy.

Point 4 The money goes to the Gov the Gov spends it on the project(s) the money is paid to contractors and workers which they deposit, then the whole thing gets multiplied by ten through the commercial "sluts" repeating the process with the local deposits in their possession, all creating money from nothing with interest attached:

But That interest has to be paid back, With Real Wealth.

Now think of this...... If you accept that ALL money is created in this way in a system such as this, then you see that if one charges interest on the issuance of the whole money supply: ] 1. Becasue the interest is charged at the point of issuance.

2. Then there is no doubt, more debt than there is money.....

if you paid back the debt as it is issued you pay back ... well you can't because there is more debt than money ....

Our human energy pays the interest, more debt more interest...

now watch this.....>>>>>>>>> as I lift the darkness for you

As a Human Country expands it needs more money to facilitate the expanding economy the more money under this system means the more debt because the issuance of money is into debt, because the interest is charges at the issuance, the more the debt the more interest the more human energy is needed to facilitate the interest. Because that is where wealth comes from a service or a labour. a unit of energy.

so lets break that down...

The larger an economy becomes under this system the more human energy is drained from them and transferred to the "state", and the "Central Bank" which is the destination of the interest and as such the wealth.

The energy/wealth is not Transferred to each other the energy/wealth is drained and concentrated at the top.

now one can understand why their Children’s children may say , the news says our economy has grown at 5% and wealth has increased by 10% but Why won't I ever be able to afford a land to toil and house to put on it?

Well son, don't aspire to own land, own just the house let the "state" own the land ???????????

What is that Samhook? .

The new Order of the ages. it's better than that old "in your face" communism.

Samhook Response[edit]

• These are cruel people, beasts in human disguise.

About Chechen rebels during a press conference in The Hague while paying a state visit to the Netherlands (2 November, 2005)

^{Does this reference to Chechnya have anything to do with the question at hand? Samhook 23:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)}[reply]

Nothing to do with what is at hand great quote though don't you think?

I'm not as you seem to imply, being arrogant on this matter,(i'm sorry if i appear so) I have no formal training in history and as such do see that as an advantage

^{I'm going to try to respond to you here bit by bit as time permits, but I do wonder whether we have enough common ground for a discussion of our disagreements. If you really see your lack of historical background as an advantage, you seem to have adopted one of the three mottoes of the Party in 1984: "Igorance is strength." As I see it, this lack of yours makes you a ready victim to lying charlatans like Benjamin H. Freedman. You do not understand that his claims are contradicted by millions of documents in thousands of libraries. I would be glad to hear your view on this matter before proceeding further. Samhook 23:54, 4 September 2006 (UTC)}[reply]

please we have a lot of common ground here
Now here you provide the greatest abstract example of exactly what I’m talking about when I talk about "mass education"

You misrepresented my words not on purpose but because I believe you have had such education, I said "Formal Training in History" that is to say I was not Re-educated post WW2 like so many others.(include yourself)

"you seem to have adopted one of the three mottoes of the Party in 1984: "Ignorance is strength.""

Let me give you an example of the world that I witness through my eyes: your example was wasted because you misunderstood my words; A better example of that sort of opposite "newspeak" is calling someone who is Semitic and is anti-Zionist an "Anti-Semitic" a nonsense word.

Or better still how about the abstract, how about calling people "Anti-Semitic " because they oppose the use of cluster bombs?

Which is kind of funny in a really twisted way, because cluster bombs landing on those Semitic people in Lebanon is anti-Semitic very anti-Semitic!.

What about "Invading Iraq for Peace" that's a good one!, or maybe "they hate us because we are free" i like that one as well.

hey, hey no i have it ......... "The Patriot Act" how's that? hard to beat i know.

What's this all about? Have I suggested that anyone who opposes the use of cluster bombs is an antisemite? Crazy idea. But there is no reason why antisemites cannot oppose the use of cluster bombs, and so on. Anti-Semite is a dubious term, simply because the only accepted definition of "Semite" is a speaker of a Semitic language. This includes speakers of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic, but by now a minority of Jews. This is why I always use the spelling "antisemite." But let's replace it with a more honest term: Jew-hater. Jew-hating goes back to the Middle Ages, but let's start with the 20th century, when Russian Jew-haters produced the crude and shabby forgery known as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, still being circulated by Jew-haters today. In the 1920s, the Jew-hating Naxi party arose in Germany. When it came to power, it promptly deprived Jews of their German citizenship and banned them from all the professions. When it had conquered Poland, Ukraine and western Russia, it deported the western European Jews and murdered them in their millions--men, women, and children, simply because they were Jews. You think you can erase this history with word games? Samhook 02:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I never claimed you were connecting the opposition to Cluster Bombs with being an "antisemite" but someone did and it was a good example of nonsense speak, which was a response to your original example.

I would argue that Fraud, Usury and slavery hating goes back to the middle ages something that seems inextricably connected to a few amongst the people you might count into the "Jewish" group of people.

B H Freedman would argue that the feelings against Jewish people at that time was brought about by, the systematic destruction of Germany in the first World War, and the feelings that they were "sold out" by a group of people inside their nation, furthermore the more I study your famous "jew-hating" it seems to be less and less aimed at "Jews" and seems to be more and more aimed at Bankers, Central Bankers, "Money Changers" , coin house owners and other powerful people that tend to treat others in a disrespectful demeaning way.

To suggest the "Jew-hating" just exists in a vacuum in spite of all the evidence of which some has to be attributed to B H Freedman is just quite silly really, in fact it's stupid.

Like Freedman says: it's not that all of a sudden in 1919 or 1927 Germans decided that Jewish blood tasted better that coca-cola like he says it was all economic anything but Religion.

- - Good heavens. The history of Jew-hating in Europe--including Germany--goes back centuries. On most of the Crusades, the armies heading East paused to murder Jews in their masses along the way. In the 14th Century, Jews were blmed for causing the Black Death and murdered in their masses across Europe. If Freedman did not know this, he was unbelievably ignorant. If he knew it, he was unbelievably dishonest. Samhook 02:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This kind of Backwards thinking

Sorry. I'm not dyslexic. Samhook 02:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

leads a misguided individual to the idea that people just "hate" Jews it's the same sort of uneducated over-emotional thinking that leads one the idea that Hitler had a "magic" spell over the Germans and that's the reason he was so loved in his country from that period.

When the truth sits somewhere closer to the fact that he stood on a corner with a the Treaty of Versailles in one hand and a copy of the Balfour Declaration in the other. and that's about all he needed.

So spare me your key automatic triggered emotional response because The Japanese don't misuse it.... they have grounds to be a little paranoid also wouldn't you think considering one race tried to firebomb them out of existence and then nuked them into oblivion.

- Do you ever look at what you read before you send it out into cyberspace? "Nuked them into oblivion"? Japan, you mean? You mean it's gone? Where are Toyotas made, then?

- As to "automatic triggered emotional response," spare me this cheap psychologizing. If you don't want to argue ideas, just say so.

Samhook 02:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

B H freedman says the U.S mass media was controlled by Zionists/Jewish : broad statement hey?

Well as I noted that is certainly the case in the USA today you can look that up if you like, on wikipedia. And if the AP was created Primarily by a man named "Moses Yale Beach" 1846. so lets look at this from the top.

B H freedman said that all of the mass media, so lets say most of the Mass media was Jewish/Zionist controlled:

that is the Case now in the USA and the Associated Press was set up by Moses Yale Beach

Do you have any evidence whatever that Moses Yale Beach was Jewish? If you have none, and you are honest, you will withdraw this claim. Samhook 02:47, 13 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

in 1846 so that leads be to believe that there is more than circumstantial evidence to suggest that B H Freeman was correct.

His Speech about the Deal that was made, three words "The Balfour Declaration". but of course that is only scratching the surface.

so yes we can talk about Central Banks and The Fractional Reserve system anytime.

I don't believe B H Freedman was a liar, just a little angry sometimes i couldn't really blame him though.

Blocked by SoothingR[edit]

Why has my IP address, which is 202.7.166.163 Been blocked by the admin "SoothingR" he gave the reason "keeps 'apple chapeling'" What is "apple Chapeling"?

When you “put the Periods on the i” by blocking me what was the reasoning Tim?

Frankly put, I don't know what 'apple chapeling' is either. 'Apple chapel' seemed to be a phrase which was put into the Knox Grammar School article many times (Check these links if you need any evidence: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]). I blocked the IP address from which the vandal was editing, as this is a clear case of vandalism. If you ever bump in such a situation again, I suggest that you research a little before starting to pull out irrelevant issues whilst using that as a base to engage in a personal attack against me. Cheers.—♦♦ SʘʘTHING^(Я) 19:01, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Granted, fair comment sorry i've been made aware of the situation, i'll try to be more educated on the matter in the future.

Sorry.-Theblackbay 04:38, 1 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

License tagging for Image:Benjamin Freedman.gif[edit]

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Holocaust denial[edit]

Hi. I've removed your reference to deaths related to the sanctions against Iraq from Holocaust denial, as it appears to be original research. If you want to put it back in, you'll need to cite some reliable source asserting such a connection. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 19:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to the Benjamin H. Freedman discussion page[edit]

I've recently checked with the guidelines for disccussion pages, and it seems clear that our current discssion of our ethnicities is way off the grounds. I'm going to make one more public response to you and will then say no more on the topic and limit myself to precise suggestions on how your article might be made more accurate. As long as I have your attention: I have no doubt that Benjamin Harrison Freedman existed. I have considerable doubts about some of the texts attributed to him. I know that much of what he said is flatly false on the record.

Samhook 18:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On the discussion page for Freedman, you said:

or i could be reading too much into it, in that case no problems, I’ll tell you I’m not Jewish but you know what if tomorrow Israel made a statement and it went something like this:
"We have reviewed our Political Stance in the World and we have decide that at it's cause a large problem in the world seems to stem from Fractional Reserve Banking and the Bonds system in which money is Created from nothing an then interest is paid on that, we have review and found this system to be inequitable and unfair, so Therefore and henceforth we have renounced this system, and have decided to raise an army to liberate the world of this system which is in every country on earth, we will start by requesting counties change that system then we will go from there"
and i believed it was true, I’d sign up and join in one second flat. I'd start waving the Israeli Flag out front of my house and eat Kosher food.
that's how i feel about the corruption in the system, and i hope that the Jewish people see it too, because they are being used I believe.

There are two questions here I don't really understand. First of all, just what is really wrong with fractional reserves? I don't mean that I have not heard many complaints about the practice. One cannot have studied political extremism as long as I have without coming across many indictments of the practice. But what is wrong with the practice in practical terms? Since the modern era of banking began, the economies of the developed world have, over time, enjoyed continued expansion. There have been interruptions from the business cycle and wars, of course, but the world is very much richer now than it was in, say, 1890.

The other question is what this has to do with Israel. Do you see Israel as somehow especially responsible for world banking practices.

Samhook 21:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Another thought on the Freedman discussion page. As time permits, I'm going to go through it and remove such of my contributions as I now think are off topic (leaving placeholders as appropriate) and also re-arranging some of what I've said that is in topic but eccentrically formatted.

You might wish to look in as time permits and see whether you want to remove or shift anything of yours that my changes have left hanging in air.

Samhook 21:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Samhook

Obviously you wish to delete the quote of B H freedman's no?

Not in the least. I don't want to cemsor. I do want to counter lies, however. Btw, what is the quote [sic] you are talking about here? - Samhook 08:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should not it is directly related to the subject you made many a statement leading to the idea that B H Freedman was "Anti-Semitic" I showed you a quote that disagreed with this idea, so the statement must stay.

It is an important historical reference as to why he is not Anti-Semitic but that aside please do not go though and delete at will this important discussion everyone should have the right to read, you should not decide that these people do not have this right to read this discussion.

Sorry. Under Wikipedia rules I have the right to delete whatever I have posted, especially when I think I posted contrary to policies. This is not "at will" bu under the rules. Do you have a problem with that? Samhook 08:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

your questions:

just what is really wrong with fractional reserves?

very good but what i must state firstly to you is that you missed the question i said:

"Fractional Reserve Banking and the Bonds system in which money is Created from nothing an then interest is paid on that"

now I’m not sure why you left out the central banking issue? are you clear on the Bond system and you agree with me that it is the fundamental flaw and blot on modern human history?

No, I do not agree with you om this. To the contrary, I think that central banking--created in the last decade of the 17th Century in the Bank of England--is ome of the great achievements in moderm history. What is your evidence to the contrary? Samhook 08:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fractional Reserves , after money is issued from nothing by the federal reserve buy buying a bond that was issued from nothing by the government the "money" that is issue or borrowed (basically from the Fed) is then deposited into the many accounts in Commercial banks across the country, yes? well because of the "Magic of Fractional Reserve Banking" these account holders can now lend out money at a Ratio higher than the money that is on reserve, with me?

Money was issue from Nothing out of thin air that bears interest, then it gets deposited into commercial accounts to get loaned out at nearly 10 times the amount that those deposit accounts hold, now that also all bears interest.

Tell me what to think is the first problem you could see that may arise from this process?

If you said Cheese you where wrong if you said Inflation you were on the money you could have also said instability based on inflation.

but i would say instability created by inflation and the will of a few people at the top that create the issuance of the money and they can:

"..cause high prices, all the Federal Reserve Board will do will be to lower the rediscount rate..., producing an expansion of credit and a rising stock market; then when ... business men are adjusted to these conditions, it can check ... prosperity in mid career by arbitrarily raising the rate of interest." Charles August Lindbergh.

I ask once again: what are the practical results here? For example, was C.A> Limdbergh right?

And second, are you goimg to answer my query about the relevance of Israel here? I hope you will.

Samhook 08:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your remarks Blackbay. Makes me know somebody cares :) I was really shocked when I saw that Leidesdorf and Freedman lived on the same block in 1918, I wasn't expecting that at all. And then when I accidently stumbled on Freedman's death index entry filed under "Freeman". Now maybe we have an actual chance at getting his obit out of Garden City, NY. I already checked the New York Times, but no luck there.Wjhonson 17:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

First question[edit]

Yes I will that is Simple The reference to Israel was in context to the discussion we were having at that time nothing more the discussion was revolving around B H Freedman and his perceived "Anti-Semitic" tag. although it must be said that many Zionist seem to support the bond system, in the end though I care not whom supports or not, if you support such a system I believe you are 1. confused about the nature of the system 2. are involved in it therfore have no need to oppose it.

Are you saying that Israel is somehow more involved in central banking than, say, Germany? And are you really simply opposed to the issuance of bonds on principle? My involvemnt in bonds is limited and general. I own a modest stock of US savings bonds, on which the government has always paid the promised interest. I use various public faciities, e.g., highways and bridges that were funded at least in part by bonds. - Samhook 17:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Central Banking[edit]

It worries me that you think that way about the Bank of England I will agree that as such "central banking" in it's self is not at all a problem, what you will see as you are educated on the subject is that this bond system when relating to interest bearing issuance of currency supports nothing but the concentration of Wealth into a non-representative form of dictatorship of the elite ruling from the top down.

I wish you would consider the possibility that I may be quite as educated as you on this subkect, albeit I've come to different conclusions. - Samhook 17:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You see let me undertake the task of proving this, do not forget that The English Empire was Built on a Form of currency that was essentially a Stick of wood split in half. Called the Tally sticks

You don't need to "educate" me on the question of tallies. My graduate training was as a medieval historian. Tallies were not really currency but a proof of debt that could be traded precisely as bonds are now. Until this century the English/British money system was based on gold, supplemented by notes issued by the Bank of England. There was, by the way, never any such thing as the "English Empire." The development of an empire started when England and Scotland were united, first in 1603 by having the same monarch, and then by the Union of 1707 that created Great Britain and abolished the separate states of England and Scotland. - Samhook 17:55, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

what I’m trying to emphasis here is that the Bank of England was no great positive reform. And in fact the cause of all instability of the currency. you see The Bank of England has a little catching up to do in this sense The tally stick system was basically in place for 726 years. It was arguably the most successful and stable forms of currency in recorded history

Can I explain? Then i will give you a chance to say if you agree with this system it or not:

Response to your message on my user page[edit]

Hi Samhook

Obviously you wish to delete the quote of B H freedman's no? I think you should not it is directly related to the subject you made many a statement leading to the idea that B H Freedman was "Anti-Semitic" I showed you a quote that disagreed with this idea, so the statement must stay.