Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
If you're ready for the complete list of Wikipedia documentation, there's also Wikipedia:Topical index.
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, please be sure to sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes (~~~~) to produce your name and the current date, or three tildes (~~~) for just your name. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Ragib 2 July 2005 22:29 (UTC)
Thank you very much. Wikipedia is great place. --Reo On 4 July 2005 14:30 (UTC)
Hi Reo! Together, we're making great progress on that article, I think. Your recent additions have gone a long way towards making it less technical and easier to understand for a layperson. Keep adding information, and I'll keep organizing it! Fernando Rizo 3 July 2005 23:02 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your trust. :o)) I will try to support it further, but I am forced now to state here, that during this summer I will have very litle ocassions for any other cotributions. (I will be not in touch with Internet). So, I can only look forward for cooperation in future. Again - thanks.--Reo On 4 July 2005 14:30 (UTC)
Reo, it's a pity that you won't be making more contributions this summer, but I look forward to more collaborations with you in the future. I'm going to digest what you wrote on my talk page today, and I'll use the knowledge of that to further improve the BY-2 article. Cheers, Fernando Rizo 4 July 2005 20:12 (UTC)
Thank you, I wish you nice time. Cheers! --Reo On 5 July 2005 00:00 (UTC)
Reo, I hope you haven't left yet. Sorry it took me so long to get back to the BY-2 article, but I've done some work on its readability and I was hoping you could fact-check it for me to make sure I didn't write anything untrue in there. As always, I'm enjoying our collaboration. Fernando Rizo 8 July 2005 17:42 (UTC)
Reo, I'm going to have a good deal of free time this upcoming week because I just (coincidentally) finished a biology class that I was taking over the summer at my college. I'm going to tackle the Auxin article then. Hope to see you around in the next few days. Fernando RizoT/C 00:47, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your stub submission. You may wish to note that it is preferable to use a stub template from Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types instead of using simply {{stub}}, if you can.
Hey, I saw your picture in the firefly article. Are you SURE you identified it correctly? If you search for "Lampyris noctiluca" in google images, you get black glow worms that don't look all that much like the one on the picture. Are they in different instars or something?--TheAlphaWolf 22:33, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is not my picture, in fact that picture is absolutely unrelated to me. The only relation is that I liked that photo and placed it in my user page.
With litlle searching I've found thatde:Benutzer:Wofl should be adressed instead of me. He is the autor of that picture and of the IDeing of that insect. Have a good time.. ReoON | +++ 19:49, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, *cough* sorry :P You were the only user linked from the picture, and I assumed the author would have had it in their page. Thanks for telling me who the real author is! --TheAlphaWolf 02:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Reach out is a program aimed at allowing users to bring issues that they have had in Wikipedia to a listening, sympathetic and caring audience:
"No one can know how we feel if we do not say. We cannot expect to get understanding if we do not ask for it. No one will dispute that sometimes life's issues are too much for one person. It is fair to say that sometimes Wikipedia's problems fall under the same heading. This is a place where you can bring the bruises that can sometimes be got on this project for attention."
The Stress alertsprogram aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them.
Note from the editor
Welcome to this new format of the Esperanza Newsletter, which came about during the last Advisory Council meeting - we hope you like it! The major changes are that each month, right after the Council meeting, this will be sent out and will include two featured programs and a sum up of the meeting. Also, it will be signed by all of the Advisory Council members, not just Celestianpower. Have an Esperanzial end of March, everyone!
The Barnstar Brigade is a new program aimed at giving more very deserving yet unappreciated users barnstars. It will officially start on 2006-04-09, but signing up is encouraged before this date:
"Here in Wikipedia, there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go un-appreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go un-noticed. Sadly, these editors often leave the project. As Esperanzians, we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. A project the size of Wikipedia has thousands of editors, so there are plenty of people out there who deserve recognition, one just has to find them. The object of this program is not to flood editors with Barnstars, but to seek out people who deserve them, and make them feel appreciated."
The Stress alertsprogram aims at identifying users who are stressed, alerting the community of thier stress and works in tandem with the Stressbusters at trying to identify causes of stress and eliminating them.
Information
Welcome to the second issue of the new format Esperanza Newsletter - we hope you still like it! This week, it was delivered diligently by our new dogsbody. MiszaBot (run by Misza13): any execution complaints should go to him. Content comments should be directed at the Esperanza talkpage. Thanks!
The current process for accepting proposals for new programs has been deemed fine. All Advisory Council members and the Admin Gen are to endevour to be bold when viewing discussion. If they feel that consensus has been reached, they will act accordingly.
A plea from the editor...
The propsed programs page is terribly underused! Please leave any comments, good or bad, on the page, to help us determine the membership's thoughts on the ideas there.
Hi. it is a problem. I posted this here as well as in the german wiki. In German there is a possibility - I think- toname it in proper way, the have the word DOM, instead of Cathedral. But it seems to be a problem in English, see DOM. -jkb- 18:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, i just noticed (from the history) you tried to add a response to the archived "Highlight search box" thread. Just wanted to let you know, that it is being discussed at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Highlight_search_box now. Please come give feedback there. Much thanks :) --Quiddity 21:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Celestianpowerháblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service.
This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.
The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome!
Note from the editor
As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!
Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel.
A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect.
Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct.
Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop.
As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.
As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.
Well, good approach! I have to say... But why I do miss here the European affairs? Do they have no importance? They IMO have! I thinks so, that just a really huge proportion of Wikipedia contributors are from Europe (just the second batch after those from USA) and it is IMO really worthy to have the division for Europe events ... something like Current events in Europe. I would like to see it in the header even if it would be red link for some time. (I propose it would'nt be red for long time, I propose that people would take care about it quite quickly). ReoON | +++ 12:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Alternatively, you can create Portal:Current events/Europe and maintain the current events for Europe there. In fact, that would be ideal. However, if you do do that, it would be nice if you maintain some of the format from the main Portal:Current events page. If you need help with anything, you can always contact me or perhaps some of the other regular editors to the portal. Once there is some page set up, the link can most certainly be added. As for those other regional pages, I may have to do better when it comes to bringing their attention to the switch to portalspace. -- joturner 12:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for very quick reply. I would like to be involved in it, but as far as I understand my position in the reall world, I see I am really not the proper person for it .... becouse of the lack of time (I am working at research and now I am in fact almost really not able to find several hours monthly even for czech Wikipedia, where I was log time contributor (even persuaded to take my part in RfA there.. :o)) ). But I regret this, otherwise I would like to join you to work on it. Now I am in touch with Wikipedia usually only with this, that my browser opens on the (yours :o) page User:Joturner/Current Events Portal Redesign and those informations are the news from the world (I need to have some litle general knowlidge) and the Wikipedia background combined :o) (I was used to to be in touch with Wikipedia projekts). Sorry, well have good time and ... you are doing very good job. With regards ReoON | +++ 15:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you agree with the edits. There is probably a lot more in there too, but those are the ones that realy stood out. I might have a bash at copy editing more later. I have it on my watch list now so I will notice, and support, any other similar edits you make. Thanks for the compliment :) David D.(Talk) 18:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I entirely agree with you, that those deleted was the one most standing out. Generaly I would like maybe delete or at least enirely remake whole section Effects and before your edits I had the same opinion on section Location, ... now I am somewhat more neutral in that point :o). Well in fact Auxins are still in much bettter shape than for example cytokinins. And taken together there is still lot of work left to be made. So I became to be a little fatalistic, pre-defeated (or how to expess that feeling) or simply maybe a bit lazy to work on it, only in one person (as I´v got lot of work in my lab and my written english is simply still not as good as it should be..) So if you would like to make me a company, it would be possibly very encouraging for me. Have a good time ReoON | +++ 19:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to help out. It could be a great article. David D.(Talk) 20:02, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Reo on! Can you translate my name in what language you know please, and then post it Here. I would be very grateful if you do (if you know another language apart from English and the ones on my userpage please feel free to post it on) P.S. all th translations are in alpahbetical order so when you add one please put it in alpahbetical order according to the language. Thanks!!! Abdullah Geelah 15:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can you try to translate my name in the Limburgish language as well! please. Pass the message on that I'd people to translate my name and post it Here.Abdullah Geelah 16:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I really would like to :-). But I unfortunatelly do not know a single word in Limburgish. (See my babylon templates). I did my best with czech language and that is the only language where I can help you out. Good luck and good mood be with you! :) ReoON | +++ 17:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Esperanza To-Do List is a place where you may list any request, big or small, for assistance. If you need help with archiving your usertalk, for example, all you need to do is list it here and somebody will help you out. Likewise, if you need help with some area of editing on Wikipedia, list it here! Again, any matter, trivial or not, can be placed on this page. However, all matters listed on this page must not be of an argumentative nature. You do not need to be a member of Esperanza (or this program) to place or fulfill requests on this page. If you don't have any requests, consider coming by and fulfilling a few! This program has not been very active, but has lots of potential!
What's New?
In order to help proposed programs become specific enough to make into full-fledged programs, the In development section of the proposals page has been created. Proposals that are promising, but need to be organized in more detail are listed here. Please take a look at what is there, and help the proposals turn into programs.
To improve both the layout and text of the front page, in an attempt to clarify the image of Esperanza, the front page is going to have some redesigning take place. Please take your creative minds to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Front page redesign to brainstorm good ideas.
Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.
In order to make sure all users who join Esperanza are welcomed, a list of volunteers who are willing to welcome new Esperanzians is at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Members#Esperanza_welcomers. Please add yourself if you are interested; we want to make sure all new Esperanza members are welcomed!
The In development section of the proposals page has been created.
Proposals page: Some proposals have been moved to the aforementioned "In development" section, some have been left as a proposal, and others have been archived. For those proposals that were a good idea but didn't necessarily constitute a program, General Esperanzial Actions has been created.
Two small pieces of charter reform will be decided on in a straw poll at Wikipedia talk:Esperanza/Governance. One involves filling the position of any councillors who may leave, the other involves reforming the charter.
Until cooperation with the Kindness Campaign is better defined, it remains as a proposed program.
Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
Many thanks indeed for sorting the managers' table. BlueValour 21:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
;-) You are welcome. Have a nice time. ReoON | +++ 21:55, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Molecular and Cellular Biology Wikiproject Newsletter![edit]
We have a new newsletter!
As you've no doubt noticed, there's a new Molecular and Cellular Biology Wikiproject newsletter, which will be sent out about once a month to all WP:MCB members. This newsletter is designed to perform two equally important functions. Firstly (and obviously, perhaps) it will serve to inform the members of the MCB project of such things as important discussions, votes, and article improvement drives. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the periodic correspondance will hopefully encourage a greater level of participation from the MCB community by acting as a gentle reminder of many of the the interesting tasks that are awaiting completion. If you prefer to receive this newsletter in the form of a link, or not receive it at all, you can add your name at Wikipedia:WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
Have any pet MCB subjects that you think need attention? Have you been longing to be part of a team of like-minded editors working toward a common goal? If so, the MCB Article Improvement Drive is for you! On the first of every month a new article is selected by the MCB with the goal of promoting it to good article status. Make your nominations and cast your votes now, because the first article will be chosen on September 1!
In an effort to organize and motivate the MCB activities, it has recently been proposed that a member of the MCB project take the role of "director", who would be responsible for the administrative side of the MCB project, including but not limited to coordinating recruiting efforts, spamming the newsletter, and maintaining the Article Improvement Drive and MCB Portal. A special discussion/vote page has been created for this proposal, and the vote will run until 23:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC), unless the community decides otherwise.
Odds and ends: what else you got?
In an effort to raise our profile and possibly attract some new blood, a shiny new MCB project banner template has been created at {{Template:Wikiproject MCB}}. Please add it to the talk pages of all MCB-related articles.
If you wish to opt out of having the newsletter posted on your talk page in the future, you may add yourself to the opt out list Newsletter concept and layout blatantly "borrowed" from the Esperanza newsletter.
This month's WP:MCB Article Improvement Drive article[edit]
Here in Wikipedia there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go unappreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go unnoticed. As Esperanzians we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. This is where the Barnstar Brigade comes in. The object of this program is to seek out the people which deserve a Barnstar, and help them feel appreciated. With your help, we can recognize more dedicated editors!
What's New?
September elections are upon us! Anyone wishing to be a part of the Advisory Council may list themselves as a candidate from 18 September until 24 September, with the voting taking place from 25 September to 30 September. Those who wish to help with the election staff should also list themselves!
Appreciation Week, a program currently in development, now has its own subpage! Share your good ideas on how to make it awesome there!
The Esperanza front page has been redesigned! Many thanks to all who worked hard on it.
Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.
The September 2006 Council elections will open for nominations on 18 September 2006. The voting will run from 25 September 2006 until 30 September 2006. If you wish to be a candidate or a member of the elections staff, please list yourself!
The new Esperanza front page design has but put up - many thanks to all who worked on it!
TangoTango has written a script for a bot that will list new members of Esperanza, which will help those who welcome new Esperanzains greatly!
Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
This month's WP:MCB Article Improvement Drive article[edit]
One more vote for the coordinator of the Molecular and Cellular Biology Wikiproject[edit]
Since two of the three editors nominated for Coordinator of the MCB Wikiproject declined their nominations, one more vote has been posted: should the remaining nominee, ClockworkSoul, be named as the coordinator, or should nominations be reopened? Every opinion counts, so please vote! – ClockworkSoul 17:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Molecular and Cellular Biology Wikiproject Newsletter[edit]
When people visit the project, the very first thing that they see tends to be the project's main page, and with this in mind, the main page has been completely overhauled. To enhance readability the various "goals" sections have been merged, and a detailed "how you can help" section has been added. To increase accessibility for more established members, the links to any resources that were in the main body text have been moved onto the navigation bar on the right. Finally, the whole page has been nicely laid out and given a nice attractive look.
I'm proud to announce the addition of out newest feature: peer review! The MCB peer review feature aims serve as a stepping stone to improve articles to featured article status by allowing editors to request the opinions of other members about articles that they might not otherwise see or contribute to.
Project progress
The article worklist
We’ve had quite a bit of progress on the worklist article in the past month. Not only has the list itself nearly doubled in size from 143 to 365 entries, but an amazing three articles have been advanced to FA status, thanks in great part to the efforts of our very own TimVickers! Remember, the state of the worklist is the closest thing we have to quantifying the progress of the project, so if you get the chance, please take a look at the list, pick a favorite article, and improve it!
Collaboration of the Month
Last month's Collaboration of the Month, cell nucleus, was a terrific success! In one month, the article went from a dismal stub to an A-class article. Many thanks to all of the collaborators who contributed, especially ShaiM, who took on the greatest part of the burden. This month's Collaboration of the Month, adenosine triphosphate, isn't getting nearly the attention of its predecessor, so if you can, please lend a hand!
Finally...
The project has a new coordinator, ClockworkSoul! The role - my role - of coordinator will be to harmonize the project's common efforts, in part by organizing the various tasks required to make the project run as smoothly and completely as possible. Many thanks to those who supported me and those participated in the selection process.
If you wish to opt out of having the newsletter posted on your talk page in the future, you may add yourself to the opt out list Newsletter concept and layout blatantly "borrowed" from the Esperanza newsletter.
Awhile ago, you had posted on Talk:Cell nucleus that you might be able to get an image of a cell nucleus to better illustrate the article. Were you able to take a picture and upload it? IMO that's pretty much the only thing the article is definitely missing at this point. Thanks! Opabinia regalis 02:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Admin Coaching needs coaches!!! If you are an administrator, or even a generally experienced user, do consider signing up to be a coach.
Admin Coaching, now being coordinated by HighwayCello, is a program for people who want help learning some of the more subtle aspects of Wikipedia policy and culture. People are matched with experienced users who are willing to offer coaching. The program is designed for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.
What's New?
The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one!
A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts.
Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.
The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived.
There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia.
The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested!
In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias.
Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello.
Although having the newsletter appear on everyone's userpage is desired, this may not be ideal for everyone. If, in the future, you wish to receive a link to the newsletter, rather than the newsletter itself, you may add yourself to Wikipedia:Esperanza/Newsletter/Opt Out List.
You asked, I s'pose, so yes, just the right place, and that was a perfect report. :) Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Luna Santin 20:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is nice to read! Thanks a lot for your interest :), from now I will know. ReoON | +++ 20:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And Luna just got the block in before me for that IP, and I too wanted to commend you on an excellent report :D. Martinp23 20:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hey there, Reo, good to see your name again. I'm just around a little bit these days. I've got plenty of real-life stuff to do, but working around here is a stress reliever for me, somehow. A Traintake the 15:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
:) Nice! That is the way, how it is suppossed to be! Wish you good time ReoON | +++ 22:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
71.250.218.196 is still blanking wikipedia pages despite warnings from yourself and other admins.
Can anything be done? Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.202.55.132 (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]
Thank you for the notice, I will have a look. ReoON | +++ 21:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
P.S: I am not (and I don't to be for it) an admin :)
I prepared this:
*{{IPvandal|71.250.218.196}} - Vandalises repeatedly within week, repeatedly obtaining test's. While it is from proxy let is more then schoolblock. There are not positive edits from other users at all. {~~~~
Hi Reo On -- thanks for uncatting that. I was a bit aggressive in diffusing! Please fix any other over-diffusions you see. Best --lquilter 02:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
:) OK, that is it and I see that you see it now... that important topics should remain stil in the main categories. I may have a look in the others, nevertheless I do not feel any strong need, as I do trust in your understanding now. Have a good time. ReoON | +++ 02:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This month's MCB Collaboration of the Month article is Peripheral membrane protein![edit]
Hi Reo On. You posted a question some time ago at meta:Help_talk:Printable, asking how to make wikilinks visible (as links) on the printable version of pages as well. You can edit (or create) your monobook.css (for Wikipedia Czech), or your monobook.css (for Wikipedia English), and add: a {text-decoration:underline !important}
...assuming you use the default Monobook skin. If you're willing to live with it, this will underline all wikilinks on the non-printable version of pages, but also on the printable versions. Hope this helps! —XhantarTalk
This is great. Thank you really very much. It helps a lot. I did'nt expect any solution. This I can do. Thanks again ReoON | +++ 22:08, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I saw you had voted for T-DNA as MCB collaboration of the month back in 2006. I started an article in place of the redirect, so just wanted to let you know in case you want to get involved. Thanks! - tameeria (talk) 18:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thank You, I see, that You did really good job :). I do not know whether I ever will find again enaugh time to reasonably contribute to Wikipedia in future, but I will keep the T-DNA in my watchlist :). Have a nice time. ReoON | +++ 17:02, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
thanks for contacting me regarding your trouble with the redirection of IAA to the Frankfurt motor show page. I think that we both agree that it is good practice that in case of abbreviations the page should directly go to that one particular article of the most common understanding. At the start of that article should be a lead to find other meanings on a disambiguation page. For example, the page USA directly goes to the article of the United States and gives various leads to other meanings by stating links to disambiguation pages.
Exactly that is the case with the IAA leading to the Frankfurt motor show page as well. So, we hopefully just disagree on whether or not the Frankfurt motor show should be that particular page that shows up for the IAA abbreviation.
Well, the Frankfurt motor show is the world’s largest motor show. To the average reader that is most likely to be of much more relevance than the substance Indole acetic acid, although the later is surely of high importance in chemistry and biology. As you used quantitative arguments as well, please take into account that the International Automobil-Aussstellung has different spelling variants, which must be taken into account as well. If you would just take the hyphen and compound variants in as well, I did come up with more than 800,000 hits in Google for these terms. Compared to the 215,000 hits for Indole acetic acid, that is almost 4 times more, and I didn't even systematically include all permutations here.
International Automobil Ausstellung
207000
International Automobil-Ausstellung
32100
International Automobilausstellung
16300
Internationale Automobil Ausstellung
309000
Internationale Automobil-Ausstellung
80300
Internationale Automobilausstellung
16500
International Automobile Ausstellung
142000
International Automobile-Ausstellung
443
Total
803643
indole acetic acid
215000
So, in total, I really think it's fair to keep the redirection of IAA to the Frankfurt motor show – and to keep the hint to the other meanings of IAA in the top of that article to easily allow readers interested in other meanings of that abbreviation to follow on.
Although I listed this at WP:RM as a "potentially controversial" request, an admin has already made the requested move! So that's sorted. PamD (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, thank You both for taking care about the isue. I see the solution fit.
(@Michael - as you wrote on what we would agree - we definitely would agree :), thank you for your appoach and civil tone :). Only a note: indole acetic acid has also many hyphenated versions, most importantly Indole-3-acetic acid (over 400 000 hits) or Indolyl-acetic acid .. but that was not of my concern, I didn't want to show that this compounds has more hits than the motoshow, but that the famous motoshow has no substancial lead to be considered the primery use of IAA abbreviation and espetially not in english-speaking environment)
Have a good time both of you :). ReoON | +++ 21:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I see you're transcluding your signature from a page in your userpage. Transcluding signatures are forbidden by WP:SIG because they are a target for vandals, they are a drain on server resources and because they are often used to circumvent the character limit in your preferences. Thus, I would ask you to put the code for your signature into the box in your preferences and alter it to fit if need be. Once you have, I will protect the page from which your signature is transcluded so it can't be vandalised. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:18, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. You are right, the rule is clear and I see the reasons sound. I did change the subscription in the preferences. The protection might had been benefitial even before, I didn't change the content of the sig subpage for years, there was no reason to keep changing it.
Well it is bit embarrassing, that I didn't comply with SIG, but it's probably due the fact, I am rather old-timer here, I was more active in the past and it wasn't of such concern then. I didn't like to put long line of characters in every talk, it messed the source code, so I invented this shorter way for the subs for myself. I should have cease it long time ago. So now, its over and it might be good, if some robot would replace my old teplate-like signs with the new markup-one. I had cut down unnecessary links and shortened the signature. Even this might be an improvement. I hope, You might even like it more too :). I am just curious, how cluttering it will be, how long the markup will appear. I will see it just now.
With the IAR - thank You for the reply. I feel that any other response there (AfD), would be off-topic and not helpful for the decission there, but it seems to me that I do understand the meaning generally the same way You understand it. There is difference is in something else for sure, (in the beneficialness in this particular case -see bellow), but some outlook on IAR philosophy might differ little too? Not sure.
In my words: If IAR is applied it must be such a way that it will not be just plain excuse for not applying the corresponding rule, guide. The criterion IMHO is, that not applying the (ignored) rule must help to improve encyclopedia in that particular case. But that is of course a trap, everyone could just claim so. Even in a case of untainted good faith it is just highly subjective position - the claim that to not follow particular rule would be beneficiary. That 1) makes from IAR something, what should be normally avoided. And if 2) applied, the proponent is really expected to defend the necessity/beneficity of ignoring the rule in that case, expected to describe the benefits of that approach for building an encyclopedic content and expected that he will gain a consensus from others - that it really is fitting for that particular case, that it is in the end the best way to preserve or build encyclopedia. Well according to the COMMON sense it is worded like: "cite Wikipedia:Ignore all rules and explain why doing so will improve Wikipedia in that instance" The more the proponent is going against the spirit of the rule, and against the original meaning of it, the less likely such an action may probably be beneficiary and less likely is he to gain consensus.
Looking at the wording of IAR, it is just short and it's meaning is not that narrowed. As such, IAR is kind of subject of COMMONSENSE in its own right. As such, it is well inside limits to say it's for special cases that aren't accounted for by the rules as written, and well I do think it even is matter of oral tradition for usage of IAR this way too .... but it is not entirely restricted to that meaning. The pure wording of IAR is just placing emphasis on what is good for encyclopedia alone.Even when I had reread all the other essays on IAR, it does not restrict it in this way.
Where I differ, is the point what I thought, is the good step for the encyclopedia and project. And at the same time I did not think that NOTNEWS was written with very similar circumstances in mind. And that is the basis of the difference. With all the respect, I do differ here. I simply do not see state visit of such magnitude as trivial or routine news. For me the visit was on the edge of notability right at that moment already. And I saw it good to wait how it will develop and judge it accordingly. (I didn't know about BREAKING or DEADLINE but I was working just in the meaning of it, so appealing just to commonsense and IAR) I wouldn't assume this stance without seeing this to be bit special case, clearly not one of the circumstances in the mind (notnews). For I do not think, that there is more of such state visits in the world of such importance than few in decade (its not like any state visit may be compared), seeing reports on it everywhere here (just like those translated here:[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15]) just support it. That was my underlying view. But anyway, there was no one else to think the same way on the AfD page, and thats clearly the limit of it. I was clearly far from persuading anyone about the benefit of IAR (or anything else). I can not argue, and I do not, on the IAR in this particular case here. The application of IAR require that the particular IAR application would help Wikipedia and if I didn't persuade anyone about it, then it's over. But I do not think, that my rationale on understanding IAR generally was that wrong. Would You share some thought on it?
Well so, I hope I didn't wear You down. Terribly and unexpectedly verbose. I Wish You nice day. --Reo+ 02:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wow! That's a very long response! On the signature, it's not a major issue, but if anybody were to replace its content with "fuck Wikipedia" or some other vandalism, that vandalism would affect every page you've ever used that signature on as well as putting a burden on the job queue system (which could mean that the vandalism stays there for hours, even if it's reverted in seconds).
As to IAR, just about everyone you'll ever discuss it with will have a different interpretation, but that's part of the beauty of it. It's OK even if nobody else agrees with your interpretation. We're all entitled to our opinions. Personally, I believe that Obama's trip to India falls squarely into the category of routine non-events for which NOTNEWS was written. IAR aside, the consensus is heading in the direction of deletion because nobody has yet come up with a reason why this is more notable than any other routine state visit apart from the classic "everything Obama does is notable", which makes me want to burn it with fire. To give another example, the British PM, half his cabinet and a delegation of business leaders are currently in China for pretty much the same purpose as Obama is in India but, AFAIK, nobody has written an article on it because it's nothing out of the ordinary. Heads of state/government visit other countries to keep up foreign relations. It's their job. So for it to be notable, it would have to be something very much out of the ordinary and a HoS doing business with a major trading partner at a time when Western economies are struggling just isn't in my opinion and that of the majority of participants and nobody has provided anything to the contrary.
Thank you for your message about the correction in the "passive transport" page.
I'm sorry to have upset you so much, I do not quite understand how the editing process works on Wikipedia and as you have correctly noticed all I did was trying to mend what was obviously an act of vandalism by someone else. I did think that some of the information was still missing even after I deleted the offending material. I hope you've managed to repair it.
All the best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.219.106 (talk) 14:25, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi -- just to confirm what you ask about in the santorum discussion -- the effect of SlimVirgin's proposal would indeed be to delete the current article, with no redirect using the current title. A small portion of the existing text would be added to a different article, but the current one would in effect be deleted, with no redirect. cheers, Nomoskedasticity (talk) 13:59, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank You for the note.
I believe, that this is also matter of debate. As I know the debate on the wiki, the outcome might be slightly changed, just acording the prevailing consenssus in the discusion. So to point out, that I disagree with the deleting the redirect is just the first step. I wonder if some other commentator will notice and put it further.
But I basically believe, that the phenomenon should not have this particlular title, I can basically see that this phenomenon happened and is more or less noteworthy. To merge it in the thereinmentioned article seems just fine, but I might even agree on this original article, - under the condition, that the title would be more preciselly descriptive in regards the phenomenon. Well, is the word Santorum_(neologism) really the right title for this? I tried google out at least one instance where anyone would use it in it's new meaning. Some (offending) images for instance or anything in the talk of LGBTs etc..
What do I mean by this? Just that the word itself is absolutelly not noteworthy et all, it is not used and even if it would the word itself would belong to the wictionary not to encyclopedia. This would be not encyclopedic content et all. What makes it noteworthy is the relationship between the new word with it's intended meaning with the personality of the said senator and all the story around him and Savage. Wikipedia should not create virtual reality, it should reflect and mirror te reality as it exists. The fact of word being created is true and the publicity of the fact is true too. But the word itself has no importance per se, so why would be Wikipedia just the wehicle to promote it's existence beyond the reality? Already now, the google links show of, that Wikipedia creates it quite a bit.
So in my opinion, redirect should not be deleted, but if this scenario is to happen, I see it less encyclopedic harm than the status quo.--Reo+ 15:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I love the stylesheet you have on your Talk page. Honestly, as I say in the explanation below my comments on the Talk page, it wasn't a personal attack, but trying to demonstrate the negativity of the words we're discussing. I don't think Discussion is being killed, we have a LOT of editors who are trucking along with comments and input, but I don't want people to fool themselves by thinking this term is not offensive and negative. We have a responsibility to do our best on an article like the Santorum one, we affect real lives here, not like the article about Twinkies where no one gets hurt, we can potentially do incredible damage. We're not simply talking about one man's life anymore, but his children and anyone else who happens to have the same last name. The way we frame the article here at Wikipedia has a lot to do with how this is perceived in the world. People turn to Wikipedia for reliable information and look at Wikipedia as a reliable source itself. Simply playing fast and loose and without regard for how our actions work in the larger society is irresponsible and reckless. Again, its not a personal attack, just working to help others understand this more deeply. -- Avanu (talk)
Thank You!
I know, I know for sure. Really. But that is just the purpose of the POINT, that you should not demonstrate the bad implications of something by doing it. In fact you were not uncivil in your intentions, but in Czech Wikipedia You might got block just for cs:wp:NEKIT alone - that is wp:POINT here, that is for disruption of Wikipedia.
Doesn't matter :) right. It seems that ⌘macwhiz is not ofended and discussion is moving forward. :)
By the way, in the context he did made the comment, he was just making things stright. That the santorum was not codyfied for the slang there, but it was rather impersonification of Santorum to get the block... that is irrespective of whether santorum now got or did not get horrible meaning or irrespective of ⌘macwhiz's stance, that was just clarification whether argument of wnt might aply there.
Just me, I am not sure how to folow to respond to Gaccur now, because, there is so much of the text in between now, and it feels as if the discussion I had with him, was just diverted out. I can not just easily start it over and at the same time I feel the arguments of him were not right, but as long as I do not respond so it looks like it is just right and dead. I took quite an effort to write my arguments there above and I still think it is right, now it looks like wasted..--Reo+ 09:07, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Awarded for debating a difficult and divisive topic with intelligence, class, and civility, and being part of the solution, rather than the problem. JN466 21:34, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am very proud to get this one! Big thanks from --Reo+ 11:34, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
