User talk:Nuvolet/Archive 1

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Hello, JaumeR! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! Luizdl (talk) 03:46, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
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LSU

Bones Jaume, he canviat la pronunciació que has afegit de la Seu d'Urgell a la variant occidental. Saluts!--Vilar 22:17, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Moltes gràcies Vilar. No m'havia adonat, a la Seu es parla l'occidental :D
Aleshores penses que deuria ser com aquest exemple, on s'hi explica la pronúncia estàndard de Catalunya (català oriental) i la local (català occidental) quan cal.
Per què utilitzes els accents? Els accents sobre les vocals s'utilitzen en la nostra ortografia catalana. A l'IPA però, s'utilitza l'apòstrof davant la síl·laba que tingui/tinga més intensitat per indicar-hi la qualitat d'accent tònic (també anomenat prosòdic, o d'intensitat). Aquí no cal l'ús de cap accent perquè existeixen els signes /ɛ/ i /ɔ/, pronunciats d'una manera diferent a /e/ i /o/.
D'altra banda, saps si Puigcerdà es pronuncia [pujsəɾˈða] localment? Oriental estàndard [putʃsəɾˈða] i occidental estàndard [putʃseɾˈða]. La paraula puig pot ser pronunciada dialectalment [puj]. Com aquesta, hi han moltes més variacions locals en la pronúncia d'alguns noms dels indrets dels Països Catalans.
Saps també si a Lleida mots com cafè/café, francès/francés, conèixer/conéixer, etc. s'escriuen com a la norma valenciana? JaumeR (talk) 23:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
No havia vist que havies contestat, jeje. Em sembla bé la forma en que ho fas, primer estàndar i després local.
Lo dels accents, no ho se no hi entenc gaire i ho vaig treure tal i com ho posa l'IEC, que no se si ho fa com l'IPA.
Segons l'IEC Puigcerdà és puјsəɾðá. El diccionari català-valencià-balear està força bé http://dcvb.iecat.net/ apareixen la majoria de paraules com es pronuncien i alguns toponims i en les diferents variants, a vegades només or. occ. i altres afegeixen distincions locals.
A Lleida depen d'on, suposo que a la majoria de llocs utilitzen estàndar però al col·legi ens deixaven fer excepcions com les que senyales. A la wikipedia en català crec que hi ha algun lloc on hi ha un llistat intern de la wikipedia on s'assenyala algunes paraules on es pot posar l'accent tancat per a textos redactats en occidental.
Per cert, al DCVB no he trobat com es pronuncia Andorra en or. i oc. Si ho poses tingués en compte que en occidental pronunciem Andorra amb la o oberta, mentre que els orientals crec que tancada. Els anuncis de televisió em fan gràcia perquè la veu en off parla en oriental però li fan pronunciar Andorra com ho fan localment i queda molt forçat XD
Salutacions!--Vilar 09:37, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Relleu (English)

Hi Jaume, thank you for the interest you have shown in the Wikipedia page I wrote about Relleu, the village in which I have lived for more than 10 years. When my wife and I originally came here, Valencian was widely used by the locals, but more and more of these people have moved closer to the coast for work etc. There were few ex-pats and we all tended to speak Castilian. Unfortunately, the ex-pats who have moved here recently have tended to speak only English and my intent in writing this page, was to try and interest them in the village, the people, languages and traditions.

We seem to have arrived at what Wikipedia call “revert warring”, they will not tolerate the instability of the Relleu article for long, so, I hope we can come to some agreement on a format that suits us both.

Instead of choosing one language over another I have used both separated by a /. I have left both Valencian and Spanish in the section for official languages in the infobox and used Valencian elsewhere. (I am not anti-Valencian or anti-anything, I just tried to keep the article simple).

I have removed the link to Languages of the European Union as it seemed to bother you. I have, however, left the word “fiesta” as it is now considered an English word. The English refer to Spanish royalty by their given names i.e.”King Juan Carlos not King John Charles” so these are not translated.

Would you please read the article and see if it seems OK to you. If not, could you please let me know why and we could try to adjust it so that we are both happy with it. Billandsally (talk) 16:17, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Page moves

Hi JaumeR - could I ask you to be more careful about moving pages in future? If you want to move an established page, you have to bring that up on the talk page first. As for Álava, we had a long debate last year and decided on Álava as the consensus name (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basque), so I've asked an admin to move it back. I appreciate what you're doing but I urge caution! Akerbeltz (talk) 10:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please. I'm also having to revert quite a few cut&paste moves you've made. — kwami (talk) 11:44, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Sorry i apologise. Kwami, there is not a debate about San Vicente del Raspeig should be San Vicente del Raspeig or San Vicente del Raspeig/Sant Vicent del Raspaig, or is there? IMO I haven't done that many mistakes on my corrections: Fageca is not Facheca, Bossòst is not Bosost, etc. I clearly missed few consensuses; like Villarreal → Vila-real, Jalón → Xaló, Álava → Álava-Araba and San Sebastián → Donostia-San Sebastián. I don't think i've made THAT MUCH unnecessary work for you admin, hehe.
(Answered on my talk page. Moves can always be undone--the only work is figuring out which should be reverted and which shouldn't: it's not my topic, so I don't know. The real problem are the cut&paste moves: that can get to be a real pain in the ass, and a lot of work. Please don't ever do that—ask someone like me if you need help moving a page. — kwami (talk) 22:43, 18 February 2011 (UTC))

BTW, when I reverted your cut & paste moves, I also reverted any work you may have done to those articles after the move, so you may want to review them and see if there's any work you want to salvage. (For example, everything you did at Xaló. You can just redo it, or if you prefer, I can merge the page histories. I only do that by default when there are substantial edits by more than just the mover; otherwise I normally just notify the mover their work has been lost. But I'll be happy to do a merge if you like, just tell me which articles.) — kwami (talk) 00:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Oops, thanks for letting me know, I am going to have a look there. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 02:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Requested moves

Speedy deletion nomination of Latin-to-Catalan sound changes

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A tag has been placed on Latin-to-Catalan sound changes requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) (Shout!) 20:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Removing Speedy at Latin-to-Catalan sound changes

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but you removed a speedy deletion tag from Latin-to-Catalan sound changes, a page you have created yourself. If you do not believe the page should be deleted, you can place a {{hangon}} tag on the page, under the existing speedy deletion tag (please do not remove the speedy deletion tag), and make your case on the page's talk page. Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. Thank you. - SDPatrolBot (talk) 20:46, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

It's about Belchman

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi] 03:04, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Nagyon köszönöm

Köszönöm!

Köszönöm a kedvességét.
Köszönjük, hogy az ember vagy:
kedves és figyelmes,
érzékeny és figyelmes,
A nagyvonalú és figyelmes adakozót.
Ön önzetlen mindig,
üzembe mások előtt magát,
éreztem magam különleges és fontos.
Ez egy kiváltság és öröm, hogy ismerlek.

Ön olyan személy,
aki megkönnyíti az életet és a jobb
mindenki körülötted.
Ön folyamatosan jár
Az előzékenység
és kedvesség
felderül minden nap.
Mit tettél velem
felvillan emlékezetemben,
frissítő kellemes érzéseket
minden alkalommal,
amikor belegondolok.
Hálás vagyok, hogy,
és én köszönöm.

—J.Z., egy magyar barátja

_____________

Valencià: Jrsaborit

Benvolgut Jaume:

Sóc Josep Saborit. No sé exactament com fer-vos arribar un missatge i ho faré ací. He intentat ampliar la secció sobre fonètica valenciana que vós m'heu esborrat en diverses ocasions. M'agradaria saber amb quina autoritat es desfan contribucions com la meua. Sóc filòleg, especialista en fonètica i dialectologia catalana. Tinc dos treballs publicats i he colaborat amb Wikipedia en diverses ocasions. Accions com la seua són les que fan que moltes persones perdem el desig de contri buir a millorar la informació de Wikipedia. Rebeu una salutació coral de J. S.

Jrsaborit (talk) 22:39, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Disculpeu-me Josep, entenc que vós podeu ser filòleg o tindre qualsevol grau universitari, no obstant això aquesta mena de contribucions que heu fet han d'anar acompanyades amb referències científiques acreditades, és per això que he desfet les vostres contribucions a la pàgina del valencià.
  • Primer, no hi ha cap font (almenys que jo conega) que detalle correcta i exhaustivament l'articulació de les vocals "obertes" valencianes (les quals tendeixen cap a vocals quasiobertes).
  • Segons, tampoc hi ha cap document que diga que els parlants jóvens tenen iesme (sí que hi han documents que diuen que existeix iesme/iodització a Mallorca, a la Catalunya Nord com a algunes àrees al voltant del Vallès, però no en valencià). Jo sóc jove, i no tinc iesme, de fet mos pares em van ensenyar bé la diferència entre "i consonàntica", "la jota valenciana" i "ʎ".
De totes maneres, perdoneu-me de nou per haver revertit les vostres contribucions, i espere que les meues accions no vos hagen molestat, sou més que benvingut a ajudar a millorar l'article del valencià (tingues en compte però, ha de centrar-se únicament en el valencià estàndard segons l'AVL: [1]). Igualment, si voleu i vos interessa també podeu crear articles específics sobre els nostres dialectes: valencià septentrional, valencià central (apitxat), etc. que encara no existeixen. Un salut. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 23:42, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

_______________


Benvolgut Jaume:

Estic d'acord que les col·laboracions de la Wikipedia haurien d'anar acompanyades de referències científiques acreditades de forma que allò que s'afirma no siguen o pareguen opinions. Vós sabeu bé que si seguim eixe principi hauríem d'esborrar moltes de les col·laboracions que es fan espontàniament a Wikipedia per tal d'augmentar o millorar les col·laboracions existents.

Amb molt de gust tindria amb vós una comunicació privada per donar-vos certa informació dialectal que pareix que no teniu i que hauríeu de conéixer. Ho dic per açò que comenteu de l'obertura de les vocals obertes i també del ieisme que confirmen molts estudis. Pel que fa a les dades que confirmen una altura de è i ò semblant o igual a /a/ en valencià, sóc jo l'investigador qui ho confirma amb dades de l'espectrògraf. Vos deixe la referència al meu treball sobre fonètica i dialectologia publicat per l'Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua i que amb goig vos faria arribar si vos interessa en format digital:

SABORIT VILAR, JOSEP (2009): Millorem la pronúncia. AVL. València. (ISBN 978.84-482-5297-7)

Crec que no sóc jo, per ser l'autor, la persona més idònia per a jutjar l'autoritat que puguen tindre la meua tasca d'invesitigador, però ja que demanàveu referències o fonts, ací les teniu.

Des d'un to amical, crec que heu actuat amb un poc de pressa en eliminar la meua aportació, però agraïsc el to de la vostra reposta i les explicacions.

Ben cordialment,

J. S.

Jrsaborit (talk) 00:47, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Sí, teniu raó, jo sóc un dels defensors de les col·laboracions amb refèrencies, encara que això significaria esborrar molta informació que potser no siga totalment falsa.
La veritat m'ha sorprés la vostra resposta; i sincerament, sens dubte, m'agradaria tindre una comunicació privada amb vós.
Des del meu punt de vista, trobe ben curioses les vocals obertes valencianes, i si vós dieu que heu fet un estudi amb un espectrògraf seria molt interessant poder fer-li una ullada. Ja fa temps que he estat buscant dades sobre l'articulació de les vocals obertes valencianes o alguna cosa similar. Malauradament però, no he trobat res consistent que poguera verificar l'aproximació d'aquestes vocals cap a uns al·lòfons quasioberts o oberts. Supose que la vostra investigació és exclusiva del valencià, no? Ho dic perquè al balear també ocorre una cosa similar amb les vocals obertes i m'agradaria afegir la referència del vostre treball a la pàgina de fonologia catalana per a ampliar la informació de la pronúncia de les vocals valencianes, si vols clar.
Sobre el iesme, pense que no s'ha de promoure aquest fet en valencià, encara que estiga en expansió (clarament per influència del castellà). És evident que els parlants més jóvens són els més influenciats per la fonètica castellana contemporània (pels mitjans de comunicació, l'expansió del castellà i certa substitució del valencià pel castellà), malgrat això aquest procés fonològic no és recomanable al valencià estàndard ni al català, però alguna menció podríem afegir a la pàgina del valencià si és cert que els estudis confirmen la substitució de /ʎ/ per [ʝ] o [j].
Moltes gràcies per la informació, i disculpeu-me una altra volta per haver actuat massa de pressa en esborrar les vostres contribucions. Salutacions. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 15:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

_________________


Jaume:

El meu treball publicat per l'AVL, Millorem la pronúncia, és una descripció del vocalisme i consonantisme del valencià acompanyat d'una sèrie de reflexions en matèria de fonètica normativa i una col·lecció de converses il·lustratives dels dialectes valencians . Precisament l'eradicació del ieisme és un dels punts més destacats del meu treball, que té un capítol dedicat a la correcció fonètica o ortoèpica. Eixe èmfasi en el ieisme (també en la confusió de v-b) pretén posar fre a una innovació que en moltes comarques valencians s'ha generalitzat en parlants que ara tenen menys de 30 anys.

Hi han diverses ressenyes al meu treball, com per exemple la del meu amic Eugeni. S. Reig:

http://www.pagina26.com/opinio/10536-un-llibre-fonamental-millorem-la-pronuncia-.html

Tinc el treball en format .pdf i vos el faré arribar amb molt de gust si em faciliteu el vostre correu electrònic.

Salutacions corals,

J. S.

Jrsaborit (talk) 16:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Valencià

Hi, I noticed you changed [valenˈsja] into [valensiˈa] which sounds me very odd for Valencian/Catalan. Do you have recordings or references confirming that this pronunciation is predominant in Valencia? Regards--Carnby (talk) 06:51, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

In Standard Valencian/Catalan syllabification/stress works just like in Portuguese, which differs a bit from that of Castilian and Italian.
In Catalan we take more into account "falling diphthongs", whereas "rising diphthongs" are hypothetically hiatuses (except qu/qü [kw] and gu/gü [gw] combinations -quan, següent-, when i [j] occurs word-initially -iode, iogurt- or when i [j] and u [w] occur in intervocalic position -creuar, deia-). For more details check Catalan phonology#Diphthongs and triphthongs.
i.e. València and família are proparoxytone words (with hiatuses: all proparoxytone words have stress in Catalan and Portuguese, |fa.mi.li.a| is split into 3 syllables, and not 2 |fa.mi.lja| as in Castilian), similarly valencià, familiar are oxytone words (with no diphthong; |fa.mi.li.ar| have 4 syllables, whereas 3 in Spanish |fa.mi.ljar|).
Despite this, in regular speech València, valencià, família, etc. tend to be pronounced with diphthongs (however we don't reflect this in our transcriptions, just standard syllabification).[1]
You can also check AVL standard[2] and Standard Catalan accentuation and syllabification.[3][4] Jɑυмe (xarrades) 18:15, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
  1. ^ Wheeler (2005:78)
  2. ^ L'estàndard oral valencià
  3. ^ Institut d'Estudis Catalans Els diftongs, els triftongs i els hiats - Gramàtica de la Llengua Catalana (provisional draft)
  4. ^ Carbonell & Llisterri (1992:54)
Yes, I know the accentuation rules of Spanish, Catalan/Valencian and Portuguese, but I honestly don't undestand what it has to do with the [-ˈsja] vs [-siˈa]. It's a mere question of raising diphthong vs hiatus and in this case the graphical accent cannot mark the difference between the two forms (unless one uses a diaeresis: valencià vs valencïa, but I don't know if it is really used in Valencian) since the stress is always on the last syllable. Nevertheless, I would like to know which is the actual use of Valencian speakers, especially among educated people.--Carnby (talk) 00:02, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
I haven't said accentuation rules, but syllabification and stress: valencià is tetrasyllabic or quadrisyllabic: [va.len.siˈa] (as I said earlier we don't take into consideration rising diphthongs (theorically hiatuses) –excepting in word initial position, in intervocalic position and /kw/ & /gw/; regarded by some as labiovelar phonemes /kʷ/ and /gʷ/, as in Latin–). In Italian and Castilian, valenziano and valenciano are also tetrasyllabic words, [va.lenˈtsja.no] and [ba.lenˈθja.no] (however you don't omit the ending -no and you don't split rising diphthongs). In Portuguese, valenciano, is pentasyllabic [va.lẽ.siˈa.nu], as it follows the same syllabification pattern as Catalan, but it keeps the ending -no.
In Catalan/Valencian, the diaeresis can't be used to break rising diphthongs (hiatuses) like, Maria (Catalan pronunciation: [maˈɾi.a]). It is only used to break "falling diphthongs" (e.g. raïm [raˈim], veïna [veˈina], taüll [taˈuʎ], etc. still and all, there are some few cases where the diaeresis can be used intervocally, as in incloïa), another use of the diaeresis is to make sound "u" [w] in rising diphthongs after /k/ and /g/; e.g. pingüí [piŋˈgwi].
As I said valencià tend to be pronounced [valenˈsja] in regular and fast speech (colloquial Valencian), and [valensiˈa] in formal and careful speech (educated speakers).
Compare formal and careful speech of the following hiatuses and trisyllabic words:
and:
Nevertheless, in fast and regular speech some speakers might diphthongise some of these hiatuses (only when stress isn't involved with "i" & "u"): àvia [ˈavja], avià [aˈvja] and avieu [aˈvjɛw], but proper hiatuses like avia & havia, and havíeu never become diphthongs. However, we only use formal and careful speech in our transcriptions of Catalan and Valencian.

Portuguese hiatuses

I'm pretty sure those words are examples of where Brazilian Portuguese more readily uses the glides (I'm currently confined to a mobile device, making checking hard). Look for example at Portuguese Wiktionary, it has a whole category of proparoxytonic words which feature diphthongs (and one fewer syllable) in Brazil. Here's Plínio there, with their convention of using a colon to represent those ephemeral syllable boundaries. The rest of their help page on this issue is here.

In Brazil-related words, it seems appropriate to use the more local pronunciation. It could be worth a discussion at the project page to establish a norm for this issue. — ˈzɪzɨvə (talk) 15:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Balearic

I see your point, however the article deals mostly with linguistic features of the local dialect while the Valencian box is not an infobox per se but more like a navbox with all kinds of unrelated topics. And since the article is rather short we should only place one such box that provides the most relevant information and sums up the article. That was my motivation. De728631 (talk) 15:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

WP:IPA for Arabic

Many thanks for improving the appearance of the vowels table :) --Mahmudmasri (talk) 20:05, 30 May 2011 (UTC)


Please be more careful

I must seriously call on you to better learn Wikipedia:Article titles before proceeding to any more moves, as several of your decisions in this area have made me wonder; in primis, you really must better understand WP:COMMONNAME, even if this means ending up with a Castillan name that wasn't the one he had as a native. Making some comparisons between the old and new article titles through Google Books (and excluding non-English language texts) the article names you've chosen are almost unknown in English. A perfect example of a lack of WP:COMMONNAME is with Juan Boscan: you explained the move saying EB used it to, but for wiki policies the key part is the title, and that one isn't Joan Boscà i Almogàver but instead "Juan Boscán"[2]. Thus the point you should always pose yourself is if your move is in line with policy, before doing it. Also, please be more careful on another topic: Joan Boscà i Almogàver and Joaquin Homs were subjected multiple moves in a few minutes, a thing that makes it impossible for non-admins to revert a move. Also, please don't leave notices of your move requests on your user talk page: it is often frowned upon as a potential form of canvassing. It would be better to respect form and always leave a note on WP:RM; but on top of all, again, please remember policy and WP:COMMONNAME. Bye, Aldux (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Balearic Islands

Hi,

you appear to be involved in an edit war involving the first paragraph of the article. I suggest a deep breath and:

  1. temporarily stop making changes to the first paragraph
  2. work on expanding the second section. There is a definite need for more information on the people of the islands, their culture, language, etc. This should include the current linguistic situation (both what the people speak and how the Spanish State refers to the islands).
  3. open a section on the talk page to specifically address the first line of the article. We can get outside opinions, as well.

If you guys care enough to vigorously edit that first line, I am hoping you care enough to work on expanding and improving what is currently a far too short, incomplete article. Jd2718 (talk) 19:29, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you, the Balearic Islands article needs to be expanded, IMO the lede and infobox is fine as it was, until user:Maurice27 came up to impose his will. The Spanish State refers to the Balearic Islands/Valencian Community in Spanish using the Official forms Illes Balears/Comunitat Valenciana, e.g. the Spanish Statistical Institute INE utilises the official names. Additionally, the Statute of Autonomy of the Balearic Islands cites "the official denominations of the Balearic places are in Catalan," thus "Illes Balears" instead of Islas Baleares and "Palma" instead of Palma de Mallorca. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 19:50, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Can we move this to the article's talk page? The article has been on my watch list for two years because I am frustrated with how shamefully short and weak it is. I'd like to think your immediate dispute is an opportunity to improve the article. Jd2718 (talk) 19:54, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Warning about your edit warring in articles Valencian Community and Balearic Islands

I write you this note at your talk page to warn you about your unpolite behaviour at both Valencian Community and Balearic Islands articles.

Accusations of Vandalism:

Since I've been suffering your reverts and accusations of vandalism (example 1 and example 2) I kindly ask you to read Wikipedia:Vandalism and understand your incorrect use of this accusation. I also urge you to read Wikipedia:Assume good faith.

For this reason, reiteration in your accusations will be reported.

3RR attacks:

I have been reverted by you 5 times at Valencian Community:

And I have also been reverted by you another 4 times at Balearic Islands:

For this reason, I also ask you to read Wikipedia:Edit warring. I will copy/paste you something: -"An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Violations of the rule normally attract blocks of at least 24 hours. Any appearance of gaming the system by reverting a fourth time just outside the 24-hour slot is likely to be treated as a 3RR violation."

For this reason, reiteration in your revertions will be reported.

Removal of edits at infoboxes:

Some of the reasons for your despotic reverts have been (i.e: "I deleted the unofficial name YOU added" and "rv, the Spanish exonym "Islas Baleares" is not official"). Since your clearly DO NOT FOLLOW wikipedia guidelines, I will guide you to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (infoboxes), where you will NOT find ANY backing for your attitude and POV; meanwhile, if you look at the Geographical infoboxes section you may read that: "[...]Alternate or native names can appear[...]".

So basically, this means that your POV of erasing the spanish language DOES NOT follow wikipedia guidelines, while mine does. Geografical infoboxes are NOT only for official names and "Alternate or native names can appear".

For this reason, reiteration in your erasing of my edits will be reported.

I have enough proofs here above to ask for your blocking immediately, so I ask you to stop your behaviour and reconsider your attitude. --Maurice27 About Me, Talk, Vandalize. 19:39, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

While I understand the warning, wouldn't it be better if the two of you worked on expanding Balearic Islands to at least the size and quality of Valencian Community? It is a small, sad article right now, and you may be the right people to make it much better. As far as the language questions, bring them to the talk pages and get other editors involved. Jd2718 (talk) 19:44, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
And I ask you, how can any editor work on expanding if each of his edits is reverted because some editors are only worried in making these articles in wikipedia a catalanist political pamphlet about their anti-spanish sentiments? How can we? --Maurice27 About Me, Talk, Vandalize. 19:52, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
We begin by talking instead of warring over edits. I've asked on your talk page for you to self-revert your most recent edit. That probably leaves the article in the WP:Wrong Version, which, for the moment is fine. Jd2718 (talk) 20:07, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Request

Hello! Could you write an article about my city - Żagań on Catalan Wikipedia? Only 2-4 sentences enough. I would be thankful. Saganum (talk) 12:20, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your article! Saganum (talk) 22:00, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Joaquín Sorolla y Bastida

Hello, the portrait of President Taft painted by Sorolla in 1909 needs additonal references as far as the source of the photo is concerned. As we can read on nr.2 in the references, it says, Sorolla, Francisco Pons:Sorolla:his Painting and his family, p.19. Nr.15 where Taft is mentioned, the image comes from the same book p.158. Hope my information can help. Greetings, Kalaharih--Kalaharih (talk) 00:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Catalan-speaking countries

Category:Catalan-speaking countries, which you created, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 03:04, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

re: Edit war

I've contacted an administrator (user:Angr) to intervene for us.--Luizdl (talk) 01:10, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Portuguese language

Olá, Jaume. Graças por teres corregido 'terra' transcrito com e fechado em lugar de e aberto. Som cousas que acontecem por acrescentar material em horas intempestivas...

Porém, nom estou de acordo com outras mudanças que figeche na transcriçom:

  • 'Vénus' tem vogal aberta em galego, tal como antes estava.
  • É [koɾaˈθons], com nasal alveolar, nom velar. Nos plurais de palavras acabadas em consoante nasal, dita nasal nunca é velar. Tampouco é velar a consoante nasal implosiva em interior de palavra se seguida de [s], como 'constituiçom".
  • [korupˈθoŋ] e [kwaliˈðaðes] correspondem ao padrom defendido pola Academia Galega da Língua Portuguesa. Nom é lugar para discuti-lo, mais [θoŋ] é a terminaçom própia e patrimonial (no padrom ILG-RAG aceita-se numhas poucas palavras que apresentam evoluçom da raiz, quer dizer, que som patrimoniais: 'fechazón', 'doazón', 'beizón', 'traizón').

Quanto a 'qualidades', nom hai razom para que apresente umha pronúncia alternativa [kaliˈðaðes] porque a reduçom de QUA- [kwa] latino a [ka] só se deu em palavras patrimoniais (e só no ocidente da Galiza). Só a pronúncia [kwaliˈðaðes] é a aceite pola Academia Galega da Língua Portuguesa e AGAL, e até hai bem pouco, tamém polo ILG e a RAG.

  • Nom vejo a necessidade de marcar a divisom silábica em 'sua' [ˈsu.a] em lugar de simplesmente transcrever [ˈsua]. Penso que nom era preciso modificar rem nesse sentido.

Abraço,

Susomoinhos (talk) 02:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

De nada Susomoinhos.
Julgava a incidência do "e/o aberto" em galego era menor do que no português europeu padrão, mas não estava certo.
Quanto às terminações em -zón vs -ción, eu tenho uma vaga idéia disso... Eu já sabia o sufixo -çom ([õ] ou [õⁿ, oŋ]) é um traço característico do português setentrional e do galego reintegracionista, mas não do "galego padrão" (só em casos de palavras patrimoniais como você diz). Fiquei na dúvida e, por isso, procurei corrupzón no dicionário galego e na wikipédia galega, porém não consegui encontrar o termo grafado com o sufixo -zón e, por consequência, adicionei [j] na transcrição do galego.
Eu acho a melhor opção é transcrever estas palavras com o som [j] entre parênteses, só quando alternativamente podem se pronunciar com um ditongo: [korupˈθ(j)oŋ] (parece-me é um tipo de variação dialectal similar ao 'ix' [(j)ʃ] do catalão). Igualmente, eu faria o mesmo com [w] nas palavras com <qu> [k(w)], como quantidade, qualificar, qualidades, etc.
Você tem razão, não é preciso marcar a divisão silábica. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 21:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Olá Jaume, você fez muito bem em fazer estas modificações no artigo, mas na seção de exemplos de pronúncia, na pronúncia de São Paulo, eu achei melhor deixar as vogais foneticamente nasalizadas sem o diacrítico porque em São Paulo elas não são sempre nasalizadas, e quando são nasalizadas, a nasalização é menor de que a das nasais fonêmicas.--Luizdl (talk) 01:56, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Bom, na verdade nom se trata de duas pronúncias dialectais. Trata-se antes dumha pronúncia estabelecida por uns organismos que negam que o galego seja considerado um dialecto do português (contrariamente à lingüística románica) e outra pronúncia defendida por outros organismos que inserem o galego entre as variedades existentes na Lusofonia. Oferecer essa possibilidade entre parênteses é, mutatis mutandi, como se colocássemos, nos artigos escritos em catalám, as duas escritas possíveis para o valenciano cada vez que se mencionar um termo relacionado com o País Valenciano. (É umha opiniom totalmente pessoal). Abraço. Susomoinhos (talk) 23:29, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Eonavian

In my opinion, the studies who you quote are too eldest. These studies deal with a problematic subject which is not well known a international level. You ask me about linguistic references at general books in regarding to specific linguistic subject, I'm sorry, it is absurd. I could quote all studies that you want about the Eonavian specific question, but is not a good idea ask for general studies like ELL. Another hand the studies who you quote, see Xavier Frías or Lindley, are published when they didn't know anything the existence of old parchments of Eonavian and the dependence on the language spoken in the Middle Ages at Western Asturias with the Galaico-Portuguese language. This language, the galician-portuguese, like I guess you know, is very complex, it is very different than the present Galician and Portuguese language and even today there are many doubts about the translate the some sentence of its documents. The Galician-Portuguese is today for a portuguese or a galician people like the Latin language for a italian.

On the Eo-navia this language dissappears of the social life in 1511, when is installed the Castillian Congregation in Oscos, since this date until XIX century we knows very few things about the tongue speaks in Eo-navia. We know the begin and the End of that story, because during those days, the dark age, the galician-portuguese is preserved in the Eonavian for centuries only for the domestic life. For that reason the eonavian keep today, better the words galician-portugueses in female than male, because the woman had a social roll less active than the man. Today, the language who speaks the people is the result of four centuries the linguistic exclude. In now, the linguistic substrate follows being gallego-portuguese but with a very important superstrate in castillian although not major than galician but diferent. On that way the eonavian preserve better than Galician the sistem vocalic, the lack of the nasal vowels, the sistem verbal and keep, even today in some places the nasal vowels. There are a conection in both language for their common origin, but the language are very different. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Candalín (talk • contribs) 23:49, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your explanation Candalín, but I don't really understand your point... How does this explain (prove) Eonavian is widely recognised as a language? Do you know any linguist who treats Eonavian as a different language from Galician (or Asturian)?
Most scholars regard this genuine variety as either a dialect or transitional dialect, who supports (apart from you) Eonavian is a totally different "language" from "Galician" or "Asturian"? Jɑυмe (xarrades) 00:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I resume the most importants works in regarding the subjects that you ask me:

ESTUDIES IS DEALT WITH ACKNOWLEDGEMENT ABOUT THE EONAVIAN LIKE A LANGUAGE IGNACIO VARES GARCÍA. Paso y presente del Gallego Asturiano. II Actas d'Estudios de occidente. A Cárida 2006, p. 11. FERNÁNDEZ VIOR, Achegamento a realidá lingüística del Navia-Eo. II Actas d'Estudios de occidente. A Cárida 2006, p. 11.

ESTUDIES IN FAVOUR OF AUTHONOMY LINGÜÍSTIC GONZÁLEZ RODRÍGUEZ, R. & SAAVEDRA FERNÁNDEZ-COMBARRO (2006): «Aproximación pragmática a la categorización de una lengua: la fala del Navia-Eo», en T. Brandenberger & B. Schmid (eds.), Actas del VI Encuentro hispano-suizo de filólogos noveles (Oviedo, 9 de mayo de 2006). Basel, Romanisches Seminar der Universität. [N’imprenta]. LLOPEZ, (2006) Xuan Ignaciu. Xuegos d'identidá na tierra Navia-Eo: Identity building in the land between the rivers Navia and Eo: a critical approach. Letres Asturianes, Boletín Oficial de l’Academia de la Lingua, nº 91, p. 101-143.

ESTUDIES WHICH APPOINTMENT EONAVIAN LIKE A AUTONOMOUS VARIETY OF GALICIAN-PORTUGUESE LANGUAGE MÉNDEZ, B. & FREDO DE CARBEXE (2000): «Bases pra úa valorización sociollingüística en Asturias. El Navia-Eo», en Lletres Asturianes 75: 27-47. SUÁREZ FERNÁNDEZ, X. M. (2000) ¿Gallego-asturiano ou a nosa fala? A voltas col nome, Entrambasauguas, ISSN 1137-165X, Nº. 13, 2000, págs. 3-7

SISTEMATIC ESTUDIES ABOUT DIALECTS EONAVIAN. GARCÍA GARCÍA, José. El habla de El Franco. Pub. Bernaldo de Quirós, 1983. MUÑIZ, C. (1978): El habla del Valledor. Estudio descriptivo del gallego asturiano de Allande, (Asturias-España). Amsterdam, Academische Pers. FERNÁNDEZ VIOR, (1998) El habla de Vegadeo, (A veiga y su concejo). Academia de la Lengua Asturiana. Uviéu Asturies.

BORDERING THE EONAVIAN ON ASTURIAN There are many studies the most important are: BABARRO, Xoan, (2003), Galego d’Asturias delimitación, caracterización e situación sociolingüística. 2 vols. A crouña Fundación Barrié de la Maza. Menéndez García, Ramón: "Algunos límites dialectales para el occidente de Asturias", IDEA 1.951 nº 14,) Rodríguez Castellano, Lorenzo: "Palatización de la L inicial en la zona de habla gallega", 1948, Nº 4. Frías Conde, F.X: "O límites entre el galego e asturleonés en Asturias", Revista de filología románica, nº 18, págs. 51 y 72. Ramón Menéndez Pidal: "El Dialecto Leonés", Revista de Archivos, Bibliotecas y Museos, 2-3:130-131, 1906.

BORDERING THE EONAVIAN ON GALICIAN FERNÁNDEZ VIOR, El habla de Vegadeo, (A veiga y su concejo). Academia de la Lengua Asturiana. Uviéu Asturies. 1997.

INVESTIGATION WORKS Proxecto ETLEN para o estudo dialectográfico e dialectométrico da zona Eo-Navia, Asturias: fundamentos teóricos e metodolóxico.


-Candalin, you have just said "On that way the eonavian preserve better than Galician the sistem vocalic, the lack of the nasal vowels, the sistem verbal and keep, even today in some places the nasal vowels." I really would like to know where did you read that. I'm very interested in knowing which linguist said that the Eo-Navian:

  • preserve better than Galician the vocalic system,
  • it preserved better than Galician the lack of the nasal vowels,
  • keeps in some places the nasal vowels.

Please could you mention some fonts our sources? And some examples?

Thanks a lot!

Susomoinhos (talk) 01:34, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it would help if you add references to all your statements. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 18:31, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

The eonavian preserve better the sistem vocalic than Galician because in eonavian the closed vowels have a effect metaphonic, because the verb conjugation depends on the vowel that you use.

The nasal vowels are residual today in the Eonavia. The nasal vowels were found by Celso Muñiz (1978) at the Valledor Valley and Menéndez García in Villayon (1951) in the middle of XX century. On the XIX century Fernández Fernández assert which sound <ã> have widespread. Frías Conde have a interesting study about the <ĩ> nasal, in his artticle "O relativo do continuum...". In the parchments of Oscos was widespread the <ĩ>, i.e. mĩa and the <ṹ> nasal, and also the other nasal vowels the same way than the Galician-portuguese. In my experience personal, I have found the folowing words with vowels in those seen slightly nasalized: d<ĩ>eiro y coc<ĩ>eira. At last, my name Candalín, had a vowel nasal, because in the old documents of my house (XVII century) appears candãal, althoung such sound today has desappeared: candãal>candal.--Candalín (talk) 21:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

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Osona...

...shouldn' t be a redirect. It primarily refers to either (a) the comarca or (b) the county, but it definitely has a primary topic. I have redirected it to County of Osona since that was where it originally was, and those links should not be broken. I think if you think the primary topic is the comarca, you should propose to move the page Osona (comarca) to the title Osona per WP:RM; and it would also be nice if you fixed the links that should go to the county's article. Srnec (talk) 23:31, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for your tips. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 01:46, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Phonology of Galician language

Hi, Jaume. Thanks in advance! In fact I'm going after it, LOL. I've been working at Galician language, in several of its sections including phonology, but I think I have enough material to create a nice and useful standalone article on the subject. I let you know.

Cheers,
--Froaringus (talk) 14:44, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

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Miserachs

Hola! Sóc en Kippelboy de Sabadell. Edito moltíssim a la Viquipèdia en català però a l'anglesa encara no hi estic habituat. Li pots donar un cop d'ull a l'article Xavier Miserachs? Més que per temes de traducció (encara està a mitges i necessita moltes millores) és sobretot pel tema de format, estil i categorització, que encara no sé ben bé com funciona en aquesta wiki. He mirat una mica la feina que fas i deu n'hi do! Felicitats i gràcies.--Kippelboy (talk) 18:29, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Names

Jaume, oddly enough the English Wikipedia uses English. It is not correct to move article names of works with names that are just descriptive, not titles by the artist, to their version in whatever the local language is (or one of them). See WP:COMMONNAME. Thanks Johnbod (talk) 00:48, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

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Catalan Culture Challenge

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