User talk:Masterhatch/User talk:Masterhatch2

Naming conventions and non-English characters

Masterhatch, I have come across your comments on discussion pages before, and you always struck me as being quite level-headed, even on topics on which others become quite emotional (e.g., Sea of Japan). Well, I just ran across something new, which was that, apparently (I only skimmed the comments) you have argued for the elimination of non-English diacritical marks in the English Wikipedia. I don't share your passion on this, though I do agree with you. What I am passionate about is the insanity of including non-English characters, especially in the titles of articles. My prime exhibit is the article Franz Josef Strauß, on which I devoted some time arguing a bit over a year ago. I was pretty new at Wik back then (still am, I guess, with probably less than 2000 edits), but it still amazes me that common sense failed to carry the day on that one. I'm guessing that you know that, in English, "Strauß" is usually rendered "Strauss", but—well, look. If you have time, I'd love to have you review that discussion, and if you are willing to enter the subject, I would love to have you spearhead a drive to change Strauß back to Strauss. I don't participate in any kind of Wiki-socializing, perhaps you have others who could bring their weight to bear on this. If FJS had been better known in the US, I doubt that the Anglophobes could have carried this argument. Are you interested? Unschool 03:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I certainly understand your battle fatigue. Frankly, it really stunned me that such things can even be debated, and I agree with you, it is the non-English speakers who are raising the stink. Frankly, I think that anyone whose first language is not English should not have a voice in these matters, but of course, realitically, there's no way to police such a policy.

Your "retirement" is a loss to the community, but of course, many commonsense people have been similarly beaten into withdrawal. I do hope that you'll reconsider fighting the good fight, and if you do, let me know, and I'll work with you to inject some commonsense into the debate. Unschool 06:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

BTW, you stated, "Wikipedia is for the layman and the most recognisable spellings to the layman are to be used. That is wikipedia policy." Can you point me in the direction of such policy? I'm most pathetic at combing through Wikipedia pages on Wikipedia. Unschool 06:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

WPP & WPT

Hello, Masterhatch. Thought you might wants to check out my compromise proposals on these two Project pages. I'm still hoping this Diacritic debates/disputes can be resolved. GoodDay 22:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

PS- I hope your retirement is temporary. Return soon. GoodDay 23:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I tried

Hello, Masterhatch. For these last few days (as a New Year's Wikipedia resolution), I (though personally against diacritics, on bio articles) tried to bring about a compromise between Pro-diacritic & Anti-diacritic editors. I've experience acceptance of compromising from (Anti-diacritic editors), however for the most part, I've experienced stubborness from pro-diacritics editors (except Krm500). I started an Rfc at Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format (already it's credibility, is questioned). Suggested a new guideline at Wikipedia: Naming conventions (that's already, being disputed). You were right Masterhatch, you were right about too much PoV having consumed (at least) the Diacritics dispute. I was thinking of seeking a Arbitration Commitee ruling, but I'm just fed up with it. I'll tell you this much though, the NHL team articles have had diacritics removed (consensus at Talk: Colorado Avalanche) and I'll support that move, to the end. Let someone else worry about the NHL bio articles. Again, here's hoping you return. Yours truly, a very disillusioned GoodDay 01:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Read your posting here. Well said my fellow Wikipedian, well said. GoodDay 02:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Yankees76 is correct. This Diacritics Schism is headed towards an Arbitration Committee Review/Ruling. GoodDay 22:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know how Arbitration Committees work, but if there's a way that we can input into their decision, I hope someone lets me know--I am really unhappy about the way that this is going. I don't mind being on the losing end of an argument, I really don't. But I think that this topic has been hijacked by a lot of non-English speakers who, quite frankly, lack the perspective to decide what goes in our Wik. God knows that I would never be so arrogant as to tell the Spanish or German Wiks how to put their articles together. Yes, I know that there are a few people on the pro-ß and pro-Ř sides who are native speakers of English. But they are a minority. If the majority of en-Wik users were cognizant of these issues, the votes would be 900-25 against foreign spellings, every time. Unschool 06:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Masterhatch, do you exchange email with other Wikipedians? I've never done this, but supposedly there' a way to do it. Unschool 22:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

A 'pro-diacritics' editor, seems to be questioning the authority, an AC ruling would have in the 'Diacritics' dispute at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format. Questioning Diacritics is one thing, questioning the Arbitration Committee's authority, is hitting below the belt. GoodDay 20:37, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid another dispute ended in stalemate (again). As Yankees76 observed, the best 'most common English usage' arguments, will never convince 'pro-diacritic' editors to drop the diacritics from English Wikipedia article titles. GoodDay 22:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Waldemar Matuska

Maybe you should be interested in this, please see this link Diacritics dispution. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 15:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Vote for Carlsbad/KV

There is a vote in the discussion going, please visit, your point of view and support is appreciated. -- IEEE 04:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Rene Lafleur

Another editor has added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Rene Lafleur, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Oo7565 08:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Ice Hockey Project discussion of hockey player notability and project scope

Please come join the WikiProject Ice Hockey Notability standards for hockey players discussion. I'd like to see input from all our project members who have an opinion. Thanks! ColtsScore 23:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Dokdo RM poll

Hey, could you participate in a new poll for Dokdo? The candidates include Liancourt Rocks, Takeshima, and the new Takeshima/Dokdo variations suggested by user:Macgruder. I'm informing you because you voted on the last poll. Thanks. (Wikimachine 19:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)) [1]

Goldstein

If it's a hoax, best to tag as {{db-nonsense}}, rather than just {{delete}}. Makes it a bit easier to spot. --Steve _(Stephen) ^talk 05:15, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

List of Pittsburgh Pirates (NHL) players

Shouldn't the American based hockey teams use the American spellings and the Canadian teams use the Canadian spellings for defenseman, center, and so on? I thought that was the general rule to follow when it came to hockey articles on Wikipedia. --Sparkhurst 22:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Invitation

You discussed the name of Vossstrasse the last time it came up; you may be interested in doing so again. See Talk:Voßstraße#Page_name. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Bobby Lee

Hi, you'll find a reference to his one NHL game on his Legends of Hockey bio. Cheers -- JD554 (talk) 07:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Franz Josef Strauß

27 months ago, when I joined Wikipedia, you, Masterhatch, were one of my role models. Wherever I found your comments on talk pages, it was always thoughtful and well-reasoned (was that redundant? No matter; no one was ever hurt by excessive plaudits).

I know that you've become much less active on Wikipedia. It can grow discouraging, fighting editors who are more concerned about legalistic arguments than building an encyclopedia to help as many people as possible. There have been many times when I've wanted to come to your user page and ask for support on some matter or another, but I've tried to resist it because most of the matters that I become concerned with are likely old hat for you. (As I know this one is.) But this time I think it's truly important to have your input. Could I ask you to take another look at the new discussion going on at Franz Josef Strauß? Just your support would be appreciated; anything more you could provide would be icing on the cake. Thanks. Unschool (talk) 01:37, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh well. I really screwed up royally. But I've beaten myself up enough over the past few hours that I can move on to something else. Well, kinda something else. I just wanted to say that you are right, in that point that you made on the talk page for FJS, that what is needed is not restrictions on canvassing, but more canvassing. The more people involved the more likely it is that consensus, once achieved, will be genuine. I'm going to take this issue up, another day. Thanks for participating, and I look forward to working together again in the future [if that isn't totally banned by then :-)].

NHL team articles

Hello Masterhatch. They've broken me (they being, the pro-diacritics editors) at the Hockey articles. I've revoked my WikiProject: Hockey membership. Because of those control-freaks, I no longer find the hockey articles fun. GoodDay (talk) 16:30, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

My guess is, the editor who was 'moving' articles to 'diacritic title etc', without discussion, was Darwinek? he's such a communicative fellow. I've proposed a seperation at Wikipedia: Naming conventions (use English) - It's time we have 'two' English Wikipedias - one for the pro-dios & one for the pro-english. The 'group ownership' of English Wikipedia by the pro-dios? is entrenched. GoodDay (talk) 14:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

There's someting else 'pro-dios' must understand. There never was a consensus to use dios on English Wikipedia (as they claim). GoodDay (talk) 18:30, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

It most certainly was an underhanded 'takeover' by the pro-dios, no question about it. Now that the dios are all over the place & the pro-dios editors are watching? Our chances of removing them grows smaller every month. The pro-dios will never agree to give up their hold. GoodDay (talk) 19:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Idiotic reverts

If you're going to persist in making idotic reverts, perhaps you'd at least check what it is you're reverting? Or maybe you think "Matti Javentie" is the proper, North American, apple pie spelling of Martti Järventie? Kindly don't revert edits to restore typos. Elrith (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

• Are you drunk? You have just, for the second time, changed "Martti Jarventie" to "Matti Javentie". Are you now opposed to the letter "r" in last names? Elrith (talk) 23:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I see that Elrith is being polite again. GoodDay (talk) 23:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia: WikiProject Ice Hockey

Hey Masterhatch. Great to hear from ya again, cool. GoodDay (talk) 21:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Cheers. GoodDay (talk) 22:12, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, likewise, great to see you about, MH. How've you been, and how's the Land of the Morning Calm?  Ravenswing  07:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Palindrome

Why did you delete my palindrome? It's a perfect palindrome. ("S" is not so hard, Dr. A. Host on, sis!)

• A reminder: Palindromes don't have to make sense.

Marcovitaly (talk) 23:00, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

A. How come there are so many other palindromes? B. Original research?? Are you kidding me? This is wikipedia. Everyone can add.

Change it back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marcovitaly (talk • contribs) 06:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Fine, I'm convinced.... =) Marcovitaly (talk) 11:21, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

request

Hi Masterhatch, would you mind moving your latest reply to Husond to his user talk? I am shivering at the idea that we resurrect the zombies of diacritics discussions that had been buried since July approximately. This is a polite request, feel free to ignore it. I would perfectly understand if you feel that other editors (like me) should not make this kind of request, but I thought I would try. Jasy jatere (talk) 20:29, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Re. Hostile?

I am friendly, but my words may indeed sound rather blunt in a few occasions. It's not hostility, it's just frustration to have the same people requesting to be repeated the same arguments again. For years. Wikipedia is not for the layman, it's for everybody. Besides, this is an encyclopedia, not a sports magazine. And we actually have Simple English Wikipedia if someone would actually seek an encyclopedia where content has been deliberately dumbed down. In your view, we should only use diacritics for those rare English words that actually use them, like "café". You forget that are thousand of places and people whose names are not English in the first place. In your view, the Portuguese city of "Mação" for instance, should be written "Macao". These are different cities as you may notice, so the first benefit of diacritics is actually technical. But let's pick a city whose diacritic-less version would not generate a different subject, such as the Czech city of "České Budějovice", which you would find adequate to be presented to readers as "Ceske Budejovice". Most sources already do, why shouldn't we? The reason comes after analyzing what the following readers would do if this were to happen on Wikipedia:

• reader A has no idea how to read Č, é or ě. Reads the name in an English way, which is very distant to the way this name is read in its original language. Fair enough.
• reader B knows how to read Č, é and ě, but since the title does not show the diacritics, this reader will also read the name of the city in a manner that is distant to the way it is read in its original language. Reader B wanted to read this name in the closest possible way to its original language, but was misled. Not fair.

Now here's what happens when "České Budějovice" is shown with diacritics:

• reader A still reads in the exact same way so no harm is done. If by any chance he/she becomes curious to find out how to pronounce the diacritics, Wikipedia is a prompt source of that knowledge.
• reader B, who can read the diacritics, will read the name of the city as it is pronounced in the Czech language. This reader will thus benefit from an accurate title.

So as you can see, there are thousands of foreign concepts that do not exist in the English language, and if we want to provide accuracy to those readers who seek accuracy, then diacritics must be present. However, it is true that in English it is not wrong to write "Ceske Budejovice". But it is even less wrong to write "České Budějovice", and much more reasonable, fair, and encyclopedic to write this way. All of this I have explained countless times, but many users will still stick to this absurd concept that Wikipedia is for those who don't care about accuracy. That's when my words start to sound hostile, I feel like saying, "dammit, be the layman if you want, but let others have the encyclopedia we are supposed to be". Húsönd 22:48, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Diacritics and Hockey

I'm amazed the diacritics compromise at the WikiProject, lasted as long as it did. GoodDay (talk) 15:16, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh well, part of it did. The french accents are -apparently- allowed on North American hockey-based article. Also, those 'bleeping' dios, are still forced on the NHL Roster Templates (player's birthplaces). GoodDay (talk) 15:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Drinkwater

I note several unexplained deletions (no edit summary) to the Port Alberni article. One deletion was the reference to Joe Drinkwater. Is there some reason to think he was not a Port Alberni resident or is it your view that he is does not rate a mention? --KenWalker | Talk 06:28, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Checking further, I see you did note it as deletion of a red link. I found a source for his inclusion in the article and I have added that and restored the content. --KenWalker | Talk 06:56, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Masterhatch! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 937 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

1. André Binette - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

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Revision to Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri articles

I noticed that you have revised either Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri or Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire.

I intend to revise those articles following the Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines. There are more details on the discussion pages of those articles. I'd be interested in any comments you have. It would be best if your comments were on the discussion pages of the two articles.

Thank you.

Vyeh (talk) 03:44, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Change to Sea of Japan East Sea naming rules

I am reviving a discussion on the naming usage of Sea of Japan and East Sea. See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Korean)/Disputed names. (Chunbum Park (talk) 06:21, 27 March 2011 (UTC))

Request for comment

This message is being sent to you because you have previously edited the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) page. There is currently a discussion that may result in a significant change to Wikipedia policy. Specifically, a consensus is being sought on if the policies of WP:UCN and WP:EN continues to be working policies for naming biographical articles, or if such policies have been replaced by a new status quo. This discussion is on-going at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English), and your comments would be appreciated. Dolovis (talk) 17:06, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Care to comment?

Talk:Marek Židlický#Requested move — Who R you? Talk 01:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I know you haven't been active lately, but ...

		The Hockey Barnstar
		For all your fine hockey work over the years ... you’re part of the original Hockey Barnstar class! Ravenswing 21:52, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Chuck Blair (DJ)

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Nomination of List of players who played only one game in the NHL for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of players who played only one game in the NHL is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Speedy deletion nomination of Stephane Veilleux

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Global account

Hi Masterhatch! As a Steward I'm involved in the upcoming unification of all accounts organized by the Wikimedia Foundation (see m:Single User Login finalisation announcement). By looking at your account, I realized that you don't have a global account yet. In order to secure your name, I recommend you to create such account on your own by submitting your password on Special:MergeAccount and unifying your local accounts. If you have any problems with doing that or further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk page. Cheers, —DerHexer (Talk) 16:58, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Wayne Gretzky 99 Award

Is there any award other than Wayne Gretzky 99 Award? Recently Velan Nandhakumaran is awarded with "Wayne Gretzky Award".Lake Ontario Wind (talk) 07:13, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

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Palindrome

Notifying all named accounts who have edited this article this year. There is a discussion of whether this article should contain foreign language palindromes. If you would like to comment the thread is Talk:Palindrome#Non-English_palindromes_2 Meters (talk) 21:12, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

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..

Greetings from the past.

I doubt very much you remember me, but a decade ago, when I was active editing, you were one of my heros, armed with patience and common sense. I do hope that you are doing well. Unschool 04:26, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Good to see that you're still around. Take care. Unschool 16:27, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

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List of one game or playoffs only NHL players listed at Redirects for discussion

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Nomination of List of players who played only one game in the NHL for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of players who played only one game in the NHL is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

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Gord Byers

Hi, I think you were the one who created a page for this hockey player and included his death information (d. Langley, BC, November 2, 2001). I'm wondering if you could tell me how you found that place and date? I haven't been able to find an obit or any other info to confirm your info. Please advise. Thanks.Researchguy (talk) 12:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Hello! While i did create the page, i only created it as a link to a larger project i was working on: list of nhl players who only played one game. I had simply created a redirect and not an article. Someone else had come along and actually created his article Masterhatch (talk) 14:23, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Going through the history, it looks like user Raphie created the actual article from the original redirect Masterhatch (talk) 14:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Great, thanks.Researchguy (talk) 14:43, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

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A cup of tea for you!

Thank you Mohamed Taqi (talk) 14:33, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Fillmore, Louisiana

I noticed you added the hatnote "Fillmore" at Fillmore, Louisiana. A consensus of editors have agreed at WP:DABLINK that "It is usually preferable not to add disambiguation hatnotes to a page whose name already clearly distinguishes itself from the generic term". What is ambiguous about the article title "Fillmore, Louisiana"? How could a reader searching for Fillmore, Ohio or Fillmore, Indiana or Millard Fillmore possibly end up at Fillmore, Louisiana? Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:12, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Blatant sexism

At least we now know where you lie on the sexism spectrum. Thanks for degrading WP. Tony (talk) 13:48, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Degrading wikipedia? You're calling me a sexist. I think that falls under personal attacks. Now look who's degrading WP. WP is not here to change the world. We reflect. And as far as I'm aware, man-made is more common than human-made. Besides all that, MOS is clear about retaining existing styles unless there's a substantial reason to change. There is a boat-load of things in the mos I disagree with but I respect the nearly 20 years of work that went into it. I put my personal ideologies aside when editting. Masterhatch (talk) 14:07, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

All those years ago...

Howdy. Yup, it's been quite a while since we've seen you around. Indeed, myself & Djsasso still are at loggerheads about diacritics. He'll never fully be satisfied until he gets 100% of the territory :) GoodDay (talk) 15:08, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

See current discussion at WP:HOCKEY? I told ya so. GoodDay (talk) 15:30, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

yeah, nice to be back. Not sure how much work I'll get in but I'll contribute where I can. I went through my edit history not too long ago and wow I knew I had started a lot of articles back then but I didnt truly realise until I made the list. Me thinks I had way too much time on my hands back then. Masterhatch (talk) 15:36, 25 August 2021 (UTC)