User talk:Gmrozz/Polymer sandbox

Introduction[edit]

This sandbox has been created in order to coordinate efforts by members of IUPAC's Polymer Division to improve Wikipedia's Polymer article and bring it up to the level of a "feature article" on the Chemistry portal.

See also the talk page of the original article, here. And this discussion on the talk page of the Chemistry WikiProject.

These are the guidelines for a feature article. See also the comparison to criteria for a "good article" ("Polymer" is not classified a good article, yet). --Gmrozz (talk) 09:01, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Preliminary comments[edit]

Please insert below your comments and suggestions about the starting version of the article:

Is the general structure of the article satisfactory? Are we happy with the current division in sections and sub-sections, or should we try to change it?
Do we need some new sections (e.g. “history”)?
Does the article contain things which are wrong or outdated, or definitely need improving?
Can the pictures be improved or replaced by better ones?
Etc. etc.

Remember to sign you comments, like this: --Gmrozz (talk) 13:44, 2 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am happy to be involved. The polymer synthesis section of the existing page needs to be updated if we want to used current IUPAC terminology Can we leave the existing term "chain-growth polymerization" and insert a new term "chain polymerization", which is short for chain reaction polymerization. The term that should be used in place of "step-growth polymerization" is currently being debated by an incipient task group. Currently there is a stub for polyaddition but polycondensation does not exist.

A History section might be useful --[GMoad] 3 September 2019 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gmoad (talk • contribs) 02:30, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SPT JanMerna comments: Structure: I would welcome section on "Polymers applications", Synthesis section is very brief and as GM mentioned outdated terms use, perhaps the structure of copolymers-constitution-could be mentioned closer to the synthesis. Nomenclature terms, even IUPAC listed on Page are wrong ((e.g. oxyethene must be oxyethylene). Perhaps we could inserted more pictures than it is done now. Agree with history section, especially now when we are waiting 100 anniversary of macromolecules recognition — Preceding unsigned comment added by SPT JanMerna (talk • contribs) 10:14, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Work to be done by SPT people[edit]

Guido will first publish his polymer page from his sandbox to the main polymer page. Deadline: today!!!!

Deadline: end of August

Christine (Ckl21 (talk) 04:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)) and Michael: properties, electrical and optical properties[reply]
Patricia: biological polymers
Natalie and Paul and Chris: structure, mechanical properties
Blair: phase behavious and chemical properties
Guido: supervision
Everybody: check history (today!)

Everybody: please make changes! Gmrozz (talk) 07:36, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments by Blair B.[edit]

Chemical Properties[edit]

First sentence should read “The attractive forces between polymer chains play a large part in determining the polymer’s properties.” I would revise the second sentence to read, “Because polymer chains are so long, they have many such interchain interactions per molecule, amplifying the effect of these interactions on the polymer properties in comparison to attractions between conventional molecules”

I would add the following at the end of the section, “The chemical properties and intermolecular interactions in polymers influence far more than the tensile strength and melting points. When in a polymer solution, such as in commercial products like paints and glues, the interactions influence how the solution flows and can even lead to self-assembly of the polymer into complex structures. When a polymer is applied as a coating, the chemical properties will influence the adhesion of the coating and how it interacts with external materials, such as superhydrophobic polymer coatings leading to water resistance. Overall the chemical properties of a polymer are important elements for designing new polymer materials products" “polymer solution” and “self-assembly” and “superhydrophobic” can link to their wiki articles

I don’t know how good it is to cut things, but I feel like the polyethylene paragraph doesn’t really add anything for the general reader/introducing polymers and might add confusion.

Ckl21 (talk) 04:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)I find the whole chemical properties section a little odd. Is it really about chemical properties?[reply]

I agree. A lot of this section deals with non-covalent interactions, which I mostly associate with "physical" rather than "chemical" properties. Gmrozz (talk) 15:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Phase behavior[edit]

In the text (mixing behavior section) where the upper critical solution temperature and lower critical solution temperature are introduced, I would add (LCST) and (UCST) after the words since the figure has only LSCT and UCST labeled. in the last paragraph in “mixing behavior”, the first sentence should start “In dilute solutions, the properties…

There are a few confusing inclusions in this section. Good-theta-poor solvent isn’t really phase behavior and maybe should not be in the Polymer article and instead be in “Polymer Solutions,” which has its own article. I’m also not sure that the plasticizer part should be in the phase behavior section. I would maybe put that with the mechanical properties since that is what they are typically used to control. Gmrozz (talk) 21:11, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SPT Paul Topham (talk) 16:00, 29 July 2020 (UTC) I agree with Blair, what's the best way to sort out these latter changes?[reply]

Ckl21 (talk) 04:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Should we move phase behavior out of properties? It seems that it would fit better under section 4.[reply]

Personally, I prefer to keep it in "Properties". But I agree it could be shortened and simplified, with links to polymer solutions, polymer blends and Flory-Huggins solution theory. I have also noticed that the whole subsection has no external references. Gmrozz (talk) 15:25, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Transport properties[edit]

Ckl21 (talk) 04:33, 5 August 2020 (UTC)This section seems very disjointed with the first paragraph being about small molecules diffusing through the polymer and the second one being about reptation.[reply]

I agree, but overall this section does not look too bad in comparison with others. So it is not a priority, in my opinion. Gmrozz (talk) 15:33, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]