User talk:79.176.85.212
April 2020[edit]
Hello, I'm Acroterion. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Katie Bouman that didn't seem very civil, so it has been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Acroterion (talk) 17:36, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- If this is a shared IP address, and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider creating an account for yourself or logging in with an existing account so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.
- Bouman's biography has seen substantial trolling, with antiSemitic echo memes along with nasty misogyny, so sniping like that isn't appreciated. Please ditch the snarky comments. Acroterion (talk) 17:38, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- This is 2020, mate. Young Jewish girls don't need to hide in the attic anymore.
- If you do get any futher trolling just request a lock on her article. I appreciate your concern. 79.176.85.212 (talk) 17:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- 2020 has seen a remarkable amount of trolling and tagging of biographies in general as "Jewish-Xxxxian" across the board, as if that's a nationality. I'm an administrator who has blocked many of the trolls and protected articles. Lecturing the editors who have dealt with the disruption on what they ought to do isn't helpful. And leave Anne Frank out of it. Acroterion (talk) 18:06, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Being Jewish is both an ethnicity and a nationality. As well as a religion. No need to hide it as long as it's correct and adjacent to a reliable source. Acroterion, check my IP geolocation for further insights. 79.176.85.212 (talk) 18:13, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- There have been determined attempts to single out Jews as "other", omitting the "Xxxxian" part. Apart from that (and in part because of that), we're very careful not to place greater emphasis on Jewishness than on being, for instance Presbyterian, unless religious identity is a central part of someone's life, and for that we need more sourceable material than mere mention. The manual of style discourages ethnic or religious identity up front in articles unless it's vital, and discourages passing references to someone's religion out of proportion to comparable biographies - we don't see that someone's Catholic unless there's a strong biographical reason to do that. Bouman has been a particular target for trolls, and while I understand the desire to claim her and be damned to the trolls, her article has been a trollfest. Acroterion (talk) 18:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- I see, you meant the very first nationality part in the opening paragraph. In that case, that's plain incorrect (unless Israel would suddently change its name for some reason and they all instantly applied for citizenship).
- Whereas I was talking about the ethnicity/religion sentence of some person in the Early life paragraph. That's quite alright and I think should be mentioned regardless. Many beilieve that early lives and heritage do affect us all, and perhaps that is why it still appears first in any Wikipedia biography across the world. 79.176.85.212 (talk) 18:47, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, the very first mention is where most of the malicious tagging has taken place. It's easy to do drive-by tagging of that kind, and most of the people with bad intent are only concerned with first impressions. Mention in the body of the article is under no such restriction, as long as there is some kind of context, and it's proven difficult for somebody with malicious intent to do much harm in sourced content that isn't obvious vandalism. The "she is Jewish" business that constitutes the suggested sourcing is about as minimal as it can get. The central question is: would a proud Lutheran demand that she be mentioned in that way if she was Lutheran? We get into a lot of issues of systemic bias with things like that. Acroterion (talk) 18:52, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- I understand your debate, mate. Well, as I see it- being comprehensive and reliable goes hand in hand. Let the Lutheran be. (Like one of my favorite actresses Kristen Schaal) 79.176.85.212 (talk) 19:19, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, the very first mention is where most of the malicious tagging has taken place. It's easy to do drive-by tagging of that kind, and most of the people with bad intent are only concerned with first impressions. Mention in the body of the article is under no such restriction, as long as there is some kind of context, and it's proven difficult for somebody with malicious intent to do much harm in sourced content that isn't obvious vandalism. The "she is Jewish" business that constitutes the suggested sourcing is about as minimal as it can get. The central question is: would a proud Lutheran demand that she be mentioned in that way if she was Lutheran? We get into a lot of issues of systemic bias with things like that. Acroterion (talk) 18:52, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- There have been determined attempts to single out Jews as "other", omitting the "Xxxxian" part. Apart from that (and in part because of that), we're very careful not to place greater emphasis on Jewishness than on being, for instance Presbyterian, unless religious identity is a central part of someone's life, and for that we need more sourceable material than mere mention. The manual of style discourages ethnic or religious identity up front in articles unless it's vital, and discourages passing references to someone's religion out of proportion to comparable biographies - we don't see that someone's Catholic unless there's a strong biographical reason to do that. Bouman has been a particular target for trolls, and while I understand the desire to claim her and be damned to the trolls, her article has been a trollfest. Acroterion (talk) 18:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Being Jewish is both an ethnicity and a nationality. As well as a religion. No need to hide it as long as it's correct and adjacent to a reliable source. Acroterion, check my IP geolocation for further insights. 79.176.85.212 (talk) 18:13, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- 2020 has seen a remarkable amount of trolling and tagging of biographies in general as "Jewish-Xxxxian" across the board, as if that's a nationality. I'm an administrator who has blocked many of the trolls and protected articles. Lecturing the editors who have dealt with the disruption on what they ought to do isn't helpful. And leave Anne Frank out of it. Acroterion (talk) 18:06, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
 | This is the discussion page for an IP user, identified by the user's IP address. Many IP addresses change periodically, and are often shared by several users. If you are an IP user, you may create an account or log in to avoid future confusion with other IP users. Registering also hides your IP address. |