Template:Did you know nominations/C. A. Patrides

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PanydThe muffin is not subtle 14:43, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

C. A. Patrides[edit]

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Created/expanded by Kenatipo (talk). Nominated by Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) at 22:02, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


  • This hook is too long. Can you make a shorter, punchier hook that focuses one fact, rather than piling in a whole lot of quotes and unnecessary details? rʨanaɢ (talk) 01:07, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
    The hook has 192 characters, which is less than the 200-character limit.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
    The new version looks better. rʨanaɢ (talk) 20:46, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Informative, but a few quibbles on the style\layout. The quotations in the section headings - hmm. If they were quotes from the subject, I'd be more sympathetic. But I think they should probably go. The infobox on the Greek resistance is also unnecessary. The subject was not a major figure in that dispute, nor was he a soldier by trade. "Infobox bio" would be preferred. More comments to come, The Interior (Talk) 00:20, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

DONE! I revised the article following your suggestions (and expanded the lede).  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 00:37, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Hook fact is verified and interesting. Date and length are good. Online sources checked for copyvio, minor close paraphrase fixed. Article reads well, ready for main page. Apologies to KW and Kenatipo on behalf of the DYK project - sorry a good article sat unreviewed for this long. The Interior (Talk) 01:08, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Close paraphrasing issues remain. Example: "Patrides wrote many pioneering books and articles in his field which remain standard texts" vs "Patrides produced numerous pioneering books and articles which remain standard texts". Nikkimaria (talk) 15:10, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Nikkimaria!
What tool did you use? (I know of a tool for comparing two pages, but not of discovering problematic pages.)
Let me go through and rewrite everything that I did not write or extensively edit. It should take me 20 minutes.
On the first day of his course, Patrides stated "You should pay particular attention to the academic honesty section, and read it carefully at home, for I shall not condescend to discuss it during classtime, so great is my contempt for the plagiarist." Many of his editions state that his annotations are restrained and avoid "the impertinence of paraphrase."  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:39, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Hmm. There's quite a few more - duplication detector picks them up. All from the Bornstein source (note these are from before any re-writing KW has done in the last 30 minutes or so);
(1) Wikipedia: He was a prolific lecturer, nationally and internationally, and inspiring to his students.
Source: ...and was a prolific lecturer both nationally and internationally.
The entire thematic structure of two sentences copied here, with only one little detail added;
(2) Wikipedia: Patrides was born to Greek parents in New York City and grew up there and in Greece. During World War II, he carried messages[2] for the Greek resistance against the German occupation; for this service, he received the Order of Unknown Heroes medal from the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Source: Born in New York of Greek parents, Patrides grew up in that city and in Greece. During World War II he served in the Greek Underground movement against the German occupation and was awarded the Order of Unknown Heroes by His Holiness the Patriarch of Jerusalem.
(3) Wikipedia: After Oxford, he taught at the University of California, Berkeley, until 1964, successively instructor, assistant professor and associate professor.
Source: ...his D. Phil. from Oxford University in 1957. Successively Instructor, Assistant Professor, and Associate Professor at the University of California, Berkeley
Not sure if this one is a problem or not:
(4) Wikipedia: Graduating in 1952, he served in the U.S. Army between 1952 and 1954, earning decorations during his service.
Source: He was also decorated for his service in the U.S. Army between 1952 and 1954.
Given the number of issues with just this one source, I don't think this should be promoted until the offline sources have been checked too. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 16:44, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I numbered Demiurge1000's comments, to allow ease of reference. Please revert if this is a problem. More to come  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:56, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
First, I went through and edited it, removing the previous paraphrase and rewriting everything that I had not written myself, so it would be surprising if paraphrasing remains in the recently redacted sections.
Second, I failed to compare the initial article and Bornstein's piece(s) line by line, and so did not catch the paraphrasing. Thanks, Demiurge1000 and Nikkimaria for the help.
Third, let me address Demiurge1000's specifics. Problem (1) has been fixed by rewriting. (2) I rewrote the Greek wartime stuff in the most economic way, using the titles of Wikipedia articles to minimize surprise; nonetheless, the muse whispered better phrasing in my ear, which I have humbly transcribed to the article. (3) "Successively" is the correct adverb; nonetheless, I deleted the detail about his successive posts to avoid even the appearance of possible paraphrase. (4) Not a problem. My version flows better also; improving phrasing over non-pomo literature professors is a non-trivial accomplishment. ;) The "U.S." specification avoids slight confusion with the Greek resistance; we don't know his specialty in the Army.
Regarding Demiurge1000's conclusion, please check the article history and see that the problems predate my editing, and that I have extensively rewrote and expanded essentially everything since. To appreciate his general conclusion and gain insight into his behavior, please see his contributions to my RfC.  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:09, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
Well, since I've been dropping the ball lately on spotting the c.p.'s, I think it's best if someone else signs off on the rewrite. I might get fired from DYK if NM has to bounce another of my reviews. The Interior (Talk) 20:21, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
You are in too deep to turn back now! ;) You are in danger of going through C.A.P. withdrawal! :D KW
If people can be fired, the payscale needs to increase accordingly :) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:48, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I read the online sources (two memorials and the essay intro). I think it is fine in terms of not being a copyvio. It's pretty heavily cited. And then the sources are intermixed. I didn't run any programs, but didn't not get a "feel" of copyvio. It's definitely DYK pass in length and hook and refs and general shape and all. (This is my first DYK review.)RetiredUser12459780 (talk) 05:39, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
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