Talk:Yolanda Saldívar/Archive 1

Archive 1

Photo of Saldivar

http://www.mugshots.com/Criminal/Killers/Yolanda+Saldivar.htm

I don't know how to add it, but here's the link for anyone who would care to post it.Jlujan69 07:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Behind the Music appearance?

While I hate to further the possible attention hunger of a person like this, the purposes of the encyclopedia dictate that I suggest adding a line or two about her claims in VH1's 1998 profile of Selena in the Behind the Music series. Saldívar claimed early in the program that she would direct her interviewer to secret evidence that would show she was protecting the singer by hiding damaging information. Late in the show, the interviewer visits the indicated site, but finds nothing to support the woman's claims. It's not something I'd want to add just because it's titillating, but because it's informative and was newsworthy at the time. It also tells something about her credibility.Lawikitejana

Bibliography

Many of the articles cited at the end of the Selena article probably belong here as well, or even instead, as they focus on the murder trial and testimony given there. Lawikitejana 19:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Changed Saldivar to Saldívar

The í was inconsequently used throughout the article, so I replaced all occurences of Saldivar with Saldívar. JAL 83.80.81.236 14:57, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Notes on recent copyedit

I am a member of the League of Copyeditors and just completed a copyedit of this article. The "Selena's murder" section had quite sensational language, and I tried to tone that down. It also contained what appear to be irrelevant details that only make the account confused or, once again, sensational. It also needs extensive referencing. Please see my comments in the text and correct as necessary. Thank you! Galena11 18:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all your work. One comment on a source cited that didn't meet the usual standard ... the reason I had included a cite of an MSN Groups item was that the María Celeste Arras interview was mentioned in many places online, but the mentions always seemed to assume that one was familiar with the claims Saldívar made in that interview. The MSN Groups item was the only one I could find that detailed just what YS had said. Naturally, I'd like as much as anyone else to see a better cite for this bit.

Also, as I mentioned in one of my August contributions, there are a LOT of references in the Selena article that could go to this one as well, if someone has the time. I can't, at present, due to having a full-time job that keeps me far busier than I used to be. Lawikitejana 03:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Editorial Tone

IMHO this article seems written more like the narrative of a novel, rather than a cool explanation of the events? A rewriting of it with more of a dispassionate tone would make it read in a more encyclopedic fashion. It seems a bit too dramatic as it reads right now... 134.50.7.201 09:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It verges on the style of something you'd read in Reader's Digest or some trashy Sunday Newspaper Magazine Insert.

"Drenched in blood and wearing a dark green velvet sweatshirt, Selena ran along the side of the motel pool. Behind her was Saldívar with the .38 caliber in the air."

"Selena, bleeding profusely from a bullet wound in her back, ran with all her might, then crawled until she made it inside the motel lobby. In a state of complete shock, she blurted out..."

"The singer, still with the ring clenched in her tight fist, managed with her dying breath to name her assailant."

It amounts to encyclopedic pornography. ~Neil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.248.255 (talk • contribs) 01:26, 23 December 2006

I agree. The structure of the article and the way it reads is unencyclopaedic and contrasts with the style and tone of other Wikipedia articles.--Foetus In Fetu 18:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Saldivar.gif

Image:Saldivar.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Chelsea was here sign your name

BetacommandBot 02:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Accent

Mcmillin24 apparently believes that the stress is on i (ergo, "Saldívar"), but is this actually the case? Should it be Saldivár? --Nlu 07:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I adjusted the article name to accomodate the change made on March 31—I'm not entirely positive where the stress is located. Unfortunately, a Google search just now reveals her name might actually be "Yolanda Saldivar," without any diacritical marks, and the user who made the change months ago may have been incorrect in doing so. McMillin24 ^(talk) 21:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Here's the input of a Spanish teacher with graduate work in the language: If the emphasis were on the final syllable, no written accent would be needed, as this would be in conformation with the rules of Spanish. (With the exception of exclamatory or interrogatory words, written accents on multisyllable words in Spanish are used only to indicate emphases that depart from the basic rules.) For the record, a Google search that showed no accent marks would not be sufficient to show that it should not have a written accent; many online users and sources ignore these special characters. Beyond that, my anecdotal memory from viewing many programs about Selena -- and therefore, for obvious reasons, this woman as well -- is that there was indeed an emphasis on the middle syllable, which would then be written Saldívar.Lawikitejana 19:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what the actual pronunciation should be, but in the movie they say "Sáldivar." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.208.244 (talk) 04:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

'The murder' section

This section could use a rewrite or expansion - at the moment, it has a serious lack of context. For example, it doesn't state that Saldivar was the president of Selena's fan club, or that she was embezzling money from Selena's boutiques; it doesn't explain in any way how they knew each other before the murder. Was an earlier section deleted, or has the article always looked like this? Whichever it is, it needs to be expanded with more information. Terraxos (talk) 23:14, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Looking through the history, my suspicions were right - the earlier first section, about Saldivar's work for Selena's company, was deleted by User:Agentbla on October 24 as a copyright violation. That was the right thing to do, but it left this article with a large part missing - is anyone prepared to rewrite that section in their own words, so the information can be restored? Terraxos (talk) 23:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Embezzlement

Can someone put in the article whether Saldivar was ever convicted of embezzlement, or that she wasn't? It's not really mentioned.
Razor Rozar7 (talk) 18:56, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Parole or no?

This article indicates parole eligibility at 30 years, Selena's article says no possibility of parole. Which is correct?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.183.121.1 (talk • contribs) 18:44, 21 March 2005

At the time of her conviction, there was no sentance in Texas for life without parole. All persons convicted and sentenced to "life" were eligible for parole after 30 years. The law has since changed allowing for a sentence of life without parole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.124.104.190 (talk) 10:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Incoherent Article

What in the world is wrong with you folks? This is probably the worst article I have ever seen on Wikipedia. It reads about the same way a four-year-old would tell a story: choppy, new ideas right in the middle of another without appropriate introduction, jumping back and forth between themes/subjects and no apparent arc.

So fix it. 76.110.82.251 (talk) 19:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Surprising duration of popular hatred

The death was 13 years ago yet Selena is still the first page result on Google and Youtube. The comments about Saldivar keep pouring in, many with apparent threats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R7QO1lO_9I Ykral (talk) 03:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

date

So does 1995 refer to Selena's death or Saldivar's conviction? Selena did die in 1994. -- Zoe 20:27, 6 April 2003

Saldivar's conviction and Selena's death happend in the same year (Saldivar's conviction happend only 4 months 23 days after Selena's death March 31).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.153.7.94 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 26 March 2006

Why is there a date listed as September 31 in this article with regards to the escape of Selena's killer?

I have looked all around and have not found any truth in the thought that Yolanda escaped66.30.108.190 (talk) 15:27, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Section removed

I removed the section that purports to describe the murder and its immediate aftermath. It was completely unsourced, and as such violates the policy on articles about living persons. The material may be restored if it is verified with reliable sources. Mr. Darcy talk 23:53, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I did my best

I tried to clean up the article the best I could. I just basically worked with the facts that were already there, but I don't know how much of that information is correct. Chexmix53 (talk) 02:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

just FYI this is in the last section: "well wat this lady did was that she killed the most perfect thing in every bodys life she deserves to be killed she should of killed her dayumm self instead of killin selena Yolanda Saldívar is not related to serial killer Efren Saldivar.

well this be jazlyn again this lady is a serial killer she killed somebody importanat to us". Please delete. AO —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.187.179.234 (talk) 18:48, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Just a thought.

This article seems to be written by a bunch of emotional Mexicans. No doubt murder is bad, but please, stop sounding so biased when writing this. This is an encyclopedia not an opinion page of the Caller-Times. Start using some sources. --garzj019 20070722PST2206

I think that is a little unfair. It may very well be written by her "emotional" fans. But take nationality out of it. You sound accusatory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.208.244 (talk) 04:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Shut the fuck up, not only Mexicans like her but I'm not Mexican and I love Selena ok so deal with it HAHA 70.119.49.237 (talk) 23:29, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

its amazing she still inspires people and is an inspiration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.161.59.168 (talk) 00:26, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

What's a .38 caliber 5 ?

Anyone know what "a .38 caliber 5" is? It doesn't make sense to me but I didn't want to change it without some consensus. Also, that sentence was added without a reference, and none of the other references in the page appear to mention the 11 pounds of pressure etc... RobI (talk) 15:57, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

The article is currently under construction. I'll be expanding the article, however, I never heard of a .38 caliber 5 pistol before. Sources indicates that Saldivar used a .38 caliber revolver. AJona1992 (talk) 22:42, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

At some point someone has corrected this to .38 caliber 5-shot revolver, which at least makes sense. Winter Maiden (talk) 09:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Progress of article

The article was reasonably encyclopedic back in Jan 2007; recently it seems to have turned into a tabloid piece (again). The article needs to be totaly copyedited, removing trivia, unsourced material, and bias, as per the WP:MOS. At this point, I think a major revert might be the best first step, but would like to hear from other editors, as to which version to go back to. Also, there's some gnomish work that needs preserving, e.g. updates to categories.Studerby 03:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how far back we need to go, but with that said, I agree completely. In addition to the problems you mention, there are basic errors such as lack of capitalization of month names (standard in English, not Spanish, which may be the source of the problem) as well as long stretches that are plugged in wholesale from specific books. I'll look and see if this has a copyediting tag and if not, I'll put one. I hate YS as much as the people doing the vandalism, but I care about Wikipedia's accomplishing its mission.Lawikitejana 14:52, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I have not added anything to this article, but I have gone through it cleaning up the style, which was very bad and included awkward phrases and repetition, as well as stylistic errors. It is still missing an account of the murder itself. Winter Maiden (talk) 09:36, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Saldivar's changing story

I have watched this page for several years. Yes it was poorly written and the murder sensationalized. Another pattern is that Saldivar's story has changed over time. In the beginning they simply tried to discredit Selena due to the clothing she wore. Then the story became that she had an affiar, and finally that Saldivar was someone that Selena respected like a mother. This story that Yolanda has fabricated has grown over time and every time I have checked the page or others, over the years the story has grown in saliciousness. 69.137.150.35 (talk) 11:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Please be bold and edit the article with sources to make it better. Best, Jona^{talk to me} 14:20, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Chapman reference removed

The reference to "another deranged" killer is factually inaccurate. Saldivar was found competent to stand trial and found guilty, not "deranged." Mark Chapman pled guilty and was found competent to do so by the judge presiding over his case. Nicmart (talk) 21:38, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Disputing the Factuality of this Article

The part where it mentions Yolanda Saldivar's signed confession has a lot of discrepencies in the dates, most of which indicates events taking place in 2005 as opposed to 1995 or an earlier date.

Secondly I question the authency of the statements made in the confession statement as it is not consistent with the rest of the article. For example, the statement indicates or implies that Yolanda Saldivar got into her truck and drove off soon after the shooting, whereas the rest of the article seems to indicate that she chased after Selena and calling her a "bitch". Which is the true account of the event and where there any whitnesses to this? This whole section needs a citation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.216.100.110 (talk • contribs) 09:13, 19 July 2007

She chased Selena and then she got into her truck. She didn't drive anywhere. These are basic facts that are known as true, however the confusion probably comes from people skipping details when they report it here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:5B0:21FF:CF0:0:0:0:39 (talk) 21:38, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

Italic textthis statement should say that she should die in jail for killing someone else!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.126.70 (talk) 22:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Death hoax

Because bad data has been added to the article several times in the past couple of days, I'm just going to leave this here: as of 17 August 2015, according to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, reports that Saldivar died in her prison cell are not true. —ATinySliver/^ATalkPage 🖖 22:15, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

BLP1E concerns: Merge

This subject appears to be notable for one event, and one event only, the murder of Selena and the trial that followed. Is there any evidence that this person is notable for anything else? If not, I would like to propose that we merge and redirect this to Trial of Yolanda Saldívar. I intend to leave this question open for discussion for the next few weeks and welcome feedback from the community. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 19:12, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

@Yamaguchi先生: I am inclined to support a merger, based on the WP:BLP1E concerns. I've gone ahead and added a {{merge from}} tag to Trial of Yolanda Saldívar as well, to hopefully generate some more discussion on this... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:53, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose - She has been found guilty of probably one of the most notable "celebrity murders" of all times. Her case has been brought up several times during the last 20 years. ONEEVENT does not apply here. And the articles should definitely not be merged together.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:12, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
• I also think it should be supported. She is only famous for the murder nothing else. Heck she doesn't even deserve one page let alone two! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:F140:400:A004:594F:7CA1:D986:635B (talk) 01:16, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Very weak oppose - Her life of crimes preceded the murder of Selena. She had two cases against her: one for embezzlement from her former job and one for her student loans which were handled out of court before 1989. She also gained some media attention after she was planning on marrying another convicted killer within a few years of her conviction. These claims can be found in Joe Nick Patoski's 1996 Como la Flor book, and her life was further explored in María Celeste Arrarás's 1997 Selena's Secret. Aside from her laundry list of accusations she had against Selena, she continues to seek retrial. Also, someone nominated the article for a WP:TAFI project so within due time the article would be updated by them. Best, – jona ✉ 18:35, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support Merge or Merge to Selena: Only notability is on the trial. The trial page covered enough information. I also don't have a problem with the merger going to Selena's page herself. Tibbydibby (talk) 02:20, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

• The problem with that argument is that Yolanda herself has been mentioned plenty of times in media. It isnt the murder of Selena itself, but Yolanda in particular. This person clearly is beyond ONEEVENT. ONEEVENT implies that she was only mentioned straight after her murder and never again in any other matter, and that is incorrect.BabbaQ (talk) 21:20, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

• Support Merge or Merge to Selena: Her history in crime is not the business of the American public, and therefore does not make her notable, especially as the crime was notable to her family and personal affairs. Well except that it shows that she had motive and background to rob and kill. That's it. If she hadn't murdered anyone and had not murdered a celebrity then her past would not matter to the public. 2601:14B:4401:D5C0:88AA:1AE3:62EF:1ADF (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:53, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

• That is an irrelevant IDONTLIKEIT rationale. It has no baring with Wikipedia guidelines.BabbaQ (talk) 21:38, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

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Can we get a Picture?

I'd think there would be a free and legit-for-wiki pic out there somewhere. And please, lets type 4 tildes ~~~~ as a signature after we comment. L3X1 My Complaint Desk 21:40, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Dubious declaration

The current version of the article states

The gun, a .38 caliber Taurus Model 85 revolver, required 11 pounds of pressure on the trigger to fire, which can occur only when the trigger is intentionally pulled.

Very hard to see how this is an NPOV statement (there is not even a citation). What pressure constitutes an intentional firing is a highly subjective judgement (I think a lot of people would say there is no such thing). It would be far more appropriate to say something like "The prosecution argued that ..." or some such thing.

- MC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.131.2.3 (talk) 22:15, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

The only reference I could find was when a prosecution witness allegedly said it would take "a great amount of pressure", and that was an uncited quote in Trial of Yolanda Saldívar. It does sound a bit peacock, doesn't it?  — Myk Streja ^(what?) 03:38, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Right. Though in general I would tend to think the argument somewhat makes sense, you cannot state such a damning thing as fact unless you can show there is some kind of scientific consensus that this is indeed true (and I guarantee that is not the case). This is the sort of statement where it is only appropriate to put in as a quote of somebody involved with the case or else you just need to leave it out. -- MC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.131.2.3 (talk) 22:17, 7 July 2017 (UTC)

Death announcement

Once again social media (such a reliable source) is buzzing about Yolanda's death. Guess what? It's not true, or maybe it should be said that it's a lie. See this item: Selena Quintanilla's killer is alive, Texas official says. Seems that once again Yolanda has cheated death.  — Myk Streja ^(when?) 21:53, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

eligible for parole in 2025

http://www.cnn.com/US/9510/selena/10-26/index.html—Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee78221 (talk • contribs) 23:37, 25 March 2006

Will they let her out of prison on the parole date? Bolden1960 (talk) 20:51, 19 April 2018 (UTC)