Talk:Yaşar Büyükanıt

POV tag

I am sorry that I had to insert a POV-tag. I belive the article can become NPOV through reformaulations. We cannot have a biography of a controversial person to look as a fan site. For instance it says now "he has come to be known as a successful commander, easily mixing with the population and with a keen eye for the region's problems". And the article about the controversy about his involvment in the Semdinli affair is basically an attempt to defense his actions with value ladden formulations. Bertilvidet 14:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with the addition you have made, it is sourced, as are mine, we although I would have preferred a formulation like "there has been a recent campaign possibly aimed at...". We can replace the "keen eye..." with something else if you want, "actively involved..." or something like that. I tried to draw the triangle in the paragraph on recent actuality, I could even a draw a rectangle, extending it to a probable tug-of-war, a bargaining for having Erbakan spend his sentence at home, but it would have sounded speculative. The article is fine with me as it is, with the above suggestions. Regards. --Cretanforever 14:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Objectiveness Required

I wonder why topics related with Turks and Turkey are always tried to be disputed. There is reason to believe that in this case, Yasar Buyukanit's secularist and patriotic nature disturbs somebody

=> What disturbs people is that he is involved in state terrorism (semdinli affair) and that the Turkish army interferes in political affairs. do you think a coup d'etat is normal, and that the military should be allowed to remove governments ? Or is it "not done" to talk about these issues ? Some comments give me the impression that some people almost worship the military leaders, like "our beloved general". Is that considered "neutral point of view" ?

Expecting a Successful Era

I hope the beloved general of the nation, Yaşar Büyükanıt Pasha, can lead Turkey to a powerful position in the world arena. With respect, Deliogul 23:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

aha Bertilvidet 23:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

what is so funny?? Pls dont have this orientalist view.. Baristarim 00:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Nothing is funny, the aha is an ascertainment as I don't think this page is appropriate for discussing personal views of the general. Retrospectively I must admit that the comment indeed is open to many interpretations ;-) Bertilvidet 08:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia rules

Thank you for your citation request for the edits of your reversed changes. It was in a columnist's article as the statement by Mr Demirel upon a question during a ceremony, published in either Hurriyet or Milliyet in the last few days and I am sure you can look it up in their online archieves in Turkish. The citation is not necessary for the article although I would be happy to add it in here in due course when I have time to dig it out. I am removing your citation demand if you dont mind. Thanks.

• You can go ahead an remove it, but to tell the truth I couldn't find in Hurriyet's archive (and Milliyet asked for membership).

Please try to include the link as well next time.

Best wishes... -124.128 blah blah :) -

Also, please re-read, hopefully more carefully, the below guidance, without trying to be obnoxious.

Entries by 24.128.249.120 are moved below to note his comments. These do not belong to the biography page because they are not factual biographic information but expression of debatable opinions written for commercial gain and popular news which are outside the realm of Wikipedia philosophies as well as the content violoating the Neutral Point of View principles. Feel free to use them at Wikinews site which was just designed for that purpose.

He was criticized and warned by several media figures for the talk had indicated an obvious military intervention in Turkish politics, stated as "army's role in politics." It should be noted that, for some, the speech was not as harsh as it was expected to be.

Sarah Rainsford, BBC's correspondent to Istanbul, says "the powerful military is making its position abundantly clear ahead of presidential elections next May, which it fears may be won by the current Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan."

According to Milliyet columnist Sami Kohen, EU will be not be pleased with this speech, as European officials and journalists previously had the impression that Turkish Army was intervening in politics. .

Military's mission is to defend the nation and sadly thesedays many people see Erdoğan and his party as a threat for the secular republic. In my opinion, really someone must defends us from the government. With respect, Deliogul 23:09, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

That degrades Turkey to the level of a Banana republic. The army should be loyal to the government, not the other way around.

References

Answer from 24.128.249.120

If what you have said (quotes as violating NPOV) is true, I would argue that the same thing is true for your quote from Demirel and somebody else's (I don't know who yet, bc the last changes can't be seen in the "history" section) quote from Olli Rehn as well.

As long as the resources are trustworthy, and balance is maintained between different POV's, I think the comments/quotes should be kept.

As far as I am concerned (with articles like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladio) it's totally fine, in Wikipedia, to use quotations from media figures provided that the sources are given and quotes aren't used out of context.

Please do not hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong with this.

Regards... 24.128.249.120

Quote Requested : Tufan Turenc 2 Ekim Hurriyet http://hurarsiv.hurriyet.com.tr/goster/haber.aspx?id=5183344&yazarid=39

Thanks for the quote (I'd thought that Demirel's comment was upon the talk on Oct 2nd. Now, I realized that this was about the previous talks by other generals. But, it still "counts." :) )

BTW, I have included the point made by BBC correspondant to Istanbul and a (Hurriyet) columnist as well, which could be found in the following pages:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5398842.stm http://hurarsiv.hurriyet.com.tr/goster/haber.aspx?id=5184917&yazarid=131

Let's not make this a newspaper

People, please refrain from adding every speech that he has done and every reply that he has received... Because in that case that list can go forever, to the recent addition of Olli Rehn's comments I can also add his response etc.. I am already not too happy with the fact that we have included a crackpot islamist conspiracy theory in the article, but this is getting too much. Instead of just listing every single newspaper article on him, try to phrase them in a short concise paragraph by synthesing them.. It has really become a news blog on Yasar Buyukanit :))).. Baristarim 07:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

That is right. However the speech and its reactions might deserve a little sentence - lets fix that in some days when there not continously will come more material that can be added. Bertilvidet 09:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I completely disagree with Baristarim. The so-called e-coup d'état, and its possible ramifications now that Abdullah Gül has assumed the presidency, is probably the number one reason why people would come visiting Büyükanıt's page in the first place. The Turkish military is partly a political institution, as well as a security force. It seems positively obscurantist to omit all references to Büyükanıt's political stances... 85.99.106.127 10:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

rewrite

At the moment it is a copy of his bio on the TSK webpage. We should rephrase things, and add more sources. Deniz^T_C 03:47, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

As luck would have it, I'd been preparing a facelift for the 'political controversy' section deleted last year. I've now expanded and rehabilitated this section a bit. The dönme allegations issue is of no interest to me, but I suppose some readers might care about it one way or the other. I agree with Deniz, the biography section must be rewritten to avoid plagiarism and use the TSK site as one source among others. Q·L·1968 ☿ 13:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Done. E104421 14:29, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

E104421, I don't get the point with your edit summary. Please be more clear, about your edit, and mention which parts of the previous version failed WP:BLP. Thanks. Are you claiming that the Middle East Research Unit is non-reliable? Deniz^T_C 02:52, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. We're now back to a plagiarized biography and a censored politics section. This solves nothing. Think of it this way, why would most users want to read an article on General Büyükanıt? Could it be because he's at the centre of ongoing controversy concerning the future of Turkey ... or do they merely want to find out about his medals? Q·L·1968 ☿ 08:12, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you both missed the discussion "Let's not make this a newspaper" above. Wikipedia is not a place for speculative original research. Middle East Research Unit is a project to translate the newspapers from the Middle East region. On the other hand, newspapers are not generally considered as reliable sources. Of course, there are world-wide recognized ones but it's always better to rely upon academical or encyclopedic sources. The article should be rewritten if there is a copy-vio or plagiarizm but removing the content in favor of the speculative one as User:QuartierLatin1968 calls it "what most users want to read" would make it even worse. This is a biographical article not the one discussing the Politics of Turkey. As already mentioned in the warning tag at the top of the discussion page: "This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous", i'm in favor of keeping the current content but with better wording and sources. Regards. E104421 09:31, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Certainly Hürriyet and Cumhuriyet (also Akşam) are reliable. If you want to, we can find the original versions to check whether they are any different than the originals in Turkish. I don't see the point with deleting them. 20:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I didn't miss the discussion, but I disagree with it. Wikipedia should describe controversies, with proper attribution – not cover them up. General Büyükanıt is probably the third or fourth most important political figure in Turkey today. This is why he's worth writing about – not because he graduated from the Turkish Military Academy or has an Italian medal. Don't be offended if I ask you a direct question, E104421: have you looked at his TSK biography? Word for word, paragraph for paragraph, it's the same. Now, I don't know what the TSK's copyright policy is; perhaps materials produced by the Turkish state is in public domain, just as in the US. But unless we know that that's true, I have half a mind to slap a {{copyvio}} template on this article, if the biography keeps reproducing the TSK version longhand. All the best, Q·L·1968 ☿ 08:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Huh, TSK biography is exactly the same, but I guess it's in public domain, so there won't be any copy-vio. The Turkish version of it appeared in the news before. Anyways, the bio should be rewritten if there is a copyright issue. The Wikipedia:Guidelines for controversial articles do not include biographies of living persons. For this reason, it's better to mention the controversies in the Politics of Turkey article. Actually, it's already mentioned but briefly in the article. Regards. E104421 12:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

No need to risk (guess?), just rephrase, and try to find other sources. We should not fall victim to WP:Recentism either (think about how a wiki reader not just now but also in the future would expect to see), but some mention is necessary imo. I think the wiki readers even now would probably come here for his position rather than the controversies, until a new controversy is created (by Büyükanıt or by local/foreign media). Deniz^T_C 20:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

the best general of the world —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.62.225.202 (talk) 16:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

We shouldn't assume at all that this is public domain unless it explicitly says so. Considering NATO's Media Library states that for all photo and video "NATO has sole copyright" I would assume they retain the copyright for all text as well. All the information can stay, but the current article should be rewritten immediately. Joshdboz 23:36, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Shame on the writers of the official biography of general. It is a CUT and PASTE from offcial pages. 3 contraversies shall be discussed at least. Semdinli affair, praisal of the action to make a turkish flag using their own blood by youngsters , secret talk with erdogan in Dolmabahce. Without these, this article worth NOTHING —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.94.185.201 (talk) 11:48, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

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