Talk:William Congreve

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Breast or Beast[edit]

I think the controversy regarding the correct wording of his most famous line (is it "savage breast" or "savage beast") is merited. Mal7798 14:02, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(the above moved from Talk:William Congreve (disambiguation)) (John User:Jwy talk) 16:18, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no controversy at all. One need only pick up any published version of this work. It is "Breast." Here is one example available from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Mourning-Bride-William-Congreve-ebook/dp/B00TRX6G3Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455587693&sr=8-2&keywords=mourning+bride 6StringJazzer (talk) 01:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it has been pointed out that "savage" here means "ferine", or "of wild animals". Both adjective and noun could refer to animals at that time. The allusion, taken with the following line, and reading "breast" of course,″ is to the three miracles of Orpheus, who could make beasts, trees and rocks follow him when he played his lute. It does not mean that music can soothe a person's anger. Unfortunately, English scholars tend to miss points like this, since they often lack the linguistic training that classical scholars have. Sorry for the OR. (talk) 21:30, 30 June 2019 (UTC) Seadowns (talk) 12:38, 4 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Modern vs. Period English Language[edit]

Spellings and capitalization vary elsewhere on the internet. Some differences are: music/Musick, has/hath, soothe/sooth, breast/Breast, etc. Recommendation: use the original spelling and capitalization as penned by Congreve since most people will understand and optionally add a footnote or parenthetical alternative in modern English if needed.

Hell hath no fury - I thought it was from Shakespeare[edit]

"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" - they always taught us it was from William Shakespeare! 93.219.142.144 (talk) 06:29, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And they taught you wrong, I'm afraid. This line is frequently and widely attributed to Shakespeare, but that is wrong. BabelStone (talk) 13:41, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Place & Date of Birth[edit]

It is generally understood that William Congreve was born in Cork, Ireland where his father was working and that he was not born in Yorkshire as he claimed.

It is also believed that he was born in 1672 and not in 1670.

An interesting link regarding this is www.irishwriters-online.com/congrege-william/

I suggest that perhaps the article should be amended to reflect the doubt regarding his place and date of birth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beanneadair (talk • contribs) 12:53, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That page simply states that he "was born in 1672, not 1670 and not at Bardsley, near Leeds in England, as he claimed" without giving any evidence or citing any source. I have done a Google Books search and I cannot find any source that corroborates the doubts about his place and date of birth. I don't think we can add this to the article unless there is a reliable source to back it up. BabelStone (talk) 16:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. I raised the point as all my life I understood he was Anglo-Irish (born in Ireland but of English ethnicity) and when I read in Wiki that he was from Yorkshire I was stunned. In Ireland and particularly in Cork where he was probably born, it is taken as a given fact that he is a Corkman. Thank you for taking the time to check other sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beanneadair (talk • contribs) 16:34, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Upon further investigation, it seems that Samuel Johnson doubted Congreve's claim to have been born in Bardsey, Yorkshire ("Neither the time nor place of his birth are certainly known; if the inscription upon his monument be true, he was born in 1672. For the place; it was said by himself, that he owed his nativity to England, and by every body else that he was born in Ireland."), and berated him for disowning his native country (see here). However, Edmond Malone later found a baptism entry for Congreve in the Register of Bardsey, in the West Riding of York that would seem to prove that he was not lying when he said he was born in England: "William, the sonne of Mr. William Congreve, of Bardsey grange, was baptised Feb. 10, 1669 [i.e. 1670 by the modern reckoning of the new year]" (see here and here). I suspect that Samuel Johnson is to blame for the continuing belief amongst some that he was born in Ireland. I think it is worth adding a note about this to the article. BabelStone (talk) 13:14, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have now added such a note. BabelStone (talk) 13:35, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]