Talk:Wilbur Wood/GA2

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Go Phightins! (talk · contribs) 21:52, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. It may take me a few days, but I'll work on this review. Go Phightins! 21:52, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
A few areas could be smoothed out, and I'll try to point those out in a forthcoming prose review. Overall, though, these criteria are within striking distance.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
Draws on an impressive range of scholarly/journalistic sources, all of which are squarely reliable.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Going to see if there are any opportunities to condense because it is a tad long, though that is not, in itself, a problem from either a GA criteria perspective or an MOS perspective.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
Not seeing or anticipating any issues here, but I'll read for this when I do a prose review.
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
No concerns here.
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
No concerns here. Could take or leave the ballpark photo, but that has no bearing on whether the article meets the GA criteria.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

General comments from the outset[edit]

I've had a look at the first GA review and will draw on some of that here. I tend, initially, to try to group comments thematically rather than by section, which maybe isn't the easiest to follow, but it's how I tend to think? If it proves annoying, let me know and I can try to group them chronologically. I'll take a swing through the article at the end to comment on prose, but I try to focus on criteria-specific stuff first.

References

Starting here, but off the bat, I see no major concerns. Just a few suggestions (and note ref numbers refer to this version):

Ref 2: Can we link SABR on first reference? Or spell it out?
Refs 3 and 4: Can you standardize how the title appears? Namely the capitalization? I think the first one should just read "Stats"?
Maybe link Baseball-Reference.com on first reference? Same with Sports Illustrated?
Perhaps not required, but probably worth listing AP in the "agency" field when the Google News Archive sources mention it (e.g., refs. 51, 57, and 73)?
Ref 66: No particular referencing style is required, but this one looks inconsistent relative to some of the others? Possible to redo with the "cite book" template so author names appear first?
Ref 105: Can you please add location of the newspaper since it's not obvious from the title (which, per Google News, appears to be Clinton, Iowa)?

General shape of the article (i.e. focus, length, relative weight, etc.)

On the highlights section, I was just wondering how you determined those items for inclusion. I know what we have here pertains to infoboxes ... I am not suggesting anything that's there shouldn't be; I just wanted to wrap my head around your process. For example, I know games started is not something that is on that list, but given that it fits the broader arc of the article's narrative, I don't mind it being there. Also, regarding that style advice, the Fireman award is a precursor to Rolaids Relief, right?
- The highlights section was actually already there before I started the article. I figured I'd leave it in, making sure everything was cited, but it's not my contribution; some other editor made all those decisions. Willing to make any changes you might suggest for this section. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 14:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, also (I had to look this up too!), the Fireman Award predated the Rolaids Relief Award in its creation, but it was a separate award that continued to be given out simultaneously with the Rolaids Relief one. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 16:25, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The pitching style section seems very heavy on quotes/external evaluations to me and, overall, seems a bit long. I'll circle back to that in a more detailed prose review later. That said, in this section, I wouldn't mind a brief description of who some of these appraisers are (e.g., the people in paragraph three).
- This is definitely the longest pitching style section I've ever written. There a couple of reasons for this, though: 1) the knuckleball is an unusual pitch that generates more media coverage than others and 2) there was a very good article about Wood in Sports Illustrated detailing how he throws the pitch. That said, we probably could take out some of the external evaluations if necessary. I think they add a lot to the article, but if length is a problem, I totally understand. I'd be happy to add brief descriptions too, but will wait to see your further comments on this section. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 16:22, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not too invested in this, but I do wonder if there ought to be a professional career section with the teams and the career statistics parts as subsections within that broader section?
- A lot of articles do it the way you say. Happy to change it! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 16:26, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of the lede, it is a touch on the longer side, but it doesn't violate MOS:LEADLENGTH. My only suggestions for what might be trimmed are:

Maybe height and weight could be omitted? (Also, in any case, we probably should come up with a less jargony phrase than "was listed at XXX pounds" ... it's probably not obvious to folks that means on the team roster).
Entering the 1971 season, the White Sox had been attempting to trade Wood could probably be shortened to The White Sox tried to trade would before the 1971 season, but XXX".
This is more about prose than length, but I think this sentence During the year, pitching coach Johnny Sain suggested that he pitch with only two days' rest in between, since knuckleball specialists do not put as much stress on their arms as other pitchers. would read better as That season, Wood's pitching coach suggested that he pitch with only two days' rest between starts, since knuckleball specialists do not put as much stress on their arms as other pitchers.
He underwent months of rehabilitation, returning in April of 1977, though, as he put it, he was somewhat "gun-shy" upon his return.[1] After posting the worst earned run average among qualifying AL pitchers in 1978 (5.20), he retired. could probably be condensed to After months of rehabilitation, Wood remained "gun-shy" upon his return and posted the worst earned run average among qualifying AL pitchers in 1978 (5.20). He retired after the season. (One general comment is that there are a lot of long sentences that sometimes could be broken up to allow easier flow.)

- Made specific changes and also broke up a couple of the longer sentences. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 16:34, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Miscellaneous content comments

I'll do a section-by-section prose review in the coming days, but I don't have any concerns from an NPOV perspective or a writing quality perspective. I also don't note any original research, though I'll do a few source spot checks at some point.

Overall thoughts as of 2 June 2021

This is a well-researched and largely well-written article. I think the issues that do exist can almost certainly be worked out in the coming several days/week or two. Let me know your thoughts on round one of comments, and we can proceed from there. Go Phightins! 23:04, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Addressed everything listed so far. Look forward to seeing your further comments! Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 22:49, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

General prose review[edit]

Lede[edit]

In 1968, he set a record (broken the next year) with 88 games pitched, getting named the Sporting News American League (AL) Fireman of the Year. --> In 1968, he set a record (broken the next year) with 88 games pitched and was named the Sporting News American League (AL) Fireman of the Year.
Link relief pitcher on first reference?
A line drive off the bat of Ron LeFlore fractured his kneecap in a game against the Detroit Tigers. Any way to rephrase this so the "his" unambiguously refers to Wood? I think people should know what this means, but technically the pronoun is a bit ambiguous.
Perhaps add a sentence about his personal life?

Early life[edit]

Wood attended Belmont High School, where he played in three different sports as a pitcher in baseball, the starting quarterback in football, and a defenseman in hockey. Perhaps add a colon after "sports"? Feels a little awkward without some kind of punctuation there ...
As a general comment, I wonder whether it would be best to take some of these SABR references—particularly of quotes—and link to the original source, such as the Boston Globe for that 1989 quote? Helping readers find the original source generally seems consistent with WP:V. If it doesn't exist in Google News or in another readily accessible archive, then I suppose it doesn't matter as much and we are AGF-ing on SABR as a reliable source (which, of course, I think it is).
- That's a good idea. I do that sometimes anyway to show the breadth of research that has gone into the article. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 01:29, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Professional career[edit]

He won his only decision in four games with the club, posting a 2.70 earned run average (ERA) before getting promoted to the Raleigh Capitals of the Class B Carolina League. Is there anything in the glossary of baseball terms that would explain "decision"? It's a bit jargony for a non-baseball reader.
Sent to the Class B Winston-Salem Red Sox to begin the season... Just want to clarify here: did the Red Sox' class B affiliate change? I know the Carolina League was (until last year) Class A, but in the previous sentence of the article, we refer to a different Class B affiliate. Did they have more than one at the time? I know that minor league baseball has reshuffled its classifications over the years, but just wanted to make sure this is right.
- Yes, it looks like their affiliate changed. The Raleigh affiliation was just 1958-60. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:39, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So weird that the Red Sox had a Triple-A affiliate in Washington.
he was given his outright release to Seattle ... not sure I understand what this means. Is this the modern equivalent of being outrighted off the roster? Maybe it would be a little clearer to say he was demoted?
"You either throw the knuckleball all of the time or not at all. It’s not an extra pitch," he said. Is the "he" here Wilhelm?
With the White Sox, Wood became well known as a durable workhorse, and one of the last pitchers to consistently throw well over 300 innings in a season. --> With the White Sox, Wood became well known as a durable workhorse and was among the last pitchers to consistently throw well over 300 innings in a season.
Entering the 1971 season, Wood was poised to be a reliever again, but he was added to the rotation on the final day of spring training after Joe Horlen broke his leg. Perhaps add "starting" before rotation just to be a twinge less jargon-y?
He ranked among the AL leaders with 22 wins (third, behind Lolich's 25 and Vida Blue's 24), a 1.91 ERA (second only to Blue's 1.82), 210 strikeouts (fifth), 22 complete games (third, behind Lolich's 29 and Blue's 24), and seven shutouts (tied with Mel Stottlemyre for second behind Blue's eight). Wondering whether it's necessary to include who he was behind? Seems like it's a bit of needless detail that, in a long article like this one, could be trimmed?
- If they're fourth or higher, I like to include who else was above them. Helps put their accomplishment in perspective. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:42, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  Fair enough. Go Phightins! 22:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Facing Ryan in a matchup that pitted one of baseball's hardest thrower's versus one of baseball's slowest on May 24, 1973, ... The juxtaposition here doesn't seem quite right ... either Ryan should be the "fastest" or Wood should be the "softest," no?
Wood started consecutive games for the White Sox in 1976, pitching in their ninth game on April 23 and their 10th game five days later, though he lost both of them. Seems a little non-notable that they were consecutive games if they were five days apart? Maybe just condense to say he lost his first two starts?
- Starting consecutive games is a very rare feat. Even as non-dramatic as it is coming five days apart, it's definitely something that should be mentioned. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:44, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  Fair enough. Go Phightins! 22:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
However, he showed few signs of his former mastery. This phrase seems a little weird to me. Maybe something like "he struggled to find his footing" or "struggled to return to form" or something? I don't know. It's not a big deal ... I just stopped on that sentence and read it a couple times and it seemed a little "off." Could just be me.

Career statistics[edit]

After receiving just 3.1% of the vote in 1989, he never appeared on a ballot again. Maybe clarify that once you fall below the 5% threshold, you're out?

Pitching style[edit]

Sain said, "Wilbur has tremendous poise. He has the perfect temperament [and] never gets rattled." Could you reintroduce who "Sain" is? I'd forgotten by this point.
"The release, you see, is everything," Wood described how to throw the knuckleball. ---> "The release, you see, is everything," Wood said as he described how to throw the knuckleball. (or "in describing how to throw the knuckleball" or something similar)
"I guess they always said, ‘Poor Wilbur, he just doesn’t have enough natural ability to pitch in the big leagues,’” Sain remembered Wood's trouble with the fastball. Same problem here, I think, just in terms of what comes after the quote. It just feels rather run-on-ey or disjointed to me. (Same deal in the next sentence with Tenace and, later in the paragraph, with Blair ... all would be improved as "so and so said as they XXX [what is already there]").
Maybe omit the paragraph about catchers? It's interesting, but not sure it fits in a biography about Wood? (Actually, perhaps relocate to the knuckleball article?)
- I think it should be in the Wood article because it describes his effect on the team. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:50, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  OK. Maybe worth adding something to the knuckleball article too, though. Go Phightins! 22:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life[edit]

Wendy received top ranking in the 18's category ... no apostrophe needed there, I don't think? The number 18 isn't possessing anything.
In 1991, Wood remarried to Janet. Was there a divorce in there or something? Also, do we know Janet's maiden name for consistency with the opening to this section?
- I couldn't find any articles about a divorce, nor could I find Janet's maiden name. There likely was one, but absent a source, we shouldn't mention that there was. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 11:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  Did a little bit of digging myself and came up empty too. Perhaps in an obituary someday that will be made more clear. (Not that I'm hoping that comes anytime soon). Go Phightins! 22:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Soft-spoken, he had a sense of humor he would display around teammates. Hailing from New England, Wood talks with a distinct Boston accent. These two sentences potentially could be combined. Not necessarily necessary, just a thought.

General comments[edit]

Perhaps my least favorite part of the MOS is MOS:LQ, which says that punctuation is supposed to be outside the quotation marks unless it's inside in the original source. This article does it consistently the other way, I think, and I'm not inclined to hold it up over that alone since it's consistent, but if you ever go the FA route, that'd be something to work through, I suppose.
This is a really interesting biography about a pitcher I don't know that I'd ever heard of.

Passing[edit]

I am now comfortable this meets the GA criteria. Well done, as usual! Go Phightins! 22:06, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]