Talk:Wenatchee child abuse prosecutions

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Consequences[edit]

Have the perpetrators of this crime against so many people ever been prosecuted for their actions and their utter failure to use common sense? Who knows more about this? -- Fyslee / talk 18:30, 11 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Stop mind control and Abuse[edit]

The term "convenience link" is typically used to indicate a link to a copy of a resource somewhere on the Internet, offered in addition to a formal citation to the same resource in its original format. Such links are unique in how reliability is applied. It is important to ensure that the copy being linked is a true copy of the original, without any comments, emendations, edits or changes. When the "convenience link" is hosted by a site that is considered reliable on its own, this is relatively easy to assume. However, when such a link is hosted on a less reliable site, the linked version should be checked for accuracy against the original, or not linked at all if such verification is not possible. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 21:25, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted the reference links but left the tags for now. Will try to produce the articles with "convenience links" by the weekend. Abuse truth 03:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "convenience links" are fine for now, they let me see the full text. I am restoring them. ---- Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Abuse truth[edit]

  • Note the same typo from "Mind Abuse" it should read ruled out, I believe Abuse Truth is getting their info from this website, and not the original articles as claimed. All five references that don't show up in Google News archive. See here:

Doctor confirms abuse in sex-ring case - (AP) 12/5/96 - Waterville - "One girl showed definite medical signs of sexual abuse and it could not be ruled for two others, a defense witness testified (Dr Deborah Harper)...in the child rape and molestation trial of a Pentacostal preacher and his wife... Prosecutors allege unordained pastor Robert "Roby" Roberson and his wife, Connie, has sex with children at the East Wenatchee Pentacostal Church of God House and Prayer and at their home.

That doesn't mean that they are false, but it means they weren't given widespread circulation, or that bigger media outlets chose not to use that AP article. Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:35, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The info came from copies of the actual articles. Will provide info this weekend.-- Abuse truth (talk) 22:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You cut and pasted the same typo from the Mind Control site. The links are what they are, this is the only place they exist on the Internet. You provided 5 references, and all only come back to this website. I don't have a problem with it, just be honest, and don't lie. When your caught in a lie over something simple, no one will believe what you have to say about serious things. Going to the library and looking them up will confirm them, but they will still have the same "courtesy links". --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 03:07, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As you can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fells_Acres_Day_Care_Center I did not lie. All of the data there came from Internet articles. I have two scanned copies of the Wenatchee articles now as well. Once I figure out how to get them either on this page or my talk page, I will let people know. Abuse truth (talk) 19:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Pictures of the articles are now up at :
Wenatchee article one is at
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/news_articles/photos/view/397e?b=1&m=f&o=0
Consultant finds...


  1. 2 is at
http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/news_articles/photos/view/397e?b=2&m=f&o=0
Doctor confirms abuse...
If people have trouble getting to these pictures, please let me know. You may need to join yahoogroups first.Abuse truth (talk) 22:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that all of the sources you added to Fells Arces Day Care Center were archived makes me wonder whether some of them were retracted by the news source in question. That's not enough for me to assume they're invalid, but it does add questions. I believe you saw all the sources you're "quoting", but you had been misquoting a number of them. 21:58, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
At Fells Acres Talk, I proved that I didn't misquote anything. And it is more likely that the newspapers simply decided not to archive the articles, which is common for many newspapers. And if you go to the pages above, you will see again that the quotes are accurate.Abuse truth (talk) 02:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above urls have been deleted. The new urls now in the references are
http://www.geocities.com/wikipics/Scan002.jpg and http://www.geocities.com/wikipics/Scan003.jpgAbuse truth (talk) 01:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
At Fells Acres, an impartial observer could easily see that you did misquote a number of things. Your jpegs are unacceptable, unless you put format = disputed scanned image. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There were no misquotes at Fells Acres. The talk page proves this. And the jpegs on the page do have "url =": before them. Abuse truth (talk) 03:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There were many misquotes at Fells Acres, as you well know. The jpegs need to have format=screenshot, or considering they may be on your personal website, disputed screenshot. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 06:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, they were no misquotes at Fells Acres. I have reprinted the articles with matching quotes in their entirety at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fells_Acres_Day_Care_Center The jpegs are accurate pictures of the articles. There is no evidence otherwise.Abuse truth (talk) 03:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is no evidence that they are accurate quotes. Perhaps "unverified" would be better than "disputed", but your misquotes are clear at Fells Acres and Recovered Memory Therapy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthur Rubin (talk • contribs) 06:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree - At Fells Acres Talk the quotes have the same content as the articles. The pictures of the articles are excellent verification.Abuse truth (talk) 02:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We've gone through that. The quotes do not have the same content as the articles. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 02:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No we haven't. The content is the same. Anyone can go there and see.Abuse truth (talk) 02:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Anyone can see that your "summaries" do not reflect the content of the articles. Now that you're going to quotes, we can agree you're getting it right. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 02:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, you are incorrect again. The Fells Acres edit was a combination of quotes and my words.Abuse truth (talk) 03:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Scanned articles[edit]

I am fine with the scanned articles. Please stop disputing them, its getting silly, concentrate on content. The scans should be added to a more permanent part of the web, do you have a blog, AbuseTruth?--Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:19, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above. Will look into this. Abuse truth (talk) 01:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

discussion of EL recently added to page[edit]

These two ELs have been restored twice to the page w/o reason. I have deleted the ELs per WP:LINKSPAM and WP:ELNO 11 - personal web pages, 4 - promoting a website and an advocacy site and another editor also deleted these. One was also an AOL site. Concerned Citizens for Legal Accountability (CCLA) and archived CCLA websiteResearchEditor (talk) 04:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find an WP:EL violation in including an apparently notable advocacy group's site. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 12:01, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have cited the reasons above for deletion. Please cite your reasons for keeping this link as per WP:EL. ResearchEditor (talk) 02:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rename discussion for all ritual abuse cases[edit]

Editors note generalized discussion affecting all ritual abuse cases, at Talk:Satanic_ritual_abuse#Rename_discussion. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:simple/complex 14:51, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs to be renamed[edit]

There was no "sex ring". 98.118.62.140 (talk) 04:00, 18 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree - title was WP:BLP violation, moved to Wenatchee child abuse prosecutions. Exxolon (talk) 00:08, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Dated link list[edit]

I followed this story as it happened, and I created a set of links to Wenatchee, WA alleged witchhunt articles then on the internet. Perhaps some authors might also find it helpful. It has Kathryn Lyon's "Wenatchee Report" in a few formats (including plain text). When Concerned Citizens for Legal Accountability decided to discontinue their website, I offered to archive it (as it was), and CCLA said yes. Thanks to CCLA for making this resource available, then and now. Archive.org then archived this, so the archive now available (and cited on the page) is an archive of an archive. DougHill (talk) 19:58, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I had trouble downloading the "Wenatchee Report" from the CCLA Link on the page, but I was able to get them at: [1]. Should we change the link on the page? DougHill (talk) 00:16, 29 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done. DougHill (talk) 18:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Roberson interview[edit]

There is an interesting interview of Pastor Roberson at: http://cameogarrett.blogspot.com/2008/03/wenatchee-mentality-conversation-with.html . Can we cite this blog? I think this reliably sources some of Roberson's views. He mentions an interview with Geraldo Rivera. We should cite that if we can find it. DougHill (talk) 19:15, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Started. DougHill (talk) 02:32, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
According to http://www.religioustolerance.org/geraldo.htm , the Roberson's Geraldo interview was the night of their acquittal, 1995-DEC-12. I've not found any video of this online. DougHill (talk) 00:01, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reno briefly reconsiders[edit]

According to [2] and [3], Janet Reno looked at some of the sources cited on the page, and said she'd "take a new look" at her decision not to do anything about these cases. Ultimately she did not change her mind, so I'm not sure if or how we should address this on the page. DougHill (talk) 22:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Siegel[edit]

Mike Siegel did a radio show from Wenatchee about and during these cases and interviewed some of those involved.[4] He wrote a chapter in his book about this.[5] If we can find a recording we should link to it. But I'm not sure whether or where this goes on the page without that. DougHill (talk) 10:01, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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