Talk:WPST-TV/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Mujinga (talk · contribs) 12:32, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Review[edit]

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Copvio check[edit]

  • Earwig doesn't give anything to worry about but of course it can't work on clippings so I'll keep my eyes peeled

Prose[edit]

  • lead - i'll come back to this last
  • if you start reading the artcile by ignoring the lead, then it launches right in on "License fight" - is it a fight? or is it a process or a simple application? also perhaps an introductory sentence could be added tio set the context
    • The FCC took applications for the same station/channel and put them against each other in a comparative hearing. I do think "license fight" is better used later on though. Comparative hearings result in construction permits, which are replaced with licenses once the station gets on air.
  • "while WGBS was owned by Miami Beach–based Storer Broadcasting, the latter's bid also included construction of a" - i'd suggest a semi-colon so "while WGBS was owned by Miami Beach–based Storer Broadcasting; the latter's bid also included construction of a"
    • That sentence needed splitting outright.
  • Storer's re-entry turned the application process into a five-way battle as North Dade Video, Inc., submitted an application.[14] so I'd suggest "Storer's re-entry turned the application process into a five-way battle as North Dade Video, Inc., had also submitted an application.[14]"
    • Changed
  • "behind the glitter and glamor of South Florida lies moral decay, delinquency and graft" in a direct quote the link really needs to be a clear illustration, so graft going to Graft (politics) works byt deliquency going to Felony, where the word is not even mentioned, is not clear enough
    • Removed that link
  • "Storer Broadcasting president George B. Storer re-emerged in the channel 10 fight." - is it a fight at this point? or was WKAT awarded the license, case closed?
    • This is a protest against the initial decision.
  • "WGBS-TV was also in danger of losing their NBC-TV affiliation" - "its NBC-TV affiliation"?
    • Changed
  • "which recently won a recommendation" suggest "which had recently won a recommendation"
    • Changed
  • "Both were turned down by the appeals court on March 9, 1956, allowing for WCKT to be built" - it's not clear to me why if the appeals failed WCKT can be built, since its the first mention of WCKT
    • WCKT is channel 7 in this case.
  • "As expected, WCKT debuted that July as an NBC affiliate, forcing WGBS-TV to operate as an independent with a significantly downscaled lineup[36] " - as expected by who? why would this force WGBS-TV to operate as an independent?
    • Because WGBS-TV's only network affiliation was NBC. Also note the line earlier: Trammell, a former NBC executive, announced the network would join their station when it launched. Biscayne announced they were going to be NBC. WITV had ABC. WTVJ had CBS. There was nowhere for WGBS-TV to go.
  • "the FCC was set to award the license at an upcoming February 6 meeting, but Broadcasting reported a decision already had been written favoring Public Service Television/NAL" - this is quite bizarre to me that the FCC would award to license to someone else (and indeed the crux of the tale so far) is there more that can be said on this?
    • The commission itself didn't have to abide by the initial decision of the examiner! KXTV (which I wrote) is another example where the initial decision was later overturned and another applicant got the channel. In that case, after the initial decision, the competing applicant appealed to the full FCC and argued its decision was inconsistent with policies on media ownership.
  • further on that point, the first paragraph on "construction" is more about the saga
  • "that ultimately doomed WPST-TV." suggest "who ultimately doomed WPST-TV."
    • Changed
  • " also admitted in testimony to have engaged in wire-pulling to " - the wire-pulling link goes to marionette which i don't think is helpful
  • "Oregon Sen. Wayne Morse called for President Eisenhower to call for Mack's resignation as a result of Whiteside's testimony, " - two "call"s suggest changing one
    • Changed
  • "it worried Pan Am would use the station to promote itself " suggest "it was worried Pan Am would use the station to promote itself "
    • Changed
  • stopping here for now because of a slight concern over spotchecks - went as far as "The FCC's verdict"

Prose2[edit]

  • "Despite the station ceasing operations, the "WPST Television Channel 10" marquee outside the former studios continued to be turned on every night" - so the lights were being turned on? can you add that in
    • Yes, it's a big lit sign. You can see it here.
  • " Unlike WPST-TV, after WCKT's license was revoked with Sunbeam Television receiving short-term operating authority, Biscayne Television sold the previous WCKT's assets to Sunbeam,[182] which launched their iteration of WCKT on December 19, 1962, retaining all staff." - not sure what "Unlike WPST-TV," means here, can you spell that out
    • WPST's Baker refused to sell anything to the incoming WLBW-TV. WCKT Mk I sold its assets to WCKT Mk II.
  • The permanent license was again shrouded by accusations of favoritism at the FCC" - (just a comment- oioi more favouritism!)
  • "Richard A. Mack was found dead " - no cause of death? (comment - and how sad, so many deaths)
    • I have added a reference and some updated information on this one.

Spotchecks[edit]

On this version:

  • 21 The majority of the attention, however, focused on George T. Baker. Baker testified that he viewed the channel 10 application as a "force for good" to improve civic engagement, citing the Kefauver Special Committee on organized crime as evidence that "behind the glitter and glamor of South Florida lies moral decay, delinquency and graft—the three forces that are dry-rotting the fiber of the community." - "force for good" - is this a quote from him or from the newspaper headline? if the latter, maybe better to rephrase. second quote is good. why say "however" - seems unnecessary and unencyclopedic. further i wouldn't say "majority of the attention," is backed by the source
    • Fixed
  • 42 "should be allowed to own a television station, which the commission rejected as committing "legal error in considering it"" - source says "FCC has told Sen. A. S. Mike Mon - roney (D- Okla.) the Commission feels it would be committing "legal error" if it con- sidered the senator's request that the FCC defer action in the Miami ch. 10 case" - so i think your quote is a bit off and needs modifying
    • You missed the third paragraph. The FCC, in a reply dated Jan. 11 and revealed Wednesday, said that in an adjudicatory proceeding such as the Miami ch. 10 case, the Communications Act and Administrative Procedure Act require that decisions be based only on matters of record. It added: "Your letter, of course, is not of record in the proceeding. Accordingly the Commission feels it would commit legal error in considering it."
  • 54 In an interview with the Miami Herald, Baker reiterated his aspirations to use WPST-TV as a tool to improve coverage of community events and government functions, and favored the station delivering on-air editorials, saying, "I think our station has the right to say what it thinks on community issues." - fine
  • as a sidenote, the article next to this one in the clipping details what being an ABC affiliate was in terms of TV shows, i think that would be helpful to add to the article
  • 80 "With the channel 10 scandal in public view, the FCC selected retired Pennsylvania Supreme Court justice Horace Stern to preside over a rehearing for the WPST-TV license, the first time an examiner outside of the commission's staff had ever been appointed" - fine
  • 96 "A cross-examination of George T. Baker resulted in Baker assailing Sen. Smathers for lying to the House Subcommittee to "put out a big story", while Katzentine's attorney read from Smathers' statement describing Baker as "over-bearing and abusive" during a visit to his office. Baker also denied knowledge of Whiteside influencing Mack but said, "I'm grateful for what he did if he did it... but he certainly didn't do it at our discretion." - this is fine except for the last quote getting slightly mangled, which is a serious issue. the quote is actually "I'm grateful for what he did if he did it [..]] but he certainly didn't do it at our direction." - direction not discretion. it's important to get a direct quote correct, so i'll need to spotcheck some more
    • Repaired
  • 111 p3 " Television Digest criticized the trial for having not revealed any new information other than what had already been established, noting that its "cast of characters was ready for full rerun"[111] - fine
  • 110 p7 "while calling the testimony "lumbering" and "dull", declaring "...the end of the marathon construction job was nowhere near in sight".[110]" - does it call the testimony lumbering and dull? dull yes but lumbering not. the long quote is fine. also the link here could be better, like for 111 which goes to the exact page
    • It says that the trial "lumbered"
  • 119 "while Whiteside's attorney hailed the holdout juror, 40-year-old government engineer John A. Sakaley, as a "man of courage"" - damn again the direct quote is a bit off ... the source says "he is a man of great courage and stature" - that needs fixing
    • Another case where Nathan quoted the newspaper headline (like 21)
  • 127 "Mack's physical and mental health, however, deteriorated to where he was admitted to the Jackson Memorial Psychiatric Institute under court order on January 28, 1960, for what doctors called his "lacking in competence and capacity to conduct his personal or other affairs and to exercise judgement" made worse by alcoholism." - source says Jackson Memorial Hospital but article says Jackson Memorial Psychiatric Institute, direct quote is again off, in source it is "lacking in competancy [sic] and capacity to conduct his personal or other affairs and to exercise judgement"
    • It looks like the psychiatric institute was part of the hospital. I find newspaper references to "Jackson Memorial [Hospital]'s Psychiatric Institute" and "Jackson Memorial Hospital Psychiatric Institute". I have reworded to reflect this.
  • 128 "Mack's father termed it "a wandering mind" while Mack was given psychiatric treatment twice and hospitalized following a fall" - again, the direct quote is off. the father is reported as saying "mind wandering" and "his son's mind was wandering" but NOT "a wandering mind" - ok stopping here to discuss with nominators
    • Reworded. "Wandering" seems to be the only quotable word.

Overall[edit]

I am enjoying reading this rather labyrinthine story of the creation of a TV station. I'm about halfway through but started hitting problems on the spotchecks, particularly associated with the accuracy of direct quotations in 21, 42 and 96. I therefore did some more spotchecks and have the same problems with 110, 119, 127 and 128. Seems like we should discuss, because I am leaning towards failing this article right now since it needs some work on sourcing. Pinging nominators Nathan Obral and Sammi Brie -Mujinga (talk) 16:37, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have addressed all the prose-side issues you have raised, Mujinga, and I am also going to review the quotes that are already in the page. Expect more pings as we start untangling this. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 20:26, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Mujinga: I have addressed all the items found in initial spot checks and reviewed almost every direct quote on the page to ensure accurate reproduction of their contents. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 21:16, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Great thanks for the prompt response, then I can continue with the review Mujinga (talk) 14:32, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More spotchecks[edit]

  • 138 - fine
  • 157 - fine
  • 185 - The permanent license was again shrouded by accusations of favoritism at the FCC, as Drew Pearson criticized the WLBW-TV bid for Broadcasting publisher Sol Taishoff's ownership interest in the company. Taishoff maintained a close relationship with the commissioners, prompting Pearson to remark that WLBW "has now ended up in the hands of the man who most influences the FCC—the same Sol Taishoff". - grr need to add "partly" to make quote correct
  • 97 All of those (lobbying on behalf of A. Frank Katzentine)... to whom (FCC commissioner Richard) Mack was obligated, by reason of friendship or political support... actually sought his vote for WKAT, however vigorously both he and they denied, they asked him for it in so many words. One would have to be quite naïve to accept... that they urged him only to decide... on the merits... Mack certainly knew what was being asked of him. - Judge Horace Stern[97]
  • this is being presented as a direct quote but it's not exactly what Stern said
  • 102 - fine
  • 103 - nope quoting headline again not the person, as mentioned already

Images[edit]

  • File:WPST 1958 logo.png - it would be fine to upload a logo to EN to illustrate this page, but the license on commons says "The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain " and it's not clear to me who that was
  • File:L B Wilson.jpg - I'm not convinced by the rationale this is taken from an advert
  • File:George T Baker 1940.jpg - nice pic, however again im not convinvced by the rationale "The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain" - who is that person? the copyright notice at https://www.floridamemory.com/learn/about/disclaimer.php is unclear to me
  • File:George B Storer.jpg - not convinced by the rationale "The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain" - who is that person?
  • File:WPST-TV Miami "Good Morning" show interview of Julius La Rosa.jpg - i remain unconvinced by the rationale "The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain" - who is that person? the copyright notice at https://www.floridamemory.com/learn/about/disclaimer.php is unclear to me
  • File:Mack and Katzentine.jpg - i'm starting to think Nathan Obral as uploader is saying "The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain " refers to them, but it doesn't work like that unfortunately. the ebay seller says "A local investor bought the photo archives from several US newspapers and we are selling the original press photos that have been sitting in drawers, folders and boxes at the newspapers offices for decades." - so i doubt the license is good
  • File:Charles Topmiller.jpg - not convinced by the rationale that this is taken from an advert
  • File:Molly Turner, WPST-TV hostess.jpg - not convinced by the rationale "The person who associated a work with this deed has dedicated the work to the public domain" - who is that person? the copyright notice at https://www.floridamemory.com/learn/about/disclaimer.php is unclear to me
  • File:WPST Public Statement.jpg - hmm this is arguably an advert but i don't think it can be included as a clipping
    • Responding to these in preparation for a renomination soon. Mack and Katzentine.jpg has been removed. The Florida Memory items were mistagged. Florida Memory offers items under a public domain mark (see commons:COM:PDM), which muddied the water a bit — we've determined these items can likely stay (commons:Commons:Village pump/Copyright#Florida Memory — or search the archives for "Florida Memory"). The other items have also been appropriately retagged as PD-logo, etc. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 07:24, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Overall2[edit]

OK I'm going to stop the review here and fail the nomination. Thanks for the work you both have put into the article and for the fast response from Sammie Brie, but I'm still experiencing problems with quotations (eg sources 97, 185, 103). Also, right now I don't think any images are appropriately licensed. I do think the logo can be used, but it needs a different license. This article needs some polishing and then I'm sure it can be a good article in future. At the moment it fails on criteria 2 and 6. Mujinga (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Mujinga: I plan on fixing all the issues and geting to the bottom of the image licensing issues. I will say off the bat that Florida Memory has a lot of PD photos, so there are more than you might think. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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