Talk:Treaty of Nymphenburg

The Mysterious Treaty of Nymphenburg

I created this article because it was redlinked in the First Silesian War and unlinked in a couple of other articles. I thought it would be simple to create and then I'd just link the other references in Wikipedia. I've completed this objective, but little did I realize how complex this could get. It appears to have been a secret treaty whose initiative is led by Marshal Belle-Isle on behalf of the French, so evidence is lacking and reliable reference material is very hard to come by. Circumstantial evidence abounds, particularly the ramping up of French subsidies after May 1741 and the presence of Belle-Isle in Munich at the time the treaty between Spain and Bavaria was signed. Soon afterwards, Belle-Isle headed off to get Prussia and Saxony into the war. During my searches, the data suggested that there was even a forgery of a treaty between France and Germany.

The documentation on all of this is difficult to track. And, I know Wikipedians like recent references best, but in studying the War of Austrian Succession, my study of the older, freely available materials suggest that ofttimes the more recent material just cites the old, and any errors just propagate through time. And this continues unless some new document is discovered. Such is the case with the Treaty of Nymphenburg. The new sources appear no more reliable than the old. Some cite a treaty, some are more nuanced in their language about a treaty. Unless a new document is discovered in the meantime. It seems the new material is just as problematic as the old in this case.   The strength of the older material- if new information doesn't surface- is that has the same information as the newer works, often goes into more detail and sometimes has a more literary quality. And also, it is free access! I just used the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica's date for the signing of the treaty between Bavaria and Spain. This date was also used in the German article on the treaty, though that article also appeared to get the details incorrect by including France.

Two additional articles are those by Karg-Bebenburg in two articles (1909 and 1923, the latter being the strongest). Though freely available, being in German- and complex academic German at that- makes it an inappropriate reference for this article. Karg-Bebenburg's evidence is primarily circumstantial, mainly citing actual letters from the French that primarily discuss the complexities of French subsidies to Bavaria during the time.

Below are the citations to Karg-Bebenburg's work for anyone interested in pursuing this further (or putting a translation on Wikisource):

• von Karg-Bebenburg, Theodor (1909). "Aktenstück über den Nymphenburger Vertrag (Document regarding the Treaty of Nymphenburg)". Historische Zeitschrift. 103: 303–321.
• von Karg-Bebenburg, Theodor (1923). "Nochmals der Nymphenburger Vertrag (The Treaty of Nymphenburg Once More)". Historische Zeitschrift. 123: 263–292.

This is a completely esoteric topic, but nevertheless it may be worthy of more expansion as it really illustrates the shadowy, somewhat Machiavellian nature of politics in the age of European empires.
Wtfiv (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)