Talk:Tony Anthony (evangelist)

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This page was proposed for deletion by Onesti (talk · contribs) on 18 April 2008 with the comment:
No verifiable sources, sources used are interviews etc. No sources on claims of kung fu world champion, no information or sources on supposed killings.
It was seconded by Fayenatic london (talk · contribs) on 21 April 2008 with the comment:
Delete for lack of reliable sources. I added a link re UK killing in 2000, admitted in his Salvation Army interview part 2; but still no independent sources. An apparently open-minded enquiry on Bullshido.com concluded that this man is a fantasist. The creator of this article removed that link. See talk page.
It was contested by 72.145.180.19 (talk · contribs) on 2 January 2012 with the comment:
Tony Anthony is a well-known evangelist and author and his Wikipedia page had a removal request from people attempting to harm his story. We are seeking undeletion because there are a number of sources to verify the claims of Tony Anthony and we wish to have those stated on his Wikipedia page.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

keep, 4 October 2013 (UTC), see discussion.
delete, March 1 2012, see discussion.

This page was proposed for deletion by an editor on 23 April 2008 with the comment:
This article was deleted through the proposed deletion process. That deletion has been contested, and the article has been restored. Further attempts at deleting this article should be made through articles for deletion or the criteria for speedy deletion if the article meets any speedy deletion criteria except the recreation of deleted material criterion.

Reasons for deletion[edit]

I don't know this man, but an apparently open-minded enquiry on a discussion thread at Bullshido.com, seeking evidence for the claims of "three times world champion", concluded that he is a fantasist. The creator of this article previously removed the Bullshido link, but it seems fair to include it here on the talk page: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60260&page=4

Even if there were reliable independent sources, this person does not seem to meet the notability requirements for Wikipedia.

(For the record I have no axe to grind, e.g. I rescued the article on a better-known evangelist, Rico Tice, from proposed deletion.) - Fayenatic (talk) 16:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's one second-hand explanation proffered as to why there are no records of these "world championships": "they are highly illegal". If his grandfather's school is is not a mainstream martial art but a private matter training in lethal techniques, does it really have "world championships"?

Judging by customer reviews at amazon.com and amazon.co.uk, many (not all) readers and hearers seem to have been moved and helped by this man's testimony, and I'm pleased to hear that. But it still fails the objective requirements to be kept on Wikipedia. - Fayenatic (talk) 17:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a link to the un-deletion request made on 2 Jan 2012. Bearing in mind WP:DEMOLISH, I will not take any further action to delete the article for a while, to give the anon editor time to add the sources that s/he referred to. However, please see Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. – Fayenatic (talk) 20:30, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In his book Taming the Tiger Anthony claims to have been a Three Tmes World Kung Fu Champion. There is absolutely no proof of this at all, in fact various Kung Fu Associations around the world have sent written confirmation that they have never heard of him, also they were sent photos of Anthony and no one recognised him.

The Citations in this Article supporting Anthony's Wiki Page are made by persons and Organisations who have no proof whatsoever of what they are confirming. If they have of course that can posted here, however unsubstantiated articles in Christian Media, Anthony's own Book or Anthony's interviews are not proof of events.

Anthony's Wiki Page was deleted several years ago because of his unfounded claims, now this watered down version has been posted but still is full of deception and lies. He has maintained that the Wiki Pages were deleted because of technical errors, untrue, it was because he could not substantiate any of his bogus claims. - Trueornot (talk, contribs) 21:03, 11 February 2012

Revisions in January 2012[edit]

The article has just been thoroughly re-written by Erostad (talk). As it stands, large parts of the re-write will have to be reverted as

the article should be mainly about the man, but the first para has been written about the organisation; if it meets the notability guideline then it should have its own article, rather than giving excessive info within a biography.
the article gives statements of notability without independent citations, e.g. "Master in Kung Fu". His autobiography is not sufficient for this claim.
it uses weasel words about Anthony's criminal offences.
it still fails to demonstrate notability, without which it is liable to be deleted again.
independent sources, and info from them, have been deleted without explanation; some of these might indicate notability.

– Fayenatic (talk) 13:52, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted Erostad's edits, per WP:BRD. The rewritten article was in serious violation of WP:NPOV and the edits also removed the sources needed to pass WP:GNG. Open to including some of the new material if consensus on this page goes that way. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:09, 11 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Recreation[edit]

I have recreated this article from scratch as I would suggest the subject is now notable. Whilst there is plenty more than could be done, I have taken care to comply with WP:BLP and other policies, so I would hope it can stand and be improved. SmilingFace (talk) 12:32, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the decision to re-create the article. As the old one was only deleted for lack of notability & independent sources, I have restored the deleted history of the page. – Fayenatic London 12:52, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced content - August 2013[edit]

I've just reverted some edits by an unregistered user that added some unsourced content. Please remember the verifiability policy is strictly applied to biographies of living persons. If you're not sure about something, discuss it here first. SmilingFace (talk) 09:24, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Many thank, am new to this but have re-edited including links. Hope I have done this in the correct manner. 2.25.103.127 (talk) 11:15, 1 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]