Talk:Tigist Shibabaw

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Article issues[edit]

I've just removed a statement claiming that women are prohibited from singing in the Ethiopian church. See earlier and similar discussion at Talk:Gigi (singer). The entire Bole2Harlem section belongs in its own article; in particular the disputes surrounding the project carry a very WP:COATRACKish flavor in this article. And "unoffical online buzz" has no place on Wikipedia. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:57, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

why did you remove the statement about women being prohibited to singing in the Ethiopian church, it was sourced? Bab-a-lot (talk) 16:51, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I had also responded on your talk page, but this is probably a better place for it. The statement was not sourced, you can see that earlier version here (and also the diff when I removed it). Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:13, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I culled the information about women not being permitted to sing in the Ethiopian church from the artist's sister's, Gigi Shibabaw, myspace page click to see for yourself. Bab-a-lot (talk) 22:08, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it duplicates the text that used to be on her website (now offline; archived here, and note that later versions of the website omit this claim). I had already expressed my misgivings at Talk:Gigi (singer)#Controversy?. I don't think Gigi's Myspace page is a reliable source (see WP:SELFPUBLISH) I think to corroborate this claim, it needs to come from a source that is about, or even produced by, the Ethiopian Church. In the meantime I am still disputing this claim. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 01:11, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've found a source that I believe clarifies the matter, an interview with Kay Kaufman Shelemay (author of the "Ethiopia" article in the Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians). Gigi's quote, and the statement in this article, use "forbid" in the present tense but this is inaccurate. Shelemay explains that women generally did not sing nor serve as musicians in church until the revolution, i.e. the Derg era. She also clarifies that this is no longer the case. (Frankly I am still skeptical, but Shelemay is certainly a reliable source, which trumps my concerns.) I still don't know why Gigi has explained it this way, although I sense an implication that she is responsible for changing women's role in the church. The thing is, Gigi's quote makes no mention of Tigist learning music from the pries, in fact it doesn't mention Tigist at all, and the quote doesn't really even belong in this article. Hence statements such as "trained as a traditional Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church vocalist" are speculative at best. "On the verge of becoming a popular global commodity" isn't supported by any sources, and as written, doesn't suit the tone of an encyclopedia. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:39, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Gyrofrog , you're a trip. I quoted and referenced Gigi Shibabaw's official Myspace page regarding the tradition of women not being allowed to sing in the church. But for you, not even the artist, who is Ethiopian, is credible enough to be quoted about a tradition in her own culture regarding her and her sibling's own personal experiences. What an insult! Instead, you find it more reliable/credible an article written by an non-Ethiopian? Oh, and because you found this, it trumps what is quoted on the artist's own official myspace page (where I originally got the information from)? To me, the artists Myspace page is more credible than the article you found. Who would be more credible as a source regarding Ethiopian tradition other than a native Ethiopian? The fact that this man is scholar does not, by default, make him more credible as even scholars get their information wrong, or are biased in their research.Bab-a-lot (talk) 13:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Where this article is concerned, the Gigi quote doesn't mention Tigist specifically, we can't assume the priest taught Tigist or that she sang in the choir (or wasn't allowed to, etc.) because nothing on the Myspace page says this. That's why I've re-worded the statement the way that I did, though honestly I'm not sure it belongs in this article at all. Otherwise, I have left my response at Talk:Gigi (singer)#Controversy?, and I suggest that we maintain the discussion there. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:35, 21 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the portion about Gigi learning singing from a priest, because (as I mentioned in earlier comments) the source doesn't mention Tigist, and this article isn't about Gigi. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:59, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Split Bole 2 Harlem[edit]

At one point I had flagged the article, suggesting that "Bole 2 Harlem" be split to a separate article (also see my earlier comments on this page). I still maintain that it really belongs in its own article. That material is less about Tigist Shibabaw and more about that project. Furthermore, the tone of the text implies it was Tigist's project while the cited source (PRI) does not even mention Tigist. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore this NPR article does not mention Tigist Shibabaw (though the entire radio story does [1]), and National Geographic does not mention her as being a principal member of the project ("The Bole2Harlem project is the brainchild of American producer, percussionist, and musician David Schommer and Ethiopian-American Amharic rapper Maki Siraj."). I'd almost go so far as to say that the "Tigist Shibabaw" article could be merged to "Bole 2 Harlem," except that she did appear on other recordings. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:10, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, I suggest that you go ahead and split the article. The tag has been there quite long enough. Op47 (talk) 00:20, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(Actually another editor had recently removed the tag; I replaced it a few hours ago. But you're correct, before that it was up there for a while.) -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:27, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Er, Actually, I was the editor that removed the tag. I was trying to clear up the backlog of split tags. At the time, it looked like no-one really cared about the tag, obviously I was wrong. Therefore, I am encouraging you to be bold and make the change. Op47 (talk) 17:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. OK, I had misread that edit summary (I thought it meant that no one had ever discussed it). I have gone ahead and split that section to Bole2Harlem. I wondered about making two articles, one for the band and one for the album. However, given that one of the group's primary members is deceased and the other two had a falling out, it is unlikely that any additional works are forthcoming (so I don't see that the single article would expand very much). If someone decides to further split that article, though, it should be a simple matter, given the way I've laid it out. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:29, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. The reason that Tigist wasn't mentioned much in the press (following the album's release) may have something to do with the dispute between Schommer and Siraj. I've mentioned Siraj's allegations (with source) in the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]