Talk:Thiruvananthapuram/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

TRV is NOT the cheapest to CMB

I have seen many blind reverts on this point. Let me put it on record the verified information. I took pricing for flights to Colombo on 1st April from various airports.

Srilankan Airlines quotes Rs 8215 for TRV-CMB, Rs 6060 for MAA-CMB and Rs 6620 for TRZ-CMB. that conclusively proves that TRV is NOT the cheapest. Similar costing is applicable for other days also.

If you try a general booking site like expedia, you will get similar results, even for multi hop flights.

I am going to edit the section now. Before anyone reverts, please prove here that it is not valid.

DileepKS(talk) 11:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

If you give the source links here, it's very easy to remove the statement;) BINOY ^Talk 11:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

http://www.srilankan.aero/ is the site. One needs to enter the details to get a quote, so can't directly link the information here.

DileepKS(talk) 11:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok i checked on this link and i found there,

For one way flight for one adult in economy class on February 19 2011

From TRV to CMB is INR 7200.00 From TRZ to CMB is INR 6620.00

But i also checked one way flight for one adult in economy class on May 25 2011

From TRV to CMB is INR 6395.00 From TRZ to CMB is INR 7810.00 BINOY ^Talk 12:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, same day (25 May, 2011), MAA-CMB is Rs 6060. Also, either 24th and 26th, it is Rs 8215 for TRV-CMB. Looks like a database error on that particular date to me.

Anyway, to claim 'cheapest' it should be at least cheapest on majority of the days, not one day in a year.

Issue closed. DileepKS(talk) 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, looks like it's not cheapest but the rates vary. Also the rates to Malé was unclear. The only Malé services from TRV is by Maldivian airline and their only International service is to Trivandrum International Airport. BINOY ^Talk 14:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Blind Reverts

Blind Reverts doesn't help anyone. This will cause the loss of valuable, bona-fide edits. Please refrain from them.

When an editor makes an edit giving a proper reason, It is only fair to expect a proper reason to revert that. This way, the edit could be taken to the Talk page to resolve the dispute. Let me give an example from this page.

I removed the assertion It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India., citing a specific reason, viz 1. 'considered cleanest' is weasel word. 2. The ref does not assert that point 3. The ref is a tourism promotion site.. Editor Lower Fourth blind-reverted it, along with many other edits by other editors with a statement pls help!! some users are destroying the intro of the page. See history!!!

That is unfair, and goes against the basic principles of Wikipedia. If the editor have a dispute on my action, he/she must revert that specific edit, and then we could resolve it on the talk page. This process if violated by the blind revert.

I have put back the original version, with the hope that editors would follow the proper procedure and work out the dispute(s) if any here on the talk page.

DileepKS(talk) 04:24, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

it is not blind reverts. "It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India" is not a weasel word it is really considered as cleanest. and since it is the capital and largest city, distance to other city's is not needed. and the previous intro looks great and informative and the new one looks very messy. discuss here before making any change.Lower4th . TalK  04:48, 20 February 2011 (UTC) @Lower fourth - Can you explain why you do BLIND reverts rather than just revert the so called disputable point? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 07:27, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

'since it is the capital and largest city, distance to other city's is not needed' - what is that supposed to mean? Are distances to capital cities taught in school and others not? It is only good for the capital city and the largest city, if distances are mentioned. Especially in the case of this particular city which is not as popular as the commercial capital, it is good to have the distance to other cities mentioned lest someone miss out on this capital and largest city - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:07, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

You could also visit the Gandhinagar page which mentions the distance to Gujarat's major city.

@LowerFourth - can you please detail the points that you call destructive? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Gandhinagar is not the largest city in Gujarat and Ahmedabad is so important to Gujarat being the largest city in the state and to India because it is the 8th largest city in the country. Also Gandhinagr article does not looks so informative and it has to improve so much. Trivandrum is the capital and largest city in Kerala. See good articles like Bangalore, Chennai etc... Lower4th . TalK  07:15, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

It is not about large or small. In area, Trivandrum might be larger but when it comes to Trade and Commerce, Kochi is much bigger. It is always good to have a referring city. Kochi, that way is the best identifiable city in the region. What is your next issue? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 07:23, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Trivandrum is also a major Trade and Commerce center. Kochi is bigger than Trivandrum in manufacturing industry sector and Trivandrum is bigger than Kochi in the IT and software industry sector. in what way you said, "Kochi, that way is the best identifiable city in the region"?? Kochi is about 200KM away. Kollam is another major city in Kerala which is only about 50Km away Lower4th . TalK  07:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower fourth - I repeat! You are the one with the DISPUTE so you should talk before REVERT. Is that too hard to understand?Anyways, shall we add distance to Kollam since you say Kollam is the major identifiable city close to TVM? BTW, IT is not the biggest industry in Kerala... and Kollam is not identifiable on a national basis compared to Kochi. I hope you get the pt? - Cheers!!! So we are adding Kollam distance, are we not? - MountainWhiskey (talk)

dear whiskey, i only mentioned Kollam is the identifiable city very close to TVM. Kochi is not so near to Thiruvananthapuram. and i repeat that there is no need to add distance to another city in the capital city and largest city article. and I repeat! You are the one who added the DISPUTE content so you should talk before ADDING.Lower4th . TalK  09:33, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth - I don't understand why a capital city does not need to be identified by Distance. Are there no roads in the capital city? I did not add Disputed Content. Saying the distance to Kochi from TRV is 200kms is not DISPUTED. It is a fact. Why are you REMOVING FACTS? My simple Question is "Is the distance to Kochi 200-odd Kms or not? Pls answer before I reinstate the fact. And please stop behaving as if WIKIPEDIA belongs to you or folks out there. Your plea for HELP unfortunately did not bring anyone to HELP? ;) - MountainWhiskey (talk) 11:28, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth, you do not define the meaning of weasel word. There are established guidelines for that. The reference does not assert the "one of the cleanest" attribute, and it is a tourism promotion website. As a precedence, let me quote that the same site does assert that Kochi is the most cosmopolitan city in Kerala, but its use is disputed and the assertion removed. It was a clear assertion, but its use was successfully disputed. Here, the reference doesn't even assert the fact.

You can't use the quoted reference. The assertion shall be removed. DileepKS(talk) 09:49, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

@ whiskey: your behavior really shows that WIKIPEDIA belongs to you or folks out there. and dear whiskey, fact cannot be added in every place. for example, New Delhi is about 2,500 KM away from Trivandrum. yes or no? It is really a fact. but there is no need to add distance to Trivandrum in New Delhi page. Also in the Chennai page there is no need to add distance to Coimbatore. Lower4th . TalK  15:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

@ Dileep : Thiruvananthapuram is considered as a clean and green city from olden days. But the modernization of city caused the greenery and cleanness negatively. The Trivandrum corporation consider the cleanness of the city very seriously, like the Kochi corporation consider the slum dwelling problem of Kochi. The corporation has implemented so many plans and projects to keep the city clean. But the succeed one was the CCCC project.

Thiruvananthapuram city is under the CAPITAL CITY CLEAN CITY Project (CCCC PROJECT), which is an integrated solid waste management project for Thiruvananthapuram Municipal Corporation. The project was launched by the Chief Minister on 5th June 2006 and it has been implemented in 25 wards successfully in the same year. The achievement of the project was 97.98% of residential area and 95.36% of commercial area of the city are covered by the project and made clean. By comparing to other Indian cites, more than 93% of the city area is clean and is considered as one of the cleanest city in India, like Bangalore.

see : http://www.corporationoftrivandrum.in/cleancity.pdf Lower4th . TalK  15:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Froth - 1. If it is one of the cleanest cities, what is the ranking or rating? Do you have a study or any sort of statistic to prove this? Agreed, there was a time when it was one of the or the cleanest city. But that is long gone, it is still cleaner compared to most Indian cities but unless we have a ranking or rating we cannot put it up there. If we do, it means Weasel.

2. Does TVM page follow Chennai and Delhi and every other capital page in every way? What is so harmful in mentioning distance? "NO NEED" is not a valid explanation. Do you have a better reasoning? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 16:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Next Point of Dispute, Please? -

It doesn't said that it was the 2nd or 3rd cleanest city in India. It only said it was one of the cleanest city in India. And how can a city can be RANKED in the basics of Cleanness!!!!!???? And it is a statistic study by the Corporation of Thiruvananthapuram. can't you understand?? The achievement table in page 7 shows this. You are only doing this to promote your personal views.

2: there is no need to TVM page follow Chennai and Delhi and every other capital page in every way. I only said that there is no need to add TVM distance to New Delhi. WHY?.... also there is no need to add the distance of Coimbatore in Chennai page. WHY?... say the answer... The same answer is in the case of Thiruvananthapuram. Lower4th . TalK  17:09, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

and Next Point of Dispute, Please?----

Hi Lower Froth - Tell us something new? Are you saying that TVM is omnipresent that it need not be compared in distance to other cities? There is a difference between Chennai, Mumbai and TVM. Chennai and Mumbai are both capitals and commercial capitals of their states while TVM is only a Capital though not commercially and a lot of people think that Kochi is the IT Hub, Commercial Hub, Major City and even Capital (all of which is partly true). So, it is good to tell them where Kochi stands and where TVM stands. Else, nobody will ask. And, please, since you are the person with the DISPUTES, go ahead and present your Cases. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 17:34, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower, I am not disputing that the city is not doing anything about cleanliness. I am not disputing that YOU, or many other residents consider it the cleanest. What I am disputing is, there is no credible and reliable reference for that claim, without which, it is a weasel word.

DileepKS(talk) 00:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth - PLEASE DISCUSS AND SETTLE YOUR POINTS OF DISPUTE BEFORE BLINDLY REVERTING, REMEMBER THERE IS A DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING

YA, PLEASE DISCUSS AND SETTLE YOUR POINTS OF DISPUTE BEFORE REMOVING CONTENT, REMEMBER THERE IS A DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING Lower4th . TalK  14:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

@Lower Fourth - Please discuss, where is the discussion. You will be warned if you continue to revert.

Largest City

Dear Lower4th

If Trivandrum is the largest city, why they dont have the facilities like metro railway, suburuban railway, modern shopping and entertainment facilities, large scale industries etc....? Only in kerala these facilities belongs to the so called second largest city. And the funny thing is, now Trivandrum is bigger than Chennai, so it can claim the second largest city in south India. Great Trivandrum, great….....not the size, but the content that matters. Thalaykakath vallathum venam. Manasilayo?

--Bijuts (talk) 10:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Look at the population figures machooo.....

where in "so called second largest city" has metro railway? and also suburuban railway so funny.. modern shopping and entertainment facilities are also available in the largest city. ya the "so called second largest city" has some large scale industries and a port but comparing to other cities in India like our Bangalore or Chennai, those are nothing.... only thing cannot overtaken by other cities from the "so called second largest city" was the GREAT PERFUME LIKE SMELL and the number of MOSQUITOES..... Talakkakathu vallathum alla vendathu. BRAIN aanu vendathu. athengane..... Pinnaku talaynmarkku ithu vallathum ariyamo??? Lower4th . TalK  14:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

U r mistaken. Njan udesicha 'thala-its not you. Its for TVM. Urs fill with enough pinnake, everybody know it. Then compare to other cities:- We cant compare kerala with other states. Its an exceptional case in India, as we always discuss according to Indian parameters. Its entirely different from Kerala and highly densited even more than Bihar and Bengal according to Liveable areas. In Taminadu, Karnataka, AP and other states in India...people lives thickly only on metors. If Kerala is a big metro, Kochi will be the Nariman Point and TVM will be Sansad marg. Even Kerala got some big industries again, there is no such sudden jumping in population in any city. Population rise surrounding it....

--Bijuts (talk) 15:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

pinnakkum kalimannu aarude talayilanennu namukkariyam. ya i know Kerala is noted for it's scattered towns across the state. who said TVM has nothing in tala?? it's the capital, friend and the city is very important. most of the gvot headquarters and gvot research institutions situated here. the city is also noted for the educational institutions and research institutes. and people started to call the city "The educational capital". Facilities like ISRO's VSSC, Thumba Rocket launching station, Brahmos etc...etc.. are here and how do you say it is not so important. Remember each city has it's own importance. try to understand that things. shopping and entertainment is not the important fact.

Kochi has so many ultimate specialties. put that into light instead of blurring other city's light by some silly argument's. that does not feels so good.

population is the real factor to estimate the largest cities. TVM one of the best cities in India to reside in. because the city has less crime records and also clean and green. it attract more residents. so the population is greater. and also see World's largest municipalities by population Mumbai is in the second place and New York city is in the 15th place by population. Lower4th . TalK  15:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Guys! BACK OFF!! This mudslinging doesn't help anyone. Please delete this section, as it doesn't add any value or serve any purpose to the article.

DileepKS(talk) 01:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Updating Tourism numbers

The economic review 2010 is now available.

According to Appendix 9.1 on tourism numbers, http://www.spb.kerala.gov.in/images/ec2010/chapter9/3.pdf, TVM no longer is No 1 in foreign tourist arrivals. In 2009, TVM had 1,76,571 tourists, a decline of 25% from the 2008 number of 2,34,797. Ernakulam got 2,39,364 in 2009, a growth of 24% over the 2008 number of 1,93,013. The numbers are, obviously, for the districts, but practically every tourist arrive, comes to the city, so it can be readily used.

The claim of 'most foreign tourists' will be removed, unless a valid argument and concensus is made here for retaining the same.

DileepKS(talk) 07:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

find the city data. you cannot add the district data. because, EKM district is bigger than TVM dist in area. so there are so many tourist places outside the city area. and in TVM city most of the tourist attractions, including the beaches is within the city. Lower4th . TalK  15:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Compare TVC corporation and Cochin Corporation. Same is applicable here? TVC corporation expanding with neighbouring rural areas...it never ends. Still it doesnt have a municipality in its border.....Shame Shame.... --Bijuts (talk) 15:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

District numbers can be used as city numbers for tourism, because EVERY foreign tourist that lands at the airport visits the city. Do you think anyone would skip Fort Kochi? Same case with Domestic tourists also.

DileepKS(talk) 01:38, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

you can't say that Dileep. that's not the list of foreign tourist that lands at the airport and you can't say all the tourist's visiting Ernakulam distict is from that airport.

@ Biju- i don't understand what is the purpose of that "Municipality border" issue. what is the meed of municipality in the border? tvm corporation has an area of 214.86 km² and kci corporation is only 94.88 km².

ie; only 94.88 km ² of the corporation area is in the 2,951 km² wide district!!!! Lower4th . TalK  02:57, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Practically, every foreign tourist that visits the district actually comes to Fort Kochi. No one. absolutely no one, would skip that location. In fact the tourist locations outside the city attracts very few foreign tourists, and even those only do excursions from the city. You are just bringing in baseless and bogus arguments.

DileepKS(talk) 05:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit-warring and personal attacks

Whoever involved in the recent edi-war: Please read what Wikipedia is NOT before discussions and making changes in the article. If the warring continues, the users may be blocked and the page protected. -- Aarem ^(Talk) 09:46, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, there are 2 sides to the edit war - one is those who come to blindly revert and have never contributed even a penny. the other of course is those who try to add facts and correct pages and who are the victims of the first variety's actions - so who you gonna block? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, if you may please, we can discuss the individual points and resolve them.

DileepKS(talk) 09:57, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Aarem, you are a senior editor, so I am not considering your action as a blind revert. However, It would have b een better if you reverted only contentious edits. Here are my edits that got reverted in your action.

1. Administration and Law: Updated No of wards to 100
2. 'It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India.' Deleted. 1. 'considered cleanest' is weasel word. 2. The ref does not assert that point 3. The ref is a tourism promotion site. See Talk above.
3. Air: 'It is considered as one of the best airport in the country' is classic weasel word. Deleted.
4. Air: It is conclusively proven that TRV is NOT the cheapest. See Talk above.
5. Air: 'Apart from regular scheduled flights, many chartered flights from Europe like First Choice Airways from London Gatwick and Monarch land here during the peak tourist season (around December) with Kerala fast becoming a prime tourist destination in India.': Wrong structure. Removed the Kerala part.

These edits will be reinserted. Please describe your objections, if any. DileepKS(talk) 11:37, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, Let me make my points here: 1. Number of wards is 100 now. 2. cleanest is a weasel word. But considered cleanest is NOT. Anyways agreed with the opinion of dileepks. 3. The ref clearly states that. 4. There is nothing wrong in mentioning Kerala. --Samaleks (talk) 12:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Samaleks, wrt 3, the given ref is a news report about an interested party lobbying the govt, and the statement is from them. It is no way neutral, and totally unacceptable as a ref.

wrt 5, my problem is not Kerala. The sentence structure is grammatically incorrect. If you can re-phrase it, please do.

DileepKS(talk) 13:09, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

___________

User Aarem - Please justify why you reverted the following: 1. Distance from cities/towns 2. UA population 3. Breaking the huge paragraph into smaller paragraphs - we learned this in school and it improves stability 4. Trivandrum is not the only gateway to Kerala. In fact the latest tourism figures show Tvm and even Kerala as a whole has taken a dip. 5. Distance of terminals from C.Rail in your revision is totally wrong. 6. TVM does not offer the cheapest fares to SL. Overall, it is one of the most exp airports in the country right now.

Awaiting your clarification. Cheers - MountainWhiskey (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Let me also make my points:

points of wiskey 1.no use and no need here. only provide a link to other cities.

2. it's more than 1 million.

3. you didn't just broke the paragraph. you changed the content. any way the 2 paras are not HUGE.

4. ??

5. then give ref of correct distances.

6. most of the time, it is the cheapest.

points of Dileep. 1.Administration and Law: Updated No of wards to 100 is OK it is now 100.

2.'considered cleanest' is not a weasel word. ok, tourism promotion sites are not valuable here. but the info in the tourism promotion site is true. it can be understand by [1] visiting this. it say's more than 90 % of the city area is clean. we can't avoid it very easily. because cleanness is a very important factor among Indian cities.

3. the Hindu news report is considered as a good ref.

4. most of the time, it is the cheapest.

5. you can also re-phrase it. and some one here just learned this in school. Lower4th . TalK  04:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth, do not bring in laughable arguments please. This is a serious discussion.

2 - To be used, a claim like "considered one of the cleanest" needs some solid reference. Let me remind you about the precedence. The assertion have no base.

3 - The claim of the Hindu being good source is, pardon me, but laughably silly. You have a news report of someone lobbying, and you want to use that as reference? Let me quote a precedence here also. Look up the discussion about the IT Exports numbers above. A Hindu report that quoted the Kerala IT Mission, with EXACT numbers proved that the claim of IT exports on this page is incorrect. See the arguments raised by the senior editors against that. In fact I am waiting for some RTI responses to thoroughly refute that assertion.

4 - Did you check? It is disproven from reliable sources, and in fact the discussion is closed there with Editor Binoy. Read up, and if meeded, check yourself. On NO DAY, it is cheaper than Chennai. Apparently due to a database error, on ONE DAY, it shows cheaper than TRZ. On either day before and after, of that day, it is not.

5 - I did re-phrase, and it got removed in the revert. Hence the comment here.

Please. Please bring in valid arguments, and do not waste my time!

DileepKS(talk) 05:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Froth - I think I have had enough dealing with your kind - the Blind Revert Specialist With No Contributions and Getting Too Personal variety. There are much more experienced and mature editors on board here like Aarem and I would prefer talking to them cos all you can do is make me LMFAO. Cheers and have a good day - MountainWhiskey (talk) 05:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Evergreen City?

What is the origin of this legend? Google returns only circular references. Is there any reliable reference for this, other than the destination360 page, which is a tourism promotion site. Does any book, encyclopedia, peer reviewed article etc exist to support this?

DileepKS(talk) 05:43, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no circular references. Google search returns many results. Color blindness may be why you couldnt see google search results ;-) --Samaleks (talk) 07:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

That is not a good answer. Every google result says "Referred to as Evergreen city by Mahatma Gandhi", or the equivalent, which indicates a circular reference. Show me a record of a speech, or a written article that specifies the origin. OR, a reliable source, like a book, encyclopedia page, article by a reputed source etc. I believe it is an urban legend.

Allow me to bring in a precedent. The moniker "Queen of Arabian Sea" for Kochi is well documented. A Google books search shows plenty of book sources. And also the encyclopedias and history books call that. No result came up with google book search for '"evergreen city" trivandrum'

DileepKS(talk) 07:29, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Your belief doesnt matter here. Wiki relies on references, not on editor's beliefs. --Samaleks (talk) 07:55, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Neither yours. What I am saying is that a reliable reference doesn't exist for this. Do you have any? Other than a bunch of websites repeating essentially the same phrase?

DileepKS(talk) 09:15, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Sama-licks - That is exactly what User DileepKS is saying. There are no references to the Evergreen City sobriquet. And, there is no place for beliefs, only references. So, what is your point? That TVM is not evergreen. Spot on! bTW, Bangalore even today is greener than TVM. No, I am not talking about coconut groves. I am talking about greenery for every community or locale like parks! - MountainWhiskey (talk) 08:59, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Reference is already given in the article. In wiki, you need not arrive at your own verdicts. Just give the reference, and there are many ref from google search which supports it.

Mountainwhiskey, I wish you have shown civilized behavior here. Addressing me as "Sama-licks" is something which is not tolerable. I consider this as a personal attack. If you are not showing civility here, you will be blocked. I have also given a warning in your talk page for edit warring and personal attack. --Samaleks (talk) 10:53, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

May your wishes come true Chekto sorry Oops Samaleks! I think the Sama-licks was more of a typo caused due to Color Blindness (refer above). My sincere Apologies! BTW, your warning about Edit-warring - I cannot understand. Cos I don't see what warring I have done. Yes, I have warred those Vandals. And they are in hiding now sending me warnings. That is the best they can do. You need Knowledge and good language to fight wars on Wiki, IMO. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 19:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

The primary requirement for Wiki is verifiability, and the references fail this criteria. Just any reference will not do. It must be reliable. The destination360 site is a tourism promotion page, which is not acceptable as a reliable reference. Please provide a reliable reference. You yourself claim there are plenty of pages. Please bring up an acceptably reliable one.

DileepKS(talk) 11:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Says who? No where in wiki it is stated that tourism sites is not valid references. Further there are more references if you google. --Samaleks (talk) 12:32, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

YWell, bring the reference. Then we will talk.

DileepKS(talk) 16:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

User Samaleks - instead of running around on Wiki user pages, sit here and talk. Relax. Let us discuss your accusations of Meat Puppetry, Un-Civility, Vandalism, Blind Reverts, so on and so forth. Also, please note this is Wikipedia not a privately mismanaged discussion forum filled with 'jokers' and that you may not have the same privileges and powers that you have on such forums, over here in Wiki. - MountainWhiskey 03:20, 26 February 2011 (UTC); — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mountainwhiskey (talk • contribs)

The mention of "evergreen city" appeared on the edit No 51186606, 15:20, 2 May 2006 by 203.200.199.155. No reference was given then, or thereafter. All editors seem to have accepted it prima facie.

A google search on "evergreen city " trivandrum OR thiruvananthapuram for pages dated before 02-May,2006 yielded 15 results. ALL of them however, shows text that is exact replica of the later versions of the text appeared on Wikipedia. It is clearly circular reference, and the pages are clearly from a later date.

So, it is proven that the claim was just a legend created by an editor, and propagated by pages that refer to Wikipedia. Talk about manufacturing fact. This assertion that had been corrupting Wikipedia and websphere for more than four years, MUST be removed.

DileepKS(talk) 04:55, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Reasons for revert

1. "Thiruvananthapuram ranks first in the number of international tourists in Kerala also": Valid reference is given in the article. If any one needs to remove, it please prove that the statement is wrong. Your earlier pdf talks about district wise breakup, and even going by that, since airport is within the city, every tourist lands in the city. But that is not the case of Nedumbassery. Even the tourists not visiting Kochi, but going to Malabar area lands in Nedumbassery and will not enter the city.

2. "It is considered as one of the best airport in the country and one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions." : This statement also have a valid reference. Please prove otherwise.

3. Thiruvananthapuram airport ..... the closest to and sometimes cheapest option for neighboring countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka. : User DileepKS69 wants to remove the bolded part (sometimes cheapest option). It is true that it is cheapest to Maldives. It is also true that on certain promotional fares, it is cheaper to Colombo also. That is why it is said "sometimes cheapest"; not all the time.

And lastly, I request DileepKS69 to wait for some days till other users can also pitch in to state their opinion. That is a good editing behavior, I suppose. --Samaleks (talk) 20:40, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

You can't reach consensus when an editor refuses to accept rational arguments. You are trying to stonewall the bona-fide edits that are trying to remove incorrect and baseless assertions in the article. The sole motive for that is to provide a positive POV for your city. You have been recently warned for personal attacks, and that shows your credibility.

None of your arguments are valid, and I have repeatedly pointed it out. I do not wish to reiterate that ad infinitum. I am reverting your recent blind revert, because you have done it under bogus arguments. I believe it is in the good spirits of Wikipedia, because you are trying to prop up totally incorrect and misleading information on the page. Why leave it to other editors, when it is you who are stonewalling the valid arguments?

DileepKS(talk) 03:40, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

1. Each of the district in southern kerala having airports? I dont know exactly. If so, the statement "Thiruvananthapuram ranks first in the number of international tourists in Kerala also" is very true. Otherwise it is completely wrong. Then, I heard there is an airport at Karippur near Calicut. Is it closed now? If yes, the statement "the tourists not visiting Kochi, but going to Malabar area lands in Nedumbassery and will not enter the city" is very much true. Otherwise no.

2 & 3. I dont know what is the motive to put such foolish things on this page.

--Bijuts (talk) 13:51, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Wikipedia need valid references. All the 3 statements above are clearly referenced. if you want to remove it, prove that it is wrong. Thank you BINOY ^Talk 14:20, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Third Party Opinion Request

The dispute is about the validity and admissibility of references. There are four statements that are under dispute.

Statement: It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India.

Reference: http://www.keralatourism.org/thiruvananthapuram.php

Arguments:

1) The reference does not say or imply it is one of the cleanest cities. It just says, it is clean and green

2) It is a tourism promotion website, so naturally it is biased for the city.

Counter Argument: The document http://www.corporationoftrivandrum.in/cleancity.pdf gives the efforts of the city administration to clean the city.

Argument: The given document does not support the statement that it is considered one of the cleanest cities. It just details the efforts of the govt.

Precedent: The same website, on page http://www.keralatourism.org/destination/destination.php?id=2087264 says The commercial capital and the most cosmopolitan city of Kerala, Kochi is also known as the 'Queen of the Arabian Sea'... This was denied as a reference for the Kochi page.

It is implied that, if this reference is admissible, by precedence, the other reference will also be admissible.

Statement: It is considered as one of the best airport in the country and one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions.

Reference: http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/12/stories/2010111260300300.htm

Arguments:

1) It is a news report of The Kerala Association of Travel Agents petitioning the political leaders for bringing various facilities to the airport. Naturally it is highly biased for the airport.

2) The statement The association claimed that the premier airport was one of the best airports in the country and flights could be operated on all weather conditions. appears in the news report. It is an opinion by the association, who is petitioning for the airport. It is inadmissible as a fact.

Counter-Argument: The ref clearly states.

Argument: The ref is not credible, because it is evidently biased for the airport.

Precedent: The same newspaper has published a report at http://www.hindu.com/2010/08/17/stories/2010081765270300.htm, quoting the authorities about the IT Exports of the state. It is denied as a reference for disproving the claim of Apart from being the IT hub of the state with over 80% of the state's software exports.

It is implied that, if this reference is admissible, by precedence, the other reference will also be admissible.

Statement: the closest to and sometimes cheapest option for neighboring countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka.

Reference: None provided. That itself should disqualify this statement.

Arguments:

1)Extensive search of fares reveal that at no point of time, TRV is cheaper than MAA. It is shown cheaper than TRZ on one specific day in May, but that is apparently a database error, because the days on either side are the normal fare.

2) TRV is the ONLY direct connection to MLE, so the question of being cheapest doesn't arise.

Counter argument: The word sometimes is added, with the argument that on certain promotional fares, it is cheaper to Colombo also.

Argument: No reference is given for that statement. Searches did not show any day/any fare that is cheaper than MAA.

Satement: Thiruvananthapuram ranks first in the number of international tourists in Kerala.

Reference: 1. http://www.hindu.com/2010/05/24/stories/2010052457850400.htm 2. http://www.hindu.com/2008/04/15/stories/2008041553690400.htm

Arguments:

1) Ref 1 doesn't give any information about tourism.

2) Ref 2 used data from year 2007. Data from year 2009 from official govt sources is now available, which shows that Ernakulam clearly leads Trivandrum in foreign tourist arrivals.

Counter Argument: Your earlier pdf talks about district wise breakup, and even going by that, since airport is within the city, every tourist lands in the city. But that is not the case of Nedumbassery. Even the tourists not visiting Kochi, but going to Malabar area lands in Nedumbassery and will not enter the city

Argument: The numbers are given for every district, not just the airport. Tourists going to Malabar are counted at those districts, not at the airport. Much of the major tourist attractions and hotels are within the city, so almost every tourist will be visiting the city. So, the argument that the district numbers are distinct from the city doesn't stand.

DileepKS(talk) 01:39, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Note: I am looking in to these things now, while waiting for 3rd party response. I request editors/IPs not to do continous reverts to invite a block till consensus is reached. -- Aarem ^(Talk) 03:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

Thanks for making use of the Third Opinion process. This process is an informal one intended to help resolve disputes between two editors, but unfortunately it looks like four editors are involved in the dispute above. Other options are of course available, and I would recommend filing a Request for Comment on this issue. This will open the issue to a broad audience of editors, some of whom may have expertise on the contested subject, and that can offer valuable insight into your dispute. Dispute resolution is also available if the editors involved feel it is necessary. Best of luck.—TechnoSymbiosis (talk) 03:27, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Statement: It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India. =>
"List of cleanest cities in India 2010" is published now. Out of 253 cities, Thiruvananthapuram is ranked 73. Since it is not ranked within 10, I think this statement might be removed.

Statement: It is considered as one of the best airport in the country and one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions.=>
The ref given is about a claim by Travel Agents Association. More credible ref is required to support this.

Statement: the closest to and sometimes cheapest option for neighboring countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka.=>
Searches are showing that TRV is not the cheapest for Srilanka. Hence this should be removed.

Statement: Thiruvananthapuram ranks first in the number of international tourists in Kerala.=>
The data from the offical site of Kerala Tourism department contains information from the year 2003 upto the year 2008. This list contains city-wise breakup. The data reveals that Thiruvananthapuram is having more foreign tourists than other cities from 2003 to 2008 (Kovalam figures are also added; as Kovalam is within the city now).

Source: Kerala Tourism Department

Rank	City	Number of foreign tourists(2008)
1	Trivandrum + Kovalam	208,530
2	Kochi	142,328
3	Alappuzha	40,336
4	Kozhikode	8,196

The citation DileepKS has given for 2009 is not having city breakup details. Here in wikipedia, we need not assume things of our own, and thus it is not possible to guess the city wise figures from district wise figures. So, we need to wait till the Tourism department website is updated with latest city-wise data of 2009. Till then, this statement stands true.

I hope there wont be edit-warring again here. Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 05:53, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Aarem, thanx for the rational response. I agree to wait for the tourism deptt information. We can close this issue if you could remove the forst three statements.

DileepKS(talk) 06:10, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I am waiting for any more responses to this from other involved editors. I will make suggested changes after 24 hours from now; if there is no response. -- Aarem ^(Talk) 07:27, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I have already made my statements clear. In the list of clean cities, Trivandrum is listed 73 out of 250. This is a high score, and can definitely be considered as one of the clean cities in India. I wonder on what view point you are judging that a city ranked high is not a clean city. The sentence MUST BE retained.
Partially agreeing for the second issue. You asked for more credible reference. Please give me some time, and I will give a credible reference for that statement. Till then please do not remove.
The stmt the closest to and sometimes cheapest option for neighboring countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka. cannot be removed. Instead it can be rephrased as the closest to option for neighboring countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka, and the only option to Maldives.
--Samaleks (talk) 01:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

1. If you want to use the ranking, specify the rank. eg The city is ranked 73th in the Rank Of Cities On Sanitation 2009-2010. You can't use the One of the cleanest claim. Use this link which is the official one: http://pib.nic.in/archieve/others/2010/may/d2010051103.pdf

2. You want to research for the claim one of the best airports, fine. Remove the statement for now, which is based on an inadmissible reference, and re-insert it when you find the proper reference.

3. Fine with the the closest to option for neighboring countries like Maldives and Sri Lanka, and the only option to Maldives.

DileepKS(talk) 03:02, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Cleanest City - It is surprising that Trivandrum is 73 out of 250. But, that surely is not a good ranking. Like Aarem suggested, being in the Top 10 deserves to be called 'one of the cleanest'. Also, cleanliness is not just about 'clean', it is about pollution, waste treatment etc. I suggest that 'one of the cleanest' should be removed. Best Airport- I am not sure what this means. This tag was given well before the new Terminal was inaugurated. I cannot understand how one could rate the old TRV terminals as one of the best! If looks is the yardstick here,most of the airports have modern terminals now and we should wait for a ranking of all the new terminals. Also, the statement does not say on what grounds it is the best airport - in terms of - revenue, traffic, profits, passenger traffic, facilities? If you would like to retain it, please be more specific and of course have the references ready. Cheapest and Closest option - I would suggest rephrasing this to "one of the closest options to Maldives and Sri Lanka and the only direct option to Maldives. You can always use a connecting flight is what I am trying to say. For instance, someone in the UAE can fly to Colombo and catch a flight from there to MV. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 04:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Waiting for another day for Samaleks to provide a credible ref for "one of the best airport". I've replaced the given ref with "citation needed" tag. -- Aarem ^(Talk) 08:03, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I Concur DileepKS(talk) 10:42, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I dont need it from biased people from forums like SSC, who cant think neutral --Samaleks (talk) 11:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

That jab was totally uncalled for. I am a party to the dispute, and my concurrence is needed for the edit conducted by Aarem. I just did my duty as a participant by putting it on record.

And you, my dear sir, have shown your bias here, by the obvious disappointment in your tone. That is, not to mention all the weaseling arguments you made in the discussion.

DileepKS(talk) 11:45, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

the rank of the city was 73 / 250. and from the above reference given by me (CCCC project), it is clear that the government is well aware and implementing new plans to keep the city clean.

the cites in Kerala is always considered as clean. Here in the list, Kottayam municipality is in the list at 47 th place!!! and the Kerala government gives every year the cleanest city in Kerala award to Attingal Municipality!!!!! both are municipalities. Anyways, from the list, TVM city is in the 73rd position and it is the cleanest municipal corporation in Kerala.

why the hindu report is not a credible reference?? if the statement it is not true, will a publication like the hindu publish it?? remember most of the hindu reports are just like this report. we can't just neglect the report.

http://civilaviation.nic.in/aai/airport.htm http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Thiruvananthapuram/article423534.ece in the above links, we can see the TVM airport has best facilities which proves the travel agents association's claim is true. Lower4th . TalK  16:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

With reference to LowerFourth's (see above) efforts to prove the editors wrong - the 2 links given by you does not talk about the best airport-appreciate your efforts. Wiki has only place for FACTS, not for ASKING QUESTIONS and MAKING CLAIMS. Pls do not waste our time, thanks!- MountainWhiskey (talk) 17:48, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

to understand it is best, there is no need to narrate it through the word "BEST". the above links shows the airport is best. and i am not making claims. i am showing the fact by the Hindu newspaper report is true. Lower4th . TalK  04:03, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

LowerFourth, you are just trying to stonewall the discussion by raising weasel arguments. There is no claim for TRV to be among the best. Anyone who has seen a few airports of the country can see that.

DileepKS(talk) 06:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

your friend just said that ""Wiki has only place for FACTS, not for ASKING QUESTIONS and MAKING CLAIMS."" and you are now saying ""Anyone who has seen a few airports of the country can see that.""!!! Lower4th . TalK  15:49, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth - How does the above link (Hindu) say TIA is the best in the country? Most airports in the country have modern designs now and as asked earlier, what is the parameter that you are trying to evaluate here? Please be clear. Consensus has been reached and inappropriate information removed. Time for you to contribute, I reckon. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 17:12, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Wiskey - the above link (Hindu) didn't said say TIA is the best in the country. but the news report about the TAA (Hindu) it's one of the best in the country and the link given by me proves that. the link say's about the facilities of the airport. OK. Consensus has been reached and inappropriate information removed. so problem solved... and i will decide whether to contribute or not. no need for your instruction. Lower4th . TalK  15:49, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Information about Trivandrum Int'l Airport

1. Best Airport - Aarem, can this weasel and unreal statement please be removed? This does not seem to reach consensus and being an obviously unreal statement, should be removed. Suggestions, please?

2. Distance to Airport terminals - Anyone who has been in Trivandrum for a while knows that 3.7km is not the distance to the airport. FYI, 3.7KM was mentioned even when the new terminal was still being built! The ride from the hospital to the terminal building itself is >1KM. That would mean just 2.7KM to the city centre (Thampanoor)?

Please sort out.

Thanks - MountainWhiskey (talk) 17:21, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

the airport entrance is in front of the hospital!!! and ride from the hospital to the terminal building itself is >1KM??????!!!!!! Lower4th . TalK  15:49, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Mantan whiskey, See the distance in google maps and check your self wht is the distance. It is 3.7 km from Thampanoor to the new Chakka Terminal --Samaleks (talk) 16:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

The ref provided "http://airportsindia.org.in/allAirports/thiru_general.jsp" does not mention the correct distance and the look and feel of the website does not even make it look professional. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 18:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hey have you watched this movie called the 2 Idiots - it is the latest to hit Wikiwood. Please make sure you do. If you wanna copy I can send it over Ok back to business. Samaleks - Does Google Maps let you fly to the airport from the railway station or did you take the rail track and then jump off at the Amaizhanjan Sewer? Please clarify? Lower Fourth - I am talking about the distance from the Ramp on the hospital side to the Drop Off / Pick Up points or rather Departure / Arrival entrances. It is 1Km and a bit more. Please visit and see for yourself. Make sure you don't go on feet coz when I last heard you needed an Odometer to measure distances on roads. Pls try it out and let us know the distance. Have a great evening - MountainWhiskey (talk) 17:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Google maps gives a driving distance of 3.7km from Thampanoor to Ananthapuri Hospital. From in front of the hospital, it is 1KM driving to reach the new terminal, as reported by someone who checked. So, the total distance is 4.7km.

To the old terminal, it is 7.0km as per google maps. Hope it settles the issue.

DileepKS(talk) 01:18, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

The old terminal is only 6 KM fron tampanoor. The distance to the old terminal is given in the AAI website.

in front of ananthapuri hospitals was the entrance. from there it's only about 0.2 KMs. we have to consider upto hospital distance. because the terminal exit is in chakka, which is about 4.3 KM away from tampanoor. otherwise we have to mention - tampanoor to airpot = 3.7 KM and airport to tampanoor = 4.5KM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.15.56.71 (talk) 11:35, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

===

Amazer007 says - The AAI website (distance of 6KM) is surely un-reliable. We should talk from experience also. Let us take this step by step. * Main Route - Railway Station - Chakka (via Overbridge - Ayurveda College - Kaithamukku Overbridge - Vanchiyooor - Pattoor - Pettah - Chakka (4.4KM). * Chakka to Old Terminals (T1, T2) around the runway - 6.0KM. You can check Google Maps and talk to a Trivandrum citizen as well if you have not experienced this in person. Next time you visit Trivandrum please ask someone who works in the airport as well about how relieved they are that they don't have to drive double the length of the runway to get to work. That is the distance from Railway Station to T1, T2 = 4.4+6 = 10.4KM. Surely Aerial distance must be a third of that :-) If you are not convinced, please check the detailed description further below. Tnx. - Amazer007 14:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

===

see this video which is a drive from NH Bypass to the new Terminal of Trivandrum International Airport. The video is only 1.18 mnts and the car moves slowly. How does he traveled 1KM distance at that speed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.15.56.71 (talk) 12:44, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

The google maps distance is GPS surveyed, hence accurate within metres. AAI might have mentioned an approximate number.

Someone I know ACTUALLY DROVE from in front of the Ananthapuri hospital at bypass to the terminal drop-off area and reported 1km driving distance. It is done because we had a disagreement on the driving distance. He too claimed that it is only 200m, but got convinced when he actually drove it. Maybe someone local should try it.

I should now disclose that I haven't visited the place. I estimated 1KM from measurements on Google Earth. It came to be true when verified.

DileepKS(talk) 13:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

In that video, that man also "ACTUALLY DROVE". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.15.56.71 (talk) 13:35, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

@49.15.56.71 - I had a disagreement with Dileep earlier when he said the distance from the road to the terminal is not less than 700m. Like you, I was foolishly measuring the 'straight line' distance from the NH to the Terminal. To clarify, I drove through the ramp all the way till the Departure Point. It is 1.1KM to be precise. If the road to the terminal was a straight one, the distance would have been only around 400M. But that is not the case. Instead, the road is like this (as explained on the TIA Wiki Page) ...

I have been to the new terminal a couple of times - accessing via the Ananthapuri hospital side ramp. The distance from the Hospital end up to the Drop-Off/Pick-up points is 1.1KM (as per my car's un-faulty trip meter). The ramp goes straight up before taking a left (L) into a wider road, it again turns L-R-R-L-R and you reach the drop-off. It is a similar distance back to the ramp entrance taking a S-R-L-R-R-L before going towards the Chakka side or the Hospital. So my assertion would be 1.1KM (+ or - 0.1KM which could be attributed to Speedometer Reading Error). The popular and main route to the Railway station from the terminal would be: Chakka R/A - Pettah - Pattoor - Vanchiyoor - Kaithamukku Bridge - SL Theater - Overbridge - Thampanoor (distance of this route according to Google Maps is 4.6KM). So that would sum up as Ramp Access (1.1KM) + Main Road (4.6KM) = 5.7KM. Now if you want the distance from Railway Station to Airport Terminal since it takes a slight different route via Ayurveda College to Kaithamukku because Overbridge is a One-way towards SL Theater, the distance is 4.7KM according to Google Maps. Kaithamukku-Pettah is the most-widely used route to the Airport from the Central Station. - Amazer007 (talk) 11:20, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

- Amazer007 (talk) 13:56, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

the popular and main route to the Railway station to the terminal is Tampanoor - Eastfort-Enchakal-Airport and the distance is 3.7 km in google maps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.216.200 (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

would be great if you could share a screenshot of the Directions given by Google Maps to show the distance of 3.7KM from Station to Ananthapuri Hospital to the terminal. - Amazer007 14:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amazer007 (talk • contribs)

what is the need of taking the distance upto the pickup- drop off points??? the distance needed is up to the entrance. check this scr shot. I cannot see the exact position of new terminal entrance. so i added the path up to chakkai. it is 4.53 KM. the new terminal entrance is about 1 KM from chakai and exit is about 0.1 KM from chakkai. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.216.200 (talk) 15:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

So how does that explain the 3.7 kms? - 115.242.185.137 (talk) 19:24, 4 March 2011 (UTC) how does that explain the 4, 6 and 9 kms? 112.110.216.242 (talk) 09:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Check here : The distance from Thampanoor from Ananthapuri Hospital is 3.4kms. If there is ONE km from Ananthapuri Hospital to the new airport terminal, that makes a total of 4.4kms to the new terminal. Hope this clarifies. --Samaleks (talk) 04:48, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Appreciate your efforts with Google Maps - Mr Samaleks. I hope it is a sunny day out there in Pune! The screenshot you have put up is slightly too small to figure out the proper route. I am also working on a screenshot based on both yours and Amazer007s inputs. Amazer - brilliant explanation there, should put the case to rest soon. Sunny Sunday to all of you - MountainWhiskey (talk) 05:15, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Charter flights to TRV?

The statement about charter flights is unreferenced.

I tried to find any reference to this, and failed.

1. The websites of First Choice and Monarch do not have any reference to service to TRV 2. Search engines that find charter flights failed to find any flight to TRV. 3. News search charter flights trivandrum failed to get any results.

Considering the strong evidence against it, the statement is removed. Please obtain references before you try to reinstate.

DileepKS(talk) 07:07, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I second this. Chartered flights hardly come into TRV anymore. Last year, Chartered flights from the UK and Russia were canceled. Also, the statement "Chartered flights like XYZ" makes sense only if these are regular chartered flights. I suggest edits should be providing specific and genuine information from reliable sources as well. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 04:49, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

What you mean by this STRONG evidence? Put citation needed tag there, and ask for reference. Then wait for a month for editors to check and act. This is not your private forum or Skycrapcity to expect immediate actions. --Samaleks (talk) 04:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

@mantanwhiskey: So, you admit that there are chartered flights. Do you have any citations that it is not there any more? Cancellation of 1 or 2 chartered flights last year does not fits for the call to remove the statement from the article. --Samaleks (talk) 04:53, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

@Samaleks, your spelling of Mountain makes me wonder where did you actually go to school! Nobody ever said that Chartered flights have never landed in TRV. What User DileepKS above is talking about is about the FIRST CHOICE and Monarch flights. Unless you have specific references to those flights, it should be removed. Also, if you have specific referenced information to Chartered flights operating to TRV, please go ahead and put it up. Who is stopping you? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 05:09, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

This information is prima-facie unreferenced. In such cases, there is no need to seek citation and wait. Wikipedia depends upon verifiability and this statement fails the test.

DileepKS(talk) 05:07, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

OK. This should settle the issue: http://www.dgca.gov.in/pub/Pubb09-10/chap-5.pdf says TRV just handled 3, yes THREE charter flights in 2009-10. Proves that the statement is incorrect.

DileepKS(talk) 12:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Not Reliable???

The Hindu newspaper reports are always considered as reliable score. Why this can't be a reliable score. 49.14.77.249 (talk) 14:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

The statement was by Kerala Association of Travel Agents. Not Trivandrum Association of Travel Agents. They don't want to glorify this airport. Also the reference clearly says, Flights could be operated on all weather conditions. It was used as an alternative for Kochi, Karipur and Colombo airports when flights had to be diverted on account of inclement weather. On an average, 300 flights were diverted every year from Karipur and 100 flights from Kochi as per the Civil Aviation Ministry figures. 49.14.77.249 (talk) 14:22, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

This had been discussed enough already, and three editors, two of them senior, conceded the point. Do not try to flog a dead horse to life.

Bring neutral, reliable and verifiable reference, and we will open the issue. Do not try to stonewall the discussion, and impose your POV. It wouldn't help anyone.

DileepKS(talk) 16:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

You stonewalled all the info. Not me. The discussion isn't over. No consensus reached by all involved editors. 112.110.209.133 (talk) 02:59, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Is Kerala Assoc of Travel Agents a professional body with decision making authorities/powers? Just checking! When there has been consensus reached by several established editors, why are we waiting for a IP user to stonewall? Please remove - MountainWhiskey (talk) 05:01, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Kerala Assoc of Travel Agents didn't taken any decisions or plains. They only mentioned the importance of the airport which is true and is published by the the second-largest circulated daily English newspaper in India, THE HINDU. Sudheesh s (talk) 11:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

IP Editors can not be considered involved editors, because there is no means of verifying the identity. If you want to be counted as an involved editor, please sign up and make your arguments under a traceable user name.

Editors Binoy, Aarem and LowerFourth agreed. Samaleks did not come back with the reference for some time. It shows there is consensus.

DileepKS(talk) 05:11, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

All right, created an user account as you requested. Who are those Binoy, Aarem and LowerFourth? Founders of Wikipedia? Sudheesh s (talk) 11:21, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

No. They are the editors debated the validity of the ref, and conceded that it is not valid. Please read through the arguments above on this page before making your points.

DileepKS(talk) 11:28, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Revenue Earnings

Wikipedia Coimbatore page claims Coimbatore Junction is the second highest revenue yielding station in the Southern Railway and the same is also available in plenty of pages by googling. Trivandrum central 3rd or 4th? Pls clarify? --Bijuts (talk) 13:17, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

what's the need for that?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.216.200 (talk) 13:47, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Under Saturated Line Capacity of Trivandrum Division, stretch between ERS-SRR FEDL is 115% saturated which is the busiest stretch in Kerala State.

TVC handles 75000 passengers daily: Its because Trivandrum central serving to the entire Trivandrum district. comparatively, Kochuveli is small. But other districts are different. For eg: Thrissur district served by chalakudy,Irinjalakuda, Thrissur and Wadakkanchery. In Ernakulam district, Kochi metro area served by Ernakulam Junction, Ernakulam Town, Aluva and Angmaly and for the district besides these, chalakudy too. Also apart from TVC, Tivandrum district not having a major station like Aluva in ernakulam district. KCVL cant considered as it served only 7 departure trains. May be due to these reasons Trivandrum central revenue is high.

--Bijuts (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

so what??? what is the need for this discussion?? TVC handles 75000 passengers daily: Its NOT because of Trivandrum central serving to the entire Trivandrum district. It's because most of the important Indian cities are north of Trivandrum and most of the trains to these cities are only upto TVC. So, people from nearby southern cities like Nagercoil, Neyyattinkara, Kanyakumari etc use this station to go to other locations. thats why it's busy.

How many main trains originate from aluva, Ernakulam Town, Aluva and Angmaly, chalakudy??? KCVL is a terminus station and currently 7 main long distance trains originate from the station. 27 trains originate from Trivandrum Central.

What about the Varkala railway station. All the trains except Rajadhani, Himasager express, garib rath, reverse jan sadhabthi has stop in this station. also all trains except super fast express trans and intercity express, will stop at Chirainkil and Kadakkavoor railway stations. there are 20 railway stations in the district and you are saying that all the people from the district depends on TVC!!!!!!

Kollam JN is closer to major northern municipalities and populated towns in the district like like Attingal, Varkala, Kilimanoor etc.... Also, Tvm district is smaller than Ernakulam district in area and has only one railway line. (one other line is purposed).

Con: Thiruvananthapuram district is served by 1.Trivandrum Central, 2.Kochuveli terminus, 3.Thiruvananthapuram pettah, 4.Veli railway station, 5.Kazhakoottom railway station, 6.Kaniyapuram railway station, 7.Balaramapuram railway station, 8. Nemom railway station which is within the Metro area of Thiruvananthapuram city and other stations like 9. Kappil, 10.Edava, 11.Varkala, 12.Akhathumuri, 13.Kadakkavur, 14.Chirayinkeezhu, 15.Perunguzhi, 16.Murukkumpuzha, 17.Neyyattinkara 18.Amaravila, 19.Dhanuvachapuram and 20.Parassala. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.14.52.15 (talk) 17:52, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Dear Ip friend,

Out of total trains from TVC only 17 daily and 2 weekly trains halts at Varkala. We cannot compare Varkala with Aluva. Aluva is one of the major station in the state and also the second busiest station after Thrissur. Aluva is handling double in number of trains than varkala. Varkala halt time for trains is just 1 min, aluva is 5 to 3 mins.

Only a few trains at Kadakkavur and Chirayinkil. Rest of the stations are small and cannot be considered here. Train origination is not a criteria. Even Dibrugarh in Assam originate more than 13 trains. It means Dibrugarh is the largest and highest revenue?

And last you just count the revenue (only express train halt stations) from TVC metro area (Trivandrum central and Kochuveli) and Cochin metro area (Ernakulam Jucntion, Ernakulam Town, Aluva and Angamaly).

--Bijuts (talk) 15:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

hi, what is the need for this discussion?? you just want to say "MY STATION IS THE BEST". Lower4th . TalK  14:28, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I am sorry for posted here, moved to top. Its a mistake. But "MY BEST STATION"??????? Not understand? I just answered to unknown ips message.

--Bijuts (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I took the liberty to move the above two posts here, to avoid section confusion. Hope the editors won't mind. DileepKS(talk) 03:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Validity of a Reference.

Statement: It is considered as one of the best airport in the country and one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions.

Reference: http://www.hindu.com/2010/11/12/stories/2010111260300300.htm

Arguments:

1. It is a news report of The Kerala Association of Travel Agents petitioning the political leaders for bringing various facilities to the airport. Naturally it is highly biased for the airport.
2. The statement The association claimed that the premier airport was one of the best airports in the country and flights could be operated on all weather conditions does appear in the news report. It is an opinion by the association, who is petitioning for the airport. It is inadmissible as a fact.

Many editors have conceded that the reference is not reliable and statement removed, but some new editors (who did not participate in the discussion) are trying to put the information back, without raising any arguments.

DileepKS(talk) 01:11, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

The association didn't said that directly. They said that the premier airport was one of the best airports in the country and flights could be operated on all weather conditions. It was used as an alternative for Kochi, Karipur and Colombo airports when flights had to be diverted on account of inclement weather. On an average, 300 flights were diverted every year from Karipur and 100 flights from Kochi as per the Civil Aviation Ministry figures. It is published in the newspaper The Hindu and that news paper is always taken as a valid reference.

Most of The Hindu newspaper articles are written by Staff Reporters and it is considered as valid. How do you know that he is biased or not? The the association was petitioning the Chief Minister not some political leaders. Sudheesh s (talk) 09:40, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I have done what is recommended for dispute resolution, ie request for comment. Since all the debating points are made already, I am keeping off from the issue till the WP:RFC process is complete.

DileepKS(talk) 10:00, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

One needs to understand the parameters on which TIA was rated one of the best?

Was it based on -

• Revenue
• Air Traffic
• Passenger Traffic
• Facilities
• Area
• No.of Runways
• No.of ATCs
• Connectivity options
• Access from city and neighboring towns
• Road connectivity
• Accommodation facilities

? Unless otherwise there is a specific parameter, it sounds like a mere opinion used in an appeal to the Govt. Please clarify. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 10:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC) ______________-

No need for this. But some points as you requested.

• Facilities

cafes, bookshops, duty-free shopping centre, free local call facility, lounges, cyber cafes and other amenities.

• Access from city and neighboring towns and Road connectivity

4 lane road known as the Airport highway to connect the city core area with the airport.

The Terminal 3 is at the National Highway 47 bypass and Terminal 1 and 2 are just 5 KM from the bypass and can easily connected by neighboring cities and towns like Kollam, Nagercoil, Kanyakumari etc. Also, the airport is within the city corporation area.

1 km from Thiruvananthapuram Pettah Railway station and 4 KM from Thiruvananthapuram Central station to Terminal 3

• Accommodation facilities

The International terminal (Terminal 3) can accommodate 1,600 passengers at a time and the domestic (Terminal 2) can accommodate 500 passengers at a time.

Some other points

---

Trivandrum International Airport (TIA) is the first Airport of Kerala (started services in October 29, 1935 and changed to international status in 1991), situated south west of Trivandrum City. Located just 4KM (International) and 10km (Domestic) from the city center. The airport is the base for Southern Air Command of Indian Air force. It has a world-class terminal, an aircraft maintenance facility (Nearing completion) etc.

Other advantages is that it is close to the city, railway station and close proximity to the Technopark, Technocity, Infosys IT corridor, the proposed International Container Transhipment Terminal at Vizhinjam, tourism rich destinations like Kovalam, Vizhinjam, Veli, Ponmudi etc.

Also, the city has a climate that borders between a tropical savanna climate and a tropical monsoon climate. As a result it does not experience distinct seasons so flights in airport can operate at any time because there is no bad weather like fog, snowing etc

Scources:expressbuzz.com

The Hindu.com Sudheesh s (talk) 17:02, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Sudheesh, please read Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not and Wikipedia:Citing sources. You need a better understanding on how Wikipedia works.

DileepKS(talk) 00:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

@Sudheesh - Appreciate your efforts! Also would have been nice if you had references for all the above material.

Facilities - Most if not all airports have these facilities - Even railway stations do.

Access from the city - the Chakka-Shanmughom-Airport road is NOT 4-lane! Also, Chakka to T1,T2 is 6KM. Even the Indian Express quoted by you figured that out. 1km from the Pettah station is a tall claim. You don't need to quote newspapers or Google Maps for that, it just requires common sense which is unfortunately not found on most Govt publications either.

Accommodation - I would mean hotels here. Which is the nearest 'stayable' hotel to T1,T2 or T3?

What we are looking for here is an explanation or justification to the line "Best airport". We need specific information on which parameters this rating was given. Unfortunately, your explanation above does not provide that. Thanks - MountainWhiskey (talk) 04:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

@ Mountainwhiskey: What are you doing here? Talk something new. Your silly reply has no value here. I can see that you are just quoting this kind of silly things from the top of the discussion.

""Appreciate your efforts!"" ha ha. and read the links he provided.

and the Airport corridor road is NOT from Chakka to Shanmughom Shankhumugham. It's from Palayam to Shankhumugham and Palayam to Chakka where T3 is situated is 4 lane except the a 0.2 KM stretch through a church cemetery. And Chakka to Shankhumuksam road is 4 laned now. Only a little portion of the road in front of the Aircraft maintenance facility is 2 lane. A new bridge is build at chakka now to make the road totally 4 lane.

And Trivandrum central railway station is 4 KM away and Pettah Railway station is 1 Km away.

from his arguments above, we can see that he was just fighting. You can see that his replay has no value. Because he didn't added any useful content.

will a 'stayable' hotel near the Airport" makes the airport Best?

it is best because, the airport itself is the base of the Southern air command. There is no need for a separate airstrip because the airport has all the facilitates and space to manage that also. The airport has an Aircraft Maintenance facility and tree terminals to manage Cargo, Domestic, and International flights. Other important thing that makes the airport the best is, it is the only all weather airport in the country. Lower4th . TalK  08:09, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Another round of discussion

As the page is now protected, I am initiating another round of discussion to try reach a consensus. All editors, please make your views.

The statement that got flipped back and forth is as follows:

It is the first international airport in the state and one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions.[77] Apart from regular scheduled flights, many chartered flights like First Choice Airways from London Gatwick and Monarch Airlines land here during peak tourist season, thus accelerating Kerala’s growth in becoming a prime tourist destination in India.

I am separating it into the three assertions, which could be treated separately.

Assertion 1 : It is the first international airport in the state.

There is no question about it. It is a well known fact. No reference is needed for that. It must be retained.

Assertion 2 : one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions

This is essentially correct, but not precise to the fact. TRV has a CAT-I equipped runway, which qualifies it as an all-weather and night airport as per DGCA norms. Most of the major airports have that distinction. The real distinctive feature of TRV, compared to COK and CCJ is the prevailing weather pattern at the location. The weather pattern rarely goes to extremes that prevent the operation of flights. As a matter of fact, the airports in TN also have that distinction, along with the ones in the middle region. To be precise and encyclopediac, I suggest the following statement

The airport is qualified for all-weather and night operations. One of the major advantage of the airport is the prevailing weather at the location that does not go to extremes, allowing flight operations without disruption year around

Assertion 3: Apart from regular scheduled flights, many chartered flights like First Choice Airways from London Gatwick and Monarch Airlines land here during peak tourist season, thus accelerating Kerala’s growth in becoming a prime tourist destination in India.

DGCA records http://www.dgca.gov.in/pub/Pubb09-10/chap-5.pdf shows that TRV is no longer a significant destination for charter flights. First Choice and Monarch no longer fly to TRV. However, it is true that charter flights of tourists does land there, as can be seen from the DGCA document. The statement should be re-phrased to align with reality. I suggest the following statement:

Apart from the regular scheduled flights, charter flights, primarily carrying tourists, also serve the airport

Need to find a reference that backs this up however.

That is my take. If we can resolve this, an appeal could be made to remove the protection on the page.

DileepKS(talk) 07:13, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Aarem, Binoy, Samaleks, Lower Fourth, Induzcreed, Sudheesh and any other interested editors. Please comment. DileepKS(talk) 03:37, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Assertion 1 : It is the first international airport in the state.

Your point : "There is no question about it. It is a well known fact. No reference is needed for that. It must be retained."

No reference is needed for that. ???!!!!!! It's a well known fact only in Kerala friend, Wikipedia is used worldwide. In this page, (Wikipedia:Verifiability), it say's The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Keep this in mind always dileep. but reference is already there. so no problem!!!!

Assertion 2 : one of the major advantage of the airport is the flights can be operated on all weather conditions

Your point: "This is essentially correct, but not precise to the fact. TRV has a CAT-I equipped runway, which qualifies it as an all-weather and night airport as per DGCA norms. Most of the major airports have that distinction. The real distinctive feature of TRV, compared to COK and CCJ is the prevailing weather pattern at the location. The weather pattern rarely goes to extremes that prevent the operation of flights. As a matter of fact, the airports in TN also have that distinction, along with the ones in the middle region. To be precise and encyclopediac, I suggest the following statement"

Your new statement : The airport is qualified for all-weather and night operations. One of the major advantage of the airport is the prevailing weather at the location that does not go to extremes, allowing flight operations without disruption year around

well, i think there is no need to mention the city has no extreme bad weather in the airport page. also, do you have any references about the "night operations"?? anyways don't take this as last words. comment's from more experienced users or users have knowledge about the city is needed.

Assertion 3: Comment's from more experienced users or users have knowledge about the city is needed. Lower4th . TalK  04:25, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

The Calicut airport page http://www.aai.aero/public_notices/CALICUT_amendment.pdf says The aerodrome is licensed for use in IFR (all weather) condition..

The AAI FAQ at http://www.aai.aero/public_notices/aaisite_test/faq_Gen.jsp says However, only Instrument Flight Rules airports (Airports equipped with all weather day and night operational capability) can be permitted to be used for night operations.

The DGCA licensing procedure at http://dgca.gov.in/manuals/ProceMan_Aero.pdf says 3.3 Is a licence for NIGHT USE/ ALL WEATHER required? and 15. The aerodrome is licensed for use in IFR (All weather) / VFR (Day) conditions.

So, according to the authorities, all weather means IFR qualification. IFR qualification can be verified for any airport from its technical page from AAI.

Hope it is clear.

DileepKS(talk) 06:19, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

OK, so my opinion is given below:.

Assertion 2 can be written as "The airport is qualified for all-weather and night operations. One of the major advantage of the airport is the prevailing weather at the location that does not go to extremes, allowing flight operations without disruption year around".

Assertion 3: since there is no reference about the "First Choice Airways from London Gatwick and Monarch Airlines", it can be written as "Apart from the regular scheduled flights, charter flights, primarily carrying tourists, also serve the airport".

it's only my opinion. other editors comments needed, especially from experienced editors. Lower4th . TalK  11:47, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Lower fourth. --Samaleks (talk) 01:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Circular reference removed.

The rediff article on India's hottest IT destinations, [[2]] is a circular reference. It is dated March 5th 2010.

The old version of this article [[3]] dated 1 Sep 2006 shows the same text, and it essentially continued throughout the history.

The ref is removed. The assertion is not removed, because the other refs show 75% exports from Technopark.

DileepKS(talk) 04:42, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

There is no proof that the rediff ref is a circular one. It says about the IT export, and not a copy from wikipedia. Are you the editor in rediff to make such assertions? Please do not start edit war again; you are very nororious for editwarring. Thank you, Sunil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.160.9 (talk) 09:06, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

The proof is in the text. The rediff article, dated March 2010, have text that is copied from the article dating back to 2006. Evidently, rediff editor copied the text from the Wikipedia article. That is called circular reference which is unacceptable as reference.

DileepKS(talk) 09:23, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice joke. Are there many ways to say the simple sentence "city contributes 80 per cent of software exports from Kerala."? It is a FACT and it is there in the article. And Trivandrum was selected as one of the hottest IT destination in INDIA because of many these kind of factors. If you keep on doing your edit-warring, I will add another sentence there, stating Trivandrum is one of the hottest IT destinations in India, and will quote that ref. I dont see any other way to handle with BIASED and CLUELESS editors like you. Thankyou, Sunil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.160.9 (talk) 10:24, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Statements removed, and the reason

The following statements are removed, which are reinstated by IP Editor 192.193.160.9. I am listing the reasons, so that it could be discussed.

1. Due to the strategic importance of the city, the Indian Air Force authorities have planned to establish an aerospace command in SAC. The reference is a news clip from 2005. No action is being taken on this, and it is not even an active proposal. There is news that the govt is not keen in doing this. This is just a forward looking statement that is no longer valid. It must be removed.

2. The plan for setting up a new "Tri-Service Command", which will integrate all the three forces under a single command, is also in the pipeline. This also have seen no action. IT must be removed.

3. Exports of perishables and medicines from Trivandrum International Airport run to full capacity on the daily flights to Maldives and Sri Lanka. Citation was sought in February. None was provided. Web searched yielded no supporting information. This must be removed, unless a reference could be provided.

4. The reference [[4]] have text directly copied from the article dating back to 2006, making it a circular reference. It is inadmissible as a reference, and must be removed.

IP Editor 192.193.160.9 has not given any acceptable argument, except allegation of bias, the threat of edit war. Please provide valid reasons for reinstating the removed text/ref in each of the cases.

DileepKS(talk) 11:13, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice joke. Are there many ways to say the simple sentence "city contributes 80 per cent of software exports from Kerala."? It is a FACT and it is there in the article. And Trivandrum was selected as one of the hottest IT destination in INDIA because of many these kind of factors. If you keep on doing your edit-warring, I will add another sentence there, stating Trivandrum is one of the hottest IT destinations in India, and will quote that ref. I dont see any other way to handle with BIASED and CLUELESS editors like you. Thankyou, Sunil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.160.9 (talk) 10:24, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

DileepKS is back here, again edit-warring. Now his meat puppets may also come out of the shell.
For points one and two, how you know no actions are taken yet ? The news clip says it is in the pipeline. This is not a kindergarten business, that will get completed as soon the decissions are made. This is India, my friend, and the project executions may take longer time.
Since it talks about projects on pipeline, it will remain in the article, as long you can prove that those projects are dropped.

For point 3, i wish you construct positively rather than destructively. You could have checked yourself before removing sentences.
Point 4, is not a circular reference. Who told that is circular ref? YOU? What you expect from other editors? Since you are telling so, we should concur? Rediff links says 80% of the software exports of Kerala are from Tvm. Since it is a FACT, they had given that sentence. It is childish to claim circular reference for that.
For eg; Many sources says Trivandrum is the capital of Kerala. Since the same is mentioned in wiki, would you call the source a circular ref, for the simple reason that the source is updated after the wiki page? --Samaleks (talk) 17:13, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

IAF proposed an aerospace command, but the Ministry of Defence did not approve. There had been no action on that thereafter. It had been six years thence.

Also, the tri-service command proposal was in fact an extension of the aerospace command proposal, as evident from its reference that says Earlier, there was a proposal to set up an Aerospace Command here, Air Marshal Savur said, adding that on account of the larger responsibility it had been decided to integrate all the three forces under a single command. .

I suggest the following statement based on this. Due to the strategic importance of the city, the Indian Air Force authorities have proposed to establish a "Tri-Service Command" , which will integrate all the three forces under a single command to take responsibility of the military aspects of space.

Issue 3, yes, I did search. I always do the research before taking action. There are no sources justifying the statement. After the search, the citation request was placed. Now almost two months passed, and no one provided a ref. As per the norms at Wikipedia, a statement that fails to get a sought reference must be removed.

Issue 4: I call it circular because most of the text is directly lifted from the article. If it was just the statement about software exports, it would have been given the benefit of doubt.

And it is NOT a CURRENT fact, my dear sir. It WAS in 2006. As per data of year 2009-10, it is 66%. The ONLY documentary support it has is the Economic Review that copy/paste the old information and claim Technopark does 75%. This misinformation is being worked upon, but as per the norms of Wikipedia it does stand as valid as of now.

To make it clear, I am not asking to remove the statement, but only the reference, which is circular.

DileepKS(talk) 04:58, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Who told it is 66% ? Again YOU!! do you have any valid ref for that ? Dont act kiddy here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.160.9 (talk) 05:08, 21 April 2011 (UTC) YOu provide the proof that the plans by IAF is dropped. Dont try to promote your wet dreams. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.160.9 (talk) 05:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

The 66% is calculated from official data provided by SEZ and STPI authority(who track the exports from SEZ and non SEZ respectively). But the calculated result would be inadmissible as reference for the article, because even though the data is reliable, the calculation arriving at 66% is original research.

IAF haven't dropped the proposal yet, hence the suggested edit. Also, it is very clear from the ref that the tri-service command proposal is a newer avatar of the older aerospace command proposal.

DileepKS(talk) 05:36, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Dei Payyans.. You please come with some valid points to support your fight here :-) If IFA have'nt dropped the proposal, there is nothing grammatically wrong in the current statement in the article. It is also conveying the same meaning. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.164.9 (talk) 12:25, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I would appreciate you being civil in the discussions. Please read up on WP:Etiquette.

No, it doesn't convey the same meaning. Where does it say or even imply the proposal is due to the strategic importance of the city? Also, the tri-service command is a newer version of the original aerospace command proposal, as clearly mentioned in the reference itself. You are just adding nuisance value to bona fide edits, which is evident from the slander you have, and often in the past had, used.

And does this response mean you agree on the other two points? Please clarify on them.

DileepKS(talk) 02:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

he...he..... he just want to prove "this city has no strategic importance"!!!!! for that he is doing all these. Old Man, when will you change??? Better you want seek medical attention.... seriously... don't take it as personal... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.15.2.9 (talk) 09:47, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear IP 49.15.2.9. Do you have any argument to present on the edits, other than the alleged motive? If so, please present them. Thanks. DileepKS(talk) 10:49, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Well; I see DileepKS69 is again back with his edit-wars. I am now fed up seeing he and his meat puppets always arguing vigorously over very silly things, and drag the argument for weeks and months.

Coming to the points, the present state of the article is correct, and I STRONGLY OPPOSE the suggestions made by Dileep. The reasons are well evident from the argument provided by other editors here. I need not repeat them. Even if I repeat, Dileep is gonna beat around the bush. --Samaleks (talk) 11:50, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

That only means you have no arguments. the points are clearly made. Refute if you can/want. DileepKS(talk) 12:03, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Point 1: Due to the strategic importance of the city, the Indian Air Force authorities have planned to establish an aerospace command in SAC. The reference is a news clip from 2005. No action is being taken on this, and it is not even an active proposal. There is news that the govt is not keen in doing this. This is just a forward looking statement that is no longer valid. It must be removed.

1)Due to the strategic importance of the city, the Indian Air Force authorities have planned to establish an aerospace command in SAC.- OK

2)The reference is a news clip from 2005. -That's also. OK

3)No action is being taken on this, and it is not even an active proposal..- How do you know that? Are you any personal in SAC? If so, NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH HERE

4)There is news that the govt is not keen in doing this. - That say's its active.

5)This is just a forward looking statement that is no longer valid. - Again, How do you know that? Are you any personal in SAC? If so, NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH HERE

Point 2: The plan for setting up a new "Tri-Service Command", which will integrate all the three forces under a single command, is also in the pipeline. This also have seen no action. IT must be removed.

1)The plan for setting up a new "Tri-Service Command", which will integrate all the three forces under a single command, is also in the pipeline. - OK

2)This also have seen no action. - Again, How do you know that? Are you any personal in SAC? If so, NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH HERE.

Point 3: Exports of perishables and medicines from Trivandrum International Airport run to full capacity on the daily flights to Maldives and Sri Lanka. Citation was sought in February. None was provided. Web searched yielded no supporting information. This must be removed, unless a reference could be provided.

1)Exports of perishables and medicines from Trivandrum International Airport run to full capacity on the daily flights to Maldives and Sri Lanka. - OK

2)Citation was sought in February.- Ok.

3)None was provided. - Ya, that's true.

4)Web searched yielded no supporting information. - Mmm, i dont know....

5)This must be removed, unless a reference could be provided. - There is no special law to remove all unreferenced content. We can't say it is correct or not directly. That's why Citation was sought there. If everyone knows it is false it will be removed from there instead of asking citation. A reader can understand that. That sentence will not affect any problem to the world.

Point 4: The reference [5] have text directly copied from the article dating back to 2006, making it a circular reference. It is inadmissible as a reference, and must be removed.

1:The reference [6] have text directly copied from the article dating back to 2006, making it a circular reference. So what? There is two more references which shows it's true. If you think its wrong, give the latest reports. And remember, NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH.

And this time, please don't repeat your previous reasons here. I don't want to repeat all these once more. Cheers, Regards, Thank you... Lower4th . TalK  05:28, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanx for the rational arguments, Lower.

Points 1 and 2: The reference of point 2 clearly states that the tri-service command proposal is an extension of the older aerospace command. This fact MUST be mentioned in the article. Also, there is no reference for the strategic importance of the city from the citations. Please obtain them before that could be asserted. The two statements must be combined to reflect the fact as evidenced by the second reference.

Point 3: You are wrong. Wikipedia demands all information to be referenced. An editor have the right to seek one, and to demand the unreferenced information to be removed. You yourself (and many other editors too) have used that upon my edits in the past. You can't interpret rules to suit your POV. It doesn't matter how trivial the assertion is, still you must provide verifiable reference.

Point 4: The ref is acceptable for the statement of fourth hottest destination, so I am dripping the argument on that.

DileepKS(talk) 11:00, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought of staying away from this. Anyways, let me put my 2 cents.
1. and 2. Triservice command and aerospace command are not the same thing. Both are differnt things. Aerospace would be directly under the control of the AirForce. A fully fledged aerospace needs support from army and navy as well. The Tri-service command need not be under the full control of the AirForce. The CO for this is more likely to be on a rotation basis between army, nave and airforce (like the strategic forces command). Even though the proposal to setup a Tri-Service Command in Trivandrum might have originated from the proposed Aerospace command there, both are different things. So, I feel that the sentences need not be merged. The current sentences are good enough to convey the information.
3. An information added without a valid reference can be challenged and removed. So, Dileep may challenge / remove the sentence in question if you feel that it is not a Correct Information.
Thats all from me.. I am not going to pitch in again for counter arguments. Cheers; -- Aarem ^(Talk)

The cited reference for 2 says Earlier, there was a proposal to set up an Aerospace Command here, Air Marshal Savur said, adding that on account of the larger responsibility it had been decided to integrate all the three forces under a single command. Isn't it enough evidence that the Tri Service command is the newer avatar of the Aerospace Command? Doesn't this aspect need to be made clear?

DileepKS(talk) 11:55, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear Dileepks,

3)Yes, i know Wikipedia demands all information to be referenced. But for removing the unreferenced info, it must have to cause some harm to the society,...... etc OR some one have to challenge to remove it from the article. Usually, editors challenge very serious problems to remove it from the article if it cause some serious problems. Because there is BILLIONS of UN CITED content is in Wikipedia. How can all those can be removed? I don't know why you are trying this hard to remove that silly thing. It will not harm anyone. Do you believe it is not true? (it you provide that info, it would be easy to remove). "Citation required" tag is there and anyone can understand it is not completely true and if you give time anyone in the future (NOT SO FAR) would add the info.

And Wikilaws are Laws. I just mentioned the above thing. If you think it is not true, you can remove.

1&2) Yes it's true "Earlier, there was a proposal to set up an Aerospace Command here, Air Marshal Savur said, adding that on account of the larger responsibility it had been decided to integrate all the three forces under a single command." But The Hindu which is more reliable than Web India 123.com published the same news on the next day stating that, The chances of establilshing a tri-services command in the capital as a pre-cursor to a full-fledged aerospace command were also high.

Here it is:[7] Lower4th . TalK  13:34, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

lower fourth and cronies Please use civil language This is a global encyclopaedia not your coconut backyard. Lower fourth - yes it does not harm society nor does it benefit society So get rid of your crappy nonsense cos nobody is interested in our small world.

Dear LowerFourth. There is no Wiki concept of harmless material. WP:Verifiability clearly states that a reference is REQUIRED when CHALLENGED. The triviality of the claim is immaterial. I CHALLENGE that claim, and demand it be removed.

That Hindu ref is an excellent one, please re-phrase the claims according to that. There is no mention of strategic importance of the CITY anywhere. So, that must be removed. I propose the following edit based on the provided reference:

A Tri-Service command is proposed at the city, which would be expanded to a full fledged aerospace command. Proximity to international sea-routes and various facilities of the Indian Space Department gave the capital an edge over other cities to host the command

And no unverifiable claims please.

DileepKS(talk) 03:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Dileep, Donot try to push your POV here. As Aarem said, Triservice command and Aerospace command are different things. From the citation it is evident that because of the proposal for an aerospace command there, setting up a Triservice command for greater responsibility is more easier. This doesnt means Aerospace command proposal is dropped and only Triservice command proposal stands.

Also, I am not understanding what is the problem with you on the strategic importance of the city? It is mentioned in the citation that setting up the command is because of the strategic importance of SAC.

Dileep, You are a Kochi booster and Trivandrum hater. Please go back to your forums like KochiNow and Skyscrapercity, if you cannot agree on consensus here. Regards, Sunil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.160.10 (talk) 04:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Strategic importance of SAC is NOT equal to strategic importance of CITY. And the reference doesn't say that the tri-service or aerospace command is happening because of the strategic importance either. And motives doesn't matter at Wikipedia. Verifiable facts does.

The two claims do not reflect the facts as available from the reference. They MUST be modified, whether it fits your POV or not.

DileepKS(talk) 05:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Ha ha.. Nice argument. The SAC is not in the CITY ? The strategic importance of the SAC came bacause of the location; which is the same that of the CITY. Please don't act stupid here. Wish you were mature enough to understand what all others are saying here. Regards, Sunil —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.164.9 (talk) 08:24, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Calling someone stupid is not good wikiquette. The mention of strategic importance in the reference is not in context with the tri-service commands, and talking about location, SAC could very well have been at pretty much any place around the southern tip and served the same purpose. Nothing city specific about it. There is no evidence of the strategic importance of the city being mentioned in connection with the city, hence that assertion must go.

DileepKS(talk) 09:10, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear Dileep, Please dont be stubborn. I really do not see any fairness in your suggestion. The strategic importance of the city lies in the fact that SAC is situated there. The city is close to international shipping route and air route. And being a capital city in such a location is its strategic importance. And it is due to this importance, the proposal was made to set up the commands there. Your argument, if SAC was in any other place, is irrelevant because SAC is in Trivandrum. We need not guess about if and then to contribute in wiki. I hope the discussion ends here. There are pretty more important things to do here. Cheers, -- Aarem ^(Talk) 11:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Aarem, the issue here is that the claims do not reflect what the references say. It would be too much of a tall claim to call "Due to the strategic importance of the city" based on what the references detail. The ref only says SAC have a chance of getting the proposed commands. We don't get any lead to justify the claim. If you wouldn't mind, propose a re-phrase considering the arguments raised.

About point 3, removal of uncited assertion doesn't really need any consensus. I am going to remove the statement on cargo flights, unless a reference is provided within 24 hours. Enough time had been given already, but the only argument we see is about the motive and/or triviality of the information, both of which are irrelevant.

DileepKS(talk) 06:28, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Man, the news paper report i mentioned above says, Proximity to international sea-routes and various facilities of the Indian Space Department gave the capital an edge over other cities.

An ordinary person can understand it is the strategic importance. It is the biggest city i the deep south of India and the biggest factor is it not an ordinary city, it is the Capital.

And how can the strategic importance of SAC will not be the strategic importance of the city? Man, SAC is in the city. Their technical center is about 6 KM from the city center and the proposed command is at Aakulam which is only about 4 - 5 KMs from the City center. And from the news paper report's its proven. Lower4th . TalK  15:17, 27 April 2011 (UTC)