Talk:The Verve/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Trivia section

Is anyone working on integrating the trivia section into the article? I'm willing to give it a go, but don't want to disturb other peoples work. Wynand.singels 09:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Changed 'alternative rock' to simply 'rock' because alternative rock is a genre used in the US where the music industry seems to be tediously obsessed with identifying every single band with a genre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.103.58.34 (talk) 11:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Oxegen Image

This article may be enhanced by one of my images located at Oxegen 2008. There is one there currently (taken by another user) but there are actually a total of two on Wikipedia. --➨♀♂Candlewicke ST # :) 11:35, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Not English?

User "A Chain Of Flowers" is repeatedly changing the English description to British for no apparent reason. No agreement has been made for this change anywhere, despite their repeated claims. The English description has been in place for a very long time, this user has for some reason taken it upon themselves to change it and won't accept it being reverted back to the apparent general consensus. The majority of articles use English/Scotish/Welsh descriptions instead of British as it is more informative. I see no reason for this article being any exception when all the band members are English.

92.14.120.53 (talk) 12:14, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

This article stands on its own, and how other articles - and the editors on those articles - choose to describe the subject of those articles is of limited relevance here.
Secondly, please assume good faith - edit summaries in which you accuse an editor of lying are not acceptable.
Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 12:26, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, this editor is repeatedly claiming that there has been an agreement when there hasn't - I don't see how you can assume good faith in that respect. One user is trying to change the description with no real reason to do so and I do believe how descriptions are used in other articles to be very relevant, especially when there is nothing in the history of The Verve to suggest they are not English.

92.14.120.53 (talk) 14:02, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It's entirely possible to raise the matter with the editor in question - either here or on their talk page - without accusing them of lying. How do you know there hasn't been an agreement? I can't see any such agreement on this talk page, but that doesn't mean that such agreement doesn't exist - until you discuss the matter with the other editor - in a civil manner - we simply won't know. Until there's been some form of discussion accusing another editor of "lying" is a breach of good faith and the civil behaviour expected among colleagues.
I agree that the history of the band is relevant; I do not however believe that other articles are remotely relevant. Some bands and acts prefer to be considered English, others don't. Some bands are internationally considered to be British, while others shout their Englishness from the rooftops. Again, this is a matter for consensus on this talk page, not slavishly copying one or more other article's approach. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 14:15, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
I do apologise for being bold in the reverts, but since this article has been created the definition of the band has always been British, and under WP:UKNATIONALS, I chose to follow the guidelines and go with the formality that that has always been present within the article, giving the impression that at one point or another, it as agreed upon.
Besides, defining a band under a single nationality is always going have people disagreeing - For example, the (apparently) Scottish band Franz Ferdinand were all born out of Scotland, to my understanding, yet because they lived in Scotland and met in Glasgow, they are classed as a Scottish band.
It all comes down to circumstance. British would be best used here as a sort of umbrella term that would cover both English AND inhabitants of the UK, pleasing both parties.
Also, I'd like to ask you to leave me a message and give me time to respond before you accuse me of harsh editing in the future - --A Chain Of Flowers (talk) 16:25, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
It has been a week and still no comment back. I'll change it back to British as detailed in my above reasoning. A Chain of Flowers 15:41, 5 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by A Chain Of Flowers (talk • contribs)

Primal Scream are described as a Scottish band and Bullet For My Valentine are described as a Welsh band, so why shouldn't The Verve be described as an English band? Kohran (talk) 11:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Look at my above comments...--A Chain of Flowers (talk) 15:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I already read your comments and still no reason why Primal Scream and Franz Ferdinand should be referred to as Scottish yet The Verve should be referred to as British. Shouldn't one rule apply to all bands? If pretty much all other British bands on here are referred to as Scottish or Welsh, or indeed English (see Iron Maiden or the Stones) then surely The Verve must be identified in the same way?

You state British would be best used here as a sort of umbrella term that would cover both English AND inhabitants of the UK, pleasing both parties, but the problem with this is that the two sides want the band to be referred to as British OR specifically English - you chosing British does not please the 'English party' at all. Yes, British potentially covers English but it does not specify it, which is what the English party wants.

I think we should hold some kind of vote on the issue. Kohran (talk) 17:35, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Comment: comparisons with Primal Scream and Franz Ferdinand, and "one rule for all bands", suggests you should probably read this essay - basically (and it's been stated above, so you should be familiar with it) there isn't one rule for all bands; descriptions are decided individually, i.e. on a per band basis, and the argument that "some other article does is this way so this article should too" is rarely a valid argument. (And, incidentally, our goal here isn't to please "the English party").
That said, the criteria I'd use for "British" vs. "English" are:
  • Is the band widely known internationally? If so, are they known as an English band or a British band? (To some degree this may depend on region, and in any event should be supported by references from reliable sources);
  • Does the band self-identify as an English band or as a British band? (again, this should be supported by reliable references).
My instinct says "British", because they're comparatively modern, and in the last decade or so bands have tended to identify more as English than British - but my instinct isn't a valid criteria ;-)
Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 17:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

(And, incidentally, our goal here isn't to please "the English party") I didn't state it was. What I was taking issue with was the statement that 'British' would somehow please people who wanted it to be 'English' merely because 'British' could cover English (I hope you can see the contradiction there).

If so, are they known as an English band or a British band? Well, that's impossible to say. Most media, particularly in America, uses 'English' and 'British' fairly interchangeably. I've seen both applied to The Verve.

Does the band self-identify as an English band or as a British band? (again, this should be supported by reliable references). Now we might get somewhere with this. Check the Verve interview page and see what Richard says inthe articles:

'I remember when Chuck D first came over to England, every one of our papers had something about Princess Di's new haricut. And he's coming from a neighbourhood where kids are gettin' shot on the corner. I mean, I love England.'

'I don't want to be a spokesman, but there's still a lot of untapped ground in England.'

Clearly he identifies himself as coming from England. I don't know what the rest of the band think of themselves as, but surely the frontman's opinion must carry some weight? Kohran (talk) 16:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, re: "the English Party" - our goal isn't to please any party - it's to write what's verifiable - apologies if my comment didn't come across like that.
Regarding the rest of your comment, I'm not sure we should pay too much attention to the US confusion between England and Britain ;-) We're writing for an international audience, after all. That's arguably moot, however, given...
...Richard's views, I'd be minded to veer towards "English" - his quote is verifiable (and I'd agree that as frontman his opinion carries more weight that other band members).
Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:41, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Richard is referring to the country "England", not his nationality necessarily, and England is PART of the UK, so of course he's going to refer to it as such. Look, this "disagreement" has gone on long enough. If you're willing to prowl the depths of the internet for some kind of indication of the bands Nationality, instead of using Wikipedia Guidelines on the subject, then it's an obvious reference that this has gone on too far. I'm officially OUT of this argument. Good day --A Chain of Flowers (talk) 13:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear me. Who rattled your cage?

Well, if you're out of this 'argument' and the other person and myself are leaning towards English, then I see no reason for it to remain British. Anyone who disagrees in future is welcome to raise the issue again here and I'll be happy to discuss it. Kohran (talk) 14:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

What is this?

It seems to be a common habit of English Wikipedia to have long historical information on the band, rather than anything important like stylistic information and descriptions of live performances etc. What is this? Is this some kind of mad policy? I am very disappointed and I want to get information here for Afrikaans Wikipedia but at this quality the English Wikipedia is really letting me down!  — Adriaan (T★C) 18:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Since when was historical information not important?
There is plenty of stylistic information on this page, and describing all the live performances would be impossible (apart from the big important gigs). Kohran (talk) 11:34, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
The emphasis the English Wikipedia generally puts on trivial historical information on musical artists seems to be a bit unbalanced. I would have thought an encyclopaedic entry on a musician or musical entity should at least contain scientifically worded informations on the style and musical technique of the band, rather than neverending descriptions of where the band went, when who got pregnant, when this and that was fired and when the band said something controversial. But if this is acceptable, then I accept that. It is after all your Wikipedia project, not mine. I would have just liked to request useful information we can take over into our own project. This causes a lot of extra research for us to be done. — Adriaan (T★C) 13:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
It's also, in some cases, due to our inability to reference genre, stylistic information etc. There are a number of articles about singers where the singer's voice can't be described as, say, soprano, (even though most readers accept that the singer has a soprano singing voice) because a reliable source hasn't described the singer's voice as being soprano. I'd imagine that's partly the case here (note that other languages' Wikipedias will have different policy on things like this). Cheers, TFOWRThis flag once was red 15:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay I see what you're getting at now. Well the comments above explain some of the problem - given the strict fact-based approach of this site, and the need to cite almost everything that's written, describing something like the 'style' of a band is tricky. Also keep in mind that describing a style of music can easily descend into POV - one person's interpretation of something can be very different to another's. Finally, yes there is a lot of biographical information on this page, but this page is about the band itself - information on musical style is more appropriate for album/song pages (if you look at them you should find at least some style information).

I will bear this in mind though, perhaps in the future we could go into musical style a bit more.Kohran (talk) 10:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Emile is the coolist

instead of a text band name

--- Stamped July 11, 2006


Added the result of the Rolling Stones lawsuits (had to resist the urge to say "Verve fans continue to decry the results of the lawsuit while failing to realize the cretinous morons in Verve brought it on themselves) and toned down the hero-worship a little.

What was the result of the lawsuit?

--- Added a little to explain that. Hope its OK as it's my first contribution. batch


Batch: I like the additions. I previously left that detail out, but I think it's good for the readers to know what happened. As long as we prevent a negative POV from surfacing in our contributions I think it's informative for readers to understand just a little about what happened between the Verve and the Rolling Stones

-- TheSunTheSea 03:34, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wigan is a town, not a city - Wiganner.

Wigan being a town, not a city, although true, is totally irrelevant to this subject, because The Verve are not from Wigan. The members actually dislike being called Wiganers as none of them are.


How can The Verve have no Wigan connections? Ashcroft was born in Billinge Hospital which was in the Billinge area of Wigan (not the village of Billinge in Merseyside). The authors feelings toward this point are irrelevant as the article must refect accurate descriptions of locations connected to the band. Mention should be made of the opinion of the band regarding Wigan, but must not remove or alter accurate points.

  • None of the members of The Verve are from Wigan. Ashcroft is from Skelmersdale, regardless of the hospital he was born in. The bands opinion of Wigan is not relevant to the article on the band and their success. Someone who attends a college, somewhere near to Wigan (Winstanley) does not automatically become a native of Wigan. That is a most ridiculous idea.
  • Winstanley College is not in Winstanley. It is 3 miles from Wigan town centre. Ashcroft was born in Billinge Hospital which makes him a Wiganer. End of discussion.

Why is it called 'Winstanley College' then and not Wigan College? I'll tell you why, because it's in Winstanley, that's why. Wigan doesn't keep going, and going, on and on. Pemberton is in between Winstanley and Wigan. Wigan starts where the sign says 'Wigan'. You won't know this though, if you are a Wiganer, because most Wiganers can't read!

  • online interview. Nick McCabe, asked about the Verve gig at Haigh Hall ....

AS: Right – you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show... McCabe: Well, not really…none of us are actually from Wigan... AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? ... McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it?


  • You really are an ignorant person aren't you?

I shall post these facts just like I did in the Wigan discussion page

First of all, well done for deliberately missing out important information on your Nick McCabe quote. The full quote is here:-

"AS: Right ? you wanted it to be special because it was your homecoming show. McCabe: Well, not really?none of us are actually from Wigan. AS: Verve have always been known as a Wigan band? McCabe: Well, it's another one of those myths, isn't it? I guess there's some truth to it because the band was formed in Wigan. But no one was born there. We all met in college there."

Link: http://www.excellentonline.com/article.php3?story_id=786

PROOF that they formed in Wigan and therefore have Wigan connections. Those words come from Mccabes own mouth.

Now seeing as we are using quotes from the internet, lets go to The Verves OFFICIAL site. On the front page it clearly states the words:-

"The Verve, from Wigan were formed in 1990"

Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/

This is the OFFICIAL site front main page don’t forget. If you also visit the biography page on this official site then you get the following words:-

"The Verve, from Wigan in Lancashire"

Link:- http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?biography=1

Also on the The Verves official site Richard Ashcroft tells us when he rented a flat in Wigan:-

“When we signed a deal, we got a stash of money. I rented a flat in Wigan and in that flat we just had the most ridiculously indulgent, decadent six months”

Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=IV010

In another part of this website, they have a few quotes from journalists who reviewed their albums, one of the quotes is:-

"A selection of echoed-out acoustic versions and firing US remixes from the Wigan weirdos"

Link: http://www.theverve.co.uk/Qevent.cgi?q_e_id=R009

Now surely if this band hated Wigan and wanted nothing to do with Wigan then they would not even want the word Wigan quoted on their own website.


Richard Ashcroft, Simon Jones and Peter Salisbury met at Upholland High School

Address:- Upholland High School, Sandbrook Road, WIGAN

Link: http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/reports/119/119751.pdf

They then met Nick Mcabe and formed the band at Winstanley College

Address:- Winstanley College, Winstanley Rd, Billinge, WIGAN

Link: http://www.axcis.co.uk/47925.html

As for the argument futher up this page about Billinge Hospital, the full address of this place is (or more accurately I should say “was” is it no longer exists)

Adress:- Billinge Hospital Upholland Rd, Billinge, WIGAN

Link: http://www.192.com/directory.cfm/WIGAN/HOSPITAL/XB844094CA4A242C0B1B028F24A050FB7


Right, I have quoted links from “the verves” official site but everyone knows that they no longer exist, meaning that site won’t be updated very often, so lets now move on to Richard Ashcroft’s official site as he is now having success as a solo artist.

On the biography page of Richard Ashcroft’s OFFICIAL site, the following quote is mentioned:-

“Verve, a psychedelic rock band he'd formed with three mates at Winstanley College in Wigan”

also mentioned on the same page is the following quote:-

“Ashcroft watched with immense pleasure as his hometown club Wigan Athletic, with whom he played as a junior, have risen to Premiership prominence”

link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/aboutBiography.php

Also on Richard Ashcrofts official site is a section of media press cuttings that have been kept, showing past interviews with Richard and articles on his success.

I will show a few links of these articles along with quotes mentioning Wigan

1. Daily Mail - 20th Jan 06

“Since then, the 34-year-old from Wigan has flattered to deceive"

link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/DailyMail20jan06.jpg

2. Glamour Magazine - March 06

“Though the band, who met at college in their hometown of Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/GlamourMarch06-2.jpg

3. Q magazine – Feb 06

“Born 11th September in Billinge, Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-4.jpg

“In 1998 the verve played a huge show in their hometown, Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-5.jpg

“there’s a part of me that wants to pull up outside me school in Wigan”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/QFeb06-6.jpg

4. Telegraph Magazine – Jan 06

“Growing up in Wigan, Ashcroft was mad for football”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg

“Before their second gig, supporting a more established Wigan band, Ashcroft declared in the local paper in his first interview, ‘we’re gonna blow ‘em off the stage! This town ain’t big enough for the both of us!’”

“I used to arrive in London sometimes at the record company with no shoes, on the bus from Wigan”

“neglecting to pay the rent on his Wigan flat”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/TelegraphMagazine14jan06-3.jpg

5. Wigan Observer – May 06

“If you’re talking about Wigan as the place that inspired me, it was the people that inspired me, It was the people that I loved”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-1.jpg

“As a kid from Wigan at the age of 17, I had a dream to play a gig in London”

“The Verve’s 1998 35,000 people extravaganza at Haigh Hall, should have become an annual music fetival which will put Wigan on the world music map. ‘Haigh is a very special place to me’ he said. ‘My Mum used take me for walks in the plantations, hand in hand, magical place. That’s why we chose it in 1998’”

Link: http://www.richardashcroft.com/includes/media/press/WiganObserverMay06-2.jpg


If that’s still not enough then you can actually hear richard Ashcroft interviewed on the Chris Moyles (BBC Radio 1 DJ) show podcast. Exactly 21 minutes and 15 seconds into the podcast Richard is talking about playing his first tour of America at Lollapalooza and states the following:-

“playing football with Tibetan monks at the age of 21 from Wigan in places in America that Americans don’t know about”

Link: http://ia301106.us.archive.org/3/items/ChrisMoylesBestof_BestofMoyles_14_07_2006/bestofmoyles_20060714-0700_40_pc.mp3 (This link is a direct download of the podcast)

There are more links I can provide but there is enough evidence here to clearly prove the connections between The Verve, Richard Ashcroft and Wigan.

So from now on please don’t mention that The Verve have nothing to do with Wigan, please don't mention that The Verve are not a Wigan group, please don’t mention that Richard Ashcroft dislikes Wigan and please do not remove Richard Ashcroft from the “notable people” section on the Wikipedia Wigan page.


  • NONE of the band members of The Verve originate from Wigan. The band members met at college, 3 miles from Wigan but under Wigan Authority. They practised in Wigan, as well as other places. They played early gigs in Wigan, as well as other places. None of them ever lived in Wigan. Hmmmm....... I'd say they are a band from the North West of England.
  • Are those few ignorant self-opinionated sentances supposed to disprove the FACTS that this guy has posted above ? OK you don't like Wigan... who cares, but saying The Verve aren't from Wigan is like saying Oasis aren't from Manchester because they were all born in the suburbs of Manc and not in the city centre. Any reader of this site with a brain can see that people like you who probably live in some nearby 'rival' town (or more likely a small village) just don't like the place and try to disprove anything about Wigan producing something good. I suppose Wigan RL isn't Wigan either because all the players don't all come from Wigan ?

Saying that they practiced in Wigan "and other places" so they aren't from Wigan is like saying the Beatles aren't from Liverpool because they were all from the suburbs around Liverpool city centre and not all born in the cavern club. If the guitarist is from Haydock and the singer & bass player are from up-holland and they met in the centre of Wigan, rehearsed there, lived there and then got signed - i'd pretty much say that makes them a Wigan band whether certain idiots like it or not. But hey, don't believe what I say or anyone else on wikipedia, just go to the offical verve websites for the facts/truth.

THE VERVE: There were enough people around in Wigan in the early 1990s to remember the verve starting off in Wigan ie: practicing in Wigan practice rooms and gigging regularly in Wigan at 'the mill at the pier' with the tansads etc. Obviously they played 'other towns' too like any band tries to but Wigan was their base. I was at wigan technical college at the time and remember it clearly. I first became aware of them when my mate pointed out the bands first single in Alans records in Wigan (no one else ie: HMV, was selling it at the time) it had a pic of the band sat in Wigan park. Myself and loads of other Wiganners went supporting them at Reading Festival in 1994 and I bet Jemmy H wouldn't have minded them being refered to as a Wigan band back then when they were relatively unknown... however now they're famous he takes great trouble, time & effort (and now even uses alias names) to dispute this fact on Wikipedia and other sites.

This page is for people, (Wikipedia quote): "either from, or with SIGNIFICANT CONNECTIONS TO THE TOWN" - Regardless of what I have already said above, for the band to do their HOMECOMING gig in Wigan in 1998 is enough reason alone for them to be listed here. The individual members each have a wikipedia page with their exact birth location (just like "Manchester Band" - The Stone Roses, born in Warrington/Altrincham/Cheshire etc but no one is disputing the Stone Roses Manchester connection.

Some people are bitter towards Wigan (especially those from nearby towns) and would like the place to remain known nationally for nothing other than George Formby and pies but this is not the case, the town has much more character and talent but because it isn't a city like Manchester it doesn't get the recognition or outside interest that it often deserves. People like Jemmy H are just contributing to this pointless negativity and should grow up, forget about 1970's boundries and get up to date. Wigan, like many other northern towns has grown and moved on from the days of coal mining... maybe its time you did as well JemmyH. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.132.231 (talk) 21:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I am glad the Wigan argment has been sorted. Change the title back to The Verve. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nathancroucher (talk • contribs) 19:59, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Move

I have to say I strongly disagree with the move to this new title. 'Richard Ashcroft and The Verve' makes no sense as the band was known as The Verve, and never as 'Richard Ashcroft and The Verve', and we already have a separate article for Richard Ashcroft. It needs to be moved back.--Michig (talk) 06:18, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree, this is absurd. And apart from Salisbury, NONE of The Verve's other members played on Ashcroft's solo albums. (by the way, the comment I just deleted was my own - I had just forgotten to log in when I wrote it) Kohran (talk) 23:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Where The Geese Go.....

Was the song released as a single?

Or do I have just another album track released as a single cd? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.106.229 (talk) 01:01, 3 December 2010 (UTC)


Bitter Sweet Symphony

"...was the soundtrack for many in the summer of 1997 and is considered one of the finest songs ever written." Source? Who considers it to be "one of the finest songs ever written," aside from the author? Sure, it's catchy, but this is obviously POV. --Myles Long 16:22, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The cacophony formerly beneath this valid question is a disgrace to Wikipedia and ought not to ever have existed. Grow up. 142.177.105.66 17:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Mind your own buisness.--Crestville 17:40, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

8=====D that is a dick

-My impression of the "Bitter Sweet" track (after listening to the ALO original) is that the loop is neither sampled or reversed- it's re-recorded, with a new string section... but otherwise it's totally straightforward. I'll have to find a sample of the ALO "Last Time" for reference.

It's well documented, to the point of being recorded in a court of law, that Verve used 'too much' of the original 'The Last Time' by OLOA. Whether it's something 'we', as individuals agree with is debatable. Personally i don't agree. Whilst the strings, bassline and backbeat are the same, the lyrics and 'soul' of the song are very different. It suggests the precedent that anyone who samples a song has to offer complete songwriting credits and royalties...... Even if, in essence, the new song is completely different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.106.229 (talk) 01:06, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Britpop

Were not this group, along with Blur, Oasis and Pulp, classified as a Britpop group? In view of a discussion above, for this reason, it would make sense to call them British rather than English. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 23:37, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

  • I have no experience with British vs. English naming questions, but the fact that they happen to be part of a genre which contains part of the word 'British' really has no bearing on it. Since I believe all of the members were English, it makes sense to call them English, barring some better argument in favor of the more general British. --Michael WhiteT·C 21:08, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

Talk:Rather Be (Clean Bandit song) vs Rather Be (The Verve song) In ictu oculi (talk) 22:11, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

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Still a band

According to this edit summary [1] by @Unframboise: "It didn't STOP being a band when they split." In that case when does a band cease to be a band? Is some other definition being used that I am not aware of?--SabreBD (talk) 16:00, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

It has ceased to be active, but it is still a thing, present tense. The band *is* still a band per WP:TENSE (TW). Please consult the manual of style. --Unframboise (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
I understand how tenses work, I just do not understand why you think bands that have split up are in the present tense. Again, what contsistutes a band not existing in your view?--SabreBD (talk) 19:35, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
This isn't about my view, this is about the Wikipedia manual of style, which states "by default, write all articles in the present tense, including for those covering products or works that have been discontinued. Articles discussing works of fiction are also written in the present tense." The Verve is a work or product that has been discontinued, but it still exists, therefore it should be written in present tense.
The only way a band wouldn't exist is if it was never established. Once a band becomes a band, it remains a band, in wikipedia terms, permanently. --Unframboise (talk) 20:42, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
It is an interesting philosophical view. Presumably, in this view, even when the members are all dead the band still goes on and on as a ghostly existential presence. You have misunderstood the guideline at MOS:TENSE. It is clearly not meant to apply to "deceased subjects, past events, and subjects that no longer meaningfully exist as such", as evidenced by the example given below the guidance that states, "The Beatles were an English rock band that formed in Liverpool in 1960". Also, please note that no one else is interpreting the guideline in this way.--SabreBD (talk) 21:07, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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1989 or 1990?

Sources differ regarding the year that Verve formed. Some say 1989, others say 1990. Which is it?

To avoid Wikipedia's creeping influence on the literature, we should focus on sources published before Wikipedia was influential, perhaps from 2005 and earlier. Later sources should be viewed with some measure of skepticism. Below is a list of sources showing the two possible years of origin. Binksternet (talk) 23:09, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

1989

1990

Discussion

To me it looks like this is a case of telling the reader both years, with attribution. Binksternet (talk) 23:09, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

The Verve are a psychedelic rock band

Ironically not listed at all here Adored89 (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

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