Talk:The Syncopated Clock

As television theme

I'm snipping

...and is the longtime theme of The Early Show and (far more so) The Late Show, a pair of regular movie features on CBS television for many years.

because no source citations are given and I don't think the information is presented is quite correct.

It may be, but I'd like to see a reference.

• The Late Show links to an Australian sitcom, and The Late Show (disambiguation) links to half a dozen articles, none of which refers to the movie feature.
• Although I certainly remember "The Late Show," I am much less certain that it was a CBS network show. I think it may have been a WCBS program, i.e. one seen only on CBS's New York City affiliate. That would make it familiar to people living in the New York Area, but not elsewhere.
• What years was "The Late Show" presented? The sentence suggests that it's no longer on the air. If so, the use of the piece as a theme song for a defunct television show doesn't seem to rate mention in the opening section. Even less so if it was the theme song for a defunct television show on one station in one city... even if that city happens to be New York.

Its use as a television theme should go back in the article, but not until we've got the facts straight and are clear on whether this opening-sentence material or just a nostalgic side-note of interest only to people who grew up in the New York area.

As long as we're on the topic... remember the "Gone With the Wind" theme for "Million Dollar Movie?" Dpbsmith (talk) 13:51, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

P. S. So, if "The Late Show" is dead, does that make it "The late The Late Show," not to be confused with "The Late Late Show?" Dpbsmith (talk) 13:58, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I.I.N.M., The Late Show was a movie umbrella used by all of CBS's owned-and-operated stations, WCBS-TV included; I once saw an album by Columbia Special Products of Music from "The Late Show" - only the movie umbrella mentioned actually pertained to Chicago's WBBM-TV, not WCBS, and they had a shot of the Chicago skyline on the cover. Would anyone know what theme WBBM's Late Show used? –Wbwn 22:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The syndicated American late night TV show that ran movies and used this as its theme song was called The Late Late Late Show. The only info I found that related in any way to it is Moviesunlimited.com's catalog. Jaguara 23:24, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Argh. How many lates were there? stand corrected or else my memory is real lousy. hooray for insomnia! 23:27, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually have Percy Faith's version on a 10" Columbia album from 1955, and his recording was indeed used on WCBS-TV's The Late Show for many years until about 1971 or 1972; a small piece of the opening (or closing) sequence with Faith's rendition, as variated in the mid-to-late 1960's ("in color," as seen at a justified right angle below the show title on the top left corner of the screen) was seen in a 1991 special celebrating the 50th anniversary of WCBS-TV's commercially broadcasting. After 1971-72, the station inaugurated a synthesized version whose arrangement was along the lines of Hot Butter's 1972 hit "Popcorn" (with an animated sequence of stars flocking to, and ultimately cluttering up, a TV screen), and only used by them for about a year; that was then followed by a Lite-Brite - style opening sequence used on all of the station's movie umbrellas (also including The Early Show, The Late Late Show and Picture for a Sunday Afternoon) through the 1980's. Other CBS stations' Late Shows apparently used other songs entirely; one clip occasionally seen on the Web, from the 1960's, with a theme song with lyrics, used the same channel 2 logo variation (with the CBS logo to the left of the "2" as set in Grotesque No. 9) as used then by WCBS-TV in the opening sequence, but that opening may have actually originated from its Los Angeles sister station KNXT (now KCBS-TV). Might this be of help in clarifying the saga of "The Syncopated Clock" on The Late Show? –Wbwn 22:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

P.S. As far as The Early Show is concerned, KNXT's theme music was the theme from the 1969-1975 Australian detective drama Division 4. Some web sources claimed WCBS-TV also used the opening sequence which used that music. –Wbwn 00:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Compress it into a longish sentence, make it clear that it was only a (wildly popular) New York local TV show, and put it back. Perhaps someone will scream OR and take it out, but I think it's sound and perhaps nobody will quibble about the OR aspects. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if this'll work, but the CBS part was modified to read that "The Syncopated Clock" was used on some of its O&O's, and specified WCBS-TV. Only the "25 years" part is in dispute; I distinctly remember c.1971-72 as when it was last used - that was 20-21 years after Percy Faith recorded his version. –Wbwn 02:34, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

A nod to or influenced by Work's work?

Anyone else besides me notice similiarities to Work's My Grandfather's Clock, if it was maybe inspired by that piece? As for Woodsy Owl, I remember the campaigns and I don't hear "The Syncopated Clock" anywhere in "Woodsy Owl will lead the way/So come on let's do our share/Give a hoot, don't pollute". Jaguara `Jaguara 07:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Re My Grandfather's Clock: Yes, I do see what you mean. Work's song is now customarily performed with a woodblock "tick-tock" effect. Do you know if it always was? If so, I agree that it's conceivable that Anderson might have expected people to perceive his piece as a joking reference to Work's. Dpbsmith (talk) 22:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

The UCSD Cylinder Preservation Project has a 1905 recording and a a 1915 recording, both superbly restored and well worth a listening. Yes, it's clear that old recordings of "My Grandfather's Clock" and "The Syncopated Clock" both:

• establish a mechanically repetitive "oom-pah" bass, and
• incorporate a wood-block "tick-tock,"
• use the device of an unexpectedly interrupted rhythm

I'm not musically sophisticated, but it seems to me the three chords on "was a man" are the same as the three chords on "stopped-- short-- nev--"

And I think it's fair to say that there are similarities in the concept and "feeling" of the songs. (Of course in "My Grandfather's Clock" I get the feeling of the shock, like a heart stopping, whereas Anderson's feels humorous or quirky... like a harmless arrhythmia.)

So, yeah, I think the similarity is real. We're certainly not talking about plagiarism or even cryptomnesia or anything like that. But the idea that "The Syncopated Clock" was "inspired by" or (my guess) is an intentional reference to "My Grandfather's Clock" seems quite plausible to me.

Of course, it would be original research to put anything like that in the article, unless we can find a published comment about it. Dpbsmith (talk) 13:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea if Work's work was always performed with "tick tock" background. It can be read as a highly sentimental song so there's a chance that it wasn't. The 1915 recording's vocalist's style made all the ticktocking sound like it didn't belong. I always think of it tick-tocking since I had one of those Fisher-Price Teaching Clocks when I was little. My dad would sing along with it sometimes and the lyrics gave me the willies because I wondered if the music box toy was linked to my lifespan same as the man/clock synchronization. (lol nope, I'm still here. Too bad I no longer have that clock. A '60s one is worth serious money on eBay).

Yep, that old OR bugaboo again. If we could find something where Mr. Anderson himself (or someone who knew him) said that he was inspired by "My Grandfather's Clock" it'd squash any potential cries of violation of WP:OR. And I agree, definitely not plagiarism, cryptomnesia or even deja vu. There's tons of music that was derived from other pieces, like jazz or rock versions of earlier songs. Or how about countless books, screenplays, comic books and songs whose plot was a nod to Romeo and Juliet?

Stopping for now. I was generating discussion and possible "does anyone know"? but wasn't real clear or direct. The two songs sound pretty neat if played in unison but it kills the "stopped! (two) short! (two)" cardiac arrest effect. Jaguara 22:55, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Redirect

The redirect from "musical clock" should be removed, as it alresdy has a redirect to musical boxes which is the appropriate one Chrismorey (talk) 00:47, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

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