Talk:Te Toka-Tapu-a-Kupe / Ninepin Rock

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Requested move 4 March 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED. Aside from a lack of consensus, the arguments for moving do not convincingly obviate WP:NZNC. Hadal (talk) 20:29, 20 March 2023 (UTC) No consensus. --Hadal (talk) 22:19, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Te Toka-Tapu-a-Kupe / Ninepin Rock → Ninepin Rock – Per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONCISE, and MOS:SLASH. Google ngrams shows use of Ninepin Rock, but not of the current title. A Google News search shows 8 results for Ninepin Rock, but only three for Te Toka-Tapu-a-Kupe / Ninepin Rock.

The proposed title is also shorter, and better complies with MOS:SLASH which recommends against using slashes because it suggests that the words are related without specifying how. BilledMammal (talk) 07:39, 4 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 12:52, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Ninepin Rock but also support Te Toka-Tapu-a-Kupe if other editors prefer the Māori/Polynesian name --- Tbf69 P • T 11:14, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support, considering the use of the name in the news articles. Safes007 (talk) 14:02, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nominator. --Spekkios (talk) 04:55, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose of course your searches are picking up more for ninepin rock when there are three other places in New Zealand called Ninepin or Nine Pin Rock!

In the Bay of Islands, commonly used as a mark in sailing races accounting for several of the Google News results e.g. [1]
In Marlborough [2]
Near Kaikoura [3]

The current name Te Toka-Tapu-a-Kupe / Ninepin Rock distingishes it from any other similarly named places. It is used often in more recent articles and it is used in all modern maps. The proposal is less precise and less recognisable. Finally MOS:SLASH does not apply as WP:NZNC requires the used of a spaced slash when it comes to dual names. ShakyIsles (talk) 03:46, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per ShakyIsles. Clearly the proposed title isn't precise enough if even the nominator is getting confused. The search also appears to have missed several articles where the dual name is used, making it far less of a clear cut case than the nomination makes it out to be. As such, and given that the MOS:SLASH argument has been disproven so many times it doesn't even merit attention, the only real option is to maintain the article at its current title. Turnagra (talk) 04:36, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When has the slash argument been disproven? --Spekkios (talk) 09:04, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In basically every move request since it's been brought up, at MRC, in RfCs, and so on. Turnagra (talk) 09:13, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't seen it refuted anywhere. Could you provide some links to these, please? --Spekkios (talk) 09:15, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This is definitely the best name for the article. Looking at sources post-November 2015 (i.e. after the name change became official) I could locate in Google Scholar, news and reports:

TTTaK/NR (or a variation of this such as in parenthesis): [4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12](this one uses both dual and solo)

NR: [13][14][15] [16][17]

TTTaK/NR is more commonly used, and more useful (none of the other NZ Ninepin Rocks share the dual name). --Prosperosity (talk) 01:29, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per the evidence presented by ShakyIsles and Prosperosity. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:14, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in terms of the MOS:SLASH argument, the issue is essentially as follows. There are two possible scenarios for an RM like this: (1) the dual name is preferable for other reasons (such as WP:COMMONNAME or WP:PRECISE), in which case the slash should be used, since it's part of the correct styling of the dual name; or (2) the single name is preferable for other reasons (such as WP:COMMONNAME or WP:CONCISE), in which case the question of the slash is an entirely moot point. Consequently, MOS:SLASH has no bearing on whether this article should be moved or not. (And that's before even getting into the fact that, reading the actual text of MOS:SLASH, it becomes apparent that the guidance pertains to uses of the slash in body text rather than in the name of a work or entity.) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:41, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Prosperity has shown that this is the common name. Furius (talk) 01:36, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. These sorts of names are never the common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:42, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's just not true though. Several dual names are unambiguously common, such as Whakaari / White Island, Aoraki / Mount Cook, Matiu / Somes Island and, it seems, this one. Turnagra (talk) 18:06, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.