Talk:Tailrace fishing

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Hi, just wanted to communicate and let any editors know that I am learning and studying processes to be in line with proper procedures. thanks Looking better any assistance appreciated. thanks.

I have a questions for the editors if Wikipedia. First let me say that access is integral to a tailrace fisherman. By nature these dams, weirs are owned by utilities, municipalities, governments and private. So access is almost always an real issue. my questions are. 1. can i have two tabs explaining the access / non=access issues 2. can i tag the actual dams per wiki pages in this Article 3. can i make lists of accessible and non accessible dams in the United States.

You might approach Mike Cline, who is interested in aspects of freshwater angling in the United States. --Epipelagic (talk) 22:52, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Article issues

Watch the capitalization. Only proper names should be capitalized. WP:MOSCAPS. Since there are no inline citations, I suspect alot of the terms, such as "hydro tailwater fisherman" are just made up and not supportable with any body of sources, The first thing that should occur is that each paragraph at a minimum should have an inline citation(s) and the source(s) should reflect the contents of the paragraph. In other words don't make stuff up. Avoid any "how to" stuff as well.

Overall, this article would be much better off entitled Tailwater fisheries to cover the wide variety of unique angling opportunities that occurs immediately below and downstream from dams. Actually there is nothing unique about fishing in a tailwater from a skill standpoint, but tailwater fisheries are distinctly different from natural river fisheries. I will gladly rename if there is no objection. --Mike Cline (talk) 10:14, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Will be attempting to locate sources for Tailrace Fishing. After months of thought I believe and will research for sources that Tailrace Fishing is at a minumum distinctly different from the term Tailwater Fisheries. Fly fisherman tend to fish Tailwaters as a rule. Tailrace fishing is actually standing on the Structure of the Dams and fishing the immediate structures of the Tailrace itself. Man made to discharge point of structure and also river bed typically is reformed by man (this portion as Tailrace can be sourced no doubt as I have at least seen blueprints of Dams). As far as Skill, Different gates, hydros water volume, season , geographic , experience knowledge are but a few of the neccesrary components to be succesful. If there is no Skill in a seasoned Tailrace fisherman then their is No skill at all in any Fisherman. I always enjoy any conversation ----

I continue with my position outlined above and below. Most sources that used "Tailrace fishing" describe it as fishing in the "tailwaters" below dams and not physically fishing in the "tailrace structures". The article would much better serve readers as "Tailwater fisheries". And I would strong assert that fishing "in" a tailrace or "below" a tailrace requires no "unique" techniques than are used in any swift moving waters. --Mike Cline (talk) 15:57, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Tailrace fishing

Benjamin. Please sign your posts with --~~~~. Its important that you do so. Re: "If I have fished below dams." Extensively since the 1970s-below most of the Alabama dams on the Tennessee, Coosa, Warrior, Tallapoosa and Alabama rivers and on the Missouri and Madison rivers in Montana. One of the most important and often difficult ideas for new editors to grasp, is the encyclopedic nature of WP content. Our job as editors is to contribute content within the scope of the topic that has already been published in reliable primary and secondary sources. Our own experiences may inform us as to where to find the best sources and guide us in organizing content in articles, but our experience or knowledge on any topic does not constitute a reliable source (WP:RS) Additionally, an article on tailwater fisheries or even of it stays at tailrace fishing needs to reflect at a minimum a North American perspective if not a global one. The article can't focus on any one particular state, region or river. Don't hesitate to ask me questions, I'm always happy to help.--Mike Cline (talk) 18:19, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Mike, hope this is the right place to communicate with you. Thank you for taking an interest in Tailrace Fishing. I believe already you may be right in the general term Tailwater Fishing. And can see that , But there is a skill in Tailrace fishing, Different gates operate at different times and intervals below dams which place the Gamefish in differnt locations as opposed to a constant tailrace where bait is trapped. Hydro tailrace fishing has constants but the constants change as opposed to a stream of steady flow. I am not the kind of person that is going to start just undoing things because I disagree. I will start to work on your suggestions. I will say documentation will be similar to my references. Can you tell me if you yourself have fished below Hydrogeneraton dams? Curious. Was popular in U.S. before 9/11. Now limited. But hey I am alive. I really appreciate your interests and edits. Look forward as i understand the wikipedia process. Frank Cruz IV user Benjamin Cross.. my email is benjamincross@austin.rr.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjamin Cross (talk • contribs) 17:20, 21 March 2015 (UTC) Benjamin Cross (talk) 18:34, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much I will study proper processes and attempt to be in order Benjamin Cross (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Mike, I have read the tailwater article on Wikipedia, appears to also include surface run-off, irrigation, flood irrigation. Appears to me that tailrace may be the proper term regarding the act of angling or fishing below dams. I am working on citations as you suggested. How do you believe the best route to get North American Input/Global Input? Do you have photos of actual Anglers fishing the tailrace from the banks in your time? Thanks Again. Benjamin Cross (talk) 23:56, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Above comments moved from user talk page to article talk page for continuity --Mike Cline (talk) 13:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Mike, I appreciate your work here. For someone that enjoys the history of fishing I believe the article Tailwater Fisheries is a great avenue to use your years of actual experiences and experiences as an editor. Please assist tailrace fisherman in finding a place in the new titled article as well as the defined 100 miles to all anglers. It puzzles me that no one has ever created the Article Tailwater Fisheries given the common knowledge of so many fisherman to this activity. Glad to be a part. BenjaminCross. Thanks again Benjamin Cross (talk) 00:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Article title

This article should properly be titled: Tailwater fisheries not Tailrace fishing. The waters flowing from a dam are properly called "tailwaters". The "tailrace(s)" are the physical infrastructures that channel water flowing from dams. The nature of the tailwaters is indeed influenced by the tailrace(s) but also by the point and variability of discharge from the dam. Tailwaters can create habitats and fisheries that are distinctly different from the original river. Fishing occurs in the tailwaters which can extend up to 100 miles from the dam. In the U.S. tailwater fisheries exist for Salmonidae, Moronidae, Percidae, Esocidae and Centrarchidae (probably other families as well). Although fishing within the immediate vicinity of a tailrace has its issues (primarily angler safety and access), the fishing techniques do not differ from general fishing techniques. I believe the current title is far too restrictive, has limited support of sources and will tend to focus on limited geographies where fishing in a tailrace is popular while ignoring the widespread availability and variety of tailwater fisheries in North American.

Additionally, based on WP:COMMONNAME ngrams overwhelmingly support tailwater fishery [1], [2] and [3] -Mike Cline (talk) 13:35, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Potential sources

• Ed Engle (1991). Fly fishing the tailwaters. Stackpole Books. ISBN 811723437. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help)
• Pat Dorsey (2009). Fly fishing tailwaters: tactics and patterns for year-round waters. Stackpole Books. ISBN ISBN9780811705127. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: invalid character (help)
• Joel William Helmer (2005). Float trips, dams, and Tailwater Trout : an environmental history of the White River of Northern Arkansas, 1870-2004.
• Jimmy Jacobs (2003). Tailwater trout in the South : a guide to finding and fishing the region's man-made trout fisheries. Backcountry Guides. ISBN 881505390. {{cite book}}: Check |isbn= value: length (help)
• Influence of reservoir discharge location on water quality : biology and sport fisheries of reservoirs and tailwaters, 1968-1971
• Robert G. Martin Richard H Stroud; Waterways Experiment Station (U.S.); Sport Fishing Institute.; United States. Army. Corps of Engineers. 1973
• Preferences, Specialization, and Management Attitudes of Trout Anglers Fishing in Tennessee Tailwaters Clifford P. Hutt , Phillip W. Bettoli North American Journal of Fisheries Management Vol. 27, Iss. 4, 2007
• Factors Influencing Brown Trout Reproductive Success in Ozark Tailwater Rivers Danielle R. Pender , Thomas J. Kwak Transactions of the American Fisheries Society Vol. 131, Iss. 4, 2002
• Water Temperature Affects Smallmouth Bass and Channel Catfish in a Tailwater Stream on the Great Plains Tim M. Patton , Wayne A. Hubert North American Journal of Fisheries Management Vol. 16, Iss. 1, 1996
• Environmental Factors Influencing Summer Angler Effort on the Jordan Dam Tailwater, Alabama Donald C. Jackson , William D. Davies North American Journal of Fisheries Management Vol. 8, Iss. 3, 1988
• Healy, Joe. "Day at the races: are double-digit trout on your wish list? Then get thee to a tailrace."Outdoor Life Mar. 2013: 59.Academic OneFile. Web. 23 Mar. 2015.