Talk:Superboy-Prime/Archive 1

Main image?

Does anyone think the picture from the end of IC #5 is better than the Lee cover for the main SHB image?--DrBat 18:38, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

i don't really mind which one, as long as their both somewhere in the article. they're both pretty sweet.--Exvicious 19:09, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I think the cover of "Tales Of Sinestro Corps: Superman-Prime" #1 should be used as the main image.

Firestorm566 (talk) 15:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Question about Superboy-Prime, Infinite Crisis and the Phantom Zone (5/23/2006).

I recently picked up all 7 issues of Infinite Crisis. I read on this Wikipedia article that Speedy trapped Superboy-Prime in the Phantom Zone using an arrow. Where might that be, cause I don't see it anywhere in these 7 issues (unless I passed it over completely)?

• That'd be over in Teen Titans Annual, actually. The brawl with Superboy-Prime is extended over there, just as Nightwing and Superboy's heading to the tower is explained in Teen Titans.--DoctorWorm7 10:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually it was in Teen Titans #32, p14 (not including ad pages). CovenantD 18:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Original poster: Ah, thanks guys.

Is he super-intelligent?

He's naieve, but the only evidence (and it's compelling) of above average smarts is the power suit. And how long did it take him to build that I wonder? -- Ipstenu 18:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

he seems dumb as hell to me. i just thought he's an idiot savant. personally, i think he just claims to have made it -Exvicious 18:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Being a naive teenager and being stupid aren't the same thing. King Zeal 21:07, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I'm just saying this is the impression he makes (to me), and apparently Pantha (RIP). But it probably also has a lot to do with his crazy. Exvicious 04:00, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Superboy-Prime should have super-intelligence, as did the original versions of Superman. However, his growing insanity and lack of experience of the real world outside of his paradise reality made him seem to be something of a total nutter. - Sh@z@m

Alliance Color

Dunno about you guys, but this s-prime kid seems pretty evil to me. - Neodammerung 03:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. grey means neutral, no? after #4, i would say he's neutral (showed remorse), but in #6 it looks like the kid is taking crazy pills. Exvicious 04:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Also, remember what Dan Didio said: "This is the moment where Superboy-Prime crosses the point of no return and becomes the greatest threat the universe will ever know" about his battle with the titans, when he kills pantha and the others. And Alex in IC #6: "Somehow you have changed at your very core, superboy". Now he is willing to do everything to bring back earth-prime. - Neodammerung 21:02, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

He's young and severely mentally ill. His entire world was destroyed, and he was manipulated by Alex. If Deathstroke, a cold-blooded assasin who manipulates his daughter and tries killing his son, is neutral, then he is too. --DrBat 17:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Why is Deathstroke neutral? He's a member of the Secret Society of Super-Villians Exvicious 22:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I know, and he's not now anyway. My point was, I found it hypocritical that he was neutral, while Prime was a villain. --DrBat 00:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The Joker is mentally ill. Moreso than Superbaby. It does not change the fact that he is a villain. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 22:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The Joker is purely psychotic. Superboy was severely traumatized by the loss of his world, and he was manipulated by Luthor. Just check out the section Geoff Johns and Dan Didio on Superboy-Prime.--DrBat 01:40, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Dan says he's the greatest threat, ever. Sounds evil. CovenantD 01:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

...And? The Joker was traumaized by the death of his wife and unborn child and his terrible life. It doesn't change the fact that the stories have him doing evil acts in opposition to the heroes. That is the definition of a villain; their mental profile plays no part in this. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 03:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

"Superboy is a teenager raised in isolation, with raging hormones, a huge chip on his shoulder and the powers of a god. He never learned how to keep his powers or emotions in check, so when confronted, the situation escalated and he had no idea on how to defuse it. Think of a situation where you, as a teenager, lost your temper. Now imagine you have the power to crush a planet. Do you think that situation would have ended differently?" And I don't think it's original research to say he did what he did in the first battle with the Teen Titans because he didn't know the full extent of his powers, or that what he did left him traumatized. When he knocked off Pantha's head, he started crying and saying he didn't mean to, ect. Then he was freaking out, screaming that they were ruining him. He was obviously unstable.

Even if we're going to argue about whether he should have the villain tag, I don't think there's any question as to whether or not he's mentally ill. He's obviously mentally ill, and should have the Fictional characters with mental illness category.

And as for the Joker; the difference is that despite all he's done, he was trying to bring back his world and his family. The Joker is just utterly crazy, and he's never shown remorse whatsoever. He enjoys killing for the sake of killing. --DrBat 20:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

You are talking about SP before returning from the speed force. He doesn't show remorse anymore - Neodammerung 21:56, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, yes, but that's because they had the discussion before he came back. We should take this to the new discussion below. --Chris Griswold 00:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Pix for Superboy vs Superboy Rounds 1 & 2?

Come on guys. no one has any pics of both fights? you're really dropping the ball here. (yes i'm aware i haven't posted any pics either, but help a brother out.) Exvicious 04:05, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Can't help you there, but I can give you pictures of Superboy fighting Earth-One Superboy. --Chris Griswold 15:12, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Resistance to magic

In Infinite Crisis #7, he resisted the sword attack of Zauriel. Is his sword considered magical? If so, this would be instance #2 of invulnerability to magic (#1 was shrugging off Black Adam's lightning encapsulated fists)

Yeah, but remember that he was wearing his power-suit back then, so it shouldn't be listed in Notable powers (SHB). - Neodammerung 21:52, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't go that far as to say that those two instances denote absolute invulnerability to magic. It'd be best to say a high resilience, at least.

Category:Superman or Superman supporting characters?

I think this article does not belong in the supporting characters category for the following reasons. 1) His only notable appearance as a "supporting character" was in DC Comics Presents 20 years ago. 2) After Infinite Crisis, he is best known as a major character in his own right, not in a supporting role. 3) He is an alternate version of the character of Kal-El, and should be listed as prominently as Kal-L. CovenantD 16:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

His first appearance had him as a supporting character. That should weight pretty heavily. Regardless, I don't consider the Superman category to be for characters, rather for concepts relating to the Superman mythos and associated topics that don't fit in a subcategory. Superboy being in the category is just fine. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 19:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Hawkman's reality Prime-punched?

The article includes "Hawkman's many reincarnations" as one of the results of Superboy-Prime's punches. I don't recall this being listed anywhere. Is that bit for real? --Joe Sewell 20:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, Hawkman was seen in the shards. Knowing his horrifically convoluted history, it's entirely possible that they're going to somehow streamline his history. As Gentleman Ghost, a Hawkman adversary, is also affected by the changes, it stands to reason that Hawkman will also get tweaked.--DoctorWorm7 04:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Hawkman's origins were reality-punched by the Earth-2 Superman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.244.125.78 (talk) 02:22, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"too many pics, rm some"

There are not too many pics. Please stop removing them. --DrBat 16:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there are too many pics. I've removed the ones that add nothing substantial to the article (two covers from the same series). CovenantD 16:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Then can we have the Jimenez art for the main image, as opposed to Lee's? --DrBat 21:32, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm fine with that - I like the Jimenez pose better anyway CovenantD 21:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Blog links

I'm with Apostrophe. The blog links really don't add anything. Leave 'em out, or you may run into WP:3RR trouble. --Joe Sewell 16:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

indeed. those links didn't even work when i tried it. --Exvicious 04:25, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Cropped image of Prime

I think the problem with the cropped version is that Prime's black hair blends into the background, so it's difficult to know where to crop it. As a result, pieces of his hair looked a little sharp/bumpy, imo. Also, the image itself cropped off pieces of his body, so it looks weird without the background. --DrBat 21:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Here comes another image revert war. --Chris Griswold 14:41, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as how Lesfer has been polite to me in the past, and how I don't want to cause another revert war, I'm not going to revert it. I did ask Lesfer to discuss it with me on the talk page, though. --DrBat 21:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

No need to worry, Griswold, we ain't gonna have an edit war in here.
Hey, DrBat. I just think the pic is fine this way, cropped. That text in the original background is pretty ugly. If this cropped pic is really bothering you, feel free to change it back. Cheers! —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 22:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible that the image could me modified to make the background black, instead of white? --DrBat 00:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Craving flesh

craving on his flesh a blooded symbol of super power is priceless —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.228.71.19 (talk • contribs) 11:58, June 15, 2006

Too true, friend. Too true. --Chris Griswold 16:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

How would he do that if he no longer has super powers?

Are zombies considered to have superpowers? I guess they have regeneration.--Chris Griswold

Won't the carving disappear with his next exposure to yellow sunlight?Jbk 19:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

→What zombies have regeneration? The whole point is they don't, but just decay -Jbk (talk) 19:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Detective Comics #820

In Detective Comics #820, as Batman and Robin are fighting The Scarecrow, Robin says to the Superboy-Prime illusion "You're dead, I'm not."; any idea if this was simply an oversight on the editor's part, or if Superboy-Prime died at some point between IC #7 and the OYL event? Dlong 03:10, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

He didn't die, and DC Editorial has said that he will continue to exist. With as deliberate as Robinson and the Batman titles are being at clearly mentioning parts of continuity that remain, I highly doubt it is accidental. It appears that some characters do not know that S-P is still alive. --Chris Griswold 07:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm with chris. if that is an oversight, the writer is the dumbest man alive, and he has the worse editor ever. within the story, there's two explanations i can think of

• Batman told Robin Superboy-Prime was dead. (Although Batman wouldn't really know either because he wasn't there.)
• Robin naturally assumed they wouldn't let a super-powerful homicidal maniac live.

(personally, i think if he was powerless on Mogo, Gardner would've executed his sorry ass.)

Is Superboy-Prime a psychopath?

This is the Hare psychopath checklist. Each item is graded on a 3 point scale. 0 is absent, 1 is partially present, 3 is present.

1. Glibness/superficial charm - 1
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth - 2: wants to be Superman; "you know what i can do in that yellow sun"
3. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - 2: carving Superman symbol into chest
4. Pathological lying - 1
5. Conning/manipulative - 1: "We're going to make Earth-Prime the perfect Earth!"
6. Lack of remorse or guilt - 2
7. Shallow affect - 1
8. Callous/lack of empathy - 2
9. Parasitic lifestyle - 1
10. Poor behavioral controls - 2
11. Promiscuous sexual behavior - 0
12. Early behavioral problems - 1
13. Lack of realistic, long-term goals - 2: He tried to destroy the universe by flying through Oa by taking on every hero in the DC universe.
14. Impulsivity - 2: the destroy the universe thing was kind of impulsive.
15. Irresponsibility - 2
16. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - 2: "Stop making me! You're making me like you!"
17. Many short-term marital relationships - 0
18. Juvenile delinquency - 2
19. Revocation of conditional release - 1
20. Criminal versatility - 1

He's close with 28. According to the article 30-40 strongly supports psychotic behavior. The average population is 5. Of course, these ratings are my opinion, anyone else have one? -- Exvicious 18:33, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've been using the Hervey M. Cleckley list found in the psychopathy article and ruling him out on the intelligence issue. I'd disagree with some of your rankings above (1, 9, 12, 18), but not enough to really matter. Still wouldn't bring him anywhere near the average. I'm still not convinced that he meets the criteria though. CovenantD 18:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I might take 1 to 0. 9 is kind of by default, since he's never had to live on his own, and the multiverse plan was Alex's at first and he just followed along. For early behavior problems, i'm citing his obsession with the past with him watching his birthday over and over again. Early is a relative term. And I'm not sure what i was thinking with 19. While he *is* mentally ill, he doesn't fit all criteria for a psychopath. -- Exvicious 19:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hero/Villain/Neutral

The SHB was changed today to say that Superboy-Prime is neutral rather than a villain. As far as I understand, the character is a villain. Maybe I don't understand the point of the color bar there. --Chris Griswold 00:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

We had this conversation 4 months ago. Exvicious 10:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

So why is it being changed four months later? --Chris Griswold 10:31, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

As Neodammerung has pointed out, that conversation is dated and does not take into account what the character is like once he returns from Speed Town. --Chris Griswold 01:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Read the conversation again. I specifically mentioned #4 and #6, not to mention the conversations after the release of #5 (his return). Exvicious 04:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh. Nevertheless, he's definitely a villain; the creators themselves have even gone on record as saying that he is. I'm not sure why someone might call him neutral when his favorite hobby is fucking people up.--Chris Griswold 04:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

i agree. i think the geoff johns description is pretty accurate. instead of fessing up when he initially killed pantha, he kept fighting instead of just flying away. instead of taking responsibility, he blamed everyone else and lost his chance at redemption. and, of course, when he came back he attempted to kill the universe without a second thought.

also at the san diego comic con, dan didio said something along the lines of "we created a powerful super villian and it would be a shame not to use him.

it looks like User:DrBat is the one who changed it back to gray. i'll ask him to post his reasoning on the matter. Exvicious 03:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Because he's a child and he doesn't know any better. There's a reason why we don't execute children and just send them to juvie-hall. He was trying to bring back his world and his family (what would you do if you world was replaced with a darker version where you never existed and your girlfriend and parents got killed? would you try to replace it back with your own world?), and Luthor was manipulating him and playing on his emotions. I don't know; I just felt sorry for this guy.

Geoff Johns said "I said to Dan I think Prime does it by accident and is horrified. That panel where’s he’s looking at his hands and goes ‘I didn’t mean to do it,’ that for me is the entire story for Superboy Prime."

Furthermore, usually when heroes become villains, even if as villains they're really evil (ie Maxwell Lord), they still get a neutral status on their SHB box due to their time as a hero. That was my understanding, anyway. --DrBat 03:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you please point me to the discussion where you learned that? Thanks. --Chris Griswold 05:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't stated; I just assumed that was the case, due to characters like Maxwell Lord and other 'heroes turned villains' having a neutral status. --DrBat 19:44, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You're thinking of cases like Freedom Beast, dude. One case of villainy or mindcontrol doesn't erase years of heroics, sure. However, it's not the status quo and we're not talking about the scandalous dabacle that was Maxwell Lord's role in Infinite Crisis. We're talking about someone who makes Darth Vader look like Batman. This was progressive, thorough and as far as we know, permanent. The guy carved a bloody kryptonian hope symbol into his chest whilst drooling like a stereotypical lune. Further, you yourself said the change was motivated by pity. You gotta understand, though, dude. This isn't The Punisher; This isn't Jason Todd. This is a villain and we color them violet. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 22:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

That was almost poetic. --Chris Griswold 01:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, Chris. ACS (Wikipedian); Talk to the Ace. See what I've edited. 02:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Psychopaths?

1. #Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.

Nope.

2. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.

Nope.

3. Unreliability.

Eh. He was reliable to Luthor for a while, and only turned on him at the end.

4. Untruthfulness and insincerity.

Nope.

5. Lack of remorse or shame.

Nope.

6. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.

Debatable.

7. Poor judgement and failure to learn from experience.

Fine.

8. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.

Nope.

9. General poverty in major affective reactions.

Nope.

10. Specific loss of insight.

Nope.

11. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.

Nope.

12. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.

Nope.

13. Suicide threats rarely carried out.

Nope.

14. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.

Nope.

15. Failure to follow any life plan.

Nope.

He only covers a few of these qualities, which can either be chalked up to the traumas he experienced, or being an immature child ("Poor judgement and failure to learn from experience", the only thing that really applies to him). --DrBat 22:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

You do not have to meet all these qualities to be a Psychopath. As others have pointed out, he is far above the Average. He stopped being an immature child and become a psychopath with he killed those 32 Green Lanterns and Kal-L. T-1000 22:55, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

He's an immature child with the powers of a god. 'Killer' and 'psychopath' are not interchangable; you can be one without being the other. --DrBat 00:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

If he killed those 32 Green Lanterns by accident, then he is a immature child. However, he knew what he was capable of, but he killed the Lanterns anyway. He was an immature child in the beginning, but towards the end, he become outright evil. He knew exactly what he was doing when he killed those people. T-1000 01:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, killing people (intentional or not) does not make one a psychopath. It may make them a horrible person, but not every murderer is a psychopath. As Didio said, "Think of a situation where you, as a teenager, lost your temper. Now imagine you have the power to crush a planet. Do you think that situation would have ended differently?"

Again, he meets little to none of the criteria for the 'fictional psychopaths' category. --DrBat 02:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with #1. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 05:00, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it really irrational to want to replace a darker, more corrupt world where your family and girlfriend was killed and you never existed back with your own world? He may be irrational in thinking that destroying OA will restart the Universe, but he is just a kid. --DrBat 12:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Not that #1. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:48, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, I guess replying to all the qualifications screwed up the numbering. :o

What are you referring to? Was that a sarcastic way of saying you disagree and thinks he meets all the qualities listed?--DrBat 00:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

My thoughts: #2: He acts decisively, even when upset; he's never sad about what he's done; #3: As you say, he turned on Luthor, and this is after sneaking around behind Kal-L's back; #4: As soon as he had done something wrong - knock of Pantha's head - he made excuses and lied about it; #5: Again, he does not feel bad about the things he does, including killing Kal-L; #6: "Antisocial" - His whole goal is to destroy a society he does not agree with; #7. You even agree that he refuses to learn from his experience and has poor judgment; #8: He is eager to destroy an entire universe to have one based on his wants - that's pretty much the definition of egocentric; #10: The more actions he takes, the more confused he becomes, and yet he continues on his course of destruction; #14: He has no sex life whatsoever; #15: Failure to follow any life plan - he is content to follow the paths of Kal-El, Kal-L, and Alexander Luthor. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 03:20, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

3:Superboy didn't really turn on Luthor as much as he stopped working with him. 4: How is saying "I didn't mean to" lying about it? He didn't know the full extent of his powers, and he was obviously traumatized by what he had done, going into denial mode. [1] (Did you ever watch the animated Gargoyles series, btw?) 5: I don't know. All of his justifications seem to me like he's trying to justify what he's doing to himself. And Bart Allen's first line of dialogue in IC #7, after Superboy says he doesn't want the new earth, is how he doesn't want it because of all the guilt attached to it. 6: His goal is to replace a darker, corrupt world back with his own world, where his family and friends are still alive. 7:Yes, which is common with a lot of children. 8:He wants his family back. If your entire world was destroyed and replaced with a darker version in which you never existed and your parents and girlfriend were killed, would you want your old one back? #14: He had a girlfriend on his old world. And there was no one else for him to have a relationship with afterwards. 15: Yes, he's a child willing to follow adults. And you could say the same thing about Bart Allen, concerning the previous Flashes. --DrBat 22:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Geoff Johns: Prime is not psychotic

"[Superboy Prime] is not going to be one-note either – he’s not a psychotic, murdering character. He has his episodes, but he’s much more complex than that."

--Geoff Johns

--Exvicious 00:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I think you will find that is, in fact, Geoff Johns from Earth-Two and cannot be quoted in a Wikipedia from this Earth because we don't know if the conditions are the same between Earths. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:37, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for citable information of writers clarifying their story intentions, but c'mon Johns, he carved an S into his chest while drooling maliciously. WesleyDodds 09:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not seeking to support either side of the argument, but I think it should be noted that being psychotic is not the same as being psychopathic.

• "Similarly, it should be distinguished from psychopathy, a personality disorder often associated with violence, lack of empathy and socially manipulative behavior. " (Taken from the entry for psychosis.)King Zeal 13:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The kid doesn't qualify for either. "Psychopathy," an outdated name for antisocial personality disorder, runs much deeper than that. He has too many emotional attachments to people of Earth-Prime to qualify. He lacks empathy for the people of the current universe because he doesn't feel they're exactly real, he feels that they're perversions of the true people and he can save them all by restoring what he considers the real universe.

And as for the S carving thing, do you know how many people with tattoos, cuttings, or various ritual scarrings do not qualify as psychotic? Psychotic means the person is truly out of touch with reality. Does he hallucinate? No. Does he thinks he's a fish? No. Does he mutter incoherently? No. I could go on and on about why he is not psychotic and why he is not a "psychopath." I've taught Abnormal Psychology more than sixty times. Yes, he's a mess. He has a distorted view of reality but not a full-fledged break from reality. Doczilla 05:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I confess, I'm not the expert you claim to be, but aren't all the symptoms you just listed actually attributed to psychosis rather than APD? King Zeal 20:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's actually what I was saying. The first part of what I wrote addressed "psychopathy" and the latter part addressed the issue of psychosis. Doczilla 20:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Immunity to Red Solar Radiation

I don't know if anyone remembers this, but when Superboy-Prime was first introduced, I remember that it was clearly stated that he was immune to Red Solar Radiation. This causes no end of continuity problems for Infinite Crisis, because not only would the final depowering flight through Rao not work on Superboy-Prime, the imprisonment in the Red Sun-Eater wouldn't either.

I can't seem to find where this immunity was first revealed, though. Someone want to confirm this? ~Scion, LSCM webmaster

It's in DC Comics Presents #87 (Superboy-Prime's first appearance). The idea I'm hearing is that while the Red Solar Radiation doesn't directly affect him, he loses his powers because he's not getting any Yellow Solar Radiation, implying that he doesn't have the type of reserves that the Modern Superman talked about having prior to his original fight against Doomsday. (See The Death of Superman TPB). Dlong 18:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. It just seems to me that if that's the case, our Superman would be the one with the Red Solar Radiation immunity. Think about it. If you're immune to something, your body has a reserve to fight it. Red Solar Radiation doesn't strip Kryptonians of their powers (except in the Donner films), it just forces them to use their reserves. So Modern Superman's reserves act like an immunity. If Superboy-Prime doesn't have reserves of Yellow Solar Radiation, that would actually make him more susceptible to the Red.

Is that what DC Comics #87 said about Superboy-Prime? That he gets more affected by Red Solar Radiation? Or is he supposed to be immune? ~Scion, LSCM webmaster —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.1.51.146 (talk) 18:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

The way I understand it, is in the presence of a yellow sun his power levels are that of pre-Crisis Superman. He still had powers but he was significantly weaker in the "paradise dimension" and he had to combine his powers with Alex Luthor to break out.

I don't think he is able to "store" yellow sunlight, otherwise there would be no point in his anti monitor suit. I think the suit just guarantees him yellow sun if he's ever away from the sun, for example when the Flashes trapped him under red sunlight.

After going through the red sun, Superboy-Prime lost his suit, and there was no yellow sun present.

And how does Superman's immunity tie into him losing his powers for a year?--EXV // + @ 19:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

No, that's not quite what I was asking. I'm trying to figure out whether Johns introduced a major plot discrepancy into Infinite Crisis or not. If Superboy-Prime was immune to Red Solar Radiation when he was introduced in DC Comics #87, then flying him through Rao and imprisoning him in a Red Sun-Eater in Infinite Crisis wouldn't work. Superboy-Prime would have no known weaknesses in this universe, if that is the case.

The person above explained it by saying that Superboy-Prime just doesn't have reserves of yellow sunlight like Modern Superman does, which doesn't make any sense to me because if you have reserves, then you're immune. So Modern Superman would be immune, but... and this is the kicker... this is exactly the opposite of the way things were presented in DC Comics #87. In that comic, Modern Superman's susceptible to Red Solar Radiation and Superboy-Prime isn't. So the explanation doesn't work.

My question is this: how is it possible for a Kryptonian to be immune to Red Solar Radiation and yet get depowered when in the presence of a Red Sun? How is it possible to imprison a Kryptonian with an immunity to Red Solar Radiation in a Red Sun-Eater? ~Scion, LSCM webmaster —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.1.50.186 (talk) 02:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

Okay, I'm a little late to the party, but I think I might be able to explain this. Superboy Prime is immune to Red Solar radiation. That being said, he got his powers shortly before the Crisis on Infinite Earths, and thus did not have time to build up reserves, hence the armor. Flying him through the red sun damaged the armor (as it would pretty much any material) thus cutting off his supply of solar energy. Thus his powers were depleted, not by the radiation from the red sun but by its destruction of his power source. That being said, apparently the red radiation negates Superman's abilities to use his powers. I don't know if it instantly dissapates his reserves or what, but it happens. Personally, I agree that it should just force him to use his reserves, but all evidence points to it stopping his powers and possibly cutting off or dispersing his reserves.ArchangelX777 18:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

This discussion is reaching the point of becoming a forum topic instead of talk about the article itself. Doczilla 05:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

To Superboy-Prime, a red sun is the same as no sun at all, except for the fact that it's a huge ball of flame (which is why he lost his powers going through the Red Sun... he used up all of his energy staying alive). He is immune to red sun radiation, in that it doesnt DO anything to him. Having reserves doesnt make you 'immune to red sun radiation' it just means that you're okay for a while outside of YELLOW sun radiation. Superboy Prime could have been pushed through a giant ball of acid for all it mattered. Webrunner 15:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

In addition, Prime was only exposed to ARTIFICIAL red sunlight in his first appearance. NotSuper (talk) 03:15, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone ever think that Prime did build up a minimum of reserves and wasted it on killing Superman 2 and fighting Superman 1 to the point of exhaustion (Thus, even with out the junior red sun, he would still be depowered). There are levels of power he could have, and the fact that he could only carve an initial into his chest is probably what little strength in his reserve he had left. After that fight on Mogo, I wasnt surprised he had nothing left, he had no power source, all the Supermen there either was too exhausted (With superman 2 dieing, probably from the exhaustion, most definitely the beating, and like Prime, he too probably used up most of his reserves by the time he hit Mogo). Superman 1 was somewhat weakened by the kryptonite, he had no yellow sun for a power source, and barely beat Prime (Which I attribute to Superman 2, because Prime probably wasted his energy pounding Superman 2's semi invulnerable face).

I guess to sum up my rant, like the others said, he just didnt have to much reserves in him. My theory is he used it up in that final fight. Its a good theory, no? Im one of those Superman/boy Prime fanboys, so Im always looking for an excuse to say that hes the best=P(24.42.110.17 (talk) 01:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC))

Fair use rationale for Image:Dcp87p.jpg

Image:Dcp87p.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Similarities to Moore's Kid Marvelman/Miracleman

Would it be appropriate to include a small section on the similarities between Superboy-Prime and Kid Marvelman? There are strong similarities that make for interesting comparative reading.—Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexDante (talk • contribs)

No. It would be Original Research and unverified claims. You can't start comparing characters like that. Otherwise, you could compare Prime to every character from Capt. Marvel Jr. to Agent Smith. King Zeal 14:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Ditto to what King Zeal said. Doczilla 16:42, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Imprisoned for a year?

Hasn't he been imprisoned for longer than a year? He was imprisoned for all of 52 (one year), plus however much time it's been since OYL started (do we even know how much time that's been, in-universe, now that I think of it?) Webrunner 15:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Why DOESN'T Supes Prime have a Yellow Ring??

Anybody know why??

Or was there a shot of Supes Prime where he DID have a Yellow Ring and I just missed it?? {{Tfd-inline|Unsigned3}}—The preceding comment is by Thanos777 (talk • contribs) Thanos777: Please sign your posts!

First off sign comments. Second off it has yet to be explained but imo its because he doesnt need one.Wrestlinglover420 03:12, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Very likely he lacks the requisite control of fear that seems to be needed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.194.84 (talk) 05:15, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Superman Prime?

It looks like DC is going to start calling him Superman Prime.

http://i83.imagethrust.com/images/5vhU/view-image/countdown-035-pg-22.html

Led Zeppelin Destroyer 17:28, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe, but don't hold out for his one-Shot issue; There's only four, and the Anti-Monitor seems to have taken his spot. Bluecatcinema 12:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Prime took the Anti-Monitor's spot.

DC COMICS ANNOUNCES NEW TITLE FOR TALES OF THE SINESTRO CORPS PRESENTS: THE ANTI-MONITOR #1

TALES OF THE SINESTRO CORPS PRESENTS: THE ANTI-MONITOR #1 (AUG070223) will arrive in store with the title TALES OF THE SINESTRO CORPS PRESENTS: SUPERMAN PRIME #1. This issue now will run 48 pages and feature a cover price of $3.99 U.S.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=127206

Led Zeppelin Destroyer 17:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Since DC is using the Superman Prime title now, this page is going to have to be renamed. --Basique 23:57, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Sinestro Corps Quotes

First of all, stop accusing people of vandalism. We're supposed to be assuming good faith about other editors. Don't be so standoffish and ready to point fingers.

Now, tell us...how are these overly-detailed accounts of Superboy-Prime's quotes in the Sinestro Corps books "relevant" to this article? King Zeal 19:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Well if you didnt vandalise the page i wouldnt accuse.

Its relevant to the story because its whats going on in them. Your thinking to much about how their quotes and you arent looking at the bigger picture. I'm trying to look out for the article.BIG Daddy M 17:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

How is it relevant to the article, not the story. A couple of random quotes does what for the article? Pairadox 17:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Their not random. They set up his role in the story.BIG Daddy M 21:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

But they don't. They really are out of context because there's no indication of what it is he wants, or why he refers to the Earth as stupid. Without knowing that they are just random quotes. Pairadox 21:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, if you want to change it to were the information is still there but so are the quotes go for it other wise leave it alone.BIG Daddy M 21:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

You do not get to dictate the choices - read WP:OWN. "If you don't want your material to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it." Pairadox 22:19, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Then leave it alone you are trying to hurt the article and that is vandalism. Your the only one trying to control the article. Your deleting sourced relevant material. That isn't tolerated here.BIG Daddy M 22:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Once again, you don't get to dictate the options. I am not trying to hurt the article, so your premise is faulty. You have yet to show relevancy to this article, not the story, even after I've explained how irrelevant and confusing they are in their current form. Pairadox 22:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Stop trying to accuse others of trying to "hurt" the articles. It's not our job to "set up the story"...Wikipedia only exists to provide a brief synopsis of the content. In other words, we don't have to follow every single thing that Superboy-Prime does in every book he appears in. This is not "hurting" the article. It's actually making it easier for people who just want general information, and not irrelevant details. King Zeal 02:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

You're A Man Now, Son

When the "Tales Of The Sinestro Corps Presents: Superman-Prime" is released, should we change the article title?

I say yes, personally. If Joe Reader decided to check the article for the character (assuming that it's his first exposure to the character), he'll likely type in "Superman-Prime". I think we should keep it updated to whatever the current standard is. But, it'll depend on the context of the story, I suppose. King Zeal 15:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Very well. The switch happens, 24th Oct 2007. Be there. SaliereTheFish 19:15, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

DC is not officially calling him anything yet. He was definitely and consistently identified as Superboy-Prime. We know they're avoiding calling him Superboy, but different characters call him different things. Until clear consistency emerges or DC outright says, "He's Superman-Prime now," changing the article's title would be premature. We're not going to rename the article "Prime" just because a LOT of characters have been calling him that, are we? Certainly a lot more than have referred to him as a Superman. If someone refers to Ultraman as the Superman of Earth-3, that doesn't rename him. Doczilla 02:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

You misread the situation, Doc. I was saying that on the date of the release of the first official title naming him 'Superman' - "Tales of the Sinestro Corps Presents: Super-Man-Prime" - we should then change the article name, or even rename the 'Sinestro Corps' subsection 'Sinestro Corps/Becoming Superman' as an alternative. Either way, after 24th Oct 2007 he won't be called Superboy any longer. SaliereTheFish 05:46, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

(Not misread. Just hadn't read everything.) Oh, yeah, absolutely. When they release a title calling him Superman-Prime, I think we must then rename the article. Although, we can't change it until they release that because they have a history of lying about titles and content in promotional material. (I don't think that's remotely likely in this case, but we have procedures to follow.) Doczilla 20:18, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe it to be unlikely as well, mainly because that interview I linked to already shows the finished cover, and Geoff Johns mentions it being important htat he becomes a man...plus, they already lied to us about it. They said it would be about the Anti-Monitor. SaliereTheFish 18:40, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Sinestro Corps

Why arent we updating his current appearences in the war?LifeStroke420 16:14, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

We don't mention a character's every appearance. (Imagine how long the main Superman's article would be if we did that.) He's mostly just been hanging out and contributing nothing. The last I saw, he'd made no meaningful contribution -- other than the trouble the Sinestro Corps went through to get him, and that's not something he himself did personally. Doczilla 16:54, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

But have you read the current issue? (24) He amps it up. Thats what im trying to get in it.LifeStroke420 17:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Amping it up does not mean a significant event in his personal history. Doczilla 18:08, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

While I think you are really wrong on this i dont wish to edit war. It is however his first reappearance after ic and i think its very important.LifeStroke420 22:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

But his appearance has been mentioned. That he was prisoner, that the Sinestro Corps broke him out, and that so far he's siding with them have all been mentioned. We just don't crowd these articles with specific story details. Seriously think how mindbogglingly long the articles would be were we to include story details from hundreds (for some characters, thousands) of different stories -- or even just from the most important stories from those characters' histories. Doczilla 01:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

that current pic is the best for the artcile, some guy keeps changing it. we should keep it please. 24.18.154.94 07:18, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying, man. Apostrophe keeps removing it under a false claim of fair use violation. --CmdrClow 20:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Because it is. There are set rules and it is your fault that you refuse to actually follow them. Never mind the fact that it's a horrible image to use in an article. "NEW COVER! MUST UPLOAD!", which seems to be the shtick of various users, does not mean better. ' 23:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Infobox image

So it gets it's own section...

And looking at it, why the hell is someone trying to shove the most recent, battle damaged, "I'm-a-bad-ass", "Don't-see-the-costume", version down our throats?

Since the cover art for the Superman-Prime one shot does a lousy job of showing the costume/uniform/outfit, it really doesn't fit the criteria laid out for the infoboxes. And to be fair, the "in shadows" Infinite Crisis cover art also fails those criteria.

And on that note... Since none of the outfits have really rise to the standard of iconic identification of the character, the nutshell use of the 'box, maybe there shouldn't be a 'box image at all. Just images per section that support the character's change of look over the 3, count 'em three, story arcs. And keep in mind, the "Sinestro Corps" section really cannot support more than one as it stands right now. That section is best served by an image of the character as he appears through the bulk of the arc, not necessarily the most recent developments. - J Greb 21:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

As I see it, there are two options for the infobox. The first appearance cover or the first panel in the last page in the Superman-Prime story, scarred chest and all. The cover is awful for an article, since it doesn't show a damn thing, with the added benefit of having the wrong scar and being redundant with the image already in the Sinestro Corps section. The trend of "NEW COVER! MUST UPLOAD!" has to stop. There should not be more than four images in this article: his original look, his armor from Infinite Crisis, his outfit from "Sinestro Corps War", and him with just his super-pants and chest scar. And the last one's borderline. ' 23:46, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

As far as the 'box goes, the more I think about it, the more "none" seems the best answer. The blue and red, IC armor, and the yellow are of equal weight for IDing the character. The bared chest slightly less so. Since all are equally valid, any becomes a contentious choice.

As for the articles... 5 would actually work:

1. DCCP #87 - 1st appearance/Crisis section.
2. "Superboy Punch" - Explaining use of the character as a plot device to explain continuity errors.
3. IC armor - Either the cover or his reappearance for the IC section.
4. The 5 panel sequence - With the plot point ending IC and foreshadowing the "Corps War".
5. The yellow - For the Sinestro Corps section.

- J Greb 05:16, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that seems acceptable. ' 18:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Scanned portion of the one-shot. --CmdrClow 03:36, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

And it is still an "Oh new image, gotta add" action that is not needed. - J Greb 12:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

No, the discussion was about the inaccuracy of the cover of the one shot, which I conceded. I gave you his current representation as per requested and now you're just looking for excuses to remove it. --CmdrClow 13:21, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the cover was piss-poor from the guide line stand point. But there was also the argument that the only reason it was posted was it was "today"'s version and has no more weight, and arguably considerably less, than the other three costumes.

Since none of the four is definitive or iconic for the character, it became a point of contention. The best way to handle it is to not have a 'box image at this time and to have a discussion to find consensus before placing an image.

All you've done at this point is aggravate a situation that had, by all appearances, been settled. - J Greb 22:58, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I note that his appearance in Crisis on Infinite Earths and in the first half of Infinite Crisis was a standard Superboy appearance. This seems to me to suggest that this is the best image to use. Then again, I'm biased towards older images of characters - to my mind, Superboy Prime (I'd keep the article there too, btw - he's made one appearance under the new name, and the new name has been pretty explicitly admitted to be for legal reasons) is a character who, for 20 years, had one appearance, and who has, in the course of basically one continuing story arc, changed appearances a few times. I'd go with the classic appearance and be done with it until one of the newer ones remains unchanged (whether through lack of appearance of the character or through actual consistency) for a decade or so. Phil Sandifer 23:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

My choice would be Image:Primepunch.PNG, as it both shows the character and conveys visually that he is, and always has been, seemed to have the function of a "reality-changer", while at the same time showing the outfit with which he is best identified. If, over time, he should become a more frequently used character, and become better known by his new appearance, that would merit a change, but the newer looks are not at this time particularly good identifiers of the character in general. I also at this point would agree to Superboy Prime as the name of the article, as that is the name he has been most frequently referred to by. John Carter 23:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

That isn't unreasonable.

I definitely concur with Phil Sandifer specific reasoning and J Greb's broader points about not chasing the very latest image.

So yes to him as he has been shown for a long time - in pretty general Superman gear - the cover being used could be confusing (as it has the main Supes on) and that Primepunch certainly conveys a lot. Anyone got any other examples? (Emperor 23:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC))

I can see where John Carter's suggestion comes from, but there are a couple of quibbles:

• "Punch", with the sound fx, fails the infobox guides - we lose 1/2 the character and chest symbol.
• We're still pushing one aspect among many... well two... of roughly equal weight. I can see Phil's argument, the red-n-blue was how the character was introduced in COIE, and how it was presented for the lead up to, and bulk of IC, but the armor had its own push from DC with the DC Direct toy.

If there is a comparable, cleaner image like "Punch", I could see it, but still with major reservations. It's almost a case of favoring old for old's sake as much as new for new's sake. - J Greb 00:33, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I saw this over at the WikiProject Comics talk page, so I thought I'd add in my two cents. I very much see and understand Phil's opinion on using the classic Superboy look. His reasons are valid. However, we must remember he is no regular Superboy. He is a Superboy who has turned evil and become a supervillian. That is what he is most known as nowadays, with his efforts in COIE being thought of as an afterthought. I feel as though the image should be one that distinguishes the difference between Superboy-Prime, and the other Superboys/Supermen. That leaves his IC armor and his Sinestro Corps armor. Out of those two, I would pick the IC armor, as IC was a much bigger thing than the Sinestro Corps (at least, as far as I know, if I'm wrong about that, please let me know). When you think of Superboy-Prime, odds are you see him in his IC armor. Also, personally I think the pic of him in his IC armor is a better picture than the other pictures on the page. That is just an opinion, so you don't have to take that into consideration, but we should try to use the best picture we can, and that's what I think is the best picture. We could go without a picture, but considering at the very least his historical significance, I think the article warrants a picture at the top. Also, I agree with Phil on leaving the article at Superboy-Prime, but that's a totally different matter. Anakinjmt 02:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

• No picture until all parties can agree on the best one.

• • Good points have been made stating concerns that there's no decent current one to use.
  • Good points have been made regarding using a more current one.
  • Good points have been made regarding an older, more established image.
• A compromise needs to be worked out here. Some pages of use might be an essay on recentism and Wikipedia:Non-free content. Personally, I think the most important facet to consider is item 8 of our non-free criteria, Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. Non-free media files are not used if they can be replaced by text that serves a similar function. Which image best serves this purpose and where is that image best located? Does the infobox even have to have an image? Hiding Talk 10:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

• I think NFC #8 nutshells my reservations: the character's usage is so thin that no one image conveys the topic. "Punch" is the closest, but it requires a lot of explanation as to what is seen. It's almost to the point that we need to step back and ask the following: If we had an image of just the character standing there, no background or props, which costume would be the instant, iconic recognition of Superboy/man-Prime?
  When all is said and done, I don't think we have that one costume. Instead we have a character that has had 4 looks over 3 stories. None really fit the purpose of an infobox image. Spot images in the article? Yes, but not the 'box. - J Greb 12:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

• Oh, and if the name change is made for explicitly de-lineated legal reasons, why the hell isn't it in the article? There's an awful lot of plot here and not a lot of critical evaluation. We're an encyclopedia, remember. It's worrying that almost every reference is to a comic book. Hiding Talk 10:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

• I brought up a similar point in the section below. And to be blunt there are at least three items that should be addressed in a PH prior to getting into the plot summary:
  1. The prior character using the name "Superman-Prime" from the DC 1,000,000 event;
  2. The Superman: Secret Identity series and that writer has stated that it was intended as the "Superboy-Prime Origin"; and
  3. Citable information about the reason(s) why DC changed Superboy-Prime to Superman-Prime.

The same section can get into the laying out, with cites, of how the writers and editors view the character and want to use him. - J Greb 12:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with J Greb—we really don't have that one picture to use. I still think that the IC armor shot is the best shot, and I really love that picture, but we don't have the one picture that best represents him. As for the reasoning behind the name change, we know about the Superboy lawsuit between DC and the Siegel family. I think people are just assuming Superboy-Prime was changed to Superman-Prime because of the lawsuit, just like how people were assuming about why they killed off Superboy in IC before they were told he would be killed off anyways, and we all know what happens when you assume. Anakinjmt 14:02, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

The black suited Superman that just showed up in Countdown is Superman-Prime. Look at next week's preview at the bottom of this page: [2] --CmdrClow 06:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Forgive me, but that has to do with the issue at hand...how, exactly? Anakinjmt 06:43, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Because his appearance has made a drastic change, and has finally become a bit more unique. That could (and should) affect the decision. --CmdrClow 06:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Um.. it just reinforces the "No 'box image" argument: 5 costumes over 3 story arcs... The only upside is it will act as a damn good example of why we don't guess: Since its release a few editors have been trying to place the black clad "Superman" in the second Countdown teaser as the "Superman Returns From the Dead" version. - J Greb 07:51, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree unless it becomes his mainstay appearance for more than at least few months, preferably over a year or two. --CmdrClow 01:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

My opinon is that a current image (at this time would be something from Legion of Three Worlds) be used in the info box, and that all other pictures remain on the article as they are. Only reason, is to help people that do not know the character identify him. Sgetz (talk) 15:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

The most powerful Villain

Why does this keep getting erased. Both Dan Didio and Geoff Johns have said he is the most powerful supervillain in the DCU opposite the now most powerful Superhero in Sodam Yat. This is important because it is a powerful dynamic of characters in the DCU, Superman is the archtypal hero and it should be noted, as should Superman-Prime as the most powerful supervillain. People often ask who is the most powerful etc. And in curent continuity. Superman-Prime is the most powerful supervillain. --Killingthedream 09:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

(1) You provided no source for their saying that. (2) What they say in interview doesn't matter for what counts in the context of the publication. (3) They could easily have been speaking in hyperbole. (4) They could have been joking. (5) They could have been drunk. (6) It's not in the comics. Doczilla 09:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

---

You are telling me that the editor in chief of DC comics says that he is the most powerful supervillain, and the guy who recreated him also says the same thing and you say it's hyperbole. That makes no sense. Also in the comics it has been said he can take on anyone and is the most dangerous, that qualifies him as the most powerful supervillain(see i said supervillain, not person). --Killingthedream 12:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

One refrain and one new-ish comment:

Refrain: The statement needs a verifiable, reliable source cited, otherwise it smacks of reader/fan speculation.

New-ish: As this article is currently written, it is only dealing with in-universe information with regard to the Superboy/man-Prime character. Editor and/or writer comments do not fit with that structure. Such comment belong in a "Publication history" section, a section this article sorely needs, where how the publisher, editor(s), and writer(s) have handled the creation of the character, it use, and hyped it can be laid out, with cited statements. - J Greb 15:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The editor in chief has made statements about characters that turned out not to be accurate because authors had other intentions (e.g., the post-IC existence of Linda Danvers/Matrix). Until it appears in the comic, it's not official. Doczilla 22:10, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The author himself, Geoff Johns has said that Superboy prime is the most powerful supervillain, doesn't mean being, just bad guy. The in universe storytelling itself makes note that he is the most powerful supervillain. What does it need in your eyes? A certificate of Authenticity "Superboy-Prime is hereby noted as most powerful Supervillain". The fact is that in the DC Universe he is the most powerful Supervillain. And you can ask Didio or Geoff Johns the two people running his whole story and the DCU. --Killingthedream 07:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Refrain: The statement needs a verifiable, reliable source cited, otherwise it smacks of reader/fan speculation. Find your source and add it as a reference at the same time you re add the line. - J Greb 12:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Both Doc and J Greb are right. You need to source it and you need to present it as representing the sources. So you need to state that Mr X and Mr y have said "blah blah blah", although how this will be represented within the DC Universe is not clear, or words to a similar effect. Hiding Talk 10:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

New Photo

I don't like a wiki article on comic books without a photo of the character. I've added the Infinite Crisis Superboy-Prime until a more recent "Superman-Prime" picutre is put up.

Hal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haljordan9 (talk • contribs) 03:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's fine and all that you don't "like" it, but a consensus has been reached above stating that, for now, there will be no picture in the infobox, because there is not a picture available that best portrays the character. Anakinjmt (talk) 04:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Plot summary?

There's a template tag saying the plot summary is too long compared to the rest of the article, but the article doesn't have a plot summary... 201.230.78.11 (talk) 18:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Please put new comments at the bottom of the page. I think it is talking about the whole article is too long, but I don't know, as I did not put the tag up. Anakinjmt (talk) 20:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you think the template tag should be removed? 201.230.175.250 (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Being called "fictional character biography" doesn't mean it's not plot. ' 17:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Just look at the section subheaders;

• 1.1 Crisis on Infinite Earths
• 1.2 Altering reality
• 1.3 Countdown to Infinite Crisis
• 1.4 Infinite Crisis
• 1.5 Sinestro Corps
• 1.6 Countdown

These are all just rehashing the plotlines of various storylines. Pairadox (talk) 03:10, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That's point 1 of the tag, since the FCB is at least 1/2 of the article. Point 2 covers the FCB and the Powers section. There is all but 0 real world context there, and those two section are over 1/2 the article. - J Greb (talk) 03:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Continuing Name Issues

In the solicitation for Legion of Three Worlds #1 on DC's official website, he is again referred to as Superboy-Prime.[3] Is he able to be called this again? Should the article's name change when the issue comes out? --CmdrClow (talk) 21:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

That's the same place where we're seeing the first iteration of his armor, right?

In that case it's possible that the character appearing there is out of sequence. And changing this article's name based on that is a bad idea. Actually, it's worse than that since we're left guessing about a book that isn't going to be out until August.

Best case? Tweak the "Final Crisis" section to include the real world context that DC's solicitation for the mini identifies the character as "Superboy-Prime". And then wait for either further information in the industry news or for the book to go on sale. - J Greb (talk) 22:02, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't appear out of sequence, since Geoff Johns has hinted that his being thrust forward through time is the result of his actions in Countdown. He's also said that the name Superman-Prime was an issue of ego for the character, since he was the only one who didn't see himself as a boy anymore. --CmdrClow (talk) 07:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

First, where and how was that hinted at — an interview or an interpretation of Countdown?

Second, where's the explanation/statement coming from?

Last, DC made a concerted effort to brand the character "Superman-Prime", up to and including using that name as part of a comic book title. - J Greb (talk) 10:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

They needed a viable story explanation to call him Superman-Prime as opposed to Superboy-Prime. From Tales of the Sinestro Corps: Superman-Prime:

"...And they have recruited the most frightening and most powerful beings to battle alongside them, including a Kryptonian boy from a parallel world long dead...a boy who would like to think of himself as Superman-Prime."

If you'll notice, no other characters other than Prime himself referred to him as Superman-Prime. He hinted at the fallout from Countdown not only in the first preview page from Legion of Three Worlds (where Prime is drawn wearing tatters of his black costume) but also in a Wizard interview, one of the two issues numbered 200 I believe. --CmdrClow (talk) 04:18, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

The name issues have apparently been resolved, according to this panel and words from Dan DiDio himself: [4]. Since he's going to be known as Superboy-Prime again with Legion of Three Worlds, I recommend changing the article's name back to Superboy-Prime. --CmdrClow (talk) 23:29, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Just 2 things...

1. Is the anything other than DD's single off hand comment as to how/why they "can call him that again"?
2. I'd still prefer to have the comic in hand first. Nothing is lost by waiting, and, at least to me, it looks better than changing the name again if it turns out DC wasn't going to, or couldn't, change the name.

- J Greb (talk) 00:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Addendum...

Though, if the article actually had a publication history section for the real world context, adding that tidbit there might not be a bad idea. But such a section would also need to have material, from reliable sources, on how and why DC pushed "Superman-Prime". - J Greb (talk) 00:04, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's the previously mentioned solicitation referring to him again as Superboy-Prime, and there are numerous panels from the past where DiDio stated that he couldn't say the name "Superboy" even if the fans could (DiDio said it to me directly twice at the Emerald City Con in Seattle). The panels have numerous online sources, and given DiDio's position in the company and the desire from the legal end to be relatively quiet, then that's probably the most reliable source you'd find. --CmdrClow (talk) 01:32, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

There is mention of it at at DC Comics' first presentation, the Superman: The Man of Tomorrow panel of Comic-Con International 2008 by Geoff Johns - "Can you use the Superboy name? Johns: "Superboy-Prime's a different character, we're okay with him. We can't really talk about it, though, that's more of a DC question."" [5] Sgetz (talk) 14:56, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me the change was overzealous and reactionary in the first place. He's been Superboy-Prime for 20+ years. Any fame or notoriety he has is under the name Superboy-Prime. This should be a lesson for future similar situations. 69.3.84.123 (talk) 07:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Krypton

It says at the beginning that he was teleported to Earth just before Krypton was destroyed and in the powers section that he is not vulnerable to kryptonite since his Krypton was never destroyed. Which is which? --Leocomix (talk) 10:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think it says that his Krypton was swallowed by the sun--meaning it didn't explode like in the traditional mythos King Zeal (talk) 12:07, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the thing is that his Krypton did not explode into Kryptonite, it was swallowed up. Also, there is the whole Multiverse issue of Kryptonite, such that Kryptonians are only weak against the Green (and other colors) of Kryptonite of their universe, and are not effected by the Kryptonite of another Earth. This is why Power Girl (of Earth-2) is not effected, but Supergirl and Krypto are. Sgetz (talk) 02:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Power Girl has shown the occasional weakness to Kryptonite. Could it be psychological? Or did pieces of Kryptonite from Earth-2 punch their way into the current dimension? --AlGorup (talk) 17:06, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

This article should be moved to Superboy-Prime because not only is this the name by which the character is best known but in his most recent appearance in Legion of 3 Worlds (and in its solicitation) he is again referred to solely as "Superboy-Prime".--Darknus823 (talk) 00:04, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I support the move to SB-Prime. Spiderboy12 (talk) 16:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

As do I. --CmdrClow (talk) 07:39, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Isn't there still some legal matter with DC using the name Superboy? I'm confused. Don^MEGĂ|60645 15:43, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so, since they've been referring to him as Superboy-Prime in the Legion of Three Worlds story. Nutiketaiel (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

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