Talk:Sri Lankan Civil War

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Use of advocacy groups as sources[edit]

@Oz346, it was clearly stated in the the RSN that advocacy groups such as ITJP statements by advocacy groups are WP:PRIMARY source. Hence can not be used as facts in an inforbox. Cossde (talk) 11:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RSN said that it can be used with attribution, which it has. Oz346 (talk) 12:07, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, you have misunderstood the RSN. It said attribution can be made for their stance - as opinion and not as accepted fact. A inforbox contain facts. Cossde (talk) 12:32, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who said that these figures have all been portrayed as "accepted fact"? This is why we have explicit attribution, to imply that the figure is "according to". I have now added the qualifier "estimates" to make it more clear. Even the UN figures which you re-added can not be regarded as established fact, hence why they are all explicitly attributed. Oz346 (talk) 12:55, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, no, the inforbox is not a WP:SOAPBOX for every advocacy group's opinion. That is why I simplified by keeping only the figures presented by the UN. That meets the WP WP:NPOV requirement. Cossde (talk) 13:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not advocacy nor a soapbox the current infobox. I don't know how anyone could get that impression. Statements by human rights groups and advocacy groups can be cited on wikipedia, if they have been explicitly attributed. And this has been done countless times on Wikipedia. The initial UN estimate regarding the total death toll for the whole conflict (100,000) is less accurate and contradicts their own later, more accurate figures. So the UN figures are certainly not always better in this regard. Oz346 (talk) 13:51, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, so you are saying the UN is not reliable? Cossde (talk) 14:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No i'm not saying that. Oz346 (talk) 14:58, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, you said The initial UN estimate regarding the total death toll for the whole conflict (100,000) is less accurate and contradicts their own later, more accurate figures , as I understand, you are saying that advocacy groups are more accurate than the UN. Cossde (talk) 15:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

no I'm not saying that. Individual statements of a group whether the UN or ITJP should be assessed on their own merits. It is possible for the UN to be more accurate in some statements, and less accurate in other statements (the 100,000 figure for the whole conflict is clearly inaccurate, and has already been discussed here years ago). In any case, the UN also advocates for human rights. By this questionable logic no human rights source can be cited.Oz346 (talk) 16:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, No that's not what you said before. You clearly said that UN figures are inaccurate. According to your early statement the advocacy groups have more merit that the UN. Now you are saying the UN is the same as advocacy groups. You are contradicting yourself. Cossde (talk) 13:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

no, I said that the first UN figure of 100,000 for the entire conflict is inaccurate. Their follow up figures of 40,000-75,000 for the final phase in 2009 are more accurate estimates. But it is likely closer to 100,000 for the last phase.

Please read what I have written carefully and aloud, so you do not miss what I say. Oz346 (talk) 14:26, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, there you go again, disputing the UN figures: 100,000 for the entire conflict is inaccurate, it is likely closer to 100,000 for the last phase. So according to you the UN is not reliable and the advocacy groups are. Cossde (talk) 14:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, under "Estimates of civilian death toll" in the infobox, the first three bullets have references which all say "people killed," not "civilians killed." Combatants could be included in that figure. SinhalaLion (talk) 03:02, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected. Oz346 (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, you are yet to confirm on the reliability of the UN. Cossde (talk) 12:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I already answered you, you keep on misinterpreting what I am saying. We keep going around in circles. Please read my replies more carefully, read them aloud if you have to. Oz346 (talk) 12:18, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oz346, you don't have to be uncivil by saying "read them aloud if you have to". I am trying to understand why you think that the advocacy groups are more reliable than the UN as a source for figures for an inforbox. Cossde (talk) 12:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]