Talk:Shintaro Ishihara/Archive 1

Archive 1

Article Headline

"Shintaro Ishihara" - 6,180 pages in English. "Ishihara Shintaro" - 1,780 pages in English.

I think this should be moved. WhisperToMe 23:13, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Right decision, wrong reason. It's Wikipedia to do firstname-lastname ordering for Japanese names in English text. You don't do that because more web pages do so. You do it because it's the correct thing.

[208.54.15.1, 9 Mar 2005]

It's not as clear as all that which is "correct", Wiki- or otherwise. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style for Japan-related articles/Naming order.

—wwoods 18:45, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

That's just an archived discussion. The MOS itself has a section about it: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Names of modern figures for the definitive rule. (^_^) --日本穣 02:29, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Could we have a bit more added about Ishihara's literature? No matter what his politics are now he did win the Akutagawa prize.

Controversy about Ishihara and the term 三国人 [2000]

• Ishihara said that "firstly the meaning of the word [三国人] is "stranger" and that, secondly, it had been used after WII, referring to people who belonged to former japanese colonies OR to American soldiers during the" US Occupation of Japan".Another way it was used was when American soldiers broke into our houses. We said very big sangokujin broke in. He explained that this popular word might have been not understood by younger generations, hence he had used in the same allocution the term of Gaikokujin, which means also "Stanger".
  Ishihara, on different occasions and different controversies, presented apologies. But in this case, he seems to be quite confident of what he advanced. TIME magazine, April 200. TIME APRIL 24, 2000 VOL. 155 NO. 16 Ishihara is a good friend of the Democratic President of Taiwan, President Chen, and he is popular in Taiwan. In fact, critics of this speech came mostly from Korea and communist China, as a way to make pressure on Japan in order to gain points in real diplomatic issues, like the "disputes of territory's limits ". Critics of Korea and China may be justified, but the origin and points of critics have to be specified in an Annex-article of the Ishihara's Wikiarticle, and presented in a fair way representing both opponents's arguments.

Forgive my sehr schlecht english.
Oe kintaro 09:26, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

• 三国人 is a term which refers people in Taiwan, Korea, and China. It does not mean "third world" at all. In Japanese, "third world" is "第三世界" and we have never used 三国人 to refer people in 第三世界.

--Flowerofchivalry 21:29, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Controversy about Ishihara and the Frenchies :D [2004-2005]

• In 2004 the metropolitan government decided to reorganize the Tokyo Metropolitan University more professionally in the aim of reducing budget's deficit and assuring students's success. The decision of merging the foreign language departments was made on the fact that there was too much teacher for too few students. French Language department and German Language department have been closed down, and the courses in French and German were to be dispensed in the "Forein Languages Department" with a significative decrease in teacher's number and in teacher's allowance. In consequence the French teachers opposed Tokyo University's reform , and denied the metropolitan government's right to perform the reform and reclaimed "to be heard". In October 2004, Ishihara, during a speech for Tokyo U-Club, club supporting the reform, made an allusion to the "infruitful opposition". He said that there was no student in German and French, and too much syndicalist-teachers. Then he mocked his opponents, and made a joke on french language in referring to the absurd way of counting in France (Not in Belgium or Switzerland ).Example : "Seventy" in France is "sixty and ten (soixante et dix)". In belgium Seventy is "seventy" (septante). Ishihara made this joke, cause he studied french language in France , and cause, like His old mentor Mishima he's fond of French Culture (like every human being on Planet Earth, isn't it :D). Ishihara is known, especially, for his passion of Dadaism.(french artistic movement.) A lot of France Culture admirers , in Japan, haven't understood this quote ( they haven't heard about these political activists), thus Ishihara has explained on television that he loves and respects French people, French Culture and French language. He explained that the quote was a joke destined to the activists. Despite his explanations , in June 2005, a Director of Tokyo-based private french language school has tried ,with a group of french teachers, to sue Ishihara for "Racism and Xenophobic words , to protect "the Honor of France and French people". And for "the Honor of France", he claimed 500 000 yens for Him and each member of his group.How pathetic... The "real person in charge of the France Honour",France's Ambassador in Tokyo, said there was no reason to begin a controversy on the basis of faggots's gossips. No need to say That this judicial attempt as No Chance to be effective.

Forgive my sehr schlecht english.
Oe kintaro 09:26, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Other Controversies and Gossips about Ishara's Quotes

• - About Baba
  

Fact : Ishihara is not a moralist on sex issue. His novel, Season of Sun has made a terrible scandal in the 50's, because of violence and luxury.He's not a "machist". But regarding the low fecondity of japanese population, which is may be Number One Issue, and as a tough politician, his words may be quite rude and excessive, but reflects the doubts and fears of all japanese.

- About Communist Chinese Space Program.
Fact : Well it's true, although Communists Chinese have made real progress recently, their technology is still retarded, in comparison with top countries like US, Russia, Japan and France. And Ishihara hates commies.Thus he likes to show this reality.

- About Tanaka :
Nothing exceptionnal in japanese political life. Politicians, in Japan, men and women, are specialized in "real speech". Recently deputy Shizuka Kamei accused Prime Minister Koizumi to send Assassin in order to terminate him.

- About Nankin :
Fact :The reality of Nankin Incident is investigated by researchers in Anglo-saxon, japanese and chinese universities. For the moment , the most accurate and precised researches are the anglosaxon and the japanese ones. The number presented by the communist government of the Popular Republic of China seems to be exaggerated as a way to make pressure on Japan. Exactly as the anti-japanese demonstrations in April 2005, was a way to stop Japan in his movement towards UNO Security Council.
Forgive my sehr schlecht english.
Oe kintaro 09:26, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

• About a month ago, before this nationalist came along and cleansed the page, the entry for Ishihara was far more accurate. He is a man who has made numerous surreal statements such as:

‘The most harmful thing that civilisation has brought about is baba (old hags). It is sinful for a woman to continue to live after she loses her reproductive capacity’

In response to China's first successful launch of a man in space: "The Chinese are ignorant, so they are overjoyed. That spacecraft was an outdated one. If Japan wanted to do it, we could do it in one year."

Regarding the bomb-planting of the private residence of Deputy Foreign Minister Hitoshi Tanaka: "A bomb was planted there. I think it was deserved."

Regarding the Rape of Nanjing, in which up to 300,000 people were murdered by the Japanese Imperial Army: "They say we made a holocaust there, but that is not true. It is a lie made up by the Chinese."

Ok, 5 yrs later, I guess you mean the The Truth about Nanjing which Ishihara, Yoshiko Sakurai and the like asserts, and perhaps the Yomiuri Shimbun Sankei Shimbun and affiliated televison networks may be inclined to support? --Makesdark (talk) 13:02, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Far right?

Is there something proving he's NOT far right? As far as things go, he is extremist, nationalist, fits all the description of "far right".
-- Миборовский ^U|T|C|E 18:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Unbalanced "See also" section

The unbalanced "See also" section doesn't help readers. That only works for the purpose of insulting Ishihara. If you have anything to be noted, then edit the main text. Feigenbaum 06:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

If you're so worried about Ishihara's image then add Humanitarian to the see-also section and see if it lasts.
-- Миборовский ^U|T|C|E 07:15, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Hey, it is as meaningless as adding "Genocide", "Dictator," etc to "See also" sections of George W. Bush, Mao Zedong and Chang Kai-shek. Feigenbaum 07:53, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Explain. Wild claims isn't going to be of any use.
-- Миборовский ^U|T|C|E 09:23, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Can't you say anything substantial? Feigenbaum 04:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Can't you say anything substantial?
-- Миборовский ^U|T|C|E 04:49, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I made the mistake of putting this page on my watchlist, and I've noticed the back and forth going on. Regardless of the outcome, I think you guys would do a lot more to further your beliefs by adding more info on Ishihara's history and past actions. I am much more interested to hear what famous or notable people say about Ishihara than a couple of semi-anonymous randoms with a computer and an internet connection. Stop and think about who will read this article. They probably already read in some newspaper or website that this Ishihara guy is off the hook and want to learn some more about the guy. So they already know that he says extreme things and is controversial. Readers are smart enough to know that facts speak louder than labels, that Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and that articles on controversial subjects and people are all questionable. Please don't degenerate Wikipedia into just another bulletin board. If you guys took all the time you've spent trying to convince each other and dug up some info on the man instead you would've come out far ahead. There's so much knowledge out there to learn and so little time and you guys are just wasting your time on each other. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Ken6en 05:38, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Point taken. That does not mean however that Adolf Hitler should not have anything on the Holocaust just because everyone knows that already.
-- Миборовский ^U|T|C|E 05:43, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

the latest "POV" tag

Might the editor who added it explain why he/she did so?
-- Миборовский ^U|T|C|E 05:51, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Just read this Talk page
For a true NPOV article read the French article, we should probably translate it in English. 8pb8 06:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Mickey Mouse

How exactly is Ishihara's disliking of Mickey Mouse notable? Seems to me like a perfectly valid opinion to prefer Japanese animations. Kind of like saying that he has stated he prefers Japanese food to french fries.

Oh, and the discussion page is a mess.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.103.198.76 (talk • contribs) .

I prefer Japanese animation to Mickey Mouse myself. That preference is not, in itself, notable. However Ishihara stated the preference along with a sweeping generalisation about Japanese racial superiority, which is notable, especially in line with his other statements about race and the Japanese —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.87.39.135 (talk • contribs) .

The "Mickey Mouse denounced at Tokyo anime fair" link is outdated. Should I replace it with a "citation needed"?Mackan 03:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

References

Parts of this reference section need to be reworked to conform to appropriate Wikipedia citation format. The reference section isn't the place for detailed footnotes as in reference #1, #2 and #3. It's very hard to follow, especially since it makes reference to articles in Japanese. While that's not a problem itself, it's difficult for an outside editor to follow the citations for checking. Wildhartlivie 12:21, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Republic of China AKA taiwan

i just want these right wing japanese dumbskulls to know, that the people of the republic of china AKa taiwan DO NOT support eveil japanse right wing suckers despit what he is trying to do, to divide the chinese people, stay the hell out of taiwan.70.107.77.103 (talk) 00:51, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Is this really relevant to the article? I don't like Ishihara anymore than any other average foreigner, but I don't think "he's trying to divide the Chinese people" is verifiable. --Bakarocket (talk) 09:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Shintaro-Ishihara-Season-of-the-Sun.png

The image Image:Shintaro-Ishihara-Season-of-the-Sun.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --23:08, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Politics and controversy

Recent edits removed mention of Ishihara's political bent and controversial statements, reverting these. Ishihara is governor of the world's largest city, his political beliefs and frequent controversial statements are more important than the sailing or motorcycling he did five decades ago. Please discuss here before again removing content. Thanks. RomaC (talk) 09:07, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Ishihara is a xenophobic right wing conservative. His legislation is more tuned to keep him self and others elected then to good governance of Tokyo.118.243.252.251 (talk) 08:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Ishihara's homophobic remarks

"Recent comments against homosexuality by Tokyo Gov. Shintaro Ishihara are creating outrage among Japan's gay community. In his commentary on a gay-theme novel that won the prestigious Akutagawa Prize in January, Ishihara, one of the eight judges for the prize, said homosexuality is abnormal." more information about: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0XPQ/is_2000_April_3/ai_61635352/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.14.89.12 (talk) 06:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Ishihara's Anti-Violence/Ecchi/Crime in Anime, Video Games, and Manga Law

Apparently Shintarō Ishihara is campaigning to pass a law in 2011 that would either ban or restrict any anime, manga, or video game that depicts violence, sex, crime, homosexuality, or anything else that could be construed as "a bad influence on youth", and anything of the above depicting minors. The law would make it illegal to own, create, and sell such products. The anime and manga company Kodokawa Shoten has taken a stand against Ishihara and is opposing this law. Personally, I feel it's unlikely the law will be passed due to its potential negative impact on Japan's economy, but this is definitely something to add to the Legislative career or the Political views sections. 173.180.89.129 (talk) 13:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

The law passed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sl600rt (talk • contribs) 14:46, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

It passed? Whoa... we can say goodbye to pretty much every single anime and manga series in existence, then, 'cause there are very few that don't contain some measure of ecchiness and/or violence. This does not bode well for Japan's economy... and isn't it hypocritical of Ishihara to be outlawing ecchi and violent manga and anime when he writes explicit porn novels? Regardless, the law should still be mentioned in this article. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 15:58, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Ishihara has made comments in public claiming that otaku are genetically defective. The bill is vaguely worded and has no provision prohibiting possession by the end consumer. Ishihara's written works with content such as rape, are legal as long as they are printed word or live action only. If one of his books was turned into a manga, anime, or video game it would then be banned for sale and production unless its in the adult corner. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.243.252.251 (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

So... Ishihara's bill just makes things so that it's kind of like how Playboy is prohibited for sale to minors in the West, then. Ishihara apparently has no understanding of genetics, and I can't argue with the "vaguely worded" part of his bill. I mean, even kids anime/manga and games like Pokémon and Digimon have situations and content that could be called violent or ecchi, but that doesn't mean they should be lumped together with hentai. And since he's only the governor of Tokyo and not the Emperor, Shogun, or Prime Minister, won't his law only effect Tokyo? 173.180.89.129 (talk) 01:28, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Ishihara is a member of the LDP. he has support of the party which is most likely to have full power of the national government next election. Also they way politics is over here how ever tokyo goes so goes the rest of the nation. Osaka all ready has legislation aimed at anime/manga/videogames. Ishihara and others have been trying to get such legislation passed for years. They are more concerned about the opinions of moral conservative westerners then effects of legislation on an all ready struggling industry. go to sankakucomplex.com and ignore the NSFW content and look at all the articles about ishihara and anime/manga bans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sl600rt (talk • contribs) 07:44, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, I think we should get sources for this besides sankakucomplex. While it's the easiest english-language source to find, the articles there have a very strong anti-Ishihara bias (while I share most of that bias, I'm reasonable enough to be aware that it's not exactly what's wanted or needed here). Also, can we get some info on his more recent gay- and otaku-bashing, as well as about the alleged rape content of his novels and their context? Paireon (talk) 09:20, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Controversy about numerous POVs in the article

• This article is not a NPOV article.

- It represents certainly the minority which opposes Ishihara in Japan but, in no way, the majority who supports Ishihara.(70% of voters) - Ishihara is a TOP-politician in Japan.

- Ishihara is not a Nationalist, neither a populist. POV . Accurate description? : Former Liberal-Democrat, Independant Conservative and famous politician.

- The Biography is incomplete

- The Bibliography is inconsequent

- The Filmography doesn't exist

- There is only gossips on what he might have said.
Read my different critics in this discussion.
Forgive my sehr schlecht english.
Oe kintaro 09:26, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I suggest that if a politician si to be described as far right, some reliable source must be cited. As an NDP member, Ishihara should be presumed not be to far right, but right wing or conservative. I would suggest describing him as right wing, rather than far right.203.184.41.226 (talk) 06:56, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Uncited opinions about Ishihara's politics or anything else controversial should be removed from the article forthwith, just delete them and write "removed uncited opinion" in the edit summary. The above comment dates from seven years ago and is no longer relevant to the current article. JoshuSasori (talk) 07:03, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

This person gives his name as Shintaro without a macron

This person gives his name as "Shintaro" with no macron on his official website and on the Tokyo governor's website. Using a macron on the wikipedia article contravenes the rule here. JoshuSasori (talk) 12:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest starting a move request as per the MOS guidelines you quote. You will probably find that a lot of Japanese articles have had macrons indiscriminately added over the years in the belief that that is "correct" even if common English usage tends not to use diacritics. --DAJF (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Shintaro Ishihara. Favonian (talk) 17:17, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

---

Shintarō Ishihara → Shintaro Ishihara – This person gives his name as "Shintaro" with no macron on his official website and on the Tokyo governor's website. Using a macron on the wikipedia article contravenes the rule here. JoshuSasori (talk) 04:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

• Support. As per nom, there is extensive coverage of this person's name in reliable/official English language sources without the macron, so that is where the article should be moved to. --DAJF (talk) 15:52, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
• Support. The Japan Times, Mainichi, Yomiuri, and NHK, not to mention BBC, all give the subject without a diacritic. Kauffner (talk) 03:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Old discussion archiving

I've set up archiving for old discussions here. I hope this is acceptable. If not then please discuss here. JoshuSasori (talk) 07:03, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Ninety days and out seems pretty quick to me when there's no pressure for space here. Recurrent questions can come up over lon-n-g cycles. :-) Swliv (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

OK what do you want to change it to? JoshuSasori (talk) 02:35, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

It's my first exposure to automatic archiving. I'd be comfortable with manual execution when it "gets too big". I guess I'd be comfortable with a year or two as the trigger if you wish to stick with the auto-approach. Thanks. Swliv (talk) 03:04, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Sunrise Party name, coalition relations

I rewrote this line in the intro -- "Since November 2012, he has led the Japan Restoration Party" -- to bring SP into it. I'm not sure I have it right -- I also added some to the SP section -- but think it's important to maintain the distinction (as best I can make it out from afar). Thanks. Swliv (talk) 04:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Un autre view of all this chewed over here. Fun /:-|. Swliv (talk) 00:31, 11 December 2012 (UTC) On this latter one, I've returned the text to my language here (with "113" instead of "131" -- IP number ref.; my mistake -- in the summary); if there's a citation to show me wrong, I welcome correction from there. Thanks. Swliv (talk) 21:20, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks like it's been resolved well. I wasn't fully on track but cites and chronology were needed and have been provided. Thanks. Swliv (talk) 05:32, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Religion?

User:Shii has, twice now, changed the stated religion in this person's infobox to "Reiyūkai", apparently showing a misunderstanding of how religion in Japan works.[1][2] Just because a reliable source has linked Ishihara to a particular religious association, it does not mean his religious views differ radically from those of other Japanese, mixing Shinto and Buddhist beliefs. Claiming in an infobox, with no context, that he is only a member of a very specific Buddhist group and does not, say, regularly visit a particular SHINTO shrine seems inappropriate. Also, the book was published more than a decade ago, when (as far as I remember) Ishihara was a member of the LDP (he is now the leader of a rival party) -- who says his religious affiliation hasn't also changed in that time? I really don't see what the point of classifying Japanese politicians according to religion is, anyway -- it seems to have crept in to all articles on politicians based on its use in American politics. Sarumaru the Poet (talk) 12:10, 20 June 2013 (UTC)