Talk:Sawan Singh

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Untitled[edit]

why "hinduism" portal? Baba Sawan Singh was born in a Sikh family and then he followed a Radhasoami Master... nothing about Hinduism! --GurDass (talk) 05:50, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

removed hindu stub --GurDass (talk) 08:54, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

successor jungle[edit]

Hi Gurdass. The whole succession thing could open a can of worms. I would like to avoid that. So... I suggest in the interest of neutrality can we agree it is safe and fair to state without contoversiality that at Beas, Sardar Bahadur Maharaj Jagat Singh was the appointed succesor by a registered will. Other missions also started at other places in India. I have reverted your edit as you have deleted these distinctions. Disputes over who is the rightful successor should be avoided here. Baba Sawan was the succesor at Beas to his Guru. And Sardar Bahadur Maharaj Jagat was the sucessor at Beas to Baba Sawan Singh. Kirpal states he was instructed to start a mission in Delhi and Baba Somanath likewise in Mumbai. That is why I think it unhelpful to list them all as successors without mentioning where they operated (or when as in the case with the late arrival of Ishwar Puri).--Mystichumwipe (talk) 07:06, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

sorry, i can't agree with you. Sardar Bahadur Maharaj Jagat Singh was ONE of his successors, the one of Beas. There are other successors, and their importance can't be less than Sardar Bahadur Maharaj Jagat Singh. So let's point out the truth of the things.

Huh? But why can't you agree with me? It seems we ARE in agreement. For that is exactly what I wrote: viz. Sardar Bahadur Maharaj Jagat was the successor at Beas.

Do you agree he was the only one authorised as a successor at Beas by numrous registered wills? Let's avoid taking this into murky and controversial history? Its a biography of someone not a 'successorship claims' page--Mystichumwipe (talk) 14:21, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Now i think that can be better if we DON'T put one or 100 successors in the small box and we explain things as they are, during the article. I try now to fix in this way. --GurDass (talk) 11:11, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What was wrong with writing where the missions were started? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mystichumwipe (talk • contribs) 14:24, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

they are all successors, just not in beas. --GurDass (talk) 20:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

it seems ok now, don't you agree? --GurDass (talk) 20:23, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. Firstly you attempted a grammatical correction but instead inserted an error. I.e. you changed a perfectly good sentence that had proper English to something that was not grammatically correct. I assume that is because you are Italian and English is not your mother tongue.

Secondly to add material without a referenced citation is an infringement of wiki policy (see original research). The article had few references before, so one benefit of our discussion is that now it has some more :-).

Thirdly, to be added, information should cite reliable secondary sources with references (see WP:IRS). So you need to provide a reference that is unbiased and is not from a primary source [1] that cites that all of the people named who set up separate missions elsewhere in India were given "instructions" as you wrote. Otherwise without that what you are doing is regarded as adding 'original research' WP:OR.

Finally, "all successors" is the can of worms that I would like to avoid as this is a biography page. Regarding instructions: Kirpal started a separate mission almost immediately. Somanath did not start initiating until the 1950's. Ishwar Puri did not start his mission until 2010-ish! To lump all these people together as 'successors' with equal claim to verbal instructions would not be accurate or informative to the reader of this article. Lets keep to the recorded facts as exist in reputable independently published sources and not turn this page into a succession-dispute-page which seeks to raise any particular 'mission'. --Mystichumwipe (talk) 07:59, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gurdas. You latest edit STILL implies that all of the people named who set up separate missions elsewhere in India were "obeying instructions". As I have already written (above) you need to cite a reliable secondary source that states that Pritam das, Somanath, Shah Mastana, Puri, etc. claim to have had verbal "instructions", as you wrote. Regarding Kirpal Singh, the links you provide were not appropriate (see WP:OR and WP:IRS). And even if they were, citations referencing a Kirpal Singh affiliated website do not adress this difficulty regarding the others in the list. And can you explain why you feel it necessary to detail the "instructions" aspect of succession at all? This is a page about Baba Sawan Singh. So details about Kirpal Singh and about Kirpal's mission and any "instructions" he received should go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirpal_Singh. Is there anything in the article that you think is inaccurate or misleading? I have already taken out the successor section in the BLP box to meet your wishes. Can you not compromise a bit here.--Mystichumwipe (talk) 10:05, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other names[edit]

Nearly all Sant Mat masters are known with other names than their given name. That these names are titles is a mute point. For example Seth Shiv Dayal Singh Ji is more commonly known and referred to as Soami Ji , Shiv Brat Lal Verman is more commonly known and referred to as as Data Dayal, etc., etc. Some, but not all have titles, that is correct. The point at issue here is whether they are commonly known or referred to by any other name. In this case, most people in English DO refer to Baba Sawan Singh by saying "the Great master". E.g 'the Great master said this, the Great master was the father of', etc., etc. People do also say Huzur Maharaj Sawan Singh. And THAT is a title. But as it is one that also applies to other RS gurus, such as Saligram, Maharaj Charan Singh and others, we wouldn't put that in the section 'other names' as it is not exclusively applied to them. I hope you will agree that only one Guru in the RS lineage is commonly - and almost exclusively - refered to with the name in English of The Great master. Two are known in Indian language as Bade Maharaji. Please discuss as previously requested. Let's not edit war about this. Instead can you explain what is your problem with including these 'other names' in the info box? Especially when the very first sentence of the article confirms that this information is correct?--Mystichumwipe (talk) 13:00, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

do you have a source to claim that "great master" is some name only used to Baba Sawan Singh and nobody else? --GurDass (talk) 14:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No and we don't need one as "only" is not really the main issue. I can provide many sources that "great master" is the name commonly used within the RS Beas derived sangats for Baba Sawan Singh in the English language. Q1. Do you doubt this to be true? Q2. can you explain what is your problem with including these 'other names' in the info box? Q3. do you have a problem with the very first sentence of the article which also states this information?--Mystichumwipe (talk) 08:52, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

i don't have any problem, it just don't seems to me a "name" in strict sense of the word... let's do as you want --GurDass (talk) 11:39, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it is not so much a name. But it is an alias used. And that is exactly what the part of the infobox is about: any aliases. The following book titles demonstrate that this was the alias/other name used to refer to him in English: "Glimpses of the Great Master", "Call of the Great master". So this isn't so much what I want, but is just keeping this wiki page in accordance with the article itself, with the existing RS literature, and the actuality of usage both in his lifetime and still now.--Mystichumwipe (talk) 08:59, 14 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Baba Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj date of birth.[edit]

Baba Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj was born 20 July 1858, not a 27 July 1858. Please replace 27 July 1858 with 20 July 1858. 2409:4055:30C:76AF:3903:4B8D:CD49:3045 (talk) 10:46, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You need to provide evidence in the form of reliable source to request a change of date of birth. Venkat TL (talk) 15:58, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Listen the Sant Samagam Hindi audio book on RSSB official YouTube channel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4055:2E0B:7C60:315D:CB09:9A5A:790 (talk) 16:32, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]