Talk:Sardinian phonology

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Italy

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IPA[edit]

@The Nicodene: I’ve seen the source you linked, but I am honestly puzzled on what those [ˈkɔˑmˑma] and [ˈkaˑnˑna] transcriptions translate to: are there really two separate realizations of the nasals (like in Polish Anna [ˈan.na]^ⓘ) or is that nothing that we cannot change to a clearer [ˈkɔˑmːa] and [ˈkaˑnːa]? What is your view on this? 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 08:18, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A similar, albeit apparently stronger, phenomenon of coda consonant lengthening in stressed syllables occurs in Italian, as in notte [ˈnɔtː.te] or the other examples there (Mura & Virdis 2015: 75). The element forming the coda of the first syllable is longer than the onset of the second syllable. The difference is easier to hear when the two consonants are different, as in bianco [ˈbjaŋː.ko]. The Nicodene (talk) 09:07, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Nicodene: I am talking about the transcription. If we write it down this way, it almost seems like the lengthened coda does not "flow" into the following onset but is pronounced separately, like in the sound file that I used – which definitely does not occur in Italian, and if that’s the same source I don’t think it does in Sardinian either. Doesn’t a transcription like [ˈkɔˑmːa] or even [ˈkɔˑmːˑa] (without a length mark followed by a second identical consonant symbol) more closely suggest the actual pronunciation? 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 09:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is not the case for Sardinian either, and that is not what the transcription is saying. The transcription for the Polish word above seems off to me: there is a vowel sound after the first [n], even if it is not a prominent one. Perhaps [ə̆]. The Nicodene (talk) 09:34, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It still seems confusing to use two consonant symbols and a length mark in the middle to transcribe one long sound. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 09:42, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The equivalent of [mˑm] with only one character would be [mːˑ]. In theory that could be used instead. Still, the segment is spread over two syllables, which is why two characters are used. That is why it is standard practice in, for instance, Italian transcriptions to write /ˈfatto/ or /ˈfat.to/.

I agree that is visually 'complicated'. Perhaps we could instead use a Sardinian example with two different consonants? For instance [ˈkuˑsˑta]. The Nicodene (talk) 10:07, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced the transcription with the double length mark, the two syllables can be indicated in the phonemic one. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 10:16, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That should work. I don't think we need to have both comma and custa though. The Nicodene (talk) 10:27, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to remove ~~one~~ custa, or to reorganize the sentence. 〜イヴァンスクルージ九十八［IvanScrooge98］（会話） 10:29, 20 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]