Talk:Sally Sweetland

Death

IMDb gives a date of February 8th, 2015 for her death, but I've found no other record of that online. She was definitely still alive as of September 2014 as there's news articles about her 103rd birthday.

Anyone know if she's still alive? BillyH 15:21, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi Billy. I've noticed this as well. Several Facebook pages noted her death at the time. Unfortunately none of them are official and cannot be used as sources. Furthermore, I cannot find ANYTHING in the Social Security Index to confirm this, which complicates things further. Her maiden name was Mueller. Searched under this... still nothing. I'm genuinely shocked the press in California didn't pick it up. Perhaps somebody could contact her local press (which did several features on her prior to 2015) and ask if they could run a retrospective look at her life? Other than that I don't know what to suggest. --Jkaharper (talk) 16:16, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to know, too. I'm surprised there are no obituaries anywhere - she was a notable enough figure. She was part of a UK number one hit! --TrottieTrue (talk) 17:59, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Update: I contacted the residential community where she lived, and they passed on my query to her family. Steve Sweetland (some relation I'm sure) promptly replied, telling me "Sally Sweetland passed away Feb. 8, 2015 at age 103". So it is sadly (although at that age to be expected) true. I too am shocked that the press didn't pick it up, and that there are no published obituaries anywhere, unless they aren't online. She was a significant enough star, and her age alone qualifies her for some press coverage. I didn't receive a reply from the Record Gazette (who published the article on her 103rd birthday), but maybe I'll suggest the retrospective referred to above. Otherwise, there is no verifiable source for this information. It's sad I found out about this so late, because it's past the point a newspaper would publish an obituary. It's very odd to my mind that even a minor star of the 40s and 50s with a Wikipedia entry dies and it doesn't get reported outside social media. Coincidental also that I found out a day after the previous comment. I was prompted by the recent death of Jimmy Young to find out which other artists who topped the UK record charts in the early 1950s were still alive. Sally was one such performer, who I had only recently discovered was still alive. --TrottieTrue (talk) 01:34, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your efforts, User:TrottieTrue. I think this is a case where strict Wikipedia rules should be set aside and a primary source should be accepted. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:54, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Glad to help - I wanted to confirm the information for definite. I agree that this should now be added to the Wikipedia page, rather than letting users like me think she is still alive aged 105. I have suggested the Record Gazette write something about her. It's strange they didn't at the time, unless her family specifically requested it. I guess if a notable name is cut off from the media, and their relatives don't inform them, these things can slip through the net. - TrottieTrue (talk) 15:57, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but no. WP:BLP is very clear about this kind of thing: material about the death of a living person must be verifiable and we have no way of verifying whether what is written above is true. I assume good faith and I don't doubt this is true, but verifiabilty trumps the truth in this case; it certainly cannot be a unilateral decision. Two options might be: 1) Get a consensus at WP:BLPN or 2) Submit your correspondence to WP:OTRS and, if they accept it, they'll come in a change the article themselves. Canadian Paul 12:34, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure why IMDb cannot be used as a source for her death date. It would seem that it is no less reliable than Sports Reference, which is regularly used for biographies of Olympians. Is there a reason why IMDb is less reliable? EternalNomad (talk) 01:03, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Yes. IMDb has limited editorial oversight, a plethora of user-contributed content, and has had content inserted with the deliberate intention of hoaxing Wikipedia (these also went much further than IMDb, including the publication of false obituaries, see the histories of Loni Nest, Pola Illéry, and Louise Henry (actress) if you really want to go down the rabbit hole). It is suggested in this essay the Wikipedia not use IMDb for biographical information. The data at SR, on the other hand, is vetted by Bill Mallon, and internationally recognized Olympic historian, alongside a limited number of field experts. While this does not make it immune from mistakes, it meets the requirements of a reliable source. Canadian Paul 14:28, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Following your suggestion, I have forwarded my correspondence from Sally's son, Steve, to the Wikipedia Volunteer Response Team. When I raised the subject of Sally's death not being reported in the press, this was what Steve wrote back: We honored my mother’s wish to be allowed to pass on anonymously. I am not aware of an official obituary in any publication. I am assuming that a definitive statement of her passing coming from me, her son, is sufficient proof of her demise. So there we have it. As the news of her death was posted on Facebook (where I wonder? A group for fans of old film stars? Or for Banning?) and the IMDb, she clearly didn't pass on completely anonymously, yet the information was probably never on the radar of anyone in the press or media. It's a shame I didn't know, because I'd have tried sending the story to a few British newspapers, but after a year it's a bit late. It would be nice if someone published a full obituary or a retrospective feature on her life, but I'm struggling to think who might do that. It is puzzling she cannot be found on the Social Security Index. Her husband Lee can though. TrottieTrue (talk) 00:53, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi TrottieTrue, I may be wrong but I believe you'll be able to find her in the SSDI once it is updated to allow 2015 passings to be available to the wider public in January 2017. If so, that would suffice as a credible source. Until then we'll just have to wait. I'm confident we'll have this resolved shortly. A credible source normally springs up eventually. I'm very puzzled as to why Sweetland didn't want her death noticed, particularly given how she entertained press interviews and photography shoots in the years leading up to her death. Bizarre! Thanks --Jkaharper (talk) 02:02, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jkaharper, thank you for enlightening me there. That would explain why she cannot be found in that database yet. It was you who previously noted being unable to find Sally in the SSDI. If no one from the Wikipedia team wishes to make the edit, then come next month we could verify the death. It's interesting to read about the silent film stars Canadian Paul mentioned whose deaths weren't verified until years later. I agree with your puzzlement. It just goes to show that if a minor star or performer requests such a preference, their death can go unreported. But given there is some interest in Sally, all it has done is provide detective work for us. TrottieTrue (talk) 18:38, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

E-mail from family forwarded to OTRS (Ticket 2016121510000491), just the relevant bit copied - "Sally Sweetland passed away Feb. 8, 2015 at age 103". Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 01:03, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Could this now be a source for updating the article? I'm not sure the Social Security Death Index update is going to include Sally's death for another year: "Free online search of the SSDI, a name index to deaths recorded by the Social Security Administration beginning in 1962. Free, unrestricted search. This database was last updated on 28 February 2014, just prior to restrictions enacted in March 2014 which require that newly reported deaths will not be made available in the public version of the Social Security Death Index for three years after the individual's death." http://genealogy.about.com/od/free_genealogy/a/ssdi.htm So we could be waiting until next year for them to confirm Sally's death. TrottieTrue (talk) 02:14, 5 February 2017 (UTC)

I missed this notice on the talk page (I thought it would be updated in the article once confirmed), but yes, the information can now be added. In fact, I'll add it myself. Thank you very much for your patience, understanding, and contribution to improving Wikipedia! Canadian Paul 23:39, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much. A few YouTube users have commented on videos of Sally's performances that she is "alive" (prior to this page being updated), but when one was questioned on his source, he just noted his condolences. I'm fairly sure that anyone on YouTube who categorically stated Sally is alive had simply taken this article as gospel, and doesn't have hitherto unknown information on her. I've forwarded another email from Sally's son Steve to the OTRS team, where he confirmed her place of death to me - this information seems to be basic for a biography article, so I asked him for it. I've added this to the article in lieu of the forwarded email. TrottieTrue (talk) 02:17, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Ticket:2017022210001118 She died at home with family in attendance at her residence in Banning, CA. Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 00:16, 23 February 2017 (UTC)