Talk:Robert King, 2nd Earl of Kingston

"Seduced his daughter" and list of children

I changed the seduced his daughter bit [1] since it IMO seems to convey a outdated mindset of a woman's ability to decide who she wanted to be in a relationship with and at the very least since it says one party seduced the other, suggests something we honestly just don't know and will probably never know. It's used here [2] a source I didn't add because I don't know if it's an RS although Myles Dungan makes me think it could be. But it's not used in the source I did add. The source I did add doesn't actually mention relationship either but IMO it's a resonable inference from what it does say:

The accused had a town house in London by the Thames. One day his daughter Mary disappeared, leaving a note saying she intended to drown herself in the river. She had shown no previous sign of anxiety and Lord Kingsborough was convinced she was still alive. He advertised extensively for his daughter. No one appeared more concerned than Colonel Fitzgerald, who had been brought up as one of the family. A woman responded to the advertisement, saying that a girl answering Mary's description had taken lodgings with her in London. When the woman saw Colonel Fitzgerald she said 'Why, that's the man who brought the young lady to us'. Fitzgerald turned and ran. He was later challenged to a duel by Kingsborough's son, and, although no one would act as his second, a meeting took place at which six shots were fired at a distance of ten paces without injury on either side. The Kingsboroughs took their daughter back to County Cork. Colonel Fitzgerald, who was infatuated with Mary, soon followed. Kingsborough and his son heard a rumour that a stranger, acting somewhat mysteriously, was staying at a local inn. They went to his room in the inn but found the door locked. They forced the door. Colonel Fitzgerald tried to defend himself, or at least so it was claimed by Kingsborough, who shot and killed him, in order, so he also claimed, to defend his son.

Additional one point that confuses me is the age of Mary. Our article says she "died young" without giving a DOB or DOD. This makes me think she died in early child hood, or at least before ~12. But the above calls the daughter Mary and in any case it also lists no other daughters besides Diana King who also died young and Margaret King who's article says it was her younger sister. Also all 3 children who died young are listed before those who's DOBs are listed. But those who's DOBs are listed go in other of birth which is what I'd expect.

Searching more I did find [3] which confirms it's Mary. But also mentions a Caroline and interesting mentions 12 children not 9. It also mentions a pregnancy but also re-affirms my view we should avoid terms like "seduced" which seems to more reflect the mentality of the times and particularly in the case of a priviliged father against a man of contentious heritage who was related in some fashion anyway. (This source also mentions what the Myles Dungan source did, namely rumours that Henry FitzGerald was actually Caroline's illegitimate half-brother so Mary's uncle. It also mentions as does the Dungan source and the above that he was brought up by as part of the family. Interesting is also seems that Henry FitzGerald was married and even already had a child.) It gives the age of Mary as 8 in 1786 or 1787 and 16 in 1797/the time of the alleged murder (yes these ages don't seem to quite add up).

In light of this it's possible that the Mary King who was with the Colonel is another child. I don't know if necronyms of deceased siblings is likely for an Irish peer of the time. (Although it's possible it wasn't really thought of as a necronym of the deceased sibling, but originating however the first name originated, since I believe in some cases children who died very young weren't really considered.) And I guess it's possible the pregnancy made the Mary King who was with the Colonel disappear from some genealogies. But this doesn't explain the other 2 possible missing children one of whom I guess is Caroline.

P.S. The Mary Wollstonecraft source suggests the Jurist House of Lords source got at least one thing wrong namely the timing, it seems the alleged murder happened after not before Robert King became the Earl.

P.P.S. Interestingly, it seems Richard Fitzgerald (died 1776) was also killed albeit in a duel and probably with Robert's father/his daughter's father-in-law. I've corrected what appear to be some mistakes in that article, but it still confuses me how Henry FitzGerald is related.

P.P.P.S. R. D. King-Harman, The Kings, Earls of Kingston, (Cambridge: Privately printed, 1959), p. 73 which is a source used in the Mary Wollstonecraft source would probably be a good source to flesh out issue/children.

Nil Einne (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2017 (UTC)