Talk:Robert Frost/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

2nd picture caption

On the page to which the second picture links, it is said that the portrait was not taken at JFK's inaugration. Indeed, Frost would be looking very young for his age if it was. Rather, the photo was used to illustrate an article on his reading at the inaugration. The picture was taken 1910-1920. Cedric du Zob 13:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Link

I removed the broken link at the bottom. I initially was fixing a typo in the title for the link then discovered that it was not there, anyway. If you have any ideas for something to replace it please do so, I'm not an expert on Frost. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.140.39.182 (talk) 04:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Note: this comment refers to this edit. --_└ ^Smith120bh/_TALK ^┐ 05:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

External Links: TDX?

According to the wiki article about the Theta Delta Chi fraternity, Frost was a member of the fraternity. However, this is not even mentioned in this article. Therefore, I find it useless to have a link to the fraternity website in the external links. I feel it is a shameless plug. I have removed it, but if anyone thinks it belongs, feel free to revert.--E Man Speaks 22:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Swedenborgian church

"His mother joined the Swedenborgian church and had him baptized and circumcised in it..." indeed! She may well have attended to the latter but it has nothing to do with Swedenborgian church doctrine and, pending some documentation of this assertion I have deleted it. Masalai 06:11, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Lost Inauguration Poem

Recently it was found that at Kennedy's inauguration Frost was not able to read the poem he had written for the occasion and was forced to recite a different poem from memory. The poem was thought to be lost until it was found in an unmarked envelope by the Kennedy Library. This is signifigant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.87.231 (talk) 22:15, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Didn't know about it, so I googled up the Washington Post clip. I think you're right, this is relevant and encyclopedic (and historical). Under fair use, I quoted both "The Gift Outright" and "Dedication", though I am not wed to the specific quotes taken from the latter poem nor what I said about either of them (NPOV/original research concerns). Any Frost scholars want to weigh in here? Expand? He's a good and important poet, and I'd like the entry to begin talking about his meter, his cadences, his subjects and their measure and scale — quoting these two poems is as good a start as any. Sandover 19:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

"School"

What school/movement of poetry did he belong to? Numbercattle — Preceding unsigned comment added by Numbercattle (talk • contribs) 13:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Missing info

This article misses the fact that Frost was brought to the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor and spent a significant amount of time there see: http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/9900/May08_00/12.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.213.165.37 (talk) 05:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

the outsiders

Robert Frost had a poem quoted in the book "The Outsiders" and when jonny dies he finds the meaning of the poem ........... it means dont waist ur child hood its over befor u know it dont try to grow up so fast — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.209.79 (talk) 15:11, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

• The poem was Nothing Gold Can Stay.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 20:38, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Protection/Semi-Protection

The page probably shouldn't be fully protected, since virtually all of the recent vandalism was from a small number of IP addresses, one or more of which is currently blocked. Semi-protection would probably be better in the future, although for now it is unimportant, since the protection expires in <3 hours.--Grand Slam 7 | Talk 20:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Middle name

I've included Robert Frost's middle name (Lee) in the first sentence of the article. 208.178.18.185 14:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Quote

Does anyone know if the quote about liberals is for real? I've seen it attributed to Frost in a lot of places, but is this a real attribution or a fake? john k 20:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It's a tricky situation. I've just modified the article based on the fact that I couldn't find the quote as it was rendered in the article anywhere except mirrors of this article, and I had an RS which gave it in a different form. However, after I'd made the change, I found a New York Times article ("Robert Frost Returns With Word of Khrushchev; Met Premier Saturday" by Philip Benjamin. New York Times, Sept 10, 1962. pg. 8) where yet a different wording is given:

"Khrushchev said he feared for us modern liberals," the 88-year-old poet said. "He said we were too liberal to fight. ...

So, two RSes with different wordings. I must admit I'm not sure how the discrepancy should be handled. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

The Road Less Traveled vs. The Road Not Taken

Whilst attempting to write a paper about Robert Frost, I was searching Google for Frost's poem, "The Road Less Traveled". If searched, the poem comes up under either "The Road Less Traveled" or "The Road Not Taken". I have seen the poem under both names, but does anyone know if this is just a mistake, and if so, which name is true? Thanks for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MaytrixInk (talk • contribs) 12:15, April 26, 2007

Off topic, but The Road Not Taken is the name of the poem, "The Road Less Traveled" is one of the lines of the poem. SmileToday☺(talk to me , My edits) 19:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this is "off topic" as you say, it's a general question regarding poetry by Robert Frost. Off topic would've been asking about similar poetry. I am fully aware that it is a line in the poem, but when looking for the poem in a library, it was also listed under both names. -MaytrixInk —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 136.150.200.99 (talk) 14:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC).

Ambiguous pronoun

"His father was a former teacher turned newspaper man, a hard drinker, a gambler, a harsh disciplinarian; he had a passion for politics, and dabbled in them, for as long as his health allowed."

Is ambiguous as to who "he" is. It should probably be clarified, but I'm not 100% sure which the correct is. 69.120.89.71 13:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I think that it is ambiguous. It is assumed that the "he" in the sentence is the aforementioned father. Good question, though. -MaytrixInk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.246.144.52 (talk) 19:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Popular Culture

Does anyone else disagree with the complete removal of the Popular Culture section from this article on 9-7-07? The removal was done unilaterally and without ANY discussion. Personally, I find it interesting to see how Frost is still relevant in pop culture today and disagree with the remover's finding that the information was "trivial." Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.19.18 (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The removal without discussion probably was a bit hasty. Nonetheless, the section did seem a bit non-encyclopedic. I think the same information could have been worked into a more encyclopedic form that would satisfy both the editor and those who disagree. Please remember to sign your name when making a comment on a talk page as it makes the discussion easier to follow. VirginiaProp 17:23, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Religion

What religion was Frost Ohemgee (talk) 06:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Although his relatives came from Unitarian and Universalist backgrounds he was not particularly religious. See also here. Dr.K. (talk) 04:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Should that get more of a mention? Maybe just a line somewhere.. Ohemgee (talk) 06:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how it could fit in. Normally religion is not used just as a fact. Only if it somehow influenced his work or had some other significant impact. If you can find some noteworthy connection to religion you could try to edit it in. Dr.K. (talk) 06:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm writing a short paper for class on "Stopping by woods on a snowy evening" and there is a religious interpretation of it I've seen. So I was wondering what his religion was, to see if it was at all plausible that he intended or recognized that reading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ohemgee (talk • contribs) 06:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I see. I'm not sure how much his formal religious background influenced his work but there was some religious component in that poem and it is analyzed here. I hope this helps. Good luck. Dr.K. (talk) 06:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

1934?

Did his ancestors really sail to America in 1934 before Frost was born in 1874? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.196.70 (talk) 22:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Great point. It was 1634. I checked the history of the article. Please go ahead and change it since you saw it first. Thanks. --Dr.K. (talk) 23:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

You ought to change it as I wouldn't have a clue as to how to do so. I'm only 16. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.196.70 (talk) 19:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for reporting the error. Sciurinæ (talk) 19:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

San Francisco Evening Crap

Says his father was an editor. This seems like an awfully strange name for a newspaper. Couldn't find anything on the web about it's existence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omarcheeseboro (talk • contribs) 18:53, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

It was the Bulletin. I'm going to check history to find the vandal. Meanwhile I'll change it. Thanks for pointing it out. Dr.K. (talk) 20:02, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

It happened here. I corrected the rest of the info as well. Thanks again. Dr.K. (talk) 20:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Home in VT ransacked

Can someone determine if this info has a place in an article: http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/books/12/31/robertfrostsite.vandals.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview Lostwars —Preceding comment was added at 17:44, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

hello I don't think this does have a place in this article, as I don't think it adds anything to the actual story of Robert Frost, so I 've removed the section. Celestethepirate (talk) 01:04, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Can any 1 help me?

I need some help with a project. Can any of you help me find where I can start? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciscokid21 (talk • contribs) 20:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Can any one listen? (look up)

I would really appreciate it if some one helped. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ciscokid21 (talk • contribs) 20:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd recommend asking your teacher to clarify what a good project might involve, and asking your school librarian (if your school has a librarian) or your town librarian (if your town has a library) about how to get the information you need based on what your teacher is looking for.

65.213.77.129 (talk) 16:11, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Re-Organisaton and major edit.

I am planning to do a major edit to this article. It leaves some facts out and could use a huge over-haul. If anyone has any comments / criticisims please post here. (this may involve re-writing parts of the article) Editing will commence this weekend. Flying Canuck 00:32, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I have a mojor [sic] editing problem -- the entire biography is in reference Wallace Stevens and not Frost. 5 March 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by InfantInquisitor (talk • contribs) 02:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

robert frost

he was a great writer, father, husband ,and a great teacher ull have to reserch to find out more —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.107.203 (talk) 19:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Interrupting a lecture on "The road not taken"?

Back in High School, my Drama teacher told about a lecture where the professor described Robert Frost's thought-process as he wrote The Road Not Taken. Then someone in the back asked a question the professor couldn't answer, and the questioner turned out to be Robert Frost, who got up and told the real story while the professor squirmed.

First, is this story true? And if so, what are the details? Or is the story basically correct but about a different writer and work? Or is it just an urban myth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.1.202 (talk) 18:41, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

son's suicide missing and other details

There is no mention in the article of Elinor's death in 1938. there is no mention of two daughters who suffered mental breakdowns or his son Carol, a poet who committ suicide in 1940, and I think he had one other child who also died, out of the six.

This absence of information is criminal. considering its relevance to his work (directive, for example) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.137.3 (talk) 05:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Fortunately, no one has criminalized absence of information. Also happily, it's easily rectified. There does not seem to be a second daughter with a severe mental breakdown. Here's the raw material with which to do it:

Name:	Robert Frost
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Birth:	26 March 1874	San Francisco, California
Death:	29 January 1963	Boston, Massachusetts
Burial:	31 January 1963	Old Bennington, Vermont
Father:	William Prescott Frost Jr. (1850-1885)
Mother:	Isabelle Moodie (1844-1900)
Marriage:	19 December 1895	Lawrence, Massachusetts
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Spouse:	Elinor Marian White
—————————————————————————————————————————————
Birth:	25 October 1873	Lawrence, Massachusetts
Death:	20 March 1938	Gainsville, Florida
Burial:		Old Bennington, Vermont
Father:	Rev. Edwin White (~1833-)
Mother:	Henrietta A. (~1845-)
—————————————————————————————————————————————

Children
—————————————————————————————————————————————
1 M:	Elliot Frost
Birth:	25 September 1896	
Death:	8 July 1900	(cholera)
—————————————————————————————————————————————
2 F:	Lesley Frost
Birth:	28 April 1899	Lawrence, Massachusetts
Death:	9 July 1983	Fairfield, Connecticut
Spouse:	James Dwight Francis
Marriage:	3 September 1928	New York
Divorce: 1 November 1932 Pittsfield, Massachusetts
Spouse:	Joseph W. Ballantine 
(head of the State Department's Far Eastern Division under Secretary of State Cordell Hull)
Marriage:	23 August 1952	Fairfield, Connecticut
—————————————————————————————————————————————
3 M:	Carol Frost
Birth:	27 May 1902	
Death:	9 October 1940	Shaftsbury, Bennington, Vermont (suicide)
Spouse:	Lilian LaBatt
Marriage:	1923	
—————————————————————————————————————————————
4 F:	Irma Frost (committed to a mental hospital following divorce)
Birth:	1903	
Spouse:	John Cone
—————————————————————————————————————————————
5 F:	Marjorie Frost
Birth:	28 March 1905	
Death:	2 May 1934	(puerperal fever following the birth of her first child)
Spouse:	Willard Edward Fraser (he was later mayor of Billings, 
Montana for six terms)
Marriage:	1933	Billings, Montana
—————————————————————————————————————————————
6 F:	Elinor Bettina Frost
Birth:	18 June 1907	
Death:	21 June 1907	

- Nunh-huh 17:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that as well. See below about the Writer's almanac. Ginbot (talk) 17:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Writer's Almanac

Last Wednesday 26 March, 2008, the Writer's Almanac (American Public Media - NPR) mentioned Frost's really rough life. It's worth the read, and I didn't see any of that in the article. The marriage is mentioned, but I am refering to the death's in his immediate family. Robert Frost's mention on the Writer's Almanac - Ginbot (talk) 17:38, 31 March 2008 (UTC) I just noticed some else has mentioned this above, didn't catch that at first. But, the Almanac link is yet another source. Ginbot (talk) 17:41, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect analysis/citation

In the "Anthology of Modern American Poetry", published by Oxford University Press, Frost's poems are criticized due to their frequently pessimistic and menacing undertones.[4]

This is incorrect. The original purpose of this note was to point out the fact that Frost's poems have a misleading reputation in popular culture of being homey, rural, and filled with an endearing sort of agrarian wisdom. In reality, this perceived softness is a false face that most of his poems wear to disguise features that are ultimately untrustworthy, lonely, and threatening. This is not a criticism (nor does the source criticize; indeed, it bemoans the lack of recognition of this behavior); Frost's greater meanings flow from this fluid, chameleon nature.

The page is currently protected. Can someone please update the page with the correct information (I'm not sure where to put it...we really need a "Style" section...). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.173.89.169 (talk) 21:53, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments. I tried to modify the section to reflect your intent. Is it ok now? Thanks. Dr.K. (talk) 22:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Bias

Greatest American poet of the 20th century? How about William Carlos Williams, Ezra Pound, T. S. Eliot (at least half American) etc. Debatable and un-NPOV, in my view, for a first line. Started as a stub; time to change it. Mandel - May 11, 2004.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandel (talk • contribs) 20:07, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Well, it does say "in the opinion of many". It should even be easy to find some poll, or other source to support it, I would guess. Rmhermen 20:16, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Not as easy as I guessed - most sites either presume it (like the curriculum sites where students must answer "Why was Frost America's most popular poet?") or use words like "perhaps the most popular". The one poll I found for "most popular poet" had Langston Hughes as the winner. Rmhermen 21:01, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Popular isn't the same as greatest. I've no arguments with him as America's most popular poet (easily proven, and I think a good case), but greatest? Mandel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandel (talk • contribs) 21:54, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

If he's easily proven most popular, then I think we can assume that "in the opinion of many" he is "greatest" is reasonably NPOV. Change it to "in the opinion of some" if you want, but I think that's about as much trouble as the issue is worth. --Chinasaur 01:33, May 12, 2004 (UTC)

These two terms are simply not interchangable. BTW I do not dislike Frost; I'm just trying to be accurate here. But being the most popular and being the greatest are simply not the same; and if neither proven should not be put on record. I may not like Michael Jordan, but I can grudgingly admit he is the greatest basketballer who ever lived; ditto for Maradona.

A case in point is raised in the recent American Idol. One of the finest singers got voted off, causing an uproar. One of the judges said something to the effect that: "America, choose the best singer. This is *not* a popularity contest." "Greatest" denotes a critical evaluation and comparison of the poet's intrinsic worth with others, not just a mere liking. For an encyclopedia like Wikipedia you simply can't afford to be so nonchalant. People read the first para to get an idea of the subject and if so, they may go off with a mistaken idea that Frost is regarded by academics as the greatest poet. Mandel - May 12, 2004. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandel (talk • contribs) 10:14, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't say that "Frost is regarded by academics as the greatest poet." It says that he is considered 'by many Americans [to be] the greatest poet.'" Maybe you should insert a sentence about what academics think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goethean (talk • contribs) 15:09, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

Fine. But is it true he's regarded as the greatest poet by many or most lay Americans? I think most Americans who like Frost doesn't even have a strong opinion on who's the greatest 20th century poet. Not that there's anything wrong in that.

Doing a Google search: "greatest American poet" and "20th century" gives variously Eliot, Hart Crane, Frost, Wallace Stevens, Ezra Pound. Mandel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mandel (talk • contribs) 15:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

I think that by saying that "I think most Americans who like Frost doesn't even have a strong opinion..." etc, you are categorizing the American people into a lumped group of illiterate uneducated apes, while you can't even use the correct word in a sentence. "Doesn't" really doesn't fit there. And most American's know why they like a certain poet, don't discriminate because you think your level of intelligence is higher. The basis of this argument is not whether the American people are qualified to vote for their favorite poet. One does not need to be a professor of literature to know why a poem speaks to them. Please stop making assumptions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MaytrixInk (talk • contribs) 16:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

One could easily say it's just as biased to prefer Ezra Pound or WCW or Eliot. The truth is-- numerous poets have been called the 'greatest poet of the 20th century' depending on who it is that feels that way.

There is no offical board that decides who the 'greatest poet is'.

The closest thing might be the in some ways amorphous 'academic world', which tends, however, not to be politically amorphous-- and which, for it's own self-serving reasons, will 'canonize' certain writers over others (politics poisoning art more than it's versa).

71.208.229.216 12:16, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

'I think that by saying that "I think most Americans who like Frost doesn't even have a strong opinion..." etc, you are categorizing the American people into a lumped group of illiterate uneducated apes'

The latter sounds about right.

--78.145.177.192 (talk) 04:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Crafting

Frost worked in his grandfathers mill in vermont till he was 15 it was here he developed his love of poetry as he once said in a very old 1930s interview 'the sound of the mill, i mean it was similar to that of trees' this also leads to the poem he wrote called 'The sound of trees' and 'Birches'

For some reason wikipedia has nothing about his crafting at home in vermont and the area. He used to craft small wooden spoons and played in a washboard band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.24.54 (talk) 18:18, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

"Personal Life" Section

In reading this article, I found it distracting that Irma's committment to the mental hospital is mentioned twice in very close succession. My feeling is that the second time is more out of place, and is also written in a tone that is perhaps too partial? In any case, if other people share the sentiment, maybe something should be done. Tselil (talk) 20:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree, and I've taken out the second mention. More to the point, though, why is this section called "Personal Life"? The whole of the article up to this is about his personal life. Except for the single sentence, "His first book of poetry, A Boy's Will, was published the next year", and the brief reference to the critique in the anthology, there is not a single mention of his poetry in the article beyond the lists that follow this section. How was A Boy's Will received? What was his first critical success? His first commercial success? What collections are considered by critics to be his best? What poems? He "was honored frequently during his lifetime, receiving four Pulitzer Prizes", according to the lead; there's a bare mention of honorary degrees at the end, and the Pulitzer Prizes are relegated to the lists. Should that sort of thing not make up the bulk of an article on a poet? Scolaire (talk) 10:23, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Missing Poem?

"A Peck of Gold" isn't on the list of poems. All of these pages here could be citations or references or whatever. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&fkt=588&fsdt=&q=a+peck+of+gold&aq=f&oq=&aqi= 98.15.214.241 (talk) 20:14, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

The road not taken for young Robert might have been as a California editor rather than a New England poet

what does this sentence mean? It has no meaning where it is right now. also, it says that Frost's father was a "good" teacher, it should be clearer and less opinion orientated.

--DorTheScripter (talk) 16:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

The phrase The road not taken is, no doubt, an allusion to Frost's poem title; that poem being (my estimate) Frost's most well-known work. As for the phrase's meaning here, it —presumably— also alludes to the poem's theme: re the angst of personal choice contingency as destiny that shrouds all human life; including my life, for example —that some events in my life present with me with choice(s) which I must make and, when I do, the contingent choice I make will prove definitive of the my future life. So much for the poem's theme.

Ironically —re this phrasing, placed here— the allusion is incorrect, IMO; in that Frost's theme does not speak to the evils and kindnesses of choices that others make for me. That is, some significant events —and the evil people (a.k.a. people of "benign" neglect) or, merely controlling people, behind those events— present their choices for me; whether it be death; slavery; nurture, or not; wealth, or poverty, of opportunity to thrive and grow; requiring conformity to their values; demeaning my values; etc., etc. Thus, the allusion (of this phrase) is not appropo here, IMO; young Robert is not faced with a personal contingency choice —to stay in San Francisco or move to New England— that will make "all the difference" (see the poem, last stanza). Instead, it is an external contingency choice made by others in his young life, and which will determine the future direction of his life. So much for examining the 'complex social and philosophical themes' in life (see article, first paragraph).

There is another problem with using this, or any, phrase, in an encyclopedic project, i.e., to allude to something not made explicit —which is what allusions do for a living. It is the problem of using 'insider' language, i.e., speaking to those 'in the know' because they are familiar with the phrasing and its source, and they 'get it'. This is not OK for encyclopedic writing, IMO, which has the opposite goal —to be explicit, to use well-understood wording and phrasing to impart new understanding to those who are readers new to the subject. Therefore, I say, make reference, not allusion; be ready to provide citation, source, or reference if there is any doubt that it is needed. So much for my soapboxing!

(N.B., I have edited the subject phrase to give it a reference; and have tagged the "good teacher" phase —for request of source).--Jbeans (talk) 10:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Locked?

Is this article locked from editing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boarder Joe (talk • contribs) 22:23, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

About Robert Frosts life

Robert Frost's life was a tagic one. When he was two his mother left his father due to him being an alcholic. Roberts father sadly never recovered. He died when Robert was just eleven years old. He went and lived with his mother then. He started to appriciate the beauty of the world around him. he attand collegde for a while and began to write. Robertgot rejected in America time and time after again. No one would publish any of hs work so he travelled to England. There is were he first got published. His life at this time was great. He had a wife and children. He bought then a farm to life in and spent many hours playing with the children when they were young. Unfortunatly Robert's life then began to fall apart. Robert's wife Elinor dided of heart failure. Robert's daughters mind started to deteriorate and his on Caroll took his own life. In the end he had burried four if his children and his wife. Decpite all that hapened in his life Frost never stopped seeing the beauty of life and the world around him. He blessed us all by describibg this in his writing. Sadly Robert Frost died of pneumonia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.44.83.175 (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Add An Image

I've uploaded to Wikimedia Commons an image I took of a handwritten poem of his I found in a library and was given permission to photograph. I think it might be a nice addition to the page.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:RobertFrost_HandrittenPoem_DukeLibraries.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeremyblock (talk • contribs) 05:57, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Robert Frost a bad person?

I've heard from several sources that Robert Frost was a really bad person. This opinion of him is also in several novels and plays that I have read or seen, but those who mention it never go into detail about how he got this reputation. Does anyone know anything about this? I think something about this should be in the article. Academic Challenger 04:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

"A bad person" is a vague description. If we had specifics about what he was supposed to have done that was so bad, that might be legitimate to add, though. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

'Bad person' might be an oversimplification-- I have read (source forgotten) that he was a very difficult person and may have emotionally abused some vunerable individuals in his life.

Eastern Massachusetts, where he grew up after age 11, is also known for having a rather harsh culture-- perhaps his rough New England ways were also taken by some as abusive.

71.208.229.216 12:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I heard Frost was a complete git. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.177.192 (talk) 04:57, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

-MAybe thats why his family was mental? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.242.88.154 (talk) 06:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Or vice versa.

69.171.160.186 (talk) 04:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

"It goes on" quote

I have seen this quote attributed to Robert Frost in many places: "In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on." Does anyone know when/where he said or wrote this? ElTchanggo (talk) 00:46, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

The Question as to whether RF was a "bad" person

In short, he was not, or at any rate neither worse nor better personally than most folk, especially given the terrific stress his family was under from illnesses & mental disease. RF got the reputation for being a "bad person" from the slanderous three-volume biography done by Lawrance Thompson (pub. 1960s-early1970s). Thompson succeeded in creating what has come to be known as "the monster myth." Later books corrected his bias, which was deeply personal in nature, starting with those published by Richard Poirier and William Pritchard in the 1970s, and now by Jay Parini, in the most recent full biography.(See the last chapter of his book, which offers a good summary of controversies over the Thompson biography.) Scholar Donald Sheehy has also written about this in a fine essay called "The Poet as Neurotic: The Official Biography of Robert Frost." American Literature, Vol. 58, No. 3 (Oct., 1986), pp. 393-410. See also Sheehy's "(Re)Figuring Love: Robert Frost in Crisis, 1938-1942." "The New England Quarterly," Vol. 63, No. 2 (Jun., 1990), pp. 179-231.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Compensations (talk • contribs) 12:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

New sections (which are created with == code like this==) go at the bottom. Responses in already existing sections generally don't become new sections. Also, the proper method of signing is using for tildes (~~~~). This places a timestamp in your signature, as well as a link to your talk page and userpage. Ian.thomson (talk) 12:40, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Other poems

Is there a specific reason why some of his early poems are not mentioned? Eg, "The Traitor", "La Noche Triste", "The Flight", "A Dream of Julius Caesar", etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.24.81.210 (talk) 14:56, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah! I agree, they didn't also include Carpe Diem —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.191.243.61 (talk) 20:43, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Selected Works

The selected works section of this article seems to be a mess. Perhaps someone with extensive knowledge of Frost's works could do an overhaul, or if I come up with some extra time, I will. Some have publisher information and dates, others don't. And I know for a fact that many of these poems are part of North of Boston or Mountain Interval and should be tabbed into that section. -AK1591 20:31, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I strongly suggest an author navigation box (which I often do). See Template:Edgar Allan Poe or Template:Charles Dickens for example. If someone undertakes it, you can cut the entire bibliography section and make room for more important encyclopedic information. -Midnightdreary 19:32, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm beginning some extensive work in this regard, making some sense of the bibliographic parts of this entry. From a library catalog point of view, I'm aiming toward divisions between individual poems, collected works, and other works, with links to contents and/or individual wiki entries. There really ought to be some standard for author entries and their works, whether it's the above-named templates or something else.--Gstapp 17:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds great! Let me know if you need any help. --Midnightdreary 00:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

_A Boy's Will_ doesn't appear under his list of published books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.229.28.177 (talk) 01:08, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

_A Boy's Will_ was published in London in March 1913 (The Robert Frost encyclopedia - Page 233 - http://books.google.com/books?id=47NFEPDDBMgC&lpg=PA233&dq=robert%20frost%20a%20boy's%20will%20london&pg=PA233#v=onepage&q=robert%20frost%20a%20boy's%20will%20london&f=false) We need to be able edit the page! It hasn't been touched in a while. I'm not an avid Wikipedia contributor, but it seems to defeat the purpose of Wikipedia if we lock pages for so long! Wcheney (talk) 15:37, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 98.122.40.109, 21 September 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} The mention in the article of the Robert Frost Middle School implies that that is the only school named after him. I attended Kindergarten and First Grade at the Robert Frost School on Hamlet St. in Lawrence, Massachusetts 1961-1963. It was there that I personally met Mr. Frost at the dedication ceremony, he was 87 and I was five. He reminded me a great deal of my great grandfather who was an old Scots New Englander, one year younger. The school has a web page and is in any index of public schools.

98.122.40.109 (talk) 00:07, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

 Done Added Robert L. Frost School. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 02:19, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Robert Frost in New Orleans

Does anyone know if Robert Frost lived in New Orleans? I think Robert Frost lived in New Orleans, as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Findthelesson (talk • contribs) 19:01, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Mismarking on Frost gravestone.

If the birth and death records stated in one of the prior topics states that Elinor Bettina Frost was born on the 18th of June, and then her death was three days later on June 21st, in 1907, why is it that the gravestone states that she was born on the 20th of June, 1907, and that she still died on the 21st of July, 1907. I'm curious -- was there an error in the making of one of the two, and which source was the information sited from when this article was made?

Broken Laurels (talk) 18:21, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

References

Edit request from Kiranbhogadi, 22 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

Can you please link "The Pasture" poem to this content?

Thanks, Kiran Bhogadi

The Pasture

I'm going out to clean the pasture spring;
I'll only stop to rake the leaves away
(And wait to watch the water clear, I may):
I shan't be gone long. -- You come too.

I'm going out to fetch the little calf
That's standing by the mother. It's so young,
It totters when she licks it with her tongue.
I shan't be gone long. -- You come too.

Kiranbhogadi (talk) 03:37, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Please explain why? A) you did not give a reliable source, and B) please see WP:QUOTEFARM.

We'd need some explanation of why it helps to understand the topic. Please elaborate. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  22:13, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Verify Robert Frost Middle School

Can someone verify the Robert Frost Middle School reference (created during his lifetime)? I went to a Robert Frost Middle school, but it was in Rockville, MD and not Fairfax, VA. Here is the link: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/robertfrostms/. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.174.91.134 (talk) 14:59, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Bookgeek20, 16 June 2011

Please add a poem to Robert Frost's list of poems. I noticed that the poem Down the Brook. And Back. was not included on the list of his poems. I was reading "Early Poems by Robert Frost" published by Avenel Books in 1981 which includes the poem mentioned above.

Bookgeek20 (talk) 00:07, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. GaneshBhakt (talk) 07:45, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Czeff, 5 September 2011

Please add this information: when Frost moved to England and met Edward Thomas they grew closer than mere "acquaintances" as the Wiki article implies. Frost wrote: "Edward Thomas was the only brother I ever had." (One source is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/29/robert-frost-edward-thomas-poetry)

Czeff (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I am confused on what you would like to have added to the article. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 12:09, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Marriage and time at Harvard

I have corrected information about Frost's time at Harvard -- originally the entry stated that he had left for family reasons. Actually he left due to illness. Also he was not married at Harvard, he was married in Lawrence, Massachusetts. There is a discrepancy about the exact date with sources listed on Ancestry.com saying it was 28 December 1895 while Frost biographers Thompson and Meyers give the date as 19 December 1895. This needs further verification. Thompson's three volume biography of Frost is still the main source of information about him so it is very surprising that no one contributing to this entry seems to have referred to his extensive biography.OwenBrooke (talk) 11:16, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Added critical response section

I couldn't believe the wikipedia article on a poet as important as Robert Frost would be so skimpy. Tried to beef up the article with a "Critical Response" section. But I would encourage other contributors to add more to the other sections as well to make this article more comprehensive. Frost certainly deserves more (and better).Jpcohen (talk) 20:47, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

List of works

Somehow A Boy's Will (1913) is missing from the list of his works at the end of the article. It is, however, mentioned in passing in the biography section. I'd fix it myself but I don't have the necessary editing privileges with the article locked as it is. 206.208.105.129 (talk) 15:56, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect poem title

In the "Critical Response" section the poem "Neither Out Far Nor In Deep" is mistakenly referred to as "Neither Out Too Far Nor In Too Deep."

Teodorovaldepenas (talk) 03:36, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Added new category for American Inaugural poets

Created a new category for American Inaugural poets. Please add Robert Frost as he was the first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgh71 (talk • contribs) 22:24, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Possible addition to the "Pop Culture" Category

Robert Frost's poem "Two roads in a yellow wood" was satirized on the comic strip Get Fuzzy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.51.5.124 (talk) 00:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC).

In the 1975 film Grey Gardens, Edie quotes the first line of "two roads diverged in a yellow wood" and she struggles to remember additional lines.166.182.3.8 (talk) 14:04, 28 January 2013 (UTC)sthomas

This article (or at least some of it) comes from another website

go to this website: http://www.poemhunter.com/robert-frost/ and see that this is copied Mulliryl000 (talk) 23:25, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Nope. Poem Hunter copy their text from Wikipedia, uncredited, which is slack and unnecessary. See Pablo Neruda and John Keats. I wrote much of the text for those two myself. Span (talk) 23:49, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

New article for poem list

I'm not at all sure that the long poem list belongs at the bottom of the article. I suggest creating a new page just for the poems. It add little by being here. Spanglej (talk) 21:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree that I don't understand the purpose of the long list of poems. Jpcohen (talk) 13:46, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Would you support deleting them? Span (talk) 20:23, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

I would support deleting the majority of them. I suppose that the ones that link to articles could be helpful to have (though they should probably just be listed in the Robert Frost "Works" template). Jpcohen (talk) 01:22, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Individual poems, articles, essays, short stories etc should not be listed in a biog article under 'works' as most writers generate too many of them to list comprehensively and it's not good use of biog article space. We usually list collected poems, novels etc. Individual poems can be detailed and linked within the body of the article. Span (talk) 13:24, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Then I would just delete that section. Jpcohen (talk) 14:11, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I just removed the list of poems per our discussion. Jpcohen (talk) 14:15, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

The Sound of Trees

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.200.74.66 (talk) 13:44, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

References

Edit request on 30 July 2013

I would like to point out that Robert Frost's son Elliot died on July 8, 1900, not 1904 as it is currently stated. 76.20.174.22 (talk) 16:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Corrections are much appreciated, but we really do need to verify them. Rivertorch (talk) 18:35, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request: Please add categories

Could someone please add the category American Poets, so Mr. Frost shows up in the stub index? Found another category: American poet, 19th century birth stubs

Thanks! MacDude72 (talk) 16:05, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

He is already in two American poets categories - and the article isn't a stub. Rmhermen (talk) 17:32, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2014

he lost his virginity when he was at the age of ten

Michaelc500 (talk) 22:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 22:20, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Mistake in Selected Works (Birches)

Birches is listed under "North of Boston" but should be under "Mountain Interval". Ryancook2002 (talk) 14:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Poet Laureate?

Since one of the categories on this page is "Poets Laureate of Vermont", I would think the article itself would say something about that. It doesn't. Could someone who knows something about it add something about that if it's true? Michael Hardy (talk) 03:57, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

 Done. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 04:11, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Another incorrect poem title

Another incorrect title: paragraph 5 of the "Works" section refers to "Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening"; should be "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.5.242.189 (talk) 18:10, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Have made the correction you suggested. Thanks for the notice. Dhtwiki (talk) 01:49, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2015

After it is stated that Robert Frost received the Congressional Gold Medal in 1962, please add: Frost was also awarded the Edward MacDowell Medal for outstanding contribution to the arts by the MacDowell Colony in 1961. 23.30.175.65 (talk) 14:48, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

 Added to "Adult life" section. Thanks, Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 13:17, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2015

Correction, the MacDowell award was in 1962 (this is in reference to the previous editing request) 23.30.175.65 (talk) 14:50, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

Done. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 13:17, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2015

ORIGINAL TEXT As World War I began, Frost returned to America in 1915 and bought a farm in Franconia...

EDITED TEXT In 1915, as World War I began, Frost returned to America, where “A Boy’s Will” had recently been published by Henry Holt, in Frost’s first American edition. Frost bought a farm in Franconia...

REASON It’s more logical to understand some of the things Frost does next if one knows that he is published in America.

References

I'd shorten the sentence somewhat, to read, "In 1915, during World War I ["as...began" would indicate 1914, or 1917], Frost returned to America, where Holt's American edition of A Boy's Will had recently been published [wikilink Holt possibly, but full name not necessary?], and bought a farm in Franconia... [no need to start new sentence]. Dhtwiki (talk) 18:49, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

 Done I have edited the article accordingly. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:07, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 December 2015

In 1940 he bought a 5-acre (2.0 ha) plot in South Miami, Florida, naming it Pencil Pines; he spent his winters there for the rest of his life. Today only 2.1 acres are left of his estate where his two original cabins stand. The pines that used to be there were swept away by hurricane Hugo. Jejoarjeil (talk) 22:33, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:18, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2016

Overall Robert Frost was one of the best poets ever.

68.228.111.7 (talk) 21:48, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. KGirlTrucker81 ^{huh? what I'm been doing} 22:32, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

The Letters of Robert Frost, Volume 2 1920–1928

The Letters of Robert Frost, Volume 2 1920–1928 have been released by HUP and should be added to the list. ISBN 9780674726642 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.24.78.35 (talk) 09:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

I've just added a citation for the second volume. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2017

Add the following to the Legacy section:

Robert Frost Hall is an academic building at Southern New Hampshire University in Manchester, New Hampshire. 2603:3005:D04:5C00:315D:65B2:DB82:7864 (talk) 14:08, 5 September 2017 (UTC)

References

 Done – I've added the text and reference you suggested. Dhtwiki (talk) 00:28, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

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Kennedy inaugural poem

Frost wrote and intended to recite "The Gift Outright to the Gift Outright" at President Kennedy's innauguration. There was NO other poem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.201.218.4 (talk) 17:29, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Frost did recite "The Gift Outright", from memory, when he couldn't read the poem he had composed for the occasion, but had not committed to memory. Dhtwiki (talk) 00:22, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Last year at Bread Loaf?

Can someone please change 1963 to 1962 as the last date on which Frost taught 'almost every summer and fall' at Bread Loaf? As he died in January 1963, it would have been remarkably difficult for him to be there in summer/fall 1963 ... Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.31.130 (talk) 17:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

This seems to be a change that should be made and hasn't been. The current text is unreferenced. Middlebury College's website says, "Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Robert Frost was closely involved with the first half-century of the school, coming first in 1921 and returning for 42 years." That doesn't give an end date but can be interpreted as describing a period ending in 1962. Dhtwiki (talk) 06:12, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

George Phillips

I have two concerns about this addition, which was erroneously marked as a minor edit. First, the Rev. Phillips doesn't have an article, and while he might be notable, there is no indication of it; all we're seeing is that he was some random ancestor of Frost's. Second, I'm wondering whether the Phillips connection is sourced to the same reference that was already there in the sentence, the Watson book. The new wording makes it appear that it is. Pinging Rsarlls. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 19:24, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the reach out. Rev Phillips will be getting his own page as he was one of the more important Puritan religious figures of 17th Century New England. I will check the Watson reference to see if this is already covered. Rsarlls (talk) 19:51, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

OK, that's great. Thanks! Please stop marking non-minor edits as minor. (See Help:Minor edits for guidance.) Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 19:53, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Poets Frost Influenced

Can somebody add a wikilink to the article for Edward_Thomas_(poet)? And maybe add Robert_Francis_(poet) to the list? Thanks! 206.208.104.20 (talk) 20:07, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done—Under "Influenced" section. Edward Thomas hadn't been linked probably because he had been mentioned further up. I went ahead and added a link, to "Edward Thomas", a redirect, to be consistent with previous link (article title is "Edward Thomas (poet)". Dhtwiki (talk) 23:47, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2018

Robert Frost's grave stone has the following date for children Elliot Frost: Sept 28, 1896 - July 28, 1900 <= 1900 not 1904

Wiki entry has Elliot (1896–1904)

• 
  Robert Frost

Joshmatix (talk) 19:17, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for noticing that. I've just made changes to Elliot's year of death at the article. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2019

In the bibliography, the proper spelling of the editor of volume 2 of the Letters of Robert Frost is: Hass, Robert Bernard 24.112.207.132 (talk) 19:10, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

 Done Fixed, thanks! aboideau^talk 19:15, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

England to UK?

Hi, informative article thanks. Can I respectfully suggest an edit?

"His work was initially published in England before it was published in America"

Although this is technically accurate, I feel a more sympathetic line would read UK or Great Britain. The source is Encyclopedia Britianica. US publications often use England in place of the UK or GB. Given the publication was in London, which was and is the capital of the UK, I feel this would add to the already good work. TheGlassMug (talk) 23:12, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Both my Encyclopedia Britannica (14th edition, 1956) and The Oxford Companion to English Literature (1995) write "England" as the place he moved to in 1912. I don't know what's sympathetic about saying UK or Great Britain instead. Sympathetic to what? To write "England" is more specific, as is giving "Scotland" as the place of his mother's birth (given that way in article?). Dhtwiki (talk) 12:13, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2020

Robert Frost appears in the Simpsons, season 4 , episode 15 , “ I love Lisa”. It is a flashback to a 1950s black and white clip of the krusty the clown show, where krusty dumps snow over mr frost and frost is quoted “ we discussed this and I said no” 157.131.200.145 (talk) 08:58, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

What do you want me to change? Please state in the form of change x to y please. Thanks! HeartGlow ^(talk) 12:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

No author has ever had a work published in England specifically. To record this as a fact shows a rare ignorance. The author's works were initially published in the UK.

Abundant inaccuracies in this article. Ridiculous. He deserves better. Paulcoll1971 (talk) 23:20, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2021

Add Robert Frost Middle School in Rockville, MD, Montgommery County https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/robertfrostms/ 2601:14F:4400:875E:C8A1:BB59:D701:3D4F (talk) 13:57, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done – The school's notability isn't established. The present article mentions that one college hall is named after Frost. If we start mentioning every elementary, middle, or high school that has that distinction, I'm afraid of its growing into a list that would overwhelm the article. Dhtwiki (talk) 20:04, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2021

Frost also taught regular at Dartmouth, beginning with a Fellowship in 1942-47, until his death. Source: Google “Frost at Dartmouth,” Rah er Reading Room, Dartmouth Alumni Magazine, etc George J McIlrath gjmcilrath@aol.com 2601:589:8001:8170:8858:1157:C1FE:4E5E (talk) 16:02, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —Belwine (talk) 16:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)