Talk:Richard Thompson (musician)/Archive 1

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Archive 1


Religion

This page is starting to bother me. Firstly because it's becoming poorly organised, secondly because it seems to place too much emphasis on Thompson's faith - trying, or so it seems to me, to paint him as a fundamentalist Muslim.

I'd like to give a total re-write a bash, however there doesn't seem to be a section in Wikipedia where I can put up a draft for comment.

Sorry, I thought two tildes would amount to signing my name. So I'm Bob Dubery - that's my name and mh wiki user name.

You can do this on a sub-page of your user page, eg. User:Bob Dubery/Richard Thompson -- TimNelson 08:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
You should use 4 tildes. -- TimNelson 08:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I've tweaked this article's account of Thompson's religious faith, and quoted some lyrics from "Outside of the Inside". I think it is an extraordinary song, but there is nothing in the lyrics that tells you the author is a committed Muslim. Instead, the song seeks to get inside the mind of a Jihadist suicide bomber in a sardonic and subtle way. It's a strikingly original song, perhaps more challenging than Springsteen's "Paradise" on The Rising. Mick gold 10:01, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Wife link

One thing that needs to be straightened out is providing a link to Linda Thompson. The "Linda Thompson" who is linked to through the Linda Peters link down in side projects is clearly not the same person, unless Linda had a secret early life where she was hanging out with Elvis. -- BoMaGoSh

Popular music ?

"Thompson is regarded as one of the most imaginative and individualistic stylists in popular music, as well as one of the most technically proficient."

I've got no problem with the "technically proficient" comment, however, I think it's a stretch to refer to this as "popular music". A more descriptive/precise musical category (British Folk?) would add to the introduction. Hu Gadarn 14:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

No, he's a popular musician, as opposed to (pure) folk or classical or whatever. He's just hasn't had much commercial success. You could say he was unpopular popular musician. Stylistically, he's not all that far from, say, Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan or any number of other better known popular musicians.--Chris 18:29, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
And here was me thinking he was electric folk (or at least folk rock). -- TimNelson 08:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Photos

Some images would be nice on the page, perhaps from a concert or even an album cover. Hu Gadarn 14:53, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

British or English?

Several references to "Britain" or "British" have been changed to "England" or "English".

Which should be used when discussing Thompson? He was born in England, that's certain, but he comes from a Scottish family, and has often expressed an affinity with Scotland, going so far as to say that if he had the choice he'd have played soccer for Scotland rather than for England.

Is it even an issue really?

My vote's for "British" A lot of the folk songs that he's done originate in Scotland (Patrick Spens, Willy O Winsbury), his father's Scottish. Anyway, "British" is really the correct term for everyone from the British Isles i.e. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Megamanic 02:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
What you describe as the British Isles, Megamanic, is actually the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. I doubt the citizens of Ireland (the country, that is) would consider themselves to be British, although geographically it's part of the British Isles.Gwladys24 (talk) 00:42, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

"not available in retail outlets"

Hey, I actually believed you guys and ordered a copy of 1000 Years of Popular Music through Thompson's website. Now a couple of days later I find it on the rack at A&B Sound. I could be listening to it now, but nooooo... I trusted Wikipedia.

Seriously, any objection to moving this one up to the section for mainstream releases? CJGB (Chris) 03:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

1000 Years of Popular Music

This is a bit of a confusing situation.

There are TWO distinct Thompson products with the title "1000 Years of Popular Music".

The first was a CD released on Thompson's own boutique label in 2003. This was recorded in 2002 with Thompson, Judith Owen on vocals and Michael Jerome on percussion. This recording has not been made available in regular RT outlets.

The second is a DVD with accompanying CDs released on the Cooking Vinyl label in 2006. This was recorded during a short tour in 2005, and the DVD has Thompson backed by Owen again on piano and vocals and by percussionist/vocalist Debra Dobkin.

These are different recordings of different performances with different song selections and different packaging. The first item is available only at gigs or via Thompson's web site. The second is more widely available.

So I think the current listing is correct - the DVD shown under DVDs and the earlier CD shown under fan club/boutique releases.

Bob Dubery 10:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Bringing It All Back Home

For completists: Richard Thompson recorded a duet with Dolores Keane and Mary Black, "The Dimming of the Day". It is available on "Bringing It All Back Home" (an anthology - not the same album as the one by Bob Dylan). Details here: - Brining it all back home and here Valley entertainment. As far as I know, it is not available elsewhere. Ogg (talk) 23:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Cites and ref tags

Hi there,

I would like to clean up the cites in this article. The best way would seem to be use ref tags which, in turn, will generate footnotes.

However I would like to be a little more precise where possible and include page numbers where the reference is a book.

The cite template will allow me to do that, but that seems to result in in-line entries rather than footnotes.

A good example is the Humphries biography referred to in several places. Is there way to have one master reference to that book and to add the page numbers each time that reference is referenced? Or do I need to do a full ref tag each time and have a footnote section with multiple references to the same ISBN, title, authour etc?

Thanks

Bob Dubery (talk) 12:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

If you surround the cite template with the ref tags <ref> </ref> that should work. Is that what you mean? Otherwise, try asking at the Wikipedia:Help_desk? Great work on the citations though, really improving the article I think (as the one who littered it with cite requests in the first place!) Ged UK (talk) 17:14, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
I haven't had time to try that yet. I'm hoping to find a way to make the cites more specific without having redundant entries in the reference list. Which may not be possible. I've checked out some other artists entries in Wikipedia and I think the way it is now is roughly in line with those. I'll try alternatives in the sandbox later, but in the meantime I think it's adding cites rather than refining cites that must take priority. Thanks Bob Dubery (talk) 06:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
I agree. Get the cites in, and if we can't get them formatted how we like, then hopefully a more skilled editor can help :) Ged UK (talk) 09:24, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Influence...

I noticed Richard's influence on other guitar players is mentioned, but the most notable, and obvious, is Mark Knopfler. I really think it should be mentioned. --BuddyOfHolly (talk) 14:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

I would also like the point out to the person who removed my "Mark Knopfler" edit that the "Tom Verlaine" "reference" is a personal opinion, rather than an actual fact. The link is to a review of "Old Kit Bag" where the author says: "without Thompson there would be no Tom Verlaine for starters..", but offers no quote from Verlaine. I have never read an interview with Verlaine where he mentioned RT, and this review is not a good citation. If you would like to debate this, please say something, because otherwise, it's going away. --BuddyOfHolly (talk) 22:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Walking on A Wire

I started an article on this compilation - if only to show I can use copy and paste :-) but there is a mismatch between the title of it in the main article and in the discography. Since I started from the discography, this is the title of the article - simply Walking on a Wire. In the main article the title is more correct in that it is given as Walking on a Wire : 1968-2009. But to make them match and remove the red link I changed the title in the main article since that was easiest at the time. Soarhead77 (talk) 17:43, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Discography

Thompson's discography is extensive. Currently it's being itemised both in the main Richard Thompson (musician) page as well as in the stand-alone discography. IMO one of these should go!

IMO the stand-alone discography should prevail, with perhaps a simple listing of Thompson's commercial releases UNDER HIS OWN NAME on the main page.

The stand-alone would also benefit from some brief notes as in the David Bowie discography, explaining the various phases of his career and providing some context to the breakdown of albums.

An interesting question is the categorisation of the "Dream Attic" album. This is a live album entirely comprising reviously unreleased material. There are precedents for this. Those would be Jackson Browne's "Running on Empty" and Joe Jackson's "Big World". Those seem to be categorised as studio albums. They're not really, but they're also not the more usual kind of live album which usually consists mosly of previously released material.

Thoughts please. This is a good time to review the RT discography as he has just released a new album and it will probably be a while before there's another addition to the discography.

My proposal is 1) ONE discography, that being this stand-alone discography 2) A reduced list on the main page of "Richard Thompson" and "Richard and Linda Thompson" albums, released for retail and excluding compilations, on the main RT page. No tables of details - just a simple list with links. 3) Tidy up the discography. It LOOKS long and a little untidy IMO. I would bring it closer in design to the Jackson Browne or David Bowie discographies. 4) A couple of explanatory paragraphs at the top of the discography. This would also serve as a definition of WHAT should be included in the RT discography.

I have posted a similar message and proposal in the talk section of the RT discography page.

Regards

Bob Dubery (talk) 04:43, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Knopfler and Thompson

FWIW - and I'm coming in late here - Knopfler is not hugely influenced by RT. There are superficial similarities in their playing, but that's all. Also there is only a few months difference in their ages. A young Knopfler probably didn't grow up listening to Thompson. It's more likely that they have common influences.

Bob Dubery (talk) 04:43, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Guitars

Hi all,

News on Thompson's web site today - he just got two new guitars.

See http://www.richardthompson-music.com/catch_of_the_day.asp?id=1331

The section on his guitars was out of data already (he never uses that '59 strat for anything serious these days) and is getting more so.

It's a PITA to keep things like this up to date, and the details are not important.

I propose to amend these sections to show more general notes, not specifics of guitars. It's clear, for example, that he has long preferred and used electric guitars with single coil pickups. THAT is relevant to a discussion about his style and guitar sound. The details of individual guitars are less important and including such information imposes a higher maintenance burden.

Comments please.

Bob Dubery (talk) 09:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

New references do not belong in External links. They belong here!

New references do not belong in External links. They belong here! I am moving them here- please help out and do so in the future, since External links is not where they belong. Thank you! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 02:42, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

improving cites

Several sites I put on this page refer to a book by Patrick Humprhries. There are requests now for page numbers. Now, I don't know how to do this in wiki language. Also I don't want to have to create 20 odd references to the same book. So what is the recommended way to improve these cites?

Bob Dubery (talk) 05:00, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Tyldesley provides an example of how they are done in a Good Article. One of the editors primarily responsible for that article, User:J3Mrs, may be able to help you further, if they are not too busy. Hope that helps. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:47, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Overall Tone

There's a lot of good material here. Clearly much effort has been expended on this article, and I applaud you for that. But the overall tone is rather over-heated and over-written, rather than sober and factual. For example:

  • "Thompson was starting to emerge as a songwriter of distinction."
  • "...cover photo of a turbaned Richard Thompson gazing out at the world..." (this particularly annoys me)
  • "The Thompsons found themselves without a contract, but not without admirers..."
  • "In 1985 Thompson returned to the big league."
  • "For a short while a late career commercial breakthrough seemed likely."
  • "Thompson has been well served by compilers of retrospective collections."

All of this seems sort of breathless and melodramatic to me. These are the sort of sentiments that would be more at appropriate in a music magazine or better yet, a fan magazine. But this is an encyclopedia article. It ought to read more like a college textbook.

I will leave it to others to decide what, if anything, to do about all this. BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 19:22, 21 June 2015 (UTC) 21 June 2015

Maybe a slice of this? But I tend to agree. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:27, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
Ha! Seriously, there's plenty of good writing here. Just perhaps take it down a notch in terms of tone. BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 19:48, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

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