Talk:Restless legs syndrome/Archive 1

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Archive 1

German image

The German article has a nice (looking) image if anyone can translate it. gren グレン 17:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Vanadalism

Removed "RLS does not actually exist. It is a pshychological disorder that was made up to make people feel better about themselves. If you have these symptaoms, you probalbly are crazy and shouldn't make things up to get attention. Get over your problems and stop complaining." It looks like RadioTalk, famous for removing vandalism, put this in? I'm sure I'm reading that wrong. I do very few edits.--Knapster2005 15:19, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry. It was 209.92.76.43 that did the vandalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Knapster2005 (talk • contribs) 08:31, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

South African train drivers

This sounds like a habitual action carried over into sleep. I cannot see how this is relevant to RLS. I move to remove it. --Gak 06:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Snopes/soap removed

I removed the link to the snopes page regarding soap as a cure. This refers to leg cramps, which is a different problem. Xzqx 20:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Blood circulation and/or smoking related?

I was just wondering if there is formidable evidence to suggest that RLS is related to blood circulation? The reason I bring this up is because I often experience RLS; almost every night. I do smoke, and have noticed that if I have a cigarette within approximately an hour before bed, I experience virtually no RLS. I'm not suggesting that smoking is good or anything, but I wonder if it draws a relation to blood circulation, as smoking would reduce the circulation. Stovetopcookies 01:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Requip?

My wife used to often complain of this tingling sensation that would not allow her to go right to sleep. I noticed it happen since we moved in together, she would do something comparable to hand clapping, but with her feet, somehow the arch of each foot meeting and making a strong thumping sound. She would say that it felt really good, but to me it sounded like it was painfull, I tried it, and it is painfull. Appears that it brings her some comfort. We have been living in the United States for almost 4 years, and i just learned, thanks to a TV comercial, that it may be an actual condition (RLS), a tingling, and very bothersome feeling from the knees down and concentarting mostly, and most of the times, on the area of the calves and feet. This happens about 3 or 4 times a month, and to the best of my knowledge and memory, that medical condition is what my wife has.

The TV comercial I mention is the one for Requip. I have tried to find a way to get this resolved for my wife via a pill, capsule, pastille, or any other medical route, but I would not like for her to be taking stuff that has all these side effects. So far, I massage her feet and legs for about 3 to 5 minutes each, whenever it happens, and that does it just fine, next thing I know she is sleeping like a baby and i hear nothing more of it for the rest of the night.

We come from a country in Latin America, and so close to the equator, that some medical conditions known in more developed countries are not even recorded as general public awarenesses, for example the Flu, yes the Flu!

So when my wife would start complaining about the discomfort we never thought there would be a name for it (if that is what she has). We do not give it much attention, though. We were planning on going to an acupuncturist speciallist (if that is the way to type it), but we decided it is not that big of an issue. My wife has changed her diet from a lot of red meat to poultry and fish, as well as vegetables, since the last couple of years, she as always been very slim and she hardly gains any weight, fast metabolism, she works standing up most of the time, and exercises quite often, she does have some circulatory issues, since she has some spider veins on her heels. She takes a multivitamin, Co-Q10, Gotu-Kola pills, fish oil, and protein shakes. Before this change in her diet this discomfort would appear 2 or 3 times a week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.70.39.45 (talk) 10:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Hemochromatosis

The section on iron therapy states that excessive intake of iron can cause hemochromatosis. That makes no sense. Hemochromatosis is a genetic disease. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.78.60.1 (talk) 14:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

You're right. I've changed the Hemochromatosis link to Iron overload disorder. — ceejayoz talk 15:07, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

No sources Cited for this comment

It is possible that it may be made worse by diet, specifically the consumption of saturated fats, such as found in cheese, biscuits (cookies), butter, beef, etc. Try avoiding such fats for a week or two and see if the condition improves.

(Posted by an anonymous user (84.67.44.50). I've removed it.) - JRice 02:57, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

I wrote that. It is based on personal experience and seems to be true for me. A sufferer may find that a simple modification of their diet reduces their discomfort, but you have removed it. Perhaps you have your own agenda and would prefer people to use patented drugs? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.255.200 (talk) 03:01, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

But you can't just add shoddy medical advice because it "seemed" to work for you. You need to provide some studies or research into it or something. On a related note, I thought dehydration and bad circulation were points to note. Or maybe I am getting mixed up with leg cramps.. are cramps a symptom of RLS? I thought so but it doesn't seem to be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.41.85.24 (talk) 07:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are not the place for "discussion-board-like" informal opinions and speculation. Encyclopedic style writing with sources stemming from published studies and the like should make up the bulk of the article. Subjective stuff like "xxxx this diet change works for me, try avoiding..." simply doesn't belong here, as good-intentioned as you might be. Visit your local RLS message board for that type of thing. =) --A6Patch 05:10, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, there's already research that seems to indicate this. RLS occurs less often in countries with lower saturated fat consumptions. It's already in the article. I don't think anything else needs to actually be added to what's already there, but there is research going on right now trying to make that exact connection. *botches a shooting star press* -- DomColosi 04:27, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Correlation does not imply causation. Countries with higher saturated fat consumptions tend to be the wealthier, more industrialised ones, which means there are hundreds or thousands of potential factors, not just levels of saturated fat. — ceejayoz talk 15:12, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

As a symptom of other conditions

Should there be additional discussion of conditions that include these symptoms? For example, it is well known that opiate withdrawal syndrome can produce "jimmy legs". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.75.170.119 (talk) 03:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Opiate withdrawal includes spasms all over the body, caused by random firing of nerves previously damped down by the opiate. From personal experience of both, the two are unrelated. Cdavis999 00:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone experienced urge to rock their hips back and forth? genevieve — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.130.166.195 (talk) 10:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. More specifically, actually doing the rocking (pelvic thrusting of a frankly, er, shagging nature) relieves the discomfort. I'd say its an 'urge to rock the hips' in the same way that an itch is an urge to scratch.
When my RLS was most acute and untreated, I managed to train myself to do this action automatically. This allowed me to get to sleep, humping away on auto-pilot. Cdavis999 00:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Time Magazine 2007 re: RLS

I have not editted this info in. Pls add into article since its a good informational update.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1686833-4,00.html

Restless-Leg Syndrome

For the estimated 3% of people who experience the prickly, twitchy, downright creepy sensation of restless-leg syndrome (RLS), there is a bit of welcome news. Icelandic researchers studied nearly 1,000 RLS subjects and their family members and traced uncontrolled limb movements, one symptom of the condition, to a gene that regulates the body's iron levels. Studying the gene could help scientists figure out how to shut RLS off at its source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryndamor (talk • contribs) 10:18, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I have added a ref to the study. --Arcadian (talk) 13:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Husbands and Wives

Isn't this one of those conditions that affects ones spouse more than the individual, like snoring? I'm surprised there is absolutely no mention of this in the article. --Rick Santorum

Not particularly. RLS can cause chronic sleep deprivation for the patient, and although the movement will probably affect someone in the same bed, with the discomfort and insomnia etc. the emphasis is firmly on the patient. The related (possibly very related...) periodic leg movement disorder or Nocturnal myoclonus is probably closer to your mark (but still disruptive to the afflicted). Geno-Supremo (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Likely Vandalism

I deleted most of the synonyms for RLS because they appeared to be vandalism:

Jumpy Legs, Jiggly Legs, Jimmy Jams, Heebeejeebees, spare legs, "the kicks", kicky-outy legs, stretchy legs, or sewing machine foot)[citation needed]

Kicky-outy legs?

The only references I can find are verbatim copies from the wikipedia article.

Alexbrewer 16:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I suspect some of those terms might be useful for someone searching Wikipedia without knowing what to call it (assuming there's someone left out there that hasn't seen the ads 200 or more times on the television). Ewlyahoocom 18:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Some of us poor souls live in countries so backward that ads for prescription meds never reach TV - in part because distribution of such meds in in the hands of a nationalised health service, and in part because frightening people into demanding drugs from the docs is not considered a good idea. Honi soit qui mal y pense.--Cdavis999 (talk) 11:06, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


The website http://flowcushion.com/flow/restless-leg-syndrome.htm has the following:

Explanation

RLS (which is also sometimes referred to as Jimmy Legs, Jumpy Legs, Jiggly Legs, Jimmy Jams, Heebeejeebees, spare legs, "the kicks", kicky-outy legs, stretchy legs, or sewing machine foot) may be described as uncontrollable urges to move the limbs in order to stop uncomfortable, painful or odd sensations in the body, most commonly in the legs. Moving the affected body part modulates the sensations, providing temporary relief. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ThomasJCyrus (talk • contribs) 12:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it IS a real disease

Those commenters who believe this is not a real disease and those who suffer are "making it up", please see some of the external links, including rls.org. It can be quite a debilitating disease. It sounds silly, but millions of people are not making up these symptoms or complaining about nothing. Xzqx 20:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Good for keeping up to date with newresearch in RLS : *Restless Legs Syndrome - new research, news reports, new books — Preceding unsigned comment added by JarykSmith (talk • contribs) 06:16, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if it's a disease or not, but whatever it is, I'm pretty sure it's real, as I have it, or something very similiar to it. I never really thought much about it (apart from trying to describe it) until I saw it on that Requip commercial, and then thought, "Hmm, that describes what I feel, didn't know there was a name or anything." Best I've ever been able to describe it as is a sensation like the start of a shiver, sometimes starting in my lower back, or in my legs (when I'm laying down, late at night). It feels like I need to coax out the "shiver", the same way you might coax out a sneeze, which makes it seem like I need to move or stretch. Of course, that doesn't help. Certainly wouldn't call it debilitating, and probably wouldn't think to actually bother getting it treated, as it's a relatively minor annoyance that crops up just before I fall asleep from time to time (thought it is fairly common, it usually passes long before I actually start to fall asleep).

Whatever it is, I have the feeling that it's probably not a single syndrome, and there are probably similair sensations which could be caused by any variety of triggers, with a drug company lumping it all together to try and pull people out of the woodwork. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.120.3.168 (talk) 23:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I would also like to add...this is not dibilitating to some. Mainly those who do not have it, or those who only have it very mildly. I have had this since before I can remeber. I am 31. I do get the"urge" to move my legs, my hip and even my arms. Before I sleep, while I sleep, and while I am waking. It's almost in stages. Before I sleep, I lie in bed then get the urge to move my leg. I move, then I soon after have to move my arm. I've even gotten it in my neck. It alsmost feels like someone is dragging a feather or very small needle across my neck. This episode goes sometimes as long as 3 or 4 hours. Then I "kick" in a very rythmic and sometimes violent manner throughout my slumber. Then when I wake...I stretch and then my hands, arms, feet contract and release for up to 10 or 20 minutes EVERY DAY!!It is very dibilitating. I wake totally exhausted for the entire day. This greatly affects my work performance, and daily tasks as I'm lacking energy. And long car trips...forget about it. I had to sleep on a couch for 4 months because I kept my partner awake with my supposed "disorder" many people are claiming to be fake. I'm living proof. It is not fake and there are many "folk" remedies I have tried. Not much of anything works.I also didn't know there was a name for it either until I saw the Requip commercial. My father also has this. Everyone in my family calls it "hot feet" It was a relief to know I wasn't the only one and that there is a medical cure. Thanks.207.230.204.188 05:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)JillS. WI

Could it just be built up anxiety? I've been a constant "sewing machine" leg shaker since childhood and mostly it's due to built up anxiety. I never felt tingles, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.47.15.38 (talk) 16:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I've been a leg shaker all my life too, and now have RLS. Totally different thing. Leg shaking you can suppress, if you think about it. It's not unpleasant. RLS is unpleasant, more of an involuntary, twitching kind of thing.  :-) I sometimes have both things going on at the same time, and leg shaking is actually somewhat comforting. RLS is anything but comforting. I suspect the cause is some kind of chemical imbalance - it's common with kidney failure patients where chemical imbalance is the norm.KBrown (talk) 15:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Doppler ultrasound, not duplex

I believe the article means Doppler ultrasound , not Duplex. Doppler ultrasound measures the rate of blood flow within a blood vessel. Frank a saunders (talk) 01:34, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Comments

I've been hunting for a reference for the possible use of Trimipramine as a treatment for RLS but have yet to find one--and, in fact, it being a tricyclic antidepressant would suggest Trimipramine could in fact worsen RLS (certainly the literature I've found so far cautions against the use of tricyclics and even at times specifically against Trimipramine in RLS patients for that reason). From personal experience, I can state that Trimipramine did cause complete RLS remission and that a later switch to Doxepin triggered a recurrence of RLS... but that's original research, and I'm obviously not going to put that into the RLS article. I do remember reading an abstract in medical literature citing Trimipramine as a potential treatment option in some RLS cases, but so far have had no luck finding that same article again. If anyone comes across it or a related piece, it would make sense to add Trimipramine/Surmontil to the "other medicinal approaches" section. Exerda 21:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

the second portion is undoubtedly an advertisement of some sort. needs to be corrected. - AC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.130.22.37 (talk) 06:03, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

CORRECT - GSK have been very clever in their 'astroturfing', in other words pretending to be writing from a 'grassroots' perspective. I am a final year medical student and have done research into these areas, sorry I can't write this up properly (no time) but I can point any interested people in the right direction... http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030170 for an article on this precise disease from a slightly sceptical viewpoint. And - www.pmcpa.org/completedcases, reference No 1801/2/06 for the the case against the manufacturer of the main drug of choice GlaxoSmithKline, in which they were found guilty (also in August 2006 British Medical Journal). Try PLOS Medicine / Selling Sickness by Moynihan / nofreelunch.org if you're interested in this subject. No doubt this disease does exist, but in a far greater proportion of the population than the drug company wants to make out. Any support group that believes the drug company are trying to benefit mankind should simply read the statements they release to the stockmarket - see where their priorities lie? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.104.185.186 (talk) 16:14, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Looks like there is a correlation between this disease and iron "Doctors suspecting RLS often test for iron levels in the blood, because research suggests low brain levels of iron may be associated with the condition." Wonder whether there is anybody around with a medical knowledge to comment about this treatment " I was given two options. The first -- a nightly episode of catatonia courtesy of a serious opiate, such as OxyContin. My mind quickly weighed this one. Opiates: Nice. Lifelong mental and physical addiction: Not so nice.

The second alternative was a Parkinson's drug, based on newer research suggesting that RLS, like Parkinson's disease, is tied to insufficient levels of dopamine. The normal fluctuation in these levels -- they're higher in the daytime and lower at night -- explains why RLS symptoms manifest at night. Dopamine, a neurotransmitter that relays messages from neurons to brain cells involved in the control of movement, is the link between the body's sensory and motor systems." Other treatments that may work "opiates, anticonvulsants and, in some cases, iron supplements" Now this looks funny "Possible underlying causes of RLS as spinal cord disorders, lumbar or cervical injuries and kidney failure" At first, i thought she was playing pank on me when she suggested kidney failure as a possible cause, but then i remembered kidney plays a part in elements regulation. Any, the whole article is here, be warned though, it is really long [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wk muriithi (talk • contribs) 21:37, 31 January 2005 (UTC)

just a thought This article seems unusually informal for the wiki, hmm. - 20 June 2005 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.138.155.20 (talk) 19:36, 20 June 2005 (UTC)

just a thought This can't be taken seriously. I can't believe people are complaining about this "syndrome." --Time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.81.112.79 (talk) 10:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's easy to say that when you've never experienced it. What's next -- are epileptics faking?
It's just a bizarre feeling. I only get it rarely -- perhaps a couple times per year. It *is* hard to describe; just calling it a feeling that you "have to move" doesn't really cut it. It's sort of like blinking. You don't *have* to blink. However, if you don't, your eyes will bother you more and more until you do, and it'll become harder and harder to ignore until you do. I'd just lie in bed trying to ignore the feeling, kicking randomly when I could no longer stand it, sometimes getting up and walk around for a while before lying back down, and sometimes repeating that over and over.
I had no clue what it was called, and had struggled to describe it to my partner, until Stephen Colbert offhandedly mentioned it on The Colbert Report in part of a joke. I looked it up on Wikipedia, and suddenly had an "OMG, it has a name!" moment. No, it's not a major problem in my life -- just an infrequent annoyance that robs me of a couple hours of sleep every now and then. No, I have no plans to take medication for it. But pretending that it's fake is just silly.
Hearing that it can be related to diet makes an awful lot of sense, because I'm a vegetarian. We have to be more careful about getting a nutritionally balanced diet than omnivores. It also makes a lot of sense that I don't have any solid recollections of it happening before I went vegetarian years back. Next time it happens, I'll pay more attention to what I was eating over the past couple days, and perhaps eat more leafy greens (iron). Of course, I started taking a vitamin two months ago and it hasn't happened since, so perhaps I won't have to deal with it again so long as I stay on it.
Lastly, just because something is hard to describe doesn't make it less real. My partner is epileptic. Before she has a seizure, she has a sensation that warns her that it's coming on. She describes it as "zingers" -- the best she can say it is that it feels like things are "zinging about inside her brain". When her father got brain cancer and started having seizures, he described the exact same symptom. -- Rei 20:30, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Note to Rei -- you're an Omnivore. Being a vegetarian doesn't change your species. 24.30.29.24 (talk) 13:39, 15 December 2008 (UTC)



just a thought This can't be taken seriously. I can't believe people are complaining about this "syndrome."--Time

Oh its real!!! I have a very severe form of RLS! After living with this all of my life, I'm 39, I was finally able to put a name to it about 5 years ago!! I'm very disapointed with this article. I hope people seeking accurate information about RLS will go to the RLS foundations Web Site! http://rls.org THEY ARE THE EXPERTS IN THIS AREA!! This article should be rewritten from the information givien on the foundations website or by someone at the foundation!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.51.18.35 (talk) 18:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Personal experience with RLS

I have suffered with RLS ever since childhood (I'm now 38) and have formed the following conclusions:

  • Symptoms can always be relieved (temporarily, but at least long enough to provide relief) by deep stretches similar to a runner's warmup, i.e. pulling legs up and back, bending over a straight leg, stretching hamstrings)
  • Often, clenching of the buttocks will relieve the entire leg (or legs - it's usually one leg more than another, however). This leads me to believe that poor circulation is at least partly responsible. Foot stimulation will also work sometimes.
  • Mental distraction will also often do away with symptoms. This is troubling, since it somewhat negates the theory of physical root causes
  • Sexual stimulation and subsequent orgasm will always provide long-lasting relief from symptoms, particularly if combined with clenching/stretching of legs and buttocks. While this may be controversial, it works and has been mentioned on other message boards of RLS sufferers (wemove.org, etc.)
  • Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint), the last method is the only one I know that provides quick, lasting relief. All other stretches, etc. are time-consuming and hardly practical in many situations, especially if disabled in any way. I have to wonder what chemical effect contributes, or whether orgasm is tied to the mental distraction I mention above?

Azimuth401 (talk) 18:48, 7 January 2009 (UTC)Azimuth401

Come on, folks. This page is for discussing the article, not the topic. Material for the article needs to come from reputable publication, so all this anecdotal stuff, even if true, is not usable. This applies to the previous message as well. Looie496 (talk) 19:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there advertising in thar?

  • Some patients have reported satisfactory relief using the medication Mirapex.

This sentence, the slogan It's not just you, and the "informal" tone complained about above, coupled with the fact that a patented drug that treats this symptom has recently turned up on national TV using this slogan, makes me wonder whether this is an ad.

Is there any medical scepticism about the existence, or worthiness of treatment with drugs, of this alleged syndrome? I will admit, this was my reaction to the ads, although I forget whose ads they were. Smerdis of Tlön 7 July 2005 18:41 (UTC)

I believe it was Bill Maher. He said something like "Restless Leg Syndrome, it's basically your body telling you to get out of your easy chairs and your SUVs and use your legs." --Michael Larson — Preceding unsigned comment added by user IP address (talk) 10:12, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm sure it's easy to doubt this problem's existence when you yourself do not have it. Try to have an open mind, okay? For me, this incredibly uncomfortable sensation comes at night and it practically forces the muscles my legs to tense up or even move. It is hard to describe to anyone who hasn't felt it, but I assure it's real. It's not painful, but the sensation will wake me up and keep me up for a random amount of time until some simple exercises like walking or light lifting make it go away. Imagine getting woken up in the middle of the night a few times a week and having to fully get up and exercise just to get some peace. It's not very fun, and it can become exhausting. I agree that the drug commercials seem silly, even for someone who has this problem from time to time, but then all drug commercials seem stupid. My point is please don't criticize an article's worthiness on Wikipedia just because you haven't experienced the subject firsthand. As odd as RLS may sound, it's very real and a problem for many. Sprngpilot (talk • contribs) 03:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
On a related tack, GSK used a patients support website to market Ropinirole for restless legs syndrome and has had their wrists slapped.Dyer O (2006). "GSK breached marketing code". Brit Med J. 333 (7564): 368. The ruling is at [www.pmcpa.org/completedcases] reference number 1801/2/06.--Gak 14:30, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, GSK has been doing dirty practices to sell more drugs. No, that doesn't change how real the disease is. -- Rei 20:41, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure Bill Maher is a good son to his ol' mum and dad, but my experience has been that the condition worsens greatly when I do unusual amounts of walking/climbing etc. I cope by boosting my medication on nights after strenuous walks.Cdavis999 23:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I can certainly vouch for the profundity of this condition. Like anything else that prevents one getting to sleep, it can be crippling. I seems to have gotten mine (according to the neurologist I consulted) as a result of being put on an SSRI during a period when I became stressed while working on a complex and demanding project. (Frankly, I think my stress was a reaction to being stressed - it went away when the project ended - but it's too late now and I'm addicted to the damn things.) Having received nothing from my doc for the RLS but Valium, I went and found a source of highly illegal street methadone, and have been taking about 15mg a night ever since. This killed the RLS stone dead, and also removed various aches and pains. I recommend it, despite the horror it caused my doctor. Cdavis999 23:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
If you are taking methadone, you have way bigger problems than RLS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.223.103.183 (talk) 19:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Shaking leg/foot?

Then what is it when you have your foot on the ground but your heel is in the air, and then your foot and leg starts shaking up and down? (It seems common...) (I was told it was because we're pressing on a nerve in the foot that causes it) -- azure talk × contribs 17:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that you take this question to the reference desk. Article talk pages are for discussing the development of articles. --Gimme danger (talk) 18:00, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
To my knowledge, this is RLS. I have this problem, and it drives my girlfriend crazy when she's leaning on me. It doesn't just happen with my foot-on-the-ground/heal-in-the-air. As I sit now, my legs are crossed with no part of either foot on the ground, and my foot is still shaking, so it's not a pinched nerve or anything. GAMEchief (talk) 21:50, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Is alcohol a factor?

Some alcoholics i've seen move their feet sometimes violently when they are sleeping. Only when they're drunk though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.59.5.156 (talk) 16:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Doubt it's very related. The sleep state includes a physical paralysis specifically induced by nerve connection from the brain that shut muscles down. Damage those nerves and an animal will get up and walk around in its sleep. I'd suspect that alcohol damage either to these nerves or to their signalling is responsible.
RLS is, in a sense, a problem with getting to sleep. It's more about an urge to move than the movement itself, ISTM. Once I fall asleep after an attack, I suspect I probably stop moving. Imagine getting to sleep when your legs feel as though they've been stuck in one position for hours and hours - even though they haven't. Imagine the urge that makes people want to get up and 'stretch their legs' on long-haul flights, multiply by 100, and try to get to sleep while it's going on. --Cdavis999 (talk) 10:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I was diagnosed with RLS about 3 years ago, whenever I drink alcohol, 2-3 drinks, my legs start acting up and the RLS gets really bad. But this is also something I have had a long as I can remember, 25+ years. So alcohol may make the symptoms worse, they did not create the problem in me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.236.0.11 (talk) 17:25, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Illustrative image

File:RLS-Schlafmuster.png needs citating and further explanation.

Also description of "Sleep pattern of a Restless Legs Syndrome patient" seems wrong - the primary problem is not of the sleep cycle, but rather that it gets interupted. "Interupted sleep of a Restless Legs Syndrome patient" might be better. I would still like a reliable source to confirm that this is a typical frequency of re-awakening for a typical patient. David Ruben Talk 12:49, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Epidemiology

Today I was told that RLS is considered as rare disease in the USA. This fact does not match to the percentages in this article. What is right and what is wrong? --193.57.67.241 (talk) 10:46, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Topomax

I HAVE RLS AND TOOK TOPOMAX FOR MIGRAINES. DO NOT TAKE TOPOMAX IF YOU HAVE RLS!!!!!! MADE IT MUCH WORSE. CONFIRMED BY SEVERAL STUDIES I FOUND AT THE PUBMED WEBSITE...OTHER PEOPLE HAVING THIS PROBLEM TOO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Interestedperson (talk • contribs) 07:43, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Irresistible?

The lead says that the RLS is characterized by an irresistible urge to move one's body. Personal experience (obviously unverifiable) says that the urge is very difficult to resist rather than impossible (at least in my case). I am not going to be bold and change the article because I do not have reliable sources to support my view and I have a feeling that such a change would be controversial, however, I notice that the irresistible claim is not referenced. Has research been done about the resistability of the urges? Sorry if this seems pedantic, but I think it is an important difference. Quasihuman (talk) 13:36, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Source it or delete it

The sourcing on this entry is terrible. There is very little that specifically cites a reliable source, such as a medical journal, a US or UK government web site, an academic medical center, a reliable on-line textbook, or any source. There's just a long list of general citations at the bottom (and some of them seem to be advertising, or other sources like chat rooms that aren't allowed in Wikipedia). It's mostly people giving their own personal opinions, which also isn't allowed in Wikipedia.

I read an article in the New England Journal of Medicine on restless leg syndrome recently, and I would call that a good source. There was also an article in PLOS arguing that the pharmaceutical companies took a rare disease and exaggerated it into a common complaint to promote their new drug. I'd also like to get some alternative views -- but under Wikipedia rules, editors can't just write, "I tried it and it worked for me."

I think we should start deleting everything that is unsourced. Does everyone agree? Does anyone object? Where's that medical student? Nbauman 01:10, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

While I certainly agree with the desire to keep content properly referenced and sourced, it seem to me that this syndrome is new enough to warrant a leetle leeway. My own RLS, which was severe enough to make sleep impossible when it was untreated, resulted - as diagnosed by a professional neurologist - from the SSRIs I was taking. Given that SSRIs are relatively new, but their use is widespread, I would expect that a new cluster of RLS sufferers will have appeared in recent years.
There may be other novel dietary, medical or environmental triggers that will produce new clusters of sufferers. If the opinion of the man in the street is that the condition doesn't even exist, this subject may need rather gentle treatment. So go easy on stuff that seems solid even if it doesn't have a Pubmed reference Cdavis999 00:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia requires reliable sources. Otherwise, we'd have every disease page loaded with home remedies and quack cures. If it has a reliable source, it's solid. If it doesn't have a reliable source, it's not solid. If it doesn't have a reliable source, we should delete it. The most reliable source is a Pubmed reference. If it has no source at all, it must go.
Quite. "Osteopathy Today" appears to be a trade magazine rather than a reliable medical journal, and I would expect to see more solid evidence to back up a treatment which claims to have an 80/90% success rate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.170.174 (talk) 00:48, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
I am being bold and deleting any "Osteopathy Today" connection.--189.192.3.222 (talk) 18:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Apologies, I'm not sure why I was signed out, but this was posted by myself--Cpt ricard (talk) 18:30, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
If you can find RLS in the SSRI's FDA-approved label, that's a reliable source.
Wikipedia definitely prohibits "what worked for me" additions, because that's [[WP:OR] original research. Nbauman 22:26, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Trying to share personal experiences and remedies would be prevented??!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert inks (talk • contribs) 06:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
This is an encyclopedia. The Talk page is for discussing the encyclopedia entry; it is not an online support group. 71.63.15.156 (talk) 03:07, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Controversy

This needs to be rewritten to remove personal bias, if it is allowed to stay at all. For now, I have removed it. The only truth in it is that the RLS Foundation does receive funding from the drug companies. This implied that no one needed drug treatment prior to the drug companies entry into marketing an RLS drug. On the contrary, the people with severe RLS have either suffered greatly or taken whatever drugs they could get. The REST study, involving over 200,000 people in several continents, discovered a rate of RLS at about 10% - this is not any higher than what the drug company is saying. It goes without saying that not all need treatment. But those who do should have some options. Until GSK stepped forward, not ONE medicine was FDA approved for this disease. And, for some people, this disease is literally disabling. I have no doubt the making money was at the heart of GSK's decision. That, however is at the heart of almost every business decision ever made. - Jan 10, 2006, VA — Preceding unsigned comment added by ViewsAskew (talk • contribs) 23:10, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I restored this for now, with a bit of minor rewording. Please do NOT remove the entire section without first discussing it. However, the wording needs to be redone and the section expanded. 74.242.102.3 00:35, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Idiot. There is no such thing as information without personal bias. It’s a physical impossibility and social absurdity. “Neutral” is just what arrogant egocentric dicks use, to say “my personal bias”. So in essence you are saying “This does not fit my world view, and my bias, so it needs to be rewritten to fit my views and biases.”. But how can you say that your bias is better than that of someone else? Unless you can base it upon the laws of quantum physics (I partially manage to do that, btw.), you can not do that, without coming across as a major dick who thinks the world revolves only around him. I said “idiot” more because of your ignorance (comparable to religious delusions) than because of your stupid dickishness. — 88.77.157.184 (talk) 03:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

(Unproven) Anecdotal/ Home Remedies

A quick search around the web provided the following (unproven) Home Remedies.

Someone may wish to research any of these further and provide proof or disprove them towards furthering the treatment section of the article.

  • Drink Tonic Water which contains Quinine
  • Iron Deficiency
  • Vitamin B or B12 deficiency
  • Seek Chiropractic or Physio to adjust lower lumber of the spine.
  • Bar of soap in the bed - balances excessive electrical impulses of the body??
  • Wear socks to bed / keep legs warm
  • Reduce carbohydrates and fatty acids in your diet, less sugar, white bread etc.
  • Avoid processed fats ie. fried chips and margarines with 'Trans Fatty acids'
  • Focus on mainly eating Whole Foods, avoid highly processed carbs, white breads, white sugar, biscuits etc.

My main references was anecdotal reports on: http://ehealthforum.com/health/topic2685.html

--219.90.178.108 (talk) 03:10, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

RE: Drink tonic water which contains Quinine Quinine Sulphate 200-300mg at bedtime. I was surprised not to find this listed in the article as it is commonly prescribed in the UK. I suggest the article be amended to include: "For those whose restless legs are associated with cramping of the muscles, Quines Sulphate 200-300mg may be taken at bed time. This will relieve symptoms in 25% of patients within four weeks. The use of this drug should be reviewed every three months under the supervision of a doctor as it is a highly toxic in overdose."

Source: The British National Formulary edition 51. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mince42 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The article has this line: "Quinine is frequently used off label to treat RLS, but is not recommended by the FDA due to its risk of serious hematological side effects." Is there a point to adding that in the Netherlands, a derivative of quinine, hydroquinine (no not hydroquinOne) is prescribed under the name Inhibin? Looking around, it seems the Netherlands is the only country using Inhibin. The included warnings do not include hemotological problems. Then again, the FDA only has any relevance in one country, the US. 188.204.147.121 (talk) 13:38, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

adding 'home remedies'

I first recall having RLS 35 years ago, some times several times a week. When I saw the TV advertisement I flipped. I thought it was due to being cold or lack of / excessive exercise? I found deep massage or a hot soak in the tube brought temporary relief. HOWEVER, I was once told at work that Magnesium could provide relief of leg cramps at night from standing all day, AND it worked for me. Taking about 1600mg at the onset of symptoms or about 800 before attempting to sleep provided relief. I have no higher medical education but am adding this to the articles siting my own experience. Also this does affect ones sleeping partner as I have been kicked out of bed often, Robert inks (talk) 06:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I have suffered from RLS for 20 or more years and the only thing I found to help was to exercise regular.My G.P. told me it was coursed by either too much exercise or too little and I should walked at least 1 mile a day. I noticed that I had R.l.S. more often when I wasn't working and resting more and so I took the G.P.s advice and try to walk at least 1mile aday. If I go several days without exercise then I suffer at night.There is no need for expensive drugs just exercise. Believe me it works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.169.51.96 (talk) 08:24, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Please read WP:NPOV and especially WP:WEIGHT. If you want to add information, don't add original research, only statements that can be backed by verified references and reliable sources. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 06:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Excuse me. Can you suggest how I might pass on information it took 30 years for me to find out on this condition. I decided to add this after my brother linked me to the final casualty of the 'USS Swordfish (SSN-579)' which is obviously an un-sitable story. 3% of the population may be waiting for this information. R/ rrinks@juno.com
Wikipedia is not the place to pass on this information. It is original research and will be deleted. Try a restless leg discussion group. Nbauman (talk) 06:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Bar of soap?

"An effective, though not proven, method for relieving symptoms during sleep is to place a common bar of soap under the sheet at the foot of the bed.[citation needed]"

I really can't even begin to comprehend how this could be considered an effective treatment? Given that there are no citations provided I move that we should remove this statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.212.89.11 (talk) 09:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I have removed it. The reference quoted is for leg cramp anyway, which is an unrelated condition. --Gak 06:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

I personally know of people with restelsss leg syndrome who use a bar of soap. For them it works.How it works I don't know but it does.A doctor of mine once said,"If something works for you,use it."Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't work so it should definitly be included as a treatment because it does work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.105.221.77 (talk) 02:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I have tried the bar of soap solution - I am on dialysis, and this was recommended to me by another patient. It helps, I would say, but is not a cure all for severe RLS. I have no idea why it works, in fact, I came to this article hoping find some explaination.KBrown (talk) 15:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Just a little more I found on this: "Take a bar of IVORY soap, it must be IVORY, not DOVE or anything else. Take the bar from the package, discard the wrapper, place the bar in a sock and place between your sheets. You dont have to touch the soap. This may sound bizarre but there is a strong possibility that the lye in the soap may be acting as a ground for your internal electrical system! May sound crazy but just try it once and get back to me. (Entry tiled: cissy26 replied on May 2nd, 2007 - Restless Leg Syndrome)" http://ehealthforum.com/health/topic2685.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.178.108 (talk) 03:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

This isn't for RLS. My dad was told to use a bar of soap for leg pain. It was some blood or muscle problem, if I remember correctly. He swore by it, admitting it was most likely a placebo, but it wasn't for RLS. 75.46.215.126 (talk) 21:46, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

O.M.G. I can't believe others have tryed the bar of soap thingy ...It absolutely works ..it saved me from going crazy .....i've even gotten to know when the bar of soap fell out of my bed (in a couple of days) as my legs start acting up again ....i have recommended it to several people and they can't beleive it either ....some have it worst so what they do is take a bar that is ready to be thrown out and they put it in there sock in the side for the day ...helps them all day ....IT REALLY REALLY WORKS ...try it you have nothing to lose and no expense either ...i use ivory bar ...:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.193.16.9 (talk) 22:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

External Links

I added an external link to a site that was removed (note: I am affiliated with the site). I believe it is of real value to RLS patients and does not try to sell anything, just a patient participation survey to increase the overall knowledge of RLS and other conditions. Patients can answer questions about RLS, discuss the questions, and even create new questions of their own to explore the topic. I think this link should be added to the External Links section: *[https ://www.traitwise.com/?tags=rls Restless Legs Syndrome on Traitwise.com] Mrs102561 (talk) 22:25, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunatly, traitwise.com is realy no different than linking to a discussion forum, blog, fansite or personal website which makes it a Link normally to be avoided and fails all Wikipedias specific requirements of our External Links policy, Verifiability Policy and Reliable Source guidelines. traitwise.com has no editorial oversight/fact checking (see WP:RS#Self-published_and_questionable_sources) and the content is user created and self-published.
  • Fails Wikipedia's core content policies:
Additionally, Wikipedia is not a place for linking to participation surveys. --Hu12 (talk) 19:10, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Body's PH levels

I don't see anything here related to body's acidic / alkaline ratios. Acidic body condition leads to excess electrons, hyper sensitivity to nueron discharges i.e. RLS. Need more buffering Baking Soda. Just an idea pointing in another direction. altered-states.net/barryupdate178/index.htm189.172.52.199 (talk) 08:38, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Fan on the legs at night worked for me to get sleep

I had RLS and a bunch of places on the net told me to put a fan on my legs at night to get to sleep. It worked! I cover all my body up but my legs and the fan seems to cover up the tingling, crawly sensations which somehow keep you awake. I don't know where to source this though but it works perfectly for me and others to get to sleep. I ate allot of red meat not to well cooked which upped my iron intake and it went away and has been gone for 5 years now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.189.61 (talk) 16:24, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Lucky you. However, this page is for discussing changes to the article. What changes do you propose? Lova Falk talk 18:48, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

From an Expert

Wish That I wasn't but I think having a lifetime of RLS qualifies me as an expert....

I think that the Wikipedia presentation is excellent, despite some of the comments here about the need to withdraw it without further citations.

As a recipient of the genetic curse - my mother and both siblings have it - we only recently found out what it is really called. The family name that has been used for generations is "the budgets" but I have no idea where the nickname originated. Of all the maladies that I have encountered this is the hardest to explain and those who haven't experienced it have no idea what you are describing. For our family we agree that it isn't really pain, but at times worse.

I have recently been learning more about it following consultation and treatment for sleep apnea, though the CPAP for that doesn't really help. My RLS was worse as a teenager and I'm now 68, but it recently returned with a vengeance following back surgery for sciatica. The drug pramipexole controls the RLS well but for me it does have a hangover effect that is uncomfortable. I also found from my sleep doctor that ferritin levels need to be above 50 µg/L. Mine is 26, so I've started some OTC iron pills. Too early to tell if increasing ferritin will reduce or eliminate the RLS.

Anyway, I decided to post here after reading some of the other comments.Lbeck02 (talk) 00:44, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

People with WED/RLS have a difficult time explaining the sensation. Other than the overwhelming compulsion to move one's legs, I have described it to a few doctors as "Like a cold fire, deep inside my leg bones, that flashes outward inj jagged blasts as if it were icy lightning bolts." The symptoms usually follow a circadian rhythm (circa = "about," dian = "a day"), on a 25 hour cycle that sunlight "resets" to 24 hours. Symptoms tend to start around 9:00 PM (adjust to daylight savings time or standard), and grow worse over the next 5 or 6 hours. Around 4:00AM (closer to 3:00AM) the torture decreases enough for the victim to sleep. For a small number of per centum, the symptoms occur all day. Desertphile (talk) 03:22, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Common name

This article should be titled under its common name. I realize a foundation is advocating for one of the other names, but this hasn't caught on yet. Please don't move the article without discussion. Jonathunder (talk) 23:41, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Well let's get the discussion going. I for one believe that the article should follow the official name, regardless of what name is more common. for example Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is more commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease, but the article uses the correct disease name. There is no reason to deviate from that precident. RevDan (talk) 00:18, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Please do not change the text without first getting consensus for an article move. --NeilN talk to me 00:58, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Note that NINDS refers to Lou Gehrig's disease as Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis [2]. It does not however refer to Restless legs syndrome as anything else [3]. Willis-Ekbom in fact redirects to Restless legs. --NeilN talk to me 01:05, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
ALS is known as Lou Gehrig's in the United States, but has other names in other English-speaking countries, which is why the article is where it is. RLS is most commonly known by this name internationally, as far as I can see. As to its "official" name, what is that? There is more than one. Jonathunder (talk) 01:10, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Agree with keeping RLS, because it is the most common name. As far as international use concerns, both in Sweden and in the Netherlands we say "restless legs" (in English). Lova Falk talk 13:21, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

RLS is what it is known by. The world of medicine is moving away from naming conditions after people except for a few exceptions. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 18:45, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Susceptibility to other neurological disorders

Under Prognosis, the article states “Being diagnosed with RLS does not indicate or foreshadow another neurological disease.”

Under Epidemiology, the article also states “Neurologic conditions linked to RLS include Parkinson disease, spinal cerebellar atrophy, spinal stenosis,[specify] lumbosacral radiculopathy and Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease type 2.[ ”

On the face of it these two statements appear to be contradictory. Can anyone clarify? Markcymru (talk) 01:26, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Device to treat Restless Leg Syndrome

There is a new device that has been cleared by the FDA to treat Restless Leg Syndrome. The indications for use are to "improve the quality of sleep in patients with Primary Restless Leg Syndrome (RLS) through the use of vibratory counter-stimulation". The FDA clearance was based on a series of published clinical studies. The current article does not include this new FDA approved treatment modality. I would like to add a section to this article about the option of a device as a treatment protocol and as a first time editor would appreciate any guidance. Is the first step to post the proposed new section here for comments and feedback or should I send a draft to a particular person? As a disclosure, I am the new CEO of the startup company that markets and sells the device. Davidnbaker (talk) 01:05, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey David. Welcome. The first thing we need is a secondary source per WP:MEDRS. As the CEO you are welcome to post that source here but should not edit the article directly due to your WP:COI. Best Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 01:29, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to amend Epidemiology

I would like to include that persons with RLS have significantly higher rates of depression and anxiety disorders than persons of the general population.[1] [2]Hnbuf (talk) 02:20, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Any secondary sources per WP:MEDRS? And would go under signs and symptoms.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:35, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

References:

  1. ^ Cho, S. J., Hong, J. P., Hahm, B.J. et al. (2009). Restless legs syndrome in a community sample of Korean adults; Prevalence, impact on quality of life, and association with DSM-IV psychiatric disorders. Sleep, 32, 1069-1076.
  2. ^ Winkelmann, J., Prager, M., Lieb, R., et al. (2005). "Anxietas Tibiarum" depression and anxiety disorders in patients with restless legs syndrome. Journal of Neurology" 252, 667-71.
Thank you! I will be sure to move the information to signs and symptoms. I am a little confused about the secondary source as both of the sources I listed are from peer-reviewed medical journals? Hnbuf (talk) 02:13, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
Pubmed has a button on the left that will limit your search to reviews. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:22, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Ekbom's Syndrome vs Wittmaack-Ekbom's syndrome

I find the words right at the start of the article "(RLS, or Wittmaack-Ekbom's syndrome, which is not to be confused with Ekbom's syndrome)" confusing. In more cases than not, Ekbom's Syndrome is used to refer to RLS. In this case, diverting readers looking for RLS off to a page on "Delusional parasitosis" will cause a lot of confusion. I suggest that the discussion of these other historic medical names for RLS is removed from this very prominent position. Later, in the history section, this is covered in the sentence "The Restless legs syndrome is also known as the Ekbom syndrome, the Wittmaack-Ekbom syndrome, or anxietas tibialis.". (this is my first contribution to wikipedia, please forgive me if my procedure or etiquette are poor) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.14.238.254 (talk) 18:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing that out. I have edited it to make the relationship clearer, but if you feel it remains confusing, be bold. And welcome to Wikipedia. --Arcadian 03:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
yes, that's an improvement, thanks.--Grippers 00:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

A number of foundations and RLS sources refer to it as Willis-Ekbom Disease. USAFSS60 (talk) 00:43, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

The causes ar clear and well-known!

"No one knows the exact cause of RLS at present."?? WTF? The causes are well known and even denoted in the same section: Extreme concentrates of short chain carbohydrates. Like sugar, white flour, white rice and potato extracts. M. O. Bruker has done studies for over 50 years with more than 30000 (!) patients, and he could prove that many many health problems actually stem from those extreme concentrates of - actually conserves of purified short chain carbohydrates. The problem is that the whole equilibrium of vital substances gets out of kilter.

Were these studies published in peer-reviewed journals? Any citations? Howard C. Berkowitz 14:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that most poeple think that those substances are only contained in those "white" products. But face it: Sweets, soft drinks, non wholemeal bread (no matter what color or how many grains), cake (wich - if made of white flour and/or sugar - always is a conserve), *every* kind of sugar (no matter what color, if saccharose, fructose, maltit, or how ever they call it) that has such a high level of those carbohydrates, and many, many other products... they all contain loads of those carbohydrates. And because poeple won't or can't avoid them, ther can not completely cure themselves. If you can speak german, i woul recommand that you read "Zucken, Zucker" from Dr. med. M. O. Bruker.

Is this a book or a peer-reviewed report? Howard C. Berkowitz 14:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


Actually the causes are not clear, nor are they well known. And they almost certainly have *nothing* to do with white sugar/white flour, much to the flour-sugar haters' dismay. I would refer you to the work being done at Johns Hopkins by Drs. Allen and Earley in two areas: dopamine biochemistry and IV iron therapy. USAFSS60 (talk) 00:57, 26 March 2015 (UTC)


Additionally - to relate it to RLS - you just have to look at the more recent findings that show that high concentrations of bad carbohydrates are the cause by proving that removing them can heal the disease.

But who wants to care? If you look at all those shiny ads for stuff that we don't need, and that we buy just to make some companies richer, because we believe that "dextro energen" actually is healthy, or that mars and kellogg's frosties give us power? Or that wonderbread is actually bread (it is not! it's a conserve of nearly pure sugar) and UHT-milk actually has anything to do with real milk (it has NOT! It's a mix of chemically modified proteines with water!)?

Ok, just decide for youself. But stop eating crap, or stop complaining. You can't have both. Or call it a genetical disease to become sick of a bag of sugar in your venes... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.100.46.221 (talk) 14:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

I'm a whole food person and I still got it. Only eating more rare beef to up my iron got rid of it for me... and fan on my legs while it was active to get sleep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.189.61 (talk) 16:54, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Likewise I'm whole food, no sugar diet, person with a lifetime of trying anything that might help severe RLS. The article is spot on. There are many ways to relieve mild RLS that may work or give temporary relief. Secondary RLS may even be curable. But Primary and severe RLS doesn't stop. I was even in a coma for 8 weeks (85% burns) and my body developed an uncontrollable involuntary spasm like response to meet the need to move like periodic limp movement but my whole body. If there is more info on the differences between primary and secondary RLS it may help as I suspect it is much like primary and secondary diabetes. Finally I don't care if it is labelled a psychiatric disorder. It doesn't make it any less real. Roastpilot

WebMD: Not a reliable source?

User:Alexbrn reverted my recent edit citing WebMD as a source. He called it "unreliable". When I asked whether other content in the article citing WebMD should also be removed, he requested to discuss it here. I'm honoring his request by creating this section. jej1997 (talk) 17:08, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

WebMD is not a WP:MEDRS and should generally not be used, esp. if there are better sources. Alexbrn (talk) 17:12, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay, but I couldn't find any better sources. Should all content citing WebMD in this article be deleted? If not, then why shouldn't my edit be allowed? jej1997 (talk) 17:16, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
We should not worsen things by adding more WebMD. There are loads of reliable sources to use. Alexbrn (talk) 17:25, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
I do not view my edit as worsening the article; quite the contrary, or I wouldn't have made it. Please cite the Wikipedia policy that supports your position keeping the existing WebMD-sourced content, but excluding my edit. jej1997 (talk) 17:27, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
WP:V. Alexbrn (talk) 17:33, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay, so we have to delete all WebMD references then? jej1997 (talk) 17:38, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
They "may" be deleted. Alexbrn (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
By the same token, they (and my addition) "may" be included. My personal preference is to include it, and I don't believe your personal preference is more important than mine. jej1997 (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Arguably, it would be difficult to find a source for this kind of information that meets your lofty standards. Nobody does a research study to discover what the common non-drug treatments for RLS are. They just consult a source like WebMD. For me to try to make my own list, based on research studies about individual methods, would be synthesis. jej1997 (talk) 17:38, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
The link above gives loads of research. Research is not limited to drugs. Alexbrn (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
I could not find any relevant articles with your link. Perhaps you can do so, but meanwhile WebMD is the best source I have, and by your own rule (a citation there would be helpful as well), WebMD can be used in the absence of better sources. jej1997 (talk) 18:27, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
WebMD is an iffy source. Please do not worsen the article for using it for anything non-trivial. My link linked to loads of scholarly articles on RLS. Such sources should form the basis of our work. Alexbrn (talk) 18:29, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
From WP:MEDRS: "Peer-reviewed medical information resources such as WebMD, UpToDate, and eMedicine are usually acceptable sources for uncontroversial information; however, as much as possible Wikipedia articles should cite the more established literature directly." Based on this, the fact that my edit does not include controversial information, and my inability to find a relevant citation in the more established literature; and until/unless I hear a new objection from you or someone else, intend to include the WebMD-sourced content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jej1997 (talk • contribs) 18:37, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
The fact there appears to be no decent source for this makes it questionable. We are supposed to be reflecting accepted knowledge. Please do not try to force your edit. Alexbrn (talk) 18:42, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Again, the idea that a peer-reviewed article by a medical doctor published at WebMD is not "decent" is your own personal preference, not Wikipedia policy. Please do not try to force your revert of my edit. In the absence of an opposing consensus, my position is supported by Wikipedia policy, not yours. jej1997 (talk) 18:50, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
If you are so desperate to insert this stuff (you have tried three times now) find a decent source. WebMD will not do. Feel free to ask at WT:MED if in doubt. Alexbrn (talk)
If you are so desperate to remove it (you have tried three times now), cite Wikipedia policy that WebMD is not "a decent source". I have cited WP:MEDRS. If you believe that article should be modified, maybe you should go ask at WT:MED. It is incumbent upon you to do so; for me, it is sufficient to follow established Wikipedia policy. jej1997 (talk) 19:00, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

In fairness, I want to bring up another aspect of this particular edit that may be an argument to remove it. My edit adds "orgasm" in the list of non-drug treatments for RLS, based on a WebMD link that recommends it. That "WebMD Expert Column" recommends it based on research showing that orgasm releases dopamine, "which can ease RLS symptoms". It also cites a case study in Sleep Medicine where it helped for one particular patient. It doesn't cite any more extensive research showing that it worked in a certain percentage of cases; I suspect because there actually isn't much, if any such research (yet). It then ends with "There’s not a lot of literature supporting this approach, but it’s certainly worth a try.". So this may actually be a case where this doctor is stating her own recommendation, based on her expert analysis, but without direct, extensive research of the particular question. My question is, is this recommendation (from a normally acceptable source) a good enough source for the statement that orgasm is a non-drug treatment for RLS? jej1997 (talk) 19:56, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

WebMD is basically popular press. Not really WP:MEDRS. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:18, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Which of you is going to take it upon yourselves to modify the WP:MEDRS page, where it says: "Peer-reviewed medical information resources such as WebMD, UpToDate, and eMedicine are usually acceptable sources for uncontroversial information; however, as much as possible Wikipedia articles should cite the more established literature directly." Because as of this moment, you are in clear opposition to current policy. jej1997 (talk) 22:37, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Also, WebMD is not "basically popular press". If the popular press were written by MDs and peer reviewed, then "popular press" wouldn't be such a slur. jej1997 (talk) 22:44, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, and the stuff the OP is pushing is a piece written by one psychologist based on a case report. If we lower the bar to allow sourcing like this we'd be exposed to a tidal wave of crap. Alexbrn (talk) 10:26, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
It is not necessary for you to lie to win this argument. It's not "based on a case report." It's based on that, plus more extensive research showing (uncontroversially) that orgasm releases dopamine, and the knowledge that RLS is related to dopamine reception in the brain, and relieved by opiods. I had not realized she wasn't an MD, though. To me, that is a legitimate reason not to cite her in this article. All this crap about WebMD being "unreliable" was a red herring, though. jej1997 (talk) 22:51, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

masturbation providing relief

don't ask me how i CAME across this, but before i did i was indeed wondering if it actually worked. http://www.inquisitr.com/102688/masturbation-found-to-help-restless-leg-syndrome/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.191.13.84 (talk) 22:46, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

yes it does by me — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.109.82.248 (talk) 16:13, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I likewise noticed my RLS went away after masturbation, and went looking for corroboration in publication. There are a bunch of web sites referencing the 2011 n=1 study, so I picked one and added a reference to it under "physical measures". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.91.214 (talk) 21:33, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Format of article

I found this article to be written in a very informal style and also to be very lacking in citations. While there were plenty of external links given, the vast majority of the "facts" presented were lacking in a specific citation to support them. Could someone with considerable knowledge in the area (possibly the person who originally wrote the article) please provide adequate citations and edit the article with a more formal register. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.188.252.168 (talk) 07:35, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Minor Breakthrough: Genes for RLS identified

Check out this brand new international study, published in the renowned Nature Genetics, to update the WP article: http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v39/n8/abs/ng0807-938.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.178.127.253 (talk) 20:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Improper naming

As someone who has experienced both what is known today as akathisia and RLS, i can tell you that they are, in essence, the same thing. Both are caused by dopaminergic defficiency, both cause inability to stay still and offer short relief by moving. The differences are that akathisia manifests psychologically (through anxiety), mostly during daytime, and RLS manifests physically (through muscular discomfort), mostly during sleep time. Also, using the term "legs" can be misleading, as the sensation can be felt through the biceps or other muscles. It should be properly included in the akathisia class, differentiated by symptom nature (physical/muscular vs. psychological/anxious). Just one's thought.

P.S. In my experience the nasty feeling is very similar to the sensation of rubbing the tip of your penis after having an orgasm, or that short discomfort you get in your arm when it wakes up from numbness, after you've slept all night on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KeopsDG (talk • contribs) 05:32, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

@KeopsDG: Wikipedia relies on peer-reviewed expert medical sources, rather than the personal experiences of editors. The article does mention that arms can be involved and that akathisia is a similar but different condition, which is what the medical sources say. -- Beland (talk) 16:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Title of the article

Should the name of the article be changed to Willis-Ekbom Disease and change the current name to a redirect or should it just be kept the same? I feel like the modern name not being the title is quite silly, but that's just me. Washy (talk) 13:11, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

no, because (as the article says) at least one of these names is attached to a different condition, & the foundation itself recognised the likelihood of confusion, & changed its name back to RLS.
Indeed, but they can be grouped under the dopamine-regulation-related conditions, as you have too much dopamine in one of them, and not enough in the other! 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:8005:3B14:C6E:1AFB (talk) 13:39, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
I'd far rather, generally, that conditions such as this all had descriptive names; the amount of back-slapping that goes on in the scientific fraternity is out of proportion with the state-of-the-art vis a vis remedies. >goes to shops, buys bars of soap<
duncanrmi. 139.47.67.48 (talk) 15:36, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
perhaps, but on the plus side, as we learn more of a condition and its causes, we often adjust what does and does not belong under its heading, and if it is just some names only trained clinicians recognise, such adjustments can be made without causing any fuss or confusion, whereas a common name might slowly become a misnomer. 2A01:CB0C:CD:D800:8005:3B14:C6E:1AFB (talk) 13:42, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
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